Dick, Vonnegut, Lem
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Topic: Dick, Vonnegut, Lem
Posted By: Logan
Subject: Dick, Vonnegut, Lem
Date Posted: March 16 2016 at 17:27
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Three writers that I have always closely associated, and fans of one are often fans of all. Who do you like best? And mention any favourite works by them if you want to. More importantly, since polls I commonly merely use an an accessory to discussion and exploration, which other authors (and specific works) would you recommend to someone who is into these three? I like Chekhov, and am looking to get Jorge Luis Borges stories. Some other favourite classic novels of mine is the sci-fi or speculative fiction realm include Stranger in a Strange Land (plus more Heinlein), The Martian Chronicles, The Island of Doctor Moreau, 1984 duh, The Lathe of Heaven, a Canticle for Leibowitz, and The Gods Themselves. I think if I had to choose just two stories of each: Dick: Dr. Bloodmoney and Ubik. Vonnegut: Sirens of Titan or Slaughterhouse Five Lem: Fiasco or The Futurological Congress |
Replies:
Posted By: InstrupsychedeMental
Date Posted: March 16 2016 at 19:49
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For me, Stanislaw Lem. Majorly thought-provoking philosophy in his sci-fi. A couple of years ago I heard an audiobook of Solaris--way better than either movie--and since then I was hooked. A number of his works have finally been translated into English, just over the past few years. Should add others I've read/heard: Fiasco Memoirs Found in a Bathtub Mortal Engines Peace on Earth--also vg Return From the Stars--not his best, imo The Star Diaries |
Posted By: TeleStrat
Date Posted: March 16 2016 at 20:52
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I read a lot of early Vonnegut back in the day. Some favorites... Breakfast Of Champions Slaughterhouse Five Mother Night Galapagos Slapstick
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Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: March 16 2016 at 21:22
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I love Lem in an erotic way. |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: March 16 2016 at 21:22
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I like all 3....I suppose P K Dick would be my favorite but that's because I was lucky enough to receive a letter from him once when I was looking for a copy of Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep which became Blade Runner for the film. I wrote his publisher who then referred the letter to him and he was gracious in sending me a letter saying it would be released soon as Blade Runner. I still can't believe he actually wrote me a personal explanation about the renamed story. Favorites: Dick- Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch Ubik Maze of Death Martian Time Slip but all of his books are wonderfully weird.... Lem- The Investigation Memoirs Found In A Bathtub Solaris Chain of Chance Vonnegut- Sirens of Titan Slaughterhouse 5 Cats Cradle The Lathe of Heaven and The Gods Themselves are two of my favorite sci-fi novels . ( Ihave also read all of the ones you mentioned) btw...there was a tv mini series done on the Lathe of Heaven that was pretty good.
------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: March 16 2016 at 21:50
| Great to see admirers of all three authors posting here. Thanks. I love The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldtritch, great choice (A particular fave of mine that I quite forgot about). Haven't read Maze of Death as local libraries (and I've lived in quite a few places) and bookstores I've checked haven't carried it. I'm in serious need of a Dick fix -- guess I'll order online. Been years since I've ready any new books of his. With Vonnegut, I have more reading to do to, of ones mentioned I haven't read Mother Night that I recall or Galapagos. And with Lem I have lots to catch up on. Love the Investigation and Solaris, and have long wanted to read Memoirs Found in a Bathtub. |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: March 17 2016 at 08:53
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I've read all of the Lem and Vonnegut that appeals to me but there are still a few Dick books I haven't read....I might look those up and read them....he was very prolific for many years. Too many good books and too little time to read them all. btw if you like hard hitting supernatural fiction with a twist I recommend the Sandman Slim series by Kadrey...great fun to read and well written also. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: March 17 2016 at 11:43
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Lem by a country mile. since many of his works (some of his best) have not been translated into English yet I am not surprised he does not win. it's a tossup for second between Vonnegut and Dick for me -------------  A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: March 17 2016 at 12:52
Just curious...but do you read Lem in Polish or German..? ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
BaldJean wrote:Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: March 17 2016 at 12:54
Read some little book reviews of the series, and I'm confident it's something I'd really like. Going to see if he can find some of his books to read this weekend (there actually is a great public library where I grew up, and going to go there on Saturday -- library closest to where I now live is terrible unless perhaps you are Punjabi). |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: March 17 2016 at 12:59
German. but due to the GDR having been a befriended state of Poland a plethora of his works have been translated into that language ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: March 17 2016 at 13:14
I would have thought that almost all of his fiction would have been translated into English, but not so much with his non-fiction works. By the way, since translation is being discussed, Lem thought Dick a visionary and translated works of Dick's into Polish. Lem wrote an essay on Dick called "Philip K. Dick: A Visionary Amongst Charlatans". Lem was made an honorary member of The Science Fiction Writers of America and wasn't too popular since he denigrated US sci-fi writers, except Dick who he highly admired. Mentioned it in a another thread, but while Lem admired Dick, paranoid Dick wrote a letter to the FBI claiming Lem was "a communist committee". Yes, Dick, wasn't just claiming he was part of a communist committee, he claimed that Lem was a committee -- a committee acting under the name Stanislaw Lem. Apparently Dick may have been upset about not getting royalties from a Polish edition Of Ubik that Lem had translated and he was upset about Lem's denigration of American author's, since he mentioned that to the FBI. Dick may not have noticed that Lem denigrated others but praised Dick's writings. http://culture.pl/en/article/philip-k-dick-stanislaw-lem-is-a-communist-committee" rel="nofollow - http://culture.pl/en/article/philip-k-dick-stanislaw-lem-is-a-communist-committee |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: March 17 2016 at 13:57
"The Astronauts", "The Magellanic Cloud" and "Observation on the Spot" (in my opinion his best novel) have not been translated into English yet. "Summa Technologiae", a non-fiction work, is absolutely stunning. Lem predicted many of today's technological advances decades ahead in that book. I like the title a lot too; clever pun with Thomas Aquinas. even though I voted for Lem I like Dick and Vonnegut too, so perhaps I should have put my vote into "I like all three". but I consider Lem to be the best of those three ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Son.of.Tiresias
Date Posted: March 17 2016 at 14:05
Stanislaw Lem is the man. "Solaris" is the best Sci-Fi ever written, and the Andrei Tarkovsky film equals Stanley Kubrickīs 2001, quite differently though. I really like Russian language, although Polish as the original language could have been a more appropriate ? Does "Solaris"īs expression and content perhaps suffer when translated into English ?
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Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: March 17 2016 at 14:11
Vonnegut for me. I love all his early stuff but reread Breakfast of Champions every few years to remind me of how completely absurd living in America really is  ------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: March 17 2016 at 14:12
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oh, and since you wanted a recommendation: Karel Čapek "Krakatit", "R.U.R." and "War with the Newts" are must-reads. the word "robot" stems from "R.U.R.". Čapek is extremely satirical, and his inclusion of an illustration of the "homo diluvii testis", also known as "Andrias Scheuchzeri", a giant prehistorical newt believed to be a human witness of the deluge by Johann Jacob Scheuchzer, a Swiss scholar of the early 18th century, is a stroke of genius ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: March 17 2016 at 14:14
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^ Best sci-fi ever written. ..? Again that becomes hyperbole like saying a certain prog album is the best ever recorded. It's subjective as any other work of art. Heinlein, Asimov. Zelazny, Simak, Clarke, Dick, Herbert, Banks, ..the list is endless...etc , are all geniuses when it comes to sci-fi...just like Lem was. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: March 17 2016 at 14:15
I find it appalling in a way that such works of his have not been translated into English. He was a great writer and thinker. Incidentally, I'm quite scatterbrained, I had had it mind to write "No preference, I like all three equally" so I'm glad you voted for your favourite. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: March 17 2016 at 14:26
Tarkovsky's Solaris and Kubrick's 2001 definitely have considerable similarities. I love both. Lem disliked Tarkovsky's adaptation, but that's common with writer's when others adapt their works. Lem said that Tarkovsky didn't make Solaris at all, he made Crime and Punishment. Personally, I prefer Tarkovsky's Stalker to Solaris, but so what.... |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: March 17 2016 at 14:37
Thank you, I haven't read those. Sounds like must reads. By the way, I have received so many great suggestions at this site that I really need to start a journal to keep track of it all. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: March 17 2016 at 14:52
Haha. I love that novel too; great and weird satirizing of a weird and not so great culture. Love Kilgore Trout. Expect Tom Robbins and John Irving were quite influenced by it. |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: March 17 2016 at 15:18
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I love Dick. ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: March 18 2016 at 02:06
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Lem did not see himself as an SF-author, by the way. He criticized the genre vehemently in "Fantasy and Futurology", one of Lem's philosophical works. It is a two volume edition of literary criticism of SF-literature. He exempted Dick though. -------------  BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: March 18 2016 at 04:18
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My favourites from these authors (of Lem I mention only SF) Lem: Memoirs Found in a Bathtub The Futurological Congress Peace on Earth Observation on the Spot Fiasco Eden Fiasco Dick: The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch Ubik A Scanner Darkly Valis The Divine Invasion The Transmigration of Timothy Archer Vonnegut: Cat's Cradle Slaughterhouse Five Galapagos Player Piano Recommendations: "Sewer, Gas and Electric" by Matt Ruff. A brilliant satire settled in 2023, featuring electronic reincarnations of Ayn Rand and Abbie Hoffman, a 183-year old female veteran of the civil war, eco-terrorists and a giant white shark named "Meisterbräu" who lives in the sewers are just some of the weird characters in this extremely satirical SF-novel. I generally recommend Ruff; he has a great way of "Die andere Seite" ("The Other Side") by Alfred Kubin. Best known as graphic artist and illustrator, his only novel is a kind of retrograde SF. It has many elements of horror as well, but I see it as a dystopian novel. The main protagonist and his wife are invited to a "dream empire" by his old school friend Claus Patera, who acquired incredible wealth and created said empire. All things modern (the novel was published in 1908) are banned from this empire, and the people there live in a kind of dream state. But the dream soon turns into a nightmare, especially when Hercules Bell, an American of similar wealth as Patera, arrives. The novel is kind of a cross between Gustav Meyrink and Franz Kafka. ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: March 18 2016 at 10:11
I agree. Read Tom Robbins "Skinny Legs and All" many years ago and it definitely reminded me of Vonnegut. Speaking of Kurt, how could I not post my favorite bit of wisdom from his greatest creation, science fiction writer extraordinaire Kilgore Trout. "1492. The teachers told children that this was when their continent was discovered by human beings. Actually, millions of human beings were already living full and imaginative lives on the continent in 1492. That was simply the year in which sea pirates began to cheat and rob and kill them." - Kilgore Trout ------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Posted By: Son.of.Tiresias
Date Posted: March 23 2016 at 03:00
Yes I know Lem didnīt like Starkovskyīs film. He didnīt like "Star Trek" either (grin). Donīt get me wrong, I do like the original series very much. I like both 2001 and "Solaris" as much really, the Tarkovsky "Solaris" film is kinda antithesis to action Sci-Fi, so to speak. Personally, nothing surpasses "Solaris", both in literature and film. "Stalker" film is THE antithesis to all action Sci-Fi, lol. Thantīs why I like it so much. It has nothing on the original novel by the Strugatski Bros. though. Their "Difficult to Be a God" from 1964 is a great novel as well, btw. ------------- You may see a smile on Tony Banksī face but thatīs unlikely. |
Posted By: Guy Guden
Date Posted: March 23 2016 at 17:42
extremely cool, doctor wu. extremely cool.  being in communication with, or hanging amongst writers one admires is pure Bliss. your list also shows the admirable taste of the Celestial mind.  it would appear we are the two who voted three. cheers!
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Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: March 24 2016 at 09:55
I've read all 3 authors but a bigger fan of PK than the others though there are a couple of books by Lem that I really like. There's one called 'The Investigation' by Lem that is a study of an investigation into some missing corpses that has a central paranormal theme but the true answer is never resolved....I've read it several times and I'll probably read it again. It resonates with me for some reason. The letter from PK was a happy accident.....but it was nice receiving it. I have read most of his novels...but there are a couple and some short stories I still haven't read. I'm saving those since there won't be anymore. The last few years been reading a lot of supernatural action fiction.....Repairman Jack series, Nightside series by Green , Secret Histories series by Green, Harry Dresden series by Butcher, and the Sandman Slim series by Kadrey. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Guy Guden
Date Posted: March 24 2016 at 20:29
good to know, Doctor Wu. I felt the answer should include all 3 writers. "All the books..." as Cyril Cusack says to Oskar Werner in FAHRENHEIT 451. Like you, I prefer PKD. I certainly have more titles by him in my library, Vonnegut the second most in quantity and Lem the smallest. Continued good searching in speculative fiction. As I believe I mentioned earlier, I had been reading a lot of Huxley, Orwell and Bradbury. My enthusiasm for authors of all time periods remains undiminished. the 60th Anniversary edition of Bradbury's FAHRENHEIT 451 was quite enjoyable; much supplemental material. My mood swings may lead me to rereads and rediscoveries like John Wyndham, A.E. Van Vogt, and others of the '50s period with a philosophical mindset, satire and irony mixed with the fear and loathing. A J.G. Ballard phase is creeping in perhaps. Re-ordered Cronenberg's CRASH and am looking forward to the HIGHRISE film. I thought THE END OF THE TOUR was a wonderful film about DAVID FOSTER WALLACE and INHERENT VICE stoked the Pynchon acquaintance. Jules Verne is knocking at the door as well. A pleasure to talk books along with the music. They are hand in hand in my reality. Thank you and Best to you.
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Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: March 24 2016 at 22:56
I have of course read Asimov, Bradbury, Huxley, Herbert, Verne, Orwell, AEVan Vogt, Zelazny, Simak, Niven, Heinlein, Clarke, and many others many years ago....did a Ballard course of reading in the 80's. I spent many years exploring all the great sci-fi authors. I tried Infinite Jest but couldn't get through it...will try it again one day. I read Crying Of Lot 49, V, and Gravity's Rainbow many years ago ....need to pick up another Pynchon one day; any recommendations ? Haven't read a 'deep' book for some time now and I seem to be in a supernatural fiction mode the last few years. It can be hard to find that special book to read. I like strange but thought provoking books that have a sci-fi or paranormal edge to them but are well written.....any suggestions for newer authors since I have read all the old timers? btw if you like well written literate space opera I recommend Iaan Banks 'Culture Series'. It's similar to Asimov's Foundation series but imho more interesting. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Guy Guden
Date Posted: March 25 2016 at 04:00
I bought Pynchon's latest BLEEDING EDGE right when it came out. It put me through a rollercoaster of emotions not unlike dating someone who is very attractive, but glaringly wrong for you. When he got serious the book was brilliant; like he was telling us what was really out there and scared him. Then he would dilute it with comedy of the lowest par, stuff I or the Firesign Theatre would have rejected as puerile. It seemed like he got scared being "too deep." I won't lie and pretend I've read everything Pynchon has done. My last Pynchon I added to the library was MASON & DIXON, which really did feel like a Firesign Theatre album. Pynchon was in California when David Ossman of the Firesign Theatre did his thing and I did SPACE PIRATE RADIO in Santa Barbara. Paths have been crossed and as MAD MAGAZINE said, "Small minds run in the same gutter." I've never read GRAVITY'S RAINBOW or VINELAND. The only new cat I'm considering reading is Bruce Wagner with his contempt for the Industry of Hollywood, which I share. Not traditional sci-fi, but then again? And he makes me want to read Saul Bellow. It's like bathing in Coen Brothers atmosphere. My age pulls me to nostalgia, but new sci-fi, especially in graphic novels of the Vertigo school appeal. I'm torn between Dostoevsky and Charles Beaumont; Hesse and Rod Serling... A pleasure, Doctor Wu. Good reading to you |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: March 25 2016 at 16:23
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^Thanks for the ideas.....I have read several Vertigo series over the years .I'll see what's at the local comic shop...........btw what was Space Pirate Radio in Santa Barbara...? ps: Have you ever read a comic series called The Invisibles by Grant Morrison? ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Guy Guden
Date Posted: March 25 2016 at 18:02
Indeed, I have. The entire series is bagged and boarded in the archives, a scant distance as we speak. SPACE PIRATE RADIO was my (humbly) (for better or worse) life's contribution to this environment we now romp & frolic. There's lengthy discussion by some on this board, which ultimately forced me out of my reclusive, yet Hermetic lifestyle, to set the record straight (an ongoing process). If interested, as the learned person I've grown to respect here, might I suggest a visit to The Melting Watchtowre, the diary and repository of all things SPACE PIRATE RADIO and my multiple enthusiasms, serious and satiric and surreal. guyguden.blogspot.com is the portal, I believe. I recommend earlier year entries for detailed insights into the show itself, which, for the record, introduced eccentric, eclectic and electronic import music to U.S. ears on commercial FM Freeform radio. 1973-1974. All mixed with my peculiar art and philosophy. ecstatic interference. *the cosmic giggle* sacre et profane.  there is also twit air account under Guy Guden. (and the Green Neon Motel). please forgive my blustering and appearing gripped in an elderly arrogance. I am SO VERY proud of my offspring. And I'm happy to say, the twins are coming home for the holidays. With much respect, I thank you and wish you the best.
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