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Why do you own a gun?

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Topic: Why do you own a gun?
Posted By: infocat
Subject: Why do you own a gun?
Date Posted: June 17 2016 at 22:44
If you own a gun (or guns), please let us know why.

I do not own a gun.  When I was growing up we had a couple of rifles for target practice (shooting cans and whatnot).



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--
Frank Swarbrick
Belief is not Truth.



Replies:
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: June 17 2016 at 23:21
Who TF would own one (or more) of those things ??
And I doubt anyone would be confessing on an open site like this. Guns do not bring any good to this world.......and the (majority) of unstable individuals handling them.


Posted By: KingCrInuYasha
Date Posted: June 18 2016 at 00:22
Some of my older friends own one, but only for protection.

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He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball!


Posted By: infocat
Date Posted: June 18 2016 at 01:55
Some members have already "confessed" in the "American Politics" thread.  So I thought it would be interesting to know their reasons.


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--
Frank Swarbrick
Belief is not Truth.


Posted By: TeleStrat
Date Posted: June 18 2016 at 03:10
I own firearms and I'm not "confessing" to anything. Simply by using that word you are insinuating that gun owners should be ashamed or embarrassed about their guns and I assure you that nothing could be farther from the truth.
I am qualified with and experienced with firearms and I own them because I have a right to and I just plain effing want to.

I have edited my original post because it is ridiculous to get upset about an insinuating comment.
My first firearm purchase was a 9mm semi-automatic pistol with two magazines and it was actually my wife's idea. We had three children and she was specifically concerned about home invasion. She was comfortable with me having a handgun because she knew I served in the Army and had trained with and had experience with firearms.
I started going to the shooting range to practice and familiarize myself with the new gun. I enjoyed target shooting and eventually bought a few standard six shot revolvers because they were more accurate and that's what target shooting is all about.
A friend was upgrading to a better reloading press and gave me his old set up and I started reloading because it was cheaper than buying ammo at the gun shop. I started experimenting with different powders and bullet types to increase the accuracy and manage the recoil.
So target shooting for accuracy became a hobby instead of just a way to keep in practice and I thoroughly enjoyed it.
I taught all three of my children to shoot when they were young teenagers and my daughter enjoyed it as much as my two boys did.
I own twenty-one firearms (and that's not a confession). They are mostly standard revolvers but I have a few rifles and one shotgun. They are securely stored in a large gun safe that actually exceeds the state and federal requirements regarding gun safety.
I'm very serious about my firearms and strongly support legitimate gun control.


Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: June 18 2016 at 03:52
I don't currently own one because I live in a rental apartment. There's barely enough room to swing a sword in here.


Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: June 18 2016 at 04:21
Originally posted by TeleStrat TeleStrat wrote:

I own firearms and I'm not "confessing" to anything. Simply by using that word you are insinuating that gun owners should be ashamed or embarrassed about their guns and I assure you that nothing could be farther from the truth.
I am qualified with and experienced with firearms and I own them because I have a right to and I just plain effing want to.
Furthermore, I really could not care less about anyone's opinion of me or my guns.
Settle.......


Posted By: TeleStrat
Date Posted: June 18 2016 at 04:40
^  Please read my edited post 


Posted By: The T
Date Posted: June 18 2016 at 09:53
I own a handgun. A pistol. It was actually a gift from my mother's husband. It was his old gun. I learned to shoot with it. The reason? Well I actually think you should be able to have a gun at home. I come from a country where getting a gun legally is nigh impossible and I always considered that an affront to the damn freedom of a person to have a tool for protection at home. Especially consider how atrocious the police there were (are). 




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Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: June 18 2016 at 10:05
Originally posted by Vompatti Vompatti wrote:

I don't currently own one because I live in a rental apartment. There's barely enough room to swing a sword in here.
what are the laws of gun ownership in Finland q.m

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Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: June 18 2016 at 10:06
I do not own a gun. I have some high quality kitchen knives which I keep razor sharp.


Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: June 18 2016 at 10:13
I don't own any guns, have no desire to. I have ZERO issues with owning guns or anyone who does. My son just started an interest with shooting for pleasure, target shooting at a range. My daughter who is 29 has carried a hand gun for protection for the past 5-6 yrs, her and her husband also enjoy range shooting.

I have hunted before so have used shotguns, but my play money is used for buying vinyl and audio gear, that's my hobby.

 


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Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: June 18 2016 at 10:14
Originally posted by TeleStrat TeleStrat wrote:

I own firearms and I'm not "confessing" to anything. Simply by using that word you are insinuating that gun owners should be ashamed or embarrassed about their guns and I assure you that nothing could be farther from the truth.
I am qualified with and experienced with firearms and I own them because I have a right to and I just plain effing want to.

I have edited my original post because it is ridiculous to get upset about an insinuating comment.
My first firearm purchase was a 9mm semi-automatic pistol with two magazines and it was actually my wife's idea. We had three children and she was specifically concerned about home invasion. She was comfortable with me having a handgun because she knew I served in the Army and had trained with and had experience with firearms.
I started going to the shooting range to practice and familiarize myself with the new gun. I enjoyed target shooting and eventually bought a few standard six shot revolvers because they were more accurate and that's what target shooting is all about.
A friend was upgrading to a better reloading press and gave me his old set up and I started reloading because it was cheaper than buying ammo at the gun shop. I started experimenting with different powders and bullet types to increase the accuracy and manage the recoil.
So target shooting for accuracy became a hobby instead of just a way to keep in practice and I thoroughly enjoyed it.
I taught all three of my children to shoot when they were young teenagers and my daughter enjoyed it as much as my two boys did.
I own twenty-one firearms (and that's not a confession). They are mostly standard revolvers but I have a few rifles and one shotgun. They are securely stored in a large gun safe that actually exceeds the state and federal requirements regarding gun safety.
I'm very serious about my firearms and strongly support legitimate gun control.

Thumbs Up Clap


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Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: June 18 2016 at 10:41
Originally posted by Icarium Icarium wrote:

Originally posted by Vompatti Vompatti wrote:

I don't currently own one because I live in a rental apartment. There's barely enough room to swing a sword in here.
what are the laws of gun ownership in Finland q.m
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Finland#Licensing" rel="nofollow - like this k

Basically you need to convince them that you're going to use the gun for hunting or sports or some other accepted purpose and that you're relatively sane.



Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: June 18 2016 at 12:36
I own a shotgun. To hunt. And then eat what I kill. I suppose it might also come in handy if there is an intruder breaking into my house. But I won't eat them after I've blown their heads off. Humans are too full of preservatives.

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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...


Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: June 18 2016 at 12:54
To outgun my neighbour.

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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams


Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: June 18 2016 at 13:29
I have a replica of an 18th century pistol, and have collected swords and daggers. The swords and daggers are not for defence, I just find them beautiful and have liked to practice with blunt swords.

I used to have an air rifle as I would practice shooting with that a lot, and enjoyed target practice while in the naval reserve. An acquaintance of mine from high school was shot and killed by the police in his sister's home when he heard a commotion, shouting and screaming, in the house and ran inside with his pellet gun which he had been using for target practice. They came because they suspected pot use, and did find some roaches.

If I lived an a farm or in the wilderness I would definitely want a rifle or shotgun. I have a friend who hunts and eats what he kills, and I'm very cool with that (mostly vegetarian myself, but I never say no to his meat).

Despite our more stringent laws on firearms, gun violence is on the rise here (not from people with permits usually). A lot of guns do find their way over the border.

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Just a fanboy passin' through.


Posted By: TeleStrat
Date Posted: June 18 2016 at 13:59
^  There are a couple of Italian companies that make excellent replicas of black powder pistols. I own a few of them and they are a lot of fun to shot but reloading is slow and messy. They also have to be cleaned thoroughly after shooting because black powder is a lot more corrosive than modern smokeless powder.
They are interesting guns and look good when displayed.


Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: June 18 2016 at 14:01
I own them because my father gave them to me.


Posted By: TeleStrat
Date Posted: June 18 2016 at 14:08


Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: June 18 2016 at 14:23
Originally posted by TeleStrat TeleStrat wrote:




Beautiful.

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Just a fanboy passin' through.


Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: June 18 2016 at 14:59
Originally posted by TeleStrat TeleStrat wrote:


Sorry, but I prefer seeing pics of the great music you listen to........but pay me no mind, I do not like guns.......didn't mean to sound judgemental..........


Posted By: TeleStrat
Date Posted: June 18 2016 at 15:05
^  That is not a problem at all and I fully respect your opinions. Guns are not for everyone.


Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: June 18 2016 at 15:33
Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

Originally posted by TeleStrat TeleStrat wrote:


Sorry, but I prefer seeing pics of the great music you listen to........but pay me no mind, I do not like guns.......didn't mean to sound judgemental..........


No problem:



Oh wait, you said great music, my bad.

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Just a fanboy passin' through.


Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: June 18 2016 at 16:53
Why should I own one?



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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: June 18 2016 at 16:58
Originally posted by Barbu Barbu wrote:

Why should I own one?


Migrating polar bears.

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Just a fanboy passin' through.


Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: June 18 2016 at 17:02
Haha

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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: June 18 2016 at 17:06
It's really no more ridiculous than the reasons some say that firearms should be easily available.

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Just a fanboy passin' through.


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: June 18 2016 at 17:41
Migrating polar bears are about the only reason I'd own one, and as an animal lover, I would run away and let the bear ransack my kitchen before even thinking of shooting such a beautiful creature.



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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: June 18 2016 at 18:03
I would too, and am also an animal lover, but if it cornered my children I might shoot (not without due warning, like shouting "Hey big boy, over here!").   I don't enough know if I could even shoot a rampaging zombie koala bear, zombie sloth, or zombie teddy bear. The creature from Alien, maybe, if it overstayed its welcome.... I would like to have bear spray handy and box bangers handy if in in bear country, and when on some long hikes. The only potentially dangerous wildlife we get near my house are cougars and squirrels.

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Just a fanboy passin' through.


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: June 18 2016 at 18:05
Must be some big-ass squirrels. 


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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: June 18 2016 at 18:08
Not so much big-ass as big nuts....

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Just a fanboy passin' through.


Posted By: TeleStrat
Date Posted: June 18 2016 at 18:14
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Migrating polar bears are about the only reason I'd own one, and as an animal lover, I would run away and let the bear ransack my kitchen before even thinking of shooting such a beautiful creature.

Man or animal, shooting should always be a last resort.


Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: June 18 2016 at 18:38
Polar bears only attack you when they're hungry, but people can attack you for any reason.


Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: June 18 2016 at 18:51
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Migrating polar bears are about the only reason I'd own one, and as an animal lover, I would run away and let the bear ransack my kitchen before even thinking of shooting such a beautiful creature.


A gun big enough to kill a polar bear would probably break my wrist if i tried to shoot it.


Posted By: darksinger
Date Posted: June 18 2016 at 22:43
none of your business

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Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: June 18 2016 at 22:47
Originally posted by darksinger darksinger wrote:

none of your business

Yes, he'll have to shoot you if he tells you.


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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...


Posted By: darksinger
Date Posted: June 18 2016 at 23:01
I did not say that. why are you calling me violent?



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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: June 18 2016 at 23:20
Come on, The Dark Elf's response was funny.

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Just a fanboy passin' through.


Posted By: darksinger
Date Posted: June 18 2016 at 23:32
no it wasn't

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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: June 18 2016 at 23:35
Well, I found it funny. Perhaps you could do a poll on it to see what the general consensus is.

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Just a fanboy passin' through.


Posted By: darksinger
Date Posted: June 18 2016 at 23:43
not going to amuse the cool table here with a poll

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Posted By: *frinspar*
Date Posted: June 18 2016 at 23:47
Why do I owe anyone an answer?

Originally posted by Vompatti Vompatti wrote:

I don't currently own one because I live in a rental apartment. There's barely enough room to swing a sword in here.


This is an awesome alternative answer. :D


Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: June 18 2016 at 23:50
My ex-stepdad owns two Berettas, a double-barreled shotgun, and something else. I don't know if he owns those things for protection as well, but he certainly takes them out for practice. 


Posted By: *frinspar*
Date Posted: June 18 2016 at 23:58
I choose not to use targets with even a vague human outline on them when I go to the range.

My wife and I enjoy perfecting our online gaming skills in real-time.

Does that help?


Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: June 19 2016 at 01:46
To shoot things, of course.

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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.


Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: June 19 2016 at 05:27
Very few folks own guns here in the UK. Not sure exactly what the law says on gun ownership, apart from that you can't own military grade assault weapons. Members of shooting clubs can own guns which I believe have to be locked away on the club premises.

In the debate regarding rights vs need, there appears to be no real need to own guns here...on account of the fact that our criminal fraternity find it harder to get hold of guns than they presumably do in the US and the public arent walking around with weapons at their side, so it's a relatively safe culture. I think the last 'mass shooting' we had was carried out by a man called Raoul Moat in Northumberland about 6 years ago. He was armed with a shotgun. Can't remember how many he killed, but clearly he would have killed more had be stalking the countryside with an automatic or semi auto assualt weapon.

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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!


Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: June 19 2016 at 05:50
Here in the Netherlands one needs a license to have a gun. I have none and I hope I'll ever need it. Even if I should live in the wild west, I would not want such a thing in my house.

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Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: June 19 2016 at 09:31
Originally posted by darksinger darksinger wrote:

not going to amuse the cool table here with a poll

A laxative might help with that constipation you're experiencing.


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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...


Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: June 19 2016 at 10:19
^the set up


Posted By: The T
Date Posted: June 19 2016 at 10:40
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by darksinger darksinger wrote:

not going to amuse the cool table here with a poll

A laxative might help with that constipation you're experiencing.
He has made it quite clear that he does own a gun (maybe several), and that for some strange reason he's embarrassed of it. 

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Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: June 19 2016 at 10:46
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by darksinger darksinger wrote:

not going to amuse the cool table here with a poll

A laxative might help with that constipation you're experiencing.
She has made it quite clear that she does own a gun (maybe several), and that for some strange reason she's embarrassed of it. 
fixed

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Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: June 19 2016 at 10:46
Why is she embarassed by it, maybe she feels it is a personal question best left unanswered. 


Posted By: infocat
Date Posted: June 19 2016 at 10:55
Obviously no one is obligated to answer the question. 
While the question was intended to be slightly provocative, I didn't set out to offend, and I am honestly interested in the answers.

BTW, I hope non-Americans don't think that Americans walk around (obviously) armed in public.  This is not the Wild West.  I can't recall ever seeing a "citizen" (someone other than police, military or security guard) in public with a firearm.  (What do I know; perhaps they all have "concealed carry"...)


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--
Frank Swarbrick
Belief is not Truth.


Posted By: The T
Date Posted: June 19 2016 at 11:14
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by darksinger darksinger wrote:

not going to amuse the cool table here with a poll

A laxative might help with that constipation you're experiencing.
She has made it quite clear that she does own a gun (maybe several), and that for some strange reason she's embarrassed of it. 
fixed
Oh I'm sorry. That was so Trumpian of me. 

Thanks for the correction. 


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Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: June 19 2016 at 11:31
Originally posted by infocat infocat wrote:

Obviously no one is obligated to answer the question. 
While the question was intended to be slightly provocative, I didn't set out to offend, and I am honestly interested in the answers.

BTW, I hope non-Americans don't think that Americans walk around (obviously) armed in public.  This is not the Wild West.  I can't recall ever seeing a "citizen" (someone other than police, military or security guard) in public with a firearm.  (What do I know; perhaps they all have "concealed carry"...)

I do not have a problem with your question. I do think "none of your business" is a viable legitimate answer and the poster should not have been disrespected and trolled by stupid comebacks about an honest answer.


Posted By: TeleStrat
Date Posted: June 19 2016 at 11:37
I do not promote gun ownership and I'm not on an "Arm America" campaign.
If someone is not willing to take the time and effort to educate themselves on firearms handling and firearms safety then I don't want them having a gun.
It's bad enough living in a society where I have to worry about criminals. I don't want to have to worry about some untrained citizen with a loaded Glock in their underwear drawer.


Posted By: darksinger
Date Posted: June 19 2016 at 14:08
Originally posted by timothy leary timothy leary wrote:

Why is she embarassed by it, maybe she feels it is a personal question best left unanswered. 

Thanks! For both of the answers :)

I am not embarrassed by being an owner of weapons. I have all kinds really. I just feel that, unless one is planning harm, they should not have to justify owning a weapon. I am not a criminal, nor am I on a watch list, so my reason for having one is as much of another person's business as it is for why I like the bands I do. a weapon does not imply a tendency to violence any more than a fork is an implication of obesity.


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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: June 19 2016 at 14:34
^So much better am answer than calling everybody sharing in this discussion the "cool table".



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Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: June 19 2016 at 16:29
After responding to disrespect


Posted By: *frinspar*
Date Posted: June 19 2016 at 16:37
Like darksinger, I don't see why anyone should be made to feel they have to justify their ownership. But at the same time, I don't really give damn about the 2nd amendment. If we did away with it, I would be okay. 

While we live in a decent area, several years ago there were a fair amount of home invasions and robberies close enough to our home that we finally decided to get a couple of guns.

We bought a 9mm with hollow points for the protection part, and a .22 for the cheap practice ammo.
I figure it's more about peace of mind, and probably, hopefully, will never be necessary to use.

We'd been talking about it for a few years off and on, and seriously researched and educated ourselves on proper handling long before buying. She can handle the 9mm, and that was important to find something potentially effective enough to be protection, but not difficult to manipulate. We considered a shotgun for the unarguable stopping power, but she had difficulty handling them.

Also gives me comfort when I'm away that she has something to protect herself with. She keeps the case near her at those times.

And, since we bought them, we both have come to enjoy doing a little target practice, as well as the ritual processes of cleaning and maintaining them.

I live in Arizona, and the gun laws here and requirements to purchase, for all practical purposes don't seem to exist. You can go and buy a gun an hour if you want, plop it on your hip and go grocery shopping. You can buy thousands of rounds of ammo, and all you're likely to get are approving nods and maybe even some applause.

But I've gotta say, for all the potential for people to walk around like they're cowboys, I've only seen 2 people open carry in the 17 years I've been living here.


Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: June 19 2016 at 17:12
Originally posted by timothy leary timothy leary wrote:

I do not have a problem with your question. I do think "none of your business" is a viable legitimate answer and the poster should not have been disrespected and trolled by stupid comebacks about an honest answer.

One wonders why a reply is necessary if one wishes to take the 5th. "None of your business" amounts to "I don't want to talk about it", which is quite ironic for a discussion forum. I am certainly happy the poster expanded on her reply after initially going off the deep end. 

In any case, there was no "trolling" intended in my first reply (but then poor Timmy is being over-dramatic, being that he's still butt-hurt from a previous conversation). 

"If I tell you I'll have to kill you" is a stock answer from a thousand spy/detective movies and should not have caused anyone upset, let alone confusion. Next time I will affix an emoticon at the end to assure everyone my intentions are pure. Like now. LOL


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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...


Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: June 19 2016 at 17:35
No one has a proverbial gun to the head and has to answer the question or enter discussion here at all. Anyway, I apologise if my "Well, I found it funny, maybe do a poll to see the general consensus" response seemed disrespectful or unfriendly in any way. Humour, like tastes, is very subjective, and we all have different perspectives on things.

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Just a fanboy passin' through.


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: June 19 2016 at 17:49
^ It's true, and yet I can also see how a person not so comfortable discussing their gun ownership would at the same time know the subject better than the rest, and would therefore have some things to say.   It must be a fine line.



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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: June 19 2016 at 18:45
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by timothy leary timothy leary wrote:

I do not have a problem with your question. I do think "none of your business" is a viable legitimate answer and the poster should not have been disrespected and trolled by stupid comebacks about an honest answer.

One wonders why a reply is necessary if one wishes to take the 5th. "None of your business" amounts to "I don't want to talk about it", which is quite ironic for a discussion forum. I am certainly happy the poster expanded on her reply after initially going off the deep end. 

In any case, there was no "trolling" intended in my first reply (but then poor Timmy is being over-dramatic, being that he's still butt-hurt from a previous conversation). 

"If I tell you I'll have to kill you" is a stock answer from a thousand spy/detective movies and should not have caused anyone upset, let alone confusion. Next time I will affix an emoticon at the end to assure everyone my intentions are pure. Like now. LOL
Constipated much, it is always the other person with you. They went off the deep end. Most people see "none of your business" and leave it alone.LOL


Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: June 19 2016 at 18:54
Originally posted by timothy leary timothy leary wrote:


Most people see "none of your business" and leave it alone.LOL

Oh, I see. For you, it's rather like someone making a gutless response like "I won't vote" and then getting one's panties in a bunch when many posters mocked the reply.


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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...


Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: June 19 2016 at 18:59
Deflection is a good strategy. have a go at it.


Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: June 19 2016 at 19:01
Perhaps we should have a vote on it. Oh wait...never mind.

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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...


Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: June 19 2016 at 19:06
Good ideaLOL


Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: June 20 2016 at 07:02
I don't fully understand this background check thing, that so many gun advocates seem to object to. Can someone explain it to me?

What is their actual objection? Is it purely the fact they object to government interference and 'snooping'?

Would I be right in assuming therefore that these folks would be quite happy if an unchecked lunatic with history of schizophrenia and violent criminality moved in next door with an arsenal of military firepower, so long as their 'right' to not be verified hadn't been infringed?

Is it more complex than that? Do the rules vary state to state?

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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!


Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: June 20 2016 at 08:44
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

I don't fully understand this background check thing, that so many gun advocates seem to object to. Can someone explain it to me?

What is their actual objection? Is it purely the fact they object to government interference and 'snooping'?

Would I be right in assuming therefore that these folks would be quite happy if an unchecked lunatic with history of schizophrenia and violent criminality moved in next door with an arsenal of military firepower, so long as their 'right' to not be verified hadn't been infringed?

Is it more complex than that? Do the rules vary state to state?

The argument I usually hear is they oppose it because it'll lead to some national gun registry or something where basically all your/gun info is collected somewhere. 
Honestly I have no idea, it's just the same ol slippery slope stuff how it'll lead inevitably to Hitler. As you say just hatred/paranoia of government. 

Rules do vary state to state. Wildly actually, some have basically no gun laws, some are extremely strict. Cities also sometimes set their own rules which would probably be stricter than the average. 


Posted By: The T
Date Posted: June 20 2016 at 09:22
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

I don't fully understand this background check thing, that so many gun advocates seem to object to. Can someone explain it to me?

What is their actual objection? Is it purely the fact they object to government interference and 'snooping'?

Would I be right in assuming therefore that these folks would be quite happy if an unchecked lunatic with history of schizophrenia and violent criminality moved in next door with an arsenal of military firepower, so long as their 'right' to not be verified hadn't been infringed?

Is it more complex than that? Do the rules vary state to state?
There are some people in the US who oppose driving licenses. 

DRIVING LICENSES. 

You can imagine it's not much of a stretch to oppose background checks. 

Now these same people want drug tests for recipients of welfare. But they don't give a damn if for example a drug addict on welfare with antisocial personality disorder gets access to a AR-15. Freedom. 

There are variations state to state. But also remember this is the country where some states have considered allowing open carry of weapons in BARS. WHERE ALCOHOL IS SOLD AND CONSUMED. 


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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: June 21 2016 at 00:40
The Dalai Lama says "Gun control comes from inside."   Yeah.   No.

Thanks Lam but you seem tragically out of touch, which of course you are.   And with all due respect please take your childlike observations and shut it.   Gun control comes from controlling guns.   You wanna control people?   Good luck with that.   But thank you for your input.



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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: June 21 2016 at 00:55
Buddhism emphasizes self-control, self-reflection; exploring and improving one's inner self, so it's coming from that perspective.

“Real gun control must start here,“ the Dalai Lama said, pointing to his heart. “More compassionate sort of feeling. Sense of respect for others’ life, others’ right. That’s the real method of gun control.”

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Just a fanboy passin' through.


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: June 21 2016 at 01:01
I know but you can't change other people.  Nor should one try, in the end it is misled.  He is absolutely right that true gun control has to ultimately come from a personal choice against violence.  But American's thrive on individualism and generally retreat from group thinking, and it isn't plausible to control the gun-owning population with good philosophies or intentions.   Therefore if you want to reduce gun violence you reduce guns.  It's a matter of numbers.  And urgency.   His words are meaningful but almost completely useless.





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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: June 21 2016 at 01:21
If he has made it clear that that is all that should be done about gun control, then I would be upset. I haven't listened to whole speech he made. If he is, as a spiritual leader, trying to appeal to people to do more soul-searching and develop more compassion so as to better control violence, then great. Others who have a say in legislation can talk about the legislative and more immediately practical side of things. It's good to get a diverse range of people talking about these matters and bringing in their own perspectives.

I'ma big one for free speech though, and would rather not have him "shut it" unless he is advocating violence, which he isn't, or his words will do harm. He has minimal influence in the US, of course. His aim is not to control people with a good philosophy, but he is urging people to control themselves with good philosophy.

By the way, I've spoken with the Dalai Lama, and I found him a wonderful man. Some of his comments can seem very naive.

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Just a fanboy passin' through.


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: June 21 2016 at 01:22
I accept that.



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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: June 21 2016 at 03:07
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

I don't fully understand this background check thing, that so many gun advocates seem to object to. Can someone explain it to me?

What is their actual objection? Is it purely the fact they object to government interference and 'snooping'?

Would I be right in assuming therefore that these folks would be quite happy if an unchecked lunatic with history of schizophrenia and violent criminality moved in next door with an arsenal of military firepower, so long as their 'right' to not be verified hadn't been infringed?

Is it more complex than that? Do the rules vary state to state?
There are some people in the US who oppose driving licenses. 

DRIVING LICENSES. 

You can imagine it's not much of a stretch to oppose background checks. 

Now these same people want drug tests for recipients of welfare. But they don't give a damn if for example a drug addict on welfare with antisocial personality disorder gets access to a AR-15. Freedom. 

There are variations state to state. But also remember this is the country where some states have considered allowing open carry of weapons in BARS. WHERE ALCOHOL IS SOLD AND CONSUMED. 


Thanks for the replies, both.

It seems their ogic doen't stack up and te hypocrisy is out of this world.

Additionally if a government seriously wanted to crush its citizenry, a few rifles is not going to stop that. Citizens would need tactical nuclear weapons in their backyards!

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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 21 2016 at 05:03
Apparently more people in the USA are killed or injured by guns than cars so perhaps just maybe there is something in this regulation lark after all. Then maybe it's just a weird coincidence like the weird coincidence that you have more guns than people and a far higher rates of gun crime, gun deaths, than any country that has even a smidgen of gun control and that it is simply a weird coincidence that there are sufficient numbers of mass-shootings and gun-related massacres in the USA to make a distinction between the two when reporting gun-death statistics.

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What?


Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: June 21 2016 at 05:20
Maybe the US has got it right though? We are far too many people in the world and most of our biggest issues stem from that. The lack of gun control may very well function as people control.

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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 21 2016 at 05:23
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Maybe the US has got it right though? We are far too many people in the world and most of our biggest issues stem from that. The lack of gun control may very well function as people control.
Yeah, but they breed like rabbits. LOL

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What?


Posted By: The T
Date Posted: June 21 2016 at 08:12
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Maybe the US has got it right though? We are far too many people in the world and most of our biggest issues stem from that. The lack of gun control may very well function as people control.
This is a pretty good idea, however, when they start shooting closer to home (and Orlando is just 3 hours away) I start to disagree with the population control thing. Tongue

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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: June 21 2016 at 08:14
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:



Additionally if a government seriously wanted to crush its citizenry, a few rifles is not going to stop that. Citizens would need tactical nuclear weapons in their backyards!
Exactly. The stereotypical lunatic that owns 95721 guns and is scared that guv'ment is going to take away his guns is real. However, even if all the NRA-jerking idiots got together and tried to oppose the US government, one press of a button would take all the idiots away... 

Now that idea... 


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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: June 21 2016 at 08:14
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

The Dalai Lama says "Gun control comes from inside."   Yeah.   No.

Thanks Lam but you seem tragically out of touch, which of course you are.   And with all due respect please take your childlike observations and shut it.   Gun control comes from controlling guns.   You wanna control people?   Good luck with that.   But thank you for your input.

Clap

The Dalai Lama is a walking Facebook post. 


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Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: June 21 2016 at 08:27
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Maybe the US has got it right though? We are far too many people in the world and most of our biggest issues stem from that. The lack of gun control may very well function as people control.
This is a pretty good idea, however, when they start shooting closer to home (and Orlando is just 3 hours away) I start to disagree with the population control thing. Tongue

I know what you mean T.
I've often gotten into trouble talking like this, mostly because it is so easy of a statement to make, when one is on the outside of the equation. I remember arguing with a doctor, who was (probably is) working on a cure for some cancer that I can't remember right now. I mentioned that I thought it to be an insane endeavour - in that it would lead to more people...and we can't even feed the world as we speak. He got extremely upset with me and I really can't blame him. I have quite a few family member and friends alike who have experienced the terrors of cancer. I was just being sarcastically realistic (if that's a thing). Doesn't change the fact that the road to hell often is paved with good intentions.


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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams


Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: June 21 2016 at 08:44
Far too many people? and which one is too many?

Your brothers and sisters?

Your childrens?

You, maybe.



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Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: June 21 2016 at 08:45
Exactly my point (if you read my post again)

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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams


Posted By: TeleStrat
Date Posted: June 21 2016 at 11:03
I've read some of the gun deaths/injuries compared to car deaths/injuries and the numbers are just not accurate. You need to look a little closer and find out just how they came up with their findings.
Numbers are easy to manipulate if you already have an opinion and only look at results that support that opinion.
For example, look how easy it is to determine the number of unemployed in this country simply by counting only those who are actually collecting unemployment benefits while ignoring the millions of others who are out of work and not collecting benefits. Now, who would do something like that?

When it comes to gun related statistics you have to consider law abiding citizens and criminals as being two separate groups. This is especially true when I hear people talking about the lack of gun control. You need to do a Google search and find out just how many gun laws are already on the books.
Unfortunately, these laws only mean something to law abiding citizens. They mean absolutely nothing to criminals.


Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: June 21 2016 at 11:21
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Maybe the US has got it right though? We are far too many people in the world and most of our biggest issues stem from that. The lack of gun control may very well function as people control.

I think we have less of a population problem and more of a distribution problem.

Also I saw an article that said AR-15 sales are booming.


Posted By: Polymorphia
Date Posted: June 21 2016 at 12:03
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

If he has made it clear that that is all that should be done about gun control, then I would be upset. I haven't listened to whole speech he made. If he is, as a spiritual leader, trying to appeal to people to do more soul-searching and develop more compassion so as to better control violence, then great. Others who have a say in legislation can talk about the legislative and more immediately practical side of things. It's good to get a diverse range of people talking about these matters and bringing in their own perspectives.

I'ma big one for free speech though, and would rather not have him "shut it" unless he is advocating violence, which he isn't, or his words will do harm. He has minimal influence in the US, of course. His aim is not to control people with a good philosophy, but he is urging people to control themselves with good philosophy.

By the way, I've spoken with the Dalai Lama, and I found him a wonderful man. Some of his comments can seem very naive.
I'm for some level of gun control, but imo it's just damage control. It's hardly fixes the problem that we in America, and everywhere, are so angry and violent in the first place. You see it in public discourse too, particularly amongst my generation. Whenever there is a mass shooting, the discussion often revolves around gun control like that's all there is to the equation.

So, I can maybe get where he's coming from.


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https://dreamwindow.bandcamp.com/releases" rel="nofollow - My Music


Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: June 21 2016 at 13:09
Is this anything like a washing machine?

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i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag
that's a happy bag of lettuce
this car smells like cartilage
nothing beats a good video about fractions


Posted By: Polymorphia
Date Posted: June 21 2016 at 13:30
Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

Is this anything like a washing machine?
Both of them make it hard to fit a man inside. 

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https://dreamwindow.bandcamp.com/releases" rel="nofollow - My Music


Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: June 21 2016 at 14:51
Originally posted by Polymorphia Polymorphia wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

If he has made it clear that that is all that should be done about gun control, then I would be upset. I haven't listened to whole speech he made. If he is, as a spiritual leader, trying to appeal to people to do more soul-searching and develop more compassion so as to better control violence, then great. Others who have a say in legislation can talk about the legislative and more immediately practical side of things. It's good to get a diverse range of people talking about these matters and bringing in their own perspectives.

I'ma big one for free speech though, and would rather not have him "shut it" unless he is advocating violence, which he isn't, or his words will do harm. He has minimal influence in the US, of course. His aim is not to control people with a good philosophy, but he is urging people to control themselves with good philosophy.

By the way, I've spoken with the Dalai Lama, and I found him a wonderful man. Some of his comments can seem very naive.
I'm for some level of gun control, but imo it's just damage control. It's hardly fixes the problem that we in America, and everywhere, are so angry and violent in the first place. You see it in public discourse too, particularly amongst my generation. Whenever there is a mass shooting, the discussion often revolves around gun control like that's all there is to the equation.

So, I can maybe get where he's coming from.


He's coming from a Buddhist perspective (and not just Buddhist philosophy of course) that it starts with changing yourself. A crucial difference in how I looked at it from David's POV (or the way he expressed it), is that it's not about controlling others, it starts with managing yourself. But thee Dalai Lama is preaching to the converted. Those who will find his message appealing are those that already share those views.

His role is more as a spiritual entity than a political entity (someone will mention or think Free Tibet now). He has no political or legislative power in the US, nor citizenship, but he does have some influence. I don't know that it's his place to call for legislation (he's not even American), but I digress from your point.

I do believe that there needs to be stricter gun controls. It won't do away with violence by any means, but it would make it tougher for people to commit mass atrocities. At the same time, I would like "good" values to be reinforced by religious leaders, politicians etc. We all have but a veneer of civilization, but with some it's deeper than with others, but I think most of us have self-control and care about others and the affect we have on others.

In some places, violence is much more common than others, and part of that is ideological including the way we inculcate out children. It's often said, if you want to change the world, change yourself first.

I ramble....

Speaking of religious people (I'm a rather irrational rationalist), it's been quite appalling to me to hear several right-wing Christian preachers in the US praising the Orlando massacre and then complaining about how it's going to be another pretext for pushing gun control and limiting free speech under the auspice of hate speech.

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Just a fanboy passin' through.


Posted By: Polymorphia
Date Posted: June 21 2016 at 15:25
I've only heard about one guy praising the Orlando massacre, and the right-wing Christians I know were pretty appalled by it too.

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https://dreamwindow.bandcamp.com/releases" rel="nofollow - My Music


Posted By: TeleStrat
Date Posted: June 21 2016 at 15:32
^  There were several, even one would be too many.


Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: June 21 2016 at 15:58
Indeed, I certainly wouldn't paint all right-wing Christians with the same tarbrush.

There were a few I heard, and quite a number of others who supported them. Sorry sharing some links, I question whether I should.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2016/06/christian-pastor-calls-orlando-massacre-good-news/" rel="nofollow - Pastor Steven Anderson of Faithful Word Baptist Church in Florida
http://www.snopes.com/california-pastor-praises-orlando-massacre/" rel="nofollow - Pastor Roger Jimenez of the Verity Baptist Church in Sacramento
http://thescoopblog.dallasnews.com/2016/06/fort-worth-pastor-calls-orlando-shooting-victims-the-scum-of-the-earth.html/" rel="nofollow - Donnie Romero of Stedfast Baptist Church in Fort Worth

These pastors are affiliated, and there have been many cases of intolerance involving Southern Baptist preachers.

See this article for more: http://www.advocate.com/religion/2016/6/14/baptist-pastor-who-cheered-orlando-murders-isnt-alone" rel="nofollow - The Baptist Pastor Who Cheered Orlando Murders Isn't Alone

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Just a fanboy passin' through.


Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: June 21 2016 at 16:37
I never have owned a gun.....except for a pair of mint in case Colt Derringers I inherited when my father passed away...and I have never fired them.
I don't really have a problem with gun ownership but I don;t understand all the paranoia from many on the right who think any new or stricter regulations on background checks and making it more difficult for some  to own guns are somehow infringing upon their Constitutional rights.
You'd think the NRA and other orgs like them would be in favor of keeping guns out of the hands of bad people and the mentally ill yet they seem hell bent on resisting any reforms. 
Are they really that paranoid?
Confused



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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin


Posted By: TeleStrat
Date Posted: June 21 2016 at 16:41
I certainly agree that those few do not speak for all Christians but you can bet that the anti religious crowd will use it to their advantage. 
It's interesting that before the internet and smart phones no one would have ever heard about this. 
I'm sure that the sermons would have angered people in the congregation and they may have had words with the pastor but it wouldn't have made the local news.
In today's world I'm sure some people were on their smart phones posting on Twitter and Facebook while they were still in the church parking lot.
Thanks to high tech good news travels fast but so does hate.


Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: June 21 2016 at 16:41
Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

I never have owned a gun.....except for a pair of mint in case Colt Derringers I inherited when my father passed away...and I have never fired them.

I don't really have a problem with gun ownership but I don't understand all the paranoia from many on the right who think any new or stricter regulations on background checks and making it more difficult for some  to own guns are somehow infringing upon their Constitutional rights.

You'd think the NRA and other orgs like them would be in favor of keeping guns out of the hands of bad people and the mentally ill yet they seem hell bent on resisting any reforms. 

Are they really that paranoid?Confused


I suspect that leaders in the NRA and other orgs like them have their own personal motivations which are less than altruistic.

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Just a fanboy passin' through.


Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: June 21 2016 at 17:16
Originally posted by TeleStrat TeleStrat wrote:

I certainly agree that those few do not speak for all Christians but you can bet that the anti religious crowd will use it to their advantage.
It's interesting that before the internet and smart phones no one would have ever heard about this.
I'm sure that the sermons would have angered people in the congregation and they may have had words with the pastor but it wouldn't have made the local news.
In today's world I'm sure some people were on their smart phones posting on Twitter and Facebook while they were still in the church parking lot.
Thanks to high tech good news travels fast but so does hate.


Point taken; just want to add:

I expect that a lot of these kind of things still happen that never get around.

I watched sermons by the people I mentioned, and related ones, and I heard applause and assent from the audience (would have loved to hear a shame on you, but I guess harsh words would come after. The congregation tends to know where the pastors stand. I used to be a regular church goer and was never shocked by a sermon (but then Anglican Church sermons tend to be pretty non-controversial).

The most shocking video of Pastor Anderson he filmed himself, and wanted out there on the internet. Warning, highly offensive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB-VsYiDrRw" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB-VsYiDrRw

I just don't want anyone to think that it's just angry people filming these things and then posting it, these churches and pastors are filming these and uploading them to the internet as well. I'm sure some people are monitoring known extremists and their web-sites looking for such stuff, and probably attending the services. I could be wrong, but I don't think any of the ones I mentioned were filmed and originally uploaded in a secretive fashion. They want to get their opinion based on their interpretations out there. As do the followers of the pastors who taped themselves and then put their videos up on youtube.

I think these people have many more sympathizers than we would like to think they have.

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Just a fanboy passin' through.



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