Marillion and Me
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Recommendations/Featured albums
Forum Description: Make or seek recommendations and discuss specific prog albums
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=107448
Printed Date: April 26 2024 at 15:12
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Topic: Marillion and Me
Posted By: Ghost Whistler
Subject: Marillion and Me
Date Posted: August 03 2016 at 04:20
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(warning, long winded) Many years ago I had joined a very (we never gigged) amateur band inspired by prog music. It's what really cemented my love of the genre. The two guys I met were very talented but our friendship didn't last and they chucked me out after 18 months. Woe is me. :D Interestingly, the keyboard player was a relative of one of the guys in Marillion. For years (before and after) I had/have a love/hate relationship with that band. This was at the time of Holidays in Eden and he got an andvanced copy of that album prior to release. It didn't impress me. Aside from Splintering Heart and the last couple of songs the rest, IMHO, is dirge. I have always struggled with Hogarth's voice as it sounds like he permanently sings with a cold. The Fish years interested me more at the time, but even then Marillion always seemed close to the golden prog touch, but were never quite there. I've always admired their musicianship, Pete is a superb bassist and Ian is desperately underrated as a very subtle drummer, for example. Fish was never the best singer but they had heart. I never really got on with Misplaced CHildhood as it seemed er self indulgent and depressing. Clutching at Straws has some good tracks, once you remove the dirge like Sugar Mice and the self indulgent 'i'm a romantic poet with a drunk problem' lyric. Season's End is an interesting album, but one of the things that put me off the HOgarth era, was their preference for really naff lyrical concepts. Holloway Girl? The Party? Ugh, sorry. A song about teenage drinking? Really? Not for me. Sunset Town is a great track, Easter is cheesy but solid. After Me is nice, Hooks in You is crap, Uninvited Guest has promise. And so on. So for years I've dabbled with their output post-Eden, but never really got drawn in. People say Brave is really good and I'm giving it a listen right now. It seems interesting. I tried Afraid of Sunlight, but struggled. They have moments of greatness but always seem to sink into mediocrity. The last album I listened to was (iirc) Marbles. I couldn't get on with much of it. It seemed bland. Fantastic PLace has a nice vibe, but the lyric again is awful "you can screw a man down till he turns to drinking". Hogarth Marillion has this propensity for this kind of naff lyric and, probably quite unfairly, it puts me off. What think you, good people of the Archives? What am I mssing? Help me appreciate the boys from Canterbury. Do people here even like Marillion? |
Replies:
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: August 03 2016 at 04:28
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I feel somewhat similarly regarding Hogarth's vocals and shutter to think that so many contemporary PROG bands (bands who label themselves as such) employ the same kind of singing. Then again, maybe the majority of prog fans enjoy them? Btw I see you span Marbles but did you listen to the "bonus track" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qx5dzaYrcoQ" rel="nofollow - Ocean Cloud , which is easily the best thing they've ever done since Fish left? ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Ghost Whistler
Date Posted: August 03 2016 at 04:39
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I don't recall which version of the album I listened to, it was pre spotify. I'm currently listening to them using Spotify (which I hate, but what are you going to do?) I'm giving Brave a tentative thumbs up with a view to purchase as it's cheap and I've been buying a lot of prog (metal) recently). Somewhere in mya ttic I have cassettes of Clutching and Fugazi as well as Spirit on record (iirc). I have neither a record or cassette player. Funny old world. I think I have the BSides album as well, i liked Cinderalla Search, Freaks, and Charting the Single. Lady Nina was kinda silly and I never got into Grendel. I nver liked Fish's solo work. He's not a great singer and he's also one of those solo vocalist types that needs a band to work (I'm looking at you Mr Jon Anderson). One thing I've always admired about Marillion though is their fanbase who seem to have enabled them to continue and thrive. THat's really inspiring. Somewhere I have a cassette with a few tracks record on 4 track I did with those guys I met. It's a bit presumptious to even call ourselves a band, but it was good times. I think my problem with Hogarth era can be summed up as being low concept. I LOVE high concept music. THat's what i've always struggled with when people criticise prog: all they moan about is what I love about it. I want to hear about wizards dragons or robots, or interesting real world stuff (like Dark Side of the Moon). Songs about teenage kids drinking cider? No, just no. |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: August 03 2016 at 04:50
'It's a bit presumptuous to even call ourselves a band'   I think we all know that feeling. Never got into Grendel? I love that tune - even with the 'not-quite-up-to-par-drumming' from monsieur Pointer and the abnormally shrieky vocals from the Fish. I have a large collection of tapes that never really get played either...but maybe that could be rectified with a tape deck? I say this a couple of times each year but I'm no closer now to getting one as I was 5 years ago.------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Meltdowner
Date Posted: August 03 2016 at 04:54
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^ I have three working tape decks but only one cassette About Marillion, did you try Script or Fugazi?
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Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: August 03 2016 at 05:10
Sorta like having one pineapple ring to go with three plates. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Meltdowner wrote:Posted By: Ghost Whistler
Date Posted: August 03 2016 at 05:15
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Posted By: Ghost Whistler
Date Posted: August 03 2016 at 05:16
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Script is a bt of a stiff effort (blame the drummer), but it's decent enough. Fugazi is better, but i always skipped She Chameleon. I think I'm more interested in getting to appreciate the Hogarth stuff. |
Posted By: Ghost Whistler
Date Posted: August 03 2016 at 05:30
I have a lot of stuff on record - my Yes collection for starters - and casette, but I can't be bothered buying a taoe deck. Sooner or later I'll get them on cd. |
Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: August 03 2016 at 05:51
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With Fish? Pretenders to the throne. And Ian Mosley works for me. ------------- "It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: August 03 2016 at 08:54
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Hi, Kinda sad to hear things said about FISH here, and unlike PG, Fish is more of an actor than he is a singer, in the style of the Descamps in the ANGE's best years. It's about the acting, not the singing, and I am not sure why rock'n'rollers are afraid of acting, as if everything has to be just like Stairway to PBJ sandwiches! Or even Meatloaf, who says he is an actor that sings! Marillion, is a nice band, and be it progressive or not, over the years they have distinguished themselves and stuck together and done some nice things, and never surrendered to the "pop" side of things in progressive, by becoming more metal sounding and the like. Acting in the rock music context, is something that a few folks do, and do it well, and David Bowie was well known for it, Bryan Ferry, and many others whose artistic bend stretched way past the rock'n'roll teen age idea and concept of music. Hard to believe what we're criticizing here, and what is being compared to in regards to FISH. I really thought that we were much more "progressive" and "understanding" than we really are? Please tell me it's not true! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: August 03 2016 at 09:01
Everyone for themselves, here there and everywhere. f**king depressing, isn't it? ------------- |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: August 03 2016 at 09:34
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I guess it's only ok when Mosh takes a dump on contemporary music/artists. When others do it it's killing the music...yet when the maestro pulls out all the stops and bashes pretty much every modern artists out there for not being Djam Karet, it is a-ok. Funny how these things work. It is perfectly feasible to discuss music - even the stuff others like or dislike. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Ghost Whistler
Date Posted: August 03 2016 at 10:15
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I have just found Fish's solo output to be lacking. He's an ok singer, but that was always the case. I'm sorry if those preferences don't meet your own, but variety is the spice of life as they say :D I just listened to (almost all of) Season's End again. It's a decent album with a pretty good vibe as quite a few records of that period did. The title track never deserved the hate it got. Even Holloway Girl isn't as offensive as it used to be, aside from the cheesy chorus. Hooks in YOu can die in a fire though, utter bilge. |
Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: August 03 2016 at 11:22
Absolutely, as long as we don't go back to the glorious devilizing PA years. Respect, gentlemen.  ------------- |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: August 03 2016 at 12:31
Those were the Dream Theater days...ha!! In some ways the devilizing still exists here. OP, seems you are trying very hard to "like" Marillion because pretty much you are describing them as a so-so band in your eyes. If you are trying to find something you like about them it seems to me you have covered the albums that most people like and enjoy about Marillion. I have zero issues with H's voice or style, for me it fits the music well. As did Fish's voice in the early Marillion years.....I have never felt like I needed to find something in a band I liked, to me there are so many bands out there that I can spend my time trying to find one that appeals to me quicker. Marillion for me is easily a top 10 band in my 40+ years of listening to music. -------------   
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Posted By: Ghost Whistler
Date Posted: August 03 2016 at 12:49
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This convo got a bt weird. I'm not trying to put down other people's preferences, just speak to my own. If you enjoy Fish's solo output or Marillion's impressive ouevre then more power to you. They are a band I would love to like for a variety of genuine reasons, but their output since the mid nities has me struggling. I've ordered BRave and Afraid of Sunlight. But I can't get into This Strange Engine Onwards, though I need to give Marbles another listen and their more recent work. I have Seasons End on casette somewhere, but I'll try and find a CD copy for my collection. It would be good to have more homegrown prog in there. But I won't be buying Holidays in Eden, though currently I can't get Dry Land out of my bloody head! I even brought a second hand copy of Hogarth's solo band from before he joined, which had Dry Land on it. |
Posted By: Ghost Whistler
Date Posted: August 03 2016 at 13:01
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Posted By: Blinkyjoh
Date Posted: August 03 2016 at 13:50
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Dry Land is catchy! Now i have it. I don't think you are missing anything. You tried them, and some you like, some/most you don't like. Not everything will appeal. And being prog(related), sometimes the music will take 2 or 3 or 12 listens to hit you. If the band doesn't excite you move on there is lotsa stuff on here you might like more. Maaaybe Gazpacho? Riverside? If you want to keep trying and aren't generally a fan of the lyrics, but you like Rothery's guitar, i'd suggest Rothery-Ghosts of Pripyat. I might listen to that tonight. But Maybe you could also give If My Heart Was a Ball and Invisible Man another chance. You're Gone is like Dry Land for catchiness imho :) |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: August 03 2016 at 14:15
No worries....don't take my reply in the wrong context. I'm not dissing you for "dismissing" Marillion, I am not taking your comments that way. I was merely pointing out it seems you are trying hard to "like" a band. I don't think most people like all albums a band puts out, especially when the catalog is as extensive as Marillion's. Take the albums you like and enjoy them....I don't listen to Holidays/Eden on purpose, it pops up on a shuffle play and that's about it for me. -------------
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Posted By: BunBun
Date Posted: August 03 2016 at 15:57
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Honestly, it sounds like you have gone through a big chunk of their catalog. I personally have failed to get into the band, and, like you, tried and tried. The one album I seem to really enjoy is Clutching at Straws, but, alas, that is when the band up and ditched Fish (just when things were getting good) and moved on with H. Post Fish Marillion has some good songs here and there but I haven't really enjoyed any of the albums. Anyways, there is something about Marillion that makes them appealing, which is why I spent a good amount of time on them (even returning to a few albums this past month) but at some point, you gotta admit when something isn't your thing. |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: August 03 2016 at 22:41
Actually, Jose, I am sure that what you meant to say was people who don't "get", or like, Marillion need to be forcibly taken away by the men in white costs and subjected to a period of reeducation  ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: August 03 2016 at 23:40
Clearly you understood my code.....  -------------
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Posted By: Ghost Whistler
Date Posted: August 04 2016 at 08:06
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Ok, so i now own Seasons End (cheap), Brave, and Afraid of Sunlight. Hooray for cheap labour on Amazon :D :( (it's not really a good thing, they are an awful company). Sounds That Can't Be Made sounds promising. Maybe the new album won't suck as bad as the title makes it sound. |
Posted By: Ghost Whistler
Date Posted: August 04 2016 at 11:45
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I must say AoS is quite impressive, taking into account the subject matter. The Phil Spector pastiche is quite a bold move creatively. I was sure Beautiful was a cover, but apparently not (unless there's another band with the same members). |
Posted By: RoeDent
Date Posted: August 04 2016 at 12:00
| Don't get the hate for Hooks in You, tbh. It's a thrilling rocker of a track. |
Posted By: Ghost Whistler
Date Posted: August 05 2016 at 14:15
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Weird coincedence. My friend got married today and Lavender was one of the songs played at the ceremony. |
Posted By: CapnBearbossa
Date Posted: August 05 2016 at 17:02
I have always liked Marillion foremost among neo prog bands, and I like the Hogarth era about as much as the Fish era, with caveats. "H"-era is possibly less even in terms of quality, and I think you're right that the lyrics by Fish were generally better. So, ... going in with a knowledge things will run a little hot-and-cold, it's better to start with an album with a more consistent quality and feel throughout. I personally like Anoraknophobia and took to it right away. A little bit skewed toward the pop end of the spectrum, but by this point the boys were pretty vocal about wanting to ditch their status as a "prog-band" as they felt it no longer described them anyway. Marbles was a slog at first, but once I saw what they were trying to do with it (emulate a sort of psychedelic Beatles/Pink Floyd hybrid style for one album ) I eased up and liked it much better.Controversially: I liked the Marbles follow-up "Somewhere Else" quite a bit and thought it was strong and quite original (especially for a band sometimes accused of aping various other bands). Your mileage may vary. ------------- Will higher mighty force redeem the one who dropped the moral compass, failed to fulfill the dream? -Ian Anderson |
Posted By: Ghost Whistler
Date Posted: August 06 2016 at 16:20
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I picked up that cheap copy of Misplaced Childhood today. |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: August 06 2016 at 17:43
| Despite all the 'inconsistencies' the H-era holds, I find their blend of Rock-Pop-Indie-Prog sits fine with me. Sure, I love when they stretch the compositions out and do what they do best, but there's a lot of wit and cleverness put into the more direct tunes that I still admire a lot. It took me a long time to warm to after the superb Fish years though. |
Posted By: Ghost Whistler
Date Posted: August 07 2016 at 12:16
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If the songs are good, that's all I care about. But post - Sunlight, i think they struggle a bit, more than a bit actually. I'm not oeverly keen to get back into Script or Fugazi though. I enjoyed those albums in the past, but Misplaced onwards show a greater maturity. MC has an interesting vibe I'd forgotten was there (been years since i listened to it) and is most certainly a product of its time, like all good records. Interestingly the music is much more stripped back. Straws continues this, but has a couple more naff tracks with too much lyrical emphasis on drink and drugs. By the time we get to Torch Song, we've heard plenty on the topic as it is. Sugar Mice and Incommunicado can go though. The latter has an interesting intro and outro, but i've heard it way too many times, and the live version on La Gazza I didn't like. Whiule I really like Mosley's drumming, he has this annoying habit of ending every song, regardless of mood, with a 'da dum' drum fill. |
Posted By: Ghost Whistler
Date Posted: August 09 2016 at 12:56
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Just ordered Clutching At Straws. I rather like Going Under. Could care less about the demos of post CaS material, or Fish's solo career (except Shadowplay and Credo) |