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Shooting in Munich, Germany

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Topic: Shooting in Munich, Germany
Posted By: BaldFriede
Subject: Shooting in Munich, Germany
Date Posted: July 22 2016 at 13:55
4 hours ago there was a shooting in Munich, Germany. At least 6 dead have been confirmed; there may be up to three assassins. It is yet unclear if it is a terrorist attack or someone running amok. The killer or killers are still on the loose.


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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.



Replies:
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: July 22 2016 at 14:06
^ Sorry to hear that. Too many psychos with guns - they obviously haven't discovered Prog.


Posted By: ALotOfBottle
Date Posted: July 22 2016 at 14:09
My cousin was in Munich yestarday...
The world is crazy. I can't comprehend the amount of pure hate that there is going around. We are all brothers. Peace with you, Germany!


Posted By: Quinino
Date Posted: July 22 2016 at 14:20
Peace Ying Yang

Don't let fear affect your judgement...


Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: July 22 2016 at 14:36
The latest news is that 8 dead have been confirmed. The police also found a male body in the area they had been searching, but it is yet unclear if this body is connected to the shooting.


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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.


Posted By: The T
Date Posted: July 22 2016 at 15:56
I find it very disconcerting that we're getting so used to these tragedies in this world that US news networks are not in their usual 24-hr exclusive coverage of this event. It's like they're thinking "only 9 people dead, not enough to warrant full attention"

I love Germany (and Munchen) dearly so I hope this doesn't get worse. 


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Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: July 22 2016 at 18:38
Condolensces. Didn't think those things happened in Germany :)
I agree Tom Ozric. Don't these people know what good music is?
No matter how bad things get, i have my music collection!!!!
It only makes me love my enemies. Now how's that for a sales pitch?>


Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: July 23 2016 at 03:40
http://i.sli.mg/MJekEy.jpg" rel="nofollow - The identity has been confirmed.


Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: July 23 2016 at 04:03
....I bet if they found my body, everyone would be rejoicing.............


Posted By: jayem
Date Posted: July 23 2016 at 07:21
One more guy very likely to have gone crazy at sexual over-stimulations and poor interactions with women. My guess is that 100% of those lunatics, from ISIS or not, become crazy that way. One should tell them at school, that short-lived sexual nirvanas don't prevent possible depression the next day, happiness doesn't require the ultimate "alpha"-type at all, and everyone has so much time to go for steady relationships.

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https://bandcamp.com/machinechance/?lang=en" rel="nofollow - bandcamp collection


Posted By: jayem
Date Posted: July 23 2016 at 10:59
I've re-read my post trying to see if I deserved this reply and I don't see anything, so one of us must have misunderstood something...

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Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: July 23 2016 at 11:31
Let's not jump to conclusions.


Posted By: jayem
Date Posted: July 23 2016 at 11:32
I haven't. 

So ?


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Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: July 23 2016 at 11:35
Originally posted by jayem jayem wrote:

One more guy very likely to have gone crazy at sexual over-stimulations and poor interactions with women. My guess is that 100% of those lunatics, from ISIS or not, become crazy that way. One should tell them at school, that short-lived sexual nirvanas don't prevent possible depression the next day, happiness doesn't require the ultimate "alpha"-type at all, and everyone has so much time to go for steady relationships.

Based on what I've read he is just a standard nutter, not the religious type.


Posted By: jayem
Date Posted: July 23 2016 at 11:46
We're enemies now, but please note  that I recommend being a "standard nutter" when I see people with same opinion of yours showing more diplomatic skills.

If my enemies won't behave and keep hitting me without me deserving, will someone get that place rid of them please ?

If I deserve those insults, someone please tell why ?

Thanks.


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http://www.digger.ch/?lang=en" rel="nofollow - Support mine-clearing !
https://bandcamp.com/machinechance/?lang=en" rel="nofollow - bandcamp collection


Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: July 23 2016 at 11:46
Originally posted by Vompatti Vompatti wrote:

http://i.sli.mg/MJekEy.jpg" rel="nofollow - The identity has been confirmed.

"The dead man was a backpack". 

Well, someone who does something like that certainly carries a lot of baggage. Wacko


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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...


Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: July 23 2016 at 11:52
Originally posted by jayem jayem wrote:

We're enemies now, but please note  that I recommend being a "standard nutter" when I see people with same opinion of yours showing more diplomatic skills.

If my enemies won't behave and keep hitting me without me deserving, will someone get that place rid of them please ?

If I deserve those insults, someone please tell why ?

Thanks.

Are you a mass shooter q.m.


Posted By: jayem
Date Posted: July 23 2016 at 11:59
Why insult someone you suspect to be a mass shooter ?

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Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: July 23 2016 at 12:01
Originally posted by jayem jayem wrote:

Why insult someone you suspect to be a mass shooter ?

I'm not sure what you are talking about honestly. People who http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/23/europe/germany-munich-shooting/" rel="nofollow - research spree killings and commit one aimed at children on the anniversary of Anders Breivik's attack are not nice people, though.


Posted By: jayem
Date Posted: July 23 2016 at 12:03
You're not sure ? So why begin with an insult ?

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Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: July 23 2016 at 12:06
I don't think you have to worry about sexual stimuli if you're an Islamic extremist.
After all, all you have to do is hit the button in a crowd and wham!: instant pedophile.


Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: July 23 2016 at 12:06
Originally posted by jayem jayem wrote:

You're not sure ? So why begin with an insult ?

You seemed offended on behalf of some group of people, but I have no idea who. Since I was talking about a mass murderer that is all I could ascribe it to (jokingly, obviously)


Posted By: jayem
Date Posted: July 23 2016 at 12:08
Topic too sensitive for a joke.

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Posted By: jayem
Date Posted: July 23 2016 at 12:13
Vompatti didn't reply to some group of people, and you didn't call a "standard nutter" some group of people. Anyway I don't feel offended on behalf of some group of people.

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Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: July 23 2016 at 12:16
Oh surely, someone must be offended on behalf of someone? Come on, people!


Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: July 23 2016 at 12:17
It seems to me as if someone were offended on behalf of the shooter.


Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: July 23 2016 at 12:21
^ Aren't terrorists merely people offended to the extreme? I can't stand your mode of living so much that I have to kill you, your family and your friends, even if I've never met you, or your way of life doesn't impinge on my life at all. Just the thought of you living your life the way you want to, and not the way I think you should live your life, makes me sick.

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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...


Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: July 23 2016 at 12:28
Note: I've hidden the bodily fluid comment as it seemed extremely tasteless and inappropriate in the discussion of this tragedy. I don't think the murderer deserves respect, but I do think that the seriousness of this issue, the victims, and the family and friends of the victims deserve a certain solemnity and dignified response.

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Just a fanboy passin' through.


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 23 2016 at 13:36
We've all seen this movie and we're sick of it. Solo wacko or mass wackos, it all results in the same ending. Unhappy


Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: July 23 2016 at 14:52
Originally posted by jayem jayem wrote:

Vompatti didn't reply to some group of people, and you didn't call a "standard nutter" some group of people. Anyway I don't feel offended on behalf of some group of people.

In that case nvm then. I did not mean to invoke any idea of mental illness though (due to the fact that he apparently was treated for one), it is often blamed as a cause for shootings despite the fact that a vast majority of mentally ill people are more of a danger to themselves than anyone else.


Posted By: jayem
Date Posted: July 23 2016 at 15:36
Sure nevermind ?... Actually it's better we forget this conversation because I'm paranoidly mistaken : I'd thought you were commenting to Vompatti on me, and not on the mass shooter...

Enmity between us is thus powered by no comment, and I have the rest of my life to go figure why I wouldn't read your comments the proper way.


So all the best and let's locate lunatics-to-be and get them on better tracks !!!







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http://www.digger.ch/?lang=en" rel="nofollow - Support mine-clearing !
https://bandcamp.com/machinechance/?lang=en" rel="nofollow - bandcamp collection


Posted By: Sardonite Calamity
Date Posted: July 24 2016 at 18:07
Again! Muslim Terrorists! If its not Islam then I don't know what the
fk it is!

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I used to have a really good signature but I forgot it...


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: July 24 2016 at 18:10
^ Ah, our new resident fear-monger.  Welcome to the party.



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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: micky
Date Posted: July 24 2016 at 18:11
Originally posted by Sardonite Calamity Sardonite Calamity wrote:

Again! Muslim Terrorists! If its not Islam then I don't know what the
fk it is!



Big smile ignorance and stupidity know no borders...




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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip


Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: July 24 2016 at 19:08
Originally posted by Sardonite Calamity Sardonite Calamity wrote:

Again! Muslim Terrorists! If its not Islam then I don't know what the
fk it is!

1. the thread is on an incident with a perpetrator with no religious motivation.
2. if you are referring to the machete attack there is no stated religious motivation.


Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: July 24 2016 at 21:59
Another incident in Germany: https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/jul/25/ansbach-explosion-german-town-deliberate-blast-latest" rel="nofollow - https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/jul/25/ansbach-explosion-german-town-deliberate-blast-latest :(

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Just a fanboy passin' through.


Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: July 25 2016 at 00:44
First of all, I must admit that this is an emotional response, after this latest attack I’m not nearly calm enough for a measured reply. I am very, very angry.

I have lived in Germany for many decades now and have therefore been living in a civilized, safe environment and society. This now appears to be over.

The mornings now consist of getting up and scanning the news headlines, not so much as to read about any new world developments, but wondering if a new attack has happened on my home soil, where this happened, and how many casualties there have been. I expect this now.

This is the country in which I now live.

When the refugees first arrived, I belonged to the faction that supported the decision of the German government to help these people; it was the civilized and humane thing to do. I supported this view vehemently until very recently. I couldn’t understand the other European countries closing their borders and refusing entry to all these poor people seeking shelter and help from war and destruction in their own countries.

Now I am forced to admit that they were right and I was wrong.

The problem is that I still firmly believe that the vast majority of refugees are frightened and helpless people who need support after a terrible ordeal, and there are relatively few who pose a threat or danger, but it’s these few who are threatening me and my friends’ and family’s personal safety. The comforting feeling of safety is gone, the war has now been moved to my home turf.

I know I may be overreacting; as I said earlier, this is an emotional response, but I no longer feel 100% safe in our own cities. My response is to eye foreigners I pass everywhere with careful suspicion, something I’ve never done before. It’s an unconscious reflex response. I don’t want it to be that way, but I can’t help it. It’s not really that I suspect some of them to go berserk all of a sudden, but wondering if I’m unlucky enough to come across one of those few who spell trouble. It could happen anywhere, anytime. That’s the country I now live in. And because of that, I feel angry.

At the same time I realise that this is the intended response, so I also feel manipulated and bad about my own changing viewpoint.

I don’t think there is a solution. There is no opponent to talk to or no one with whom to come to an agreement, and the killing in the country in which I live will go on, becoming more and more common with each passing week.

The mistake has been made, the floodgates have been opened and the enemy that can’t be seen is walking among us, and it’s now a new country that is only beginning its downward spiral with no solution in sight. This sounds melodramatic, it probably is, but that’s the way I feel about it.

I can only hope that, given enough cause, this country won’t descend into vigilantism with angry mobs starting to roam the streets at night. Looking at the ghastly political developments with the far right parties on the rise, I don’t think this is very far away. After all, a few months back none of us would have thought it possible what’s happening here now.

Both God and Allah help us all.



Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: July 25 2016 at 01:46
That's a very heartfelt post, and I feel terrible about the situation.

Incidentally, for those that haven't read the articles or heard this on the news, apparently Ian Anderson was set to perform at the music festival that the suicide bomber was not allowed into.

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Just a fanboy passin' through.


Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: July 25 2016 at 02:03
Originally posted by npjnpj npjnpj wrote:

First of all, I must admit that this is an emotional response, after this latest attack I’m not nearly calm enough for a measured reply. I am very, very angry.

I have lived in Germany for many decades now and have therefore been living in a civilized, safe environment and society. This now appears to be over.

The mornings now consist of getting up and scanning the news headlines, not so much as to read about any new world developments, but wondering if a new attack has happened on my home soil, where this happened, and how many casualties there have been. I expect this now.

This is the country in which I now live.

When the refugees first arrived, I belonged to the faction that supported the decision of the German government to help these people; it was the civilized and humane thing to do. I supported this view vehemently until very recently. I couldn’t understand the other European countries closing their borders and refusing entry to all these poor people seeking shelter and help from war and destruction in their own countries.

Now I am forced to admit that they were right and I was wrong.

The problem is that I still firmly believe that the vast majority of refugees are frightened and helpless people who need support after a terrible ordeal, and there are relatively few who pose a threat or danger, but it’s these few who are threatening me and my friends’ and family’s personal safety. The comforting feeling of safety is gone, the war has now been moved to my home turf.

I know I may be overreacting; as I said earlier, this is an emotional response, but I no longer feel 100% safe in our own cities. My response is to eye foreigners I pass everywhere with careful suspicion, something I’ve never done before. It’s an unconscious reflex response. I don’t want it to be that way, but I can’t help it. It’s not really that I suspect some of them to go berserk all of a sudden, but wondering if I’m unlucky enough to come across one of those few who spell trouble. It could happen anywhere, anytime. That’s the country I now live in. And because of that, I feel angry.

At the same time I realise that this is the intended response, so I also feel manipulated and bad about my own changing viewpoint.

I don’t think there is a solution. There is no opponent to talk to or no one with whom to come to an agreement, and the killing in the country in which I live will go on, becoming more and more common with each passing week.

The mistake has been made, the floodgates have been opened and the enemy that can’t be seen is walking among us, and it’s now a new country that is only beginning its downward spiral with no solution in sight. This sounds melodramatic, it probably is, but that’s the way I feel about it.

I can only hope that, given enough cause, this country won’t descend into vigilantism with angry mobs starting to roam the streets at night. Looking at the ghastly political developments with the far right parties on the rise, I don’t think this is very far away. After all, a few months back none of us would have thought it possible what’s happening here now.

Both God and Allah help us all.


I have been living in Germany since 1993. I don't share these feelings, but I understand them. I do however not support your conclusion "Now I am forced to admit that they were right and I was wrong". excuse me?

the Munich shootist was born and raised in Germany; he held German as well as Iranian citizenship. he does not have any connections to refugees at all. he was German period, just as I am German now. and everything points to him being someone running amok; there is no terrorist background at all. and I sincerely doubt his ethnicity has anything to do with his amok run.

as to the bombing in Arnsbach: nothing is known of the background of that bombing yet. it is therefore just jumping to conclusions as to the perpetrator(s) of that bombing.

so I don't see how you arrive at your conclusion


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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta


Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: July 25 2016 at 02:25
As I said, my response is emotional.
In cases such as Munich I do see an indirect connection to terrorism, as the psychological threshold to commit  acts off mass violence seems to be dropping in relationship to recent actual terrorist motivated attacks. This would especially include mentally unstable individuals without direct ties.
This is a very frightening aspect.


Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: July 25 2016 at 02:25
Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

Originally posted by npjnpj npjnpj wrote:

First of all, I must admit that this is an emotional response, after this latest attack I’m not nearly calm enough for a measured reply. I am very, very angry.
I have lived in Germany for many decades now and have therefore been living in a civilized, safe environment and society. This now appears to be over.
The mornings now consist of getting up and scanning the news headlines, not so much as to read about any new world developments, but wondering if a new attack has happened on my home soil, where this happened, and how many casualties there have been. I expect this now.
This is the country in which I now live.
When the refugees first arrived, I belonged to the faction that supported the decision of the German government to help these people; it was the civilized and humane thing to do. I supported this view vehemently until very recently. I couldn’t understand the other European countries closing their borders and refusing entry to all these poor people seeking shelter and help from war and destruction in their own countries.
Now I am forced to admit that they were right and I was wrong.
The problem is that I still firmly believe that the vast majority of refugees are frightened and helpless people who need support after a terrible ordeal, and there are relatively few who pose a threat or danger, but it’s these few who are threatening me and my friends’ and family’s personal safety. The comforting feeling of safety is gone, the war has now been moved to my home turf.
I know I may be overreacting; as I said earlier, this is an emotional response, but I no longer feel 100% safe in our own cities. My response is to eye foreigners I pass everywhere with careful suspicion, something I’ve never done before. It’s an unconscious reflex response. I don’t want it to be that way, but I can’t help it. It’s not really that I suspect some of them to go berserk all of a sudden, but wondering if I’m unlucky enough to come across one of those few who spell trouble. It could happen anywhere, anytime. That’s the country I now live in. And because of that, I feel angry.
At the same time I realise that this is the intended response, so I also feel manipulated and bad about my own changing viewpoint.
I don’t think there is a solution. There is no opponent to talk to or no one with whom to come to an agreement, and the killing in the country in which I live will go on, becoming more and more common with each passing week.
The mistake has been made, the floodgates have been opened and the enemy that can’t be seen is walking among us, and it’s now a new country that is only beginning its downward spiral with no solution in sight. This sounds melodramatic, it probably is, but that’s the way I feel about it.
I can only hope that, given enough cause, this country won’t descend into vigilantism with angry mobs starting to roam the streets at night. Looking at the ghastly political developments with the far right parties on the rise, I don’t think this is very far away. After all, a few months back none of us would have thought it possible what’s happening here now.
Both God and Allah help us all.


I have been living in Germany since 1993. I don't share these feelings, but I understand them. I do however not support your conclusion "Now I am forced to admit that they were right and I was wrong". excuse me?

the Munich shootist was born and raised in Germany; he held German as well as Iranian citizenship. he does not have any connections to refugees at all. he was German period, just as I am German now. and everything points to him being someone running amok; there is no terrorist background at all. and I sincerely doubt his ethnicity has anything to do with his amok run.

as to the bombing in Arnsbach: nothing is known of the background of that bombing yet. it is therefore just jumping to conclusions as to the perpetrator(s) of that bombing.

so I don't see how you arrive at your conclusion



The bombing is purported to have been done by a Syrian asylum seeker. Is that still very much in question?

From the link I posted above https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/jul/25/ansbach-explosion-german-town-deliberate-blast-latest" rel="nofollow - https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/jul/25/ansbach-explosion-german-town-deliberate-blast-latest :

Quote Official says attacker probably an Islamist

Bavarian Interior Minister Joachim Herrmann said it likely that the attack was the work of an “Islamist” suicide bomber, Deutsche Presse-Agentur reports.

It quotes him saying: “My personal opinion is that I unfortunately think it is very obvious that there has been a real Islamist suicide attack here. The obvious intent to kill more people, at least indicates an Islamist background.”


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The shooter's parents were from Iran, but Shiite, which are the enemies of groups like IS.

The man who killed a woman in the machete attack was a Syrian refugee.

And a hand-drawn IS flag was found at the home of the 17 year old Afghan refugee that did the attack on the train.

It's been a bloody week for Germany.

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Just a fanboy passin' through.


Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: July 25 2016 at 02:47
even if the Ansbach assailant is Syrian: we still know nothing of the background. and the Munich assailant had a German parent. I think social conditions have a lot more to do with becoming a terrorist than ethnicity.

I deal with people from other countries and of other ethnic backgrounds almost daily, many of them benig refugees. Friede and I do voluntary work in a neighborhood center, and many of the people who come there are of the Islamic faith. all of them are very nice people


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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta


Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: July 25 2016 at 03:15

This is a nice sentiment, and I wish it were true.
I agree that social conditions seem to play a vital part, but that's all that I'm in agreement with in your statement.
The way I see it, it is not a matter of ethnic background or nationality, this seems to be entirely religious-driven. It transcends countries, borders and ethnic groups. It's almost ethereal.
I can't even remember when or if I last heard of a Christian, Hindu, or Buddhist rampage.



Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: July 25 2016 at 03:31
The Munich one was a different sort of case.

Of course most are nice. But when you have several attacks in a week from migrants with a certain religious faith in a week and that follows closely on the heels of a serious attack on a neighboring country which has experienced several horrific attacks, and your country has taken on a massive number of refugees/migrants from certain parts of the world which have bred many terrorists and terrorist sympathizers, it's understandable that people might be worried. I do think more people should read the Quran and Hadith to get to know the faith better.

Social conditions may well be the most important factor, but the social conditions is certain countries may have got people used to violence and very angry. It's hard to create the right social conditions for any culture and peoples you bring in when you bring in so, so many so, so quickly. France and Belgium never seemed to manage well with certain groups, even over generations. The West should fear militant Islamism as do many moderate Moslems and other people's in predominantly Moslem nations. Sharia, for instance, is really at odds with Western law, but a considerable number want to see it imposed. There is a problem when certain cultures are at odds with the cultures they live in.

Religious-driven extremism is very scary as it is so irrational and people believe that they will be rewarded for what we could consider abhorrent behavior. Since Charlie Hebdo in particular, I've become less tolerant of intolerant peoples.

Helping the refugees is great and just, but a state's primary responsibility is the safety and welfare of its own citizens first.

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Just a fanboy passin' through.


Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: July 25 2016 at 03:39
Originally posted by npjnpj npjnpj wrote:

This is a nice sentiment, and I wish it were true.
I agree that social conditions seem to play a vital part, but that's all that I'm in agreement with in your statement.
The way I see it, it is not a matter of ethnic background or nationality, this seems to be entirely religious-driven. It transcends countries, borders and ethnic groups. It's almost ethereal.
I can't even remember when or if I last heard of a Christian, Hindu, or Buddhist rampage.


that's because of the media selection. do you know that there were 5 terrorist attacks by catholic anti-abortionists in 2015 in the USA alone? (arson in California, Illinois, Washington and Louisiana, three people killed and nine injured in a shooting in Colorado)? probably not; crimes by fanatic Catholics are just not the big headlines; a crime by someone of Islamic faith just gets more attention


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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta


Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: July 25 2016 at 03:43
I think the Ansbach attacker had been treated for mental illness, not that that's an excuse for doing what he did, but may explain it more so than straight forward Islamic extremist ideology. We don't know the full background of this individual, and we're getting to the point now where terrorist attacks are so frequent across Europe that the media is going to have to start putting controls on how they report such events because of the effect it will have on the support of far right groups and a bloody and uncontrollable backlash.

If things keep going this way we will be in a situation where everyone will have to go through scanners or pat downs before going into a shopping mall. No one will want to go to music festivals out of fear. If we get to that point then the war is over, and will have been won, but not by Europe or the US.

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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!


Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: July 25 2016 at 04:10
Yep, I'd read that he had mental health issues. Far right groups will grow in power, I think that's unavoidable, and I do think that there will be a violent, uncontrollable backlash. Problem with such ideology is that it preys on those (or appeals to) who are weak-minded, maladjusted, and have mental health problems, such as in the case of the schizophrenic nanny in Russia who beheaded her ward and carried it around in the streets inspired by watching ISIS beheadings and told journalists that Allah had ordered her to behead the girl.

I'd like to think that we're moving more and more into a rational society that is outgrowing superstition and hatreds, but it's feeling less rational by the day. The climate's being destroyed, extremism of different forms is on the rise, these are dark days, but I have hope for the future.

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Just a fanboy passin' through.


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 25 2016 at 04:24
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

I think the Ansbach attacker had been treated for mental illness, not that that's an excuse for doing what he did, but may explain it more so than straight forward Islamic extremist ideology. We don't know the full background of this individual, and we're getting to the point now where terrorist attacks are so frequent across Europe that the media is going to have to start putting controls on how they report such events because of the effect it will have on the support of far right groups and a bloody and uncontrollable backlash.

If things keep going this way we will be in a situation where everyone will have to go through scanners or pat downs before going into a shopping mall. No one will want to go to music festivals out of fear. If we get to that point then the war is over, and will have been won, but not by Europe or the US.
Isn't all violent fanaticism mental illness?


Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: July 25 2016 at 04:32
who defines what mental illness is? you could for example argue that building and keeping an arsenal of nuclear weapons is a sign of mental illness, so all responsible for building and keeping them, in essence the reigning politicians of states that keep them and anyone involved in selling or manufacturing them is mentally insane


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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta


Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: July 25 2016 at 04:37
Originally posted by npjnpj npjnpj wrote:

This is a nice sentiment, and I wish it were true.
I agree that social conditions seem to play a vital part, but that's all that I'm in agreement with in your statement.
The way I see it, it is not a matter of ethnic background or nationality, this seems to be entirely religious-driven. It transcends countries, borders and ethnic groups. It's almost ethereal.
I can't even remember when or if I last heard of a Christian, Hindu, or Buddhist rampage.



Well, in Europe, Buddhists and Hindus are not exactly wide audiences and I can't say they look very violent.
But the Muslim minority in Burma (the Rohingyas), sometimes described as the most persecuted minority in the world, is suffering an intense campaign of violence led by... a Buddhist monk...
Also, the violences between Muslims and Hindus in India are quite intense and I'm not sure it's all the fault of the Muslims...


Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: July 25 2016 at 04:49
Then I suppose we can agree on the assumption that religion in general seems to lie at the root of the problem.
So now what?


Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: July 25 2016 at 05:04
Originally posted by npjnpj npjnpj wrote:

Then I suppose we can agree on the assumption that religion in general seems to lie at the root of the problem.
So now what?


Well, nothing. Lunch time, I guess?


Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: July 25 2016 at 05:11
Originally posted by CPicard CPicard wrote:

Originally posted by npjnpj npjnpj wrote:

Then I suppose we can agree on the assumption that religion in general seems to lie at the root of the problem.
So now what?


Well, nothing. Lunch time, I guess?


A tricky one, but for a start I wish that somehow without too much backlash to bear, states would stop funding religious schools and subsidizing religions. If the kids aren't so inculcated and are exposed to different peoples, then they'll be less predisposed to prejudice and be more open to different ideas. In Northern Ireland, I think things might have been a lot better if instead of the protestant kids going to one school and the Catholics another, they had gone to school together. Ghettoization should be discouraged too as much as possible/ feasible.

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Just a fanboy passin' through.


Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: July 25 2016 at 05:21
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

I think the Ansbach attacker had been treated for mental illness, not that that's an excuse for doing what he did, but may explain it more so than straight forward Islamic extremist ideology. We don't know the full background of this individual, and we're getting to the point now where terrorist attacks are so frequent across Europe that the media is going to have to start putting controls on how they report such events because of the effect it will have on the support of far right groups and a bloody and uncontrollable backlash.

If things keep going this way we will be in a situation where everyone will have to go through scanners or pat downs before going into a shopping mall. No one will want to go to music festivals out of fear. If we get to that point then the war is over, and will have been won, but not by Europe or the US.

Isn't all violent fanaticism mental illness?


Isn't all religious faith, fanatical or otherwise a form of mental illness?



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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!


Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: July 25 2016 at 05:35
Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

Originally posted by npjnpj npjnpj wrote:


<p ="msonormal"="">This is a nice sentiment, and I wish it were true.

I agree that social conditions seem to play a vital part, but that's all that
I'm in agreement with in your statement.

The way I see it, it is not a matter of ethnic background or nationality, this
seems to be entirely religious-driven. It transcends countries, borders and
ethnic groups. It's almost ethereal.

I can't even remember when or if I last heard of a Christian, Hindu, or Buddhist
rampage.



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that's because of the media selection. do you know that there were 5 terrorist attacks by catholic anti-abortionists in 2015 in the USA alone? (arson in California, Illinois, Washington and Louisiana, three people killed and nine injured in a shooting in Colorado)? probably not; crimes by fanatic Catholics are just not the big headlines; a crime by someone of Islamic faith just gets more attention


The problem is religious psychosis generally. The Islam vs the west situation is largely manufuctured IMO. I thought maybe it was because we needed an enemy to justify military spending and increased surveillance, but then I realised that NATO is also amassing forces along Russia's borders so maybe the Islamic thing is a distraction from a far bigger event that is still to come, and that Muslims and westerners alike are simply cattle and pawns being played off against each other in the meantime to keep us all looking the other way.

How's that for paranoia?

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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!


Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: July 25 2016 at 05:42
Education and integration would be the main points, I would have thought, but there are two problems with this.
Education takes time, not to mention the conflicts concerning the ethnic backgrounds this would evoke. Education is not regarded as a desirable trait; hard work and manual labour is. That is my conclusion from numerous conversations I've held.
Integration, though, is an even more difficult point.
As we are focusing on Germany at the moment: foreign groups of varying backgrounds arrived in Germany during the middle sixties to help with the work force required at the time. Many went back after several years, but many stayed. With fault lying on both sides, it has to be concluded that large-scale integration has ..... not ..... worked! Even after more than 50 years. This can be witnessed in every German city. The ethnic and religious differences seem just too pronounced.
The refugees who have now entered the country come from regions and backgrounds that are even further removed from western culture than the work forces of the 60s were.
I'm at a complete loss now because if, as I surmise, education and integration would be the factors most likely to help, they are met with resistance on both sides.
But someone had better do something, because otherwise we'll never be safe again.


Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: July 25 2016 at 05:45
@Blacksword: I like conspiracy theories as much as the next man, and nothing is out of the question, but one thing at a time, perhaps?


Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: July 25 2016 at 07:52
Originally posted by npjnpj npjnpj wrote:

Then I suppose we can agree on the assumption that religion in general seems to lie at the root of the problem.
So now what?

I do not agree with that.


Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: July 25 2016 at 08:32
Thank goodness for that. Neither do I.


Posted By: jayem
Date Posted: July 25 2016 at 09:28
Faith in any doctrine encouraging violence whatsoever, whether religious or not, is an excellent vehicle to justify acts of violence. As for religious books, peace-seekers will find verses backing their views, and  warmongers will find motivation in other verses.

If a killer thinks God has decided to get rid of part of His Creation, and God wants to make use of him, it will feel great to the killer to be God's agent; or if he feels bad (maybe on behalf of others) and wants other people to taste similar unwellness, he'll invoke God's punishment for degenerate morality, sins, laziness or whatever reasons. If he goes to war and knows probability of killing civilians is high, he may trust God takes care of everything and have no worry about soul salvation.
If he's an Atheist he may want to "clean" as much as he can, the World from uninteresting, polluting, etc dwellers, or maybe he craves to feeling powerful and strong, and it feels strong when you take others' lives.

Now how others' life / health become worthless, and how those lethal faiths grow from and how they mature, leads us to investigate life drive vs death drive working in various situations.

The Munich case doesn't need be driven by mental disease of genetic kind, since it seems to have stemmed from bullying experiment, typically violence endured by people whom one notices too much for one's taste, hence a discomfort and an uncool tag. Apparently one who tries to settle uncoolness problems with the use of violence deserves at least as much a confrontation with relationship experts (or psys)  than their uncool victim.

Typically, any victim of bullying should be given as models people with a similar "aura" who have managed to find a posture that gets them either unnoticed, or noticed but for a good reason.

However unlikely it is that things may calm down, the single process of getting in touch with haters (found around any hot political/war topic) of all kind and challenging their views on the net should end up bringing some more peace on a general level.



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http://www.digger.ch/?lang=en" rel="nofollow - Support mine-clearing !
https://bandcamp.com/machinechance/?lang=en" rel="nofollow - bandcamp collection


Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: July 25 2016 at 10:27
Originally posted by A Person A Person wrote:

Originally posted by npjnpj npjnpj wrote:

Then I suppose we can agree on the assumption that religion in general seems to lie at the root of the problem.
So now what?

I do not agree with that.


Neither do I. It is a simplistic, albeit understandable, reaction to a problem the Western world is facing across the board. The liberal view of a pluralistic, content, diverse, integrated society fed by mass immigration is falling apart at the seams. What we have, instead, are poverty stricken ghettos, cultures who do not seem to want to integrate, with a indigenous population scared witless with wages and living standards driven down by mass corporate efforts to drive down wages and living standards fuelled by aforesaid mass immigration.

The perfect cocktail for nut cases of all shapes and sizes to prosper, be they religiously motivated, or politically motivated, and certainly manipulated like marionettes on strings by powerful forces seeking to hate and divide.

Western democracies have singularly failed to deal with these issues successfully. Intervention in parts of the world where we had no business interfering have merely fanned the flames.

We are living, I believe, on the cusp of extremely serious times which pose an existential threat to our societies. How we deal with this will define this era in future times.

A lot more love, tolerance, and understanding on all sides would go a long way. We are simply not ready, or mature enough, as a race for this, I am afraid.

Going back to an earlier post, I spend a lot of time in London, Birmingham, and Manchester with work. Every time I use public transport, or walk through built up areas, I feel a great sense of anxiety at what might happen. We cannot carry on like this, but, like most, I do not even begin to know what the answer is.

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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 25 2016 at 10:43
^I agree with your post, Steve. Holding religion totally responsible is a symptom of much bigger problems. I believe you touched on all of them. Brilliant.


Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: July 26 2016 at 02:08
I just saw this video by a woman from my previous home country who is living in Germany. she has a weekly video in which she talks about her life as an American in Munich and her experiences with the German language. I couldn't have put my feelings any better than she does, so here it is:




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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta


Posted By: Roj
Date Posted: July 26 2016 at 07:02
It seems like almost every day there is more heartbreaking news.  I really do despair.




Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: July 26 2016 at 08:34
Next one in a church in Northern France.
Priest dead and one injured.
Terrorist attack confirmed by French authorities.


Posted By: AZF
Date Posted: July 26 2016 at 15:08
I've resigned myself to this never ending. Even military occupying everywhere isn't going to stop this. I can see people rushing to join the Armed Forces in the hope of being friendly to the people walking past, sitting outside cafés. But instead being used to fight another thing like Russia.
I don't want that as much as I don't want these things happening.
But I realise it's still going to happen so don't do it yourself.
Although these are events, let's not forget the fear hype twist factor of television and Newspapers.

R.I.P. All the murdered.


Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: July 28 2016 at 04:59
So, it appears that the murderer was fascinated by Hitler and Breivik and had some racist views about Turks and Arabs (searching for news in English):
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/inland/f-a-z-exklusiv-amoklaeufer-von-muenchen-war-rechtsextremist-14359855.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/inland/f-a-z-exklusiv-amoklaeufer-von-muenchen-war-rechtsextremist-14359855.html
http://www.liberation.fr/planete/2016/07/27/munich-la-piste-du-tireur-raciste-se-precise_1468867" rel="nofollow - http://www.liberation.fr/planete/2016/07/27/munich-la-piste-du-tireur-raciste-se-precise_1468867



Posted By: jayem
Date Posted: July 28 2016 at 09:24
Such shocking stances being highways for people formerly bullied at school

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http://www.digger.ch/?lang=en" rel="nofollow - Support mine-clearing !
https://bandcamp.com/machinechance/?lang=en" rel="nofollow - bandcamp collection



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