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The Camel appreciation thread

Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
Forum Description: Discuss specific prog bands and their members or a specific sub-genre
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=107825
Printed Date: December 12 2018 at 01:53
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Topic: The Camel appreciation thread
Posted By: Kingsnake
Subject: The Camel appreciation thread
Date Posted: September 14 2016 at 06:44
A lot of small topics about Camel, but not one single appreciation-thread for this awesome band.
 
To kick it off, my top 5 albums:
1. The Snow Goose (both studio albums and the live-version on A Live Record)
2. Mirage (my first prog-album)
3. Rain Dances (i love the autumn-feel to it)
4. Nude (excellent)
5. Moonmadness (another flawless album)
 
My top 5 (instrumental) songs:
1. La Princesse Perdue
2. Rhayader/Rhayader Goes to Town
3. Skylines (the best fusion/prog instrumental I know)
4. Lunar Sea (2nd best fusion/prog instrumental I know)
5. Fritha Alone (one of the most beautiful piano pieces I know)
 
My top 5 songs with vocals:
1. Lady Fantasy
2. Never Let Go
3. Drafted
4. The White Rider
5. Echoes
 
Top 5 line-up:
1. Bardens/Latimer/Ferguson/Ward
2. Bardens/Latimer/Sinclair/Ward/Collins
3. Latimer/Bass/Clement/Leblanc
4. Latimer/Bass/Stewart/Scherpenzeel
5. Latimer/Bass/Hart/Scherpenzeel/Clement
 
Top 4 bassplayers:
1. Colin Bass
2. Doug Ferguson
3. Richard Sinclair
4. David Paton
 
Top 5 keyboardists:
1. Peter Bardens
2. Ton Scherpenzeel
3. Guy Leblanc
4. Kit Watkins
5. Jan Schelhaas
 
Top 5 drummers:
1. Andy Ward
2. Denis Clement
3. Dave Stewart
4. Simon Phillips (on Sasquatch)
5. Paul Burgess
 
Top 5 vocalists:
1. Andy Latimer (yes!)
2. Richard Sinclair
3. Colin Bass
4. Peter Bardens
5. Guy Leblanc (on The Paris Collection)


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Replies:
Posted By: Magnum Vaeltaja
Date Posted: September 14 2016 at 09:36
Camel was one of the first bands that really got me into exploring prog so they'll always have a special place in my heart. I used to consider their debut, Mirage and Moonmadness to all be masterpieces but in the past few years my feelings towards them have settled a little. I still consider Mirage to be a flawless album, though. 

As far as later Camel, I picked up a vinyl of Rain Dances a while back and listen to it from time to time. Aside from that, the song Echoes from Breathless is a favourite of mine (don't care for the rest of the album) and Rajaz is about as good as it gets for albums released by a band 20+ years after their debut. A little (controversial?) opinion of mine is that the 2013 re-recording of The Snow Goose is far, far superior to the original. 

All in all I'd say that they weren't necessarily one of the best or most consistent classic bands, but they're still a great reference point in the genre and were perhaps one of the best bands of all time for crafting beautiful melodies. I also find that Latimer is the best of the famous prog flautists; he absolutely smokes Anderson and Gabriel.


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when i was a kid a doller was worth ten dollers - now a doller couldnt even buy you fifty cents


Posted By: Kingsnake
Date Posted: September 14 2016 at 10:35
I find the new re-recording of Snow Goose very good. The album sounds really balanced.

The two Snow Gooses are recorded in completely different line-ups and have different arrangments. I never mind a re-recording, if it's done right. I also enjoy Less is More by Marillion (great stuff!).
Sometimes a prefer a live-rendition of a full concept-album, but a studio-re-recording is fine by me.

Back to Camel. I dislike the sterile production of Dust and Dreams and Harbour of Tears, but both albums were played and recorded live in its entirety. You can find them on Never Let Go and Coming of Age. So, the songs and arrangments are great, they just needed a different productional approach.


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Posted By: mechanicalflattery
Date Posted: September 14 2016 at 11:47
Camel and Mirage are definitely flawed but have some really great material. The Snow Goose and Moonmadness are both great. Haven't heard much else (part of Breathless, which was mostly just depressing), although I've been sitting on a copy of Rajaz which I should get to eventually.


Posted By: Darious
Date Posted: September 14 2016 at 11:58
Originally posted by Kingsnake Kingsnake wrote:

3. Rain Dances (i love the autumn-feel to it)
..and quite rightly so, as the album was issued just before the Autumn started


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Posted By: AlanB
Date Posted: September 14 2016 at 12:20
One of my favourite prog bands, although I only really like the albums where Peter Bardens was involved. I saw them live twice - once on the I Can See Your House From Here tour, and the second time was about 15 years ago in a small club in Leicester. My favourite tracks by them are Lady Fantasy, Lunar Sea, Rhyader/Rhyader Goes To Town and the Live Record version of Never Let Go.


Posted By: POTA
Date Posted: September 14 2016 at 15:27
Song Within a Song is one of my favorite songs from any band.


Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: September 14 2016 at 16:15
I've been a huge fan since I heard Never Let Go on FM radio around 1976.  Initially bought the debut and Mirage and was not crazy about them, but I persisted and was rewarded with Snow Goose and Moonmadness.  Pretty much all their albums have something to recommend.  I'm alsio a big fan of "Stationary Traveller", where they really blended prog and new wave effectively.  They struck me as a band with no egos, perhaps because none of them could sing very well but they all tried!  They wrote material that they were able to sing to by and large.  Never saw them live, as they have never toured near where I have lived that I know of.  


Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: September 14 2016 at 17:31
Just to mention a few things...
1) I saw them live three times (all in the eighties) and they were great. Latimer would always put together musicians who really know their trade.
2) The Live Record version of Never Let Go is just so stunning. I love the song anyway but the solos and the rhythm section Ward/Sinclair are as good as it gets.
3) I actually love Breathless. True there's the odd downer on it but it has so much variety and such a positive mood and a number of tracks are among their best - and it's still Sinclair/Ward, I think I'm addicted to them.
4) "They struck me as a band with no egos" - not too sure about this, at least after Bardens departed, I think Latimer was clearly the boss and would make use of this position.


Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: September 14 2016 at 21:46
I really like the first era. I have "Mirage" and "Moonmadness", plus "A Live Record" with the whole "Snow Goose", so I don't feel the urge to get the studio album. I got some bonus live tracks from their debut, plus some more tracks from a compilation album, but I guess I should get it at some point. Given the tracks I heard on the compilation, I don't really feel I want albums after Ferguson left... even though the live tracks on A Live Record from the first albums played with Mel Collins do sound great with that added sax.


Posted By: AlanB
Date Posted: September 15 2016 at 03:24
Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Just to mention a few things...

2) The Live Record version of Never Let Go is just so stunning. I love the song anyway but the solos and the rhythm section Ward/Sinclair are as good as it gets.

I agree. I'd also like to say that Mel Collins' additions to this and other songs on that album take them to another level.

Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:


3) I actually love Breathless. True there's the odd downer on it but it has so much variety and such a positive mood and a number of tracks are among their best - and it's still Sinclair/Ward, I think I'm addicted to them. 


I like Breathless too. Apart from the "bunnies are bouncing" song which is a bit twee, there's some great stuff on there. Echoes, Summer Lightning and the title track especially.


Posted By: Flight123
Date Posted: September 15 2016 at 03:59
Great band - I first saw them live on the 'I Can See Your House..' tour (the line up with Kit Watkins) and then the 'Nude' tour (Andy Ward's last with the band).  Then I saw them last year and they were fantastic!


Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: September 15 2016 at 05:50
One of the best live concerts I saw was in about 1988 by a strange world music band called 3 Mustaphas 3 with a certain Sabah Habas Mustapha on bass. Who was nobody else than...?


Posted By: Tuzvihar
Date Posted: September 15 2016 at 14:46
^ Colin Bass. Smile


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Posted By: noni
Date Posted: September 15 2016 at 15:16
I love this band!  Period!!!!...... Smile


Posted By: noni
Date Posted: September 15 2016 at 15:18
Originally posted by Tuzvihar Tuzvihar wrote:

^ Colin Bass. Smile

He's cool too!..  Plays an awesome bass as well!...Big smile


Posted By: Quinino
Date Posted: September 15 2016 at 15:46
When, as a young boy around 14, I listened for the first time to the Snow Goose LP in a friend friend's home, my immature musical taste underwent a profound  (and irreversible) earthquake, whose effects last to this day.

I love the music and have a huge respect and admiration of Andy, whom I had the pleasure to see live only 2 times, but can remember both very vividly (almost 30 years apart, just imagine).

The 4 albums from the 90's are for me just as good as those from the 70's everybody loves - do yourselves a favor and go listen to Rajaz, Dust & Dreams or A Nod & A Wink, great music all around (don't expect it to be the same sound as before, but then there's Andy...)


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Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching.


Posted By: Kingsnake
Date Posted: September 16 2016 at 01:49
A Nod and a Wink is really recommended.
 
Camel sounds more like a band, and it's almost retro-sounding.
 
Dust and Dreams and Harbour of Tears suffer from a sterile production and a depressing mood (altough i like it)
Rajaz sounds like a guitarplayer's solo-album. Heavy progressive rock with lots and lots of guitar.
 
Nod and a Wink is the first album in years to feature two vocalists, lots of flute, lots and lots of orchestral keybaords, even drumsolos. It could have been the album that followed Moonmadness.


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Posted By: O666
Date Posted: September 16 2016 at 03:14
I am a huge fan of Camel. Unfortunately Camel is underrated band and I don't know why?!


Posted By: Kingsnake
Date Posted: September 16 2016 at 03:16

Camel is absolutely not underrated.

Who underrates Camel?

Almost anyone into progrock knows the band, and have at least one favorite album.
I really don't like the term 'underrated'.


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Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: September 16 2016 at 03:24
Originally posted by O666 O666 wrote:

I am a huge fan of Camel. Unfortunately Camel is underrated band and I don't know why?!
With Mirage at 17, Moonmadness 19th and The Snow Goose in 50th place on PA's user generated top 100 who exactly is it that underrates them? Rock journalists? Punks? Adolescents? They're surely not underrated by prog fans. 


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Posted By: O666
Date Posted: September 16 2016 at 03:24
Hi. I talk about my opinion and I stand on it. I mean they MUST have more fans. Camel have many "Masterpieces" but they don't have many fans! I don't want to fight about "Underrated" word!  


Posted By: Kingsnake
Date Posted: September 16 2016 at 03:26
Sure, you can have your opinion. But when you put your opinion in a forum, you have to understand that not anybody agrees.

If you don't wat to dicuss your opinion, don't put in a forum.

I still absolutely don't agree that Camel is underrated.


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Posted By: O666
Date Posted: September 16 2016 at 03:39
Thanks for teaching me about "Forum" ! I said I don't want to fight about Underrated word BUT I stand on my opinion. I love Camel so much and I wrote my opinion under "The Camel Appreciation Thread" topic. You can't push me out  because of my opposite opinion. 


Posted By: Kingsnake
Date Posted: September 16 2016 at 03:45
I was not looking for a fight, and I don't understand your hostility.
Maybe we just have to stop this conversation, so maintain the peace, adn talk about Camel's music.


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Posted By: O666
Date Posted: September 16 2016 at 03:45
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Originally posted by O666 O666 wrote:

I am a huge fan of Camel. Unfortunately Camel is underrated band and I don't know why?!
With Mirage at 17, Moonmadness 19th and The Snow Goose in 50th place on PA's user generated top 100 who exactly is it that underrates them? Rock journalists? Punks? Adolescents? They're surely not underrated by prog fans. 
Thanks. As you said "The Snow Goose in 50th place on ...". Why 50th? 50th place is a fair place for "The Snow Goose" in your opinion but I don't think like you. This mean there are 49 albums that better than "The Snow Goose". I really like to know about those 49 albums! 



Posted By: O666
Date Posted: September 16 2016 at 03:50
Originally posted by Kingsnake Kingsnake wrote:

I was not looking for a fight, and I don't understand your hostility.
Maybe we just have to stop this conversation, so maintain the peace, adn talk about Camel's music.
Agree. This may make misunderstanding (my English isn't good enough I guess!). We love Camel and this is important. Thumbs Up 


Posted By: Kingsnake
Date Posted: September 16 2016 at 04:08
I think that a lot of progrockbands have better vocalists than Camel; Yes, King Crimson, Genesis, Pink Floyd etc.
Maybe that's why the albums are rated slightly lower than others.

On the other hand, Camel never had a hitsingle, as with other bands, they all had 1 or more hitsucces.


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Posted By: O666
Date Posted: September 21 2016 at 08:09
Hi. Now you can compare this thread with another "Appreciation Threads" like BJH (another great band) that you made it. I really love BJH or "The Flower Kings" or ... 
Honestly , I don't know why . You mentioned to a very good point about Vocalists. Vocals is important and I agree with you but it's can't be "The Only" reason. Camel create great stuffs . They have many Masterpieces. Their music is Technical and Emotional . Andy's Guitar sound and style is unique and impressive. BUT they don't have enough! fans. I still stand on my opinion about their fans number (underrated! or something like it).


Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: September 21 2016 at 20:55
There may be many prog bands with better vocalists than Camel... but Camel's vocals have never bothered me. Their limitations can actually make them rather charming. I have heard songs from them (from the 80's, I think) with Chris Rainbow (who I have heard with Alan Parsons Project and really liked how he sang, but didn't really sound the same with Camel anyway), whom I guess most would agree is a better singer than Latimer (Latimer himself would agree, I suppose). However, the songs just don't work, they lost their charm. Actually, I like Camels vocals more than John Wetton's or Peter Gabriel's, and I believe there would be people saying they prefere them over Jon Anderson or Peter Hamill... or even Phil Collins.


Posted By: Magnum Vaeltaja
Date Posted: September 21 2016 at 23:03
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

There may be many prog bands with better vocalists than Camel... but Camel's vocals have never bothered me. Their limitations can actually make them rather charming. I have heard songs from them (from the 80's, I think) with Chris Rainbow (who I have heard with Alan Parsons Project and really liked how he sang, but didn't really sound the same with Camel anyway), whom I guess most would agree is a better singer than Latimer (Latimer himself would agree, I suppose). However, the songs just don't work, they lost their charm. Actually, I like Camels vocals more than John Wetton's or Peter Gabriel's, and I believe there would be people saying they prefere them over Jon Anderson or Peter Hamill... or even Phil Collins.

Honestly, I'm not sure why people really complain about the vocals on the classic Camel records; they give exactly what the music asks for. Could you imagine a voice like Jon Anderson trying to sing The White Rider or Peter Gabriel trying to belt out Song Within A Song? I'm laughing just thinking about how ridiculous that would sound. Latimer is a perfect singer for the band. His voice is every bit as smooth and subdued as the music he sings on top of.


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when i was a kid a doller was worth ten dollers - now a doller couldnt even buy you fifty cents


Posted By: Kingsnake
Date Posted: September 22 2016 at 01:41
I'm just stating what I overheard people complaining about.

I myself am a huge fan of the Andy's voice (and Colin's aswell).
To be honest, there's a certain style to their voices.
When you don't know wich bandmember sings wich song, it's hard to tell if Doug, Peter or Andy is singing (on Camel or Moonmadness).

The same goes for Nude. Is it Andy or Colin singing? Hard to say.

Richard Sinclair was a nice vocalist for the band on Rain Dances and Breathless, sharing vocals with Andy. It works very well, but didn't bring the band huge success.
The ratings even go down, when compared to the first four albums.
 
You were right about Chris Rainbow. He just didn't fit the band. The same goes for the one-time-only vocals of Doug Patton (on Heroes).
 
Don't get me wrong, I never stated that Andy couldn't sing. I like his warm and soothing voice.


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Posted By: O666
Date Posted: September 22 2016 at 09:45
I am a Camel HUGE fan and ofcourse I like Camel's vocalists . I like to know opinions about :  
Why they don't have big number of fans in PA ?! Many of Progressive Rock fans ignore Camel easily. Many of Prog fans never count Camel as a "Great Band" or "Prog Giant" in Prog history , bands like King Crimson , Genesis , Yes , ELP , Pink Floyd , ... and I don't know WHY?!. 
Camel is not a "Mid Level" band . They are a "High Level" band IMO. They impressed Prog Rock music scene during their career. They deserve to known more than now. 


Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: September 22 2016 at 17:26
I enjoy Camel's vocals overall, as they complement the music.  But I suppose, because of the vocals, they lacked the bombast of Genesis, King Crimson, VDGG, ELP, Gentle Giant, Yes, Tull.  The only huge prog band they compare with vocally might be Floyd, in the sense that Floyd vocals are more blues based and not as dramatic as most of the big 6, 7 or whatever, although Gilmour is technically better than the Andies or Bardens.  

I think it's an exercise in futility to try to figure out why one's favorite bands didn't hit it big.  It's just people's tastes and the effectiveness of the promotion.  If I was to thuink about it, it seems like my liking a band is the kiss of death, because lots of my favorites remained obscure or missed at sustained success while it seems like the bands I didn't care for as much went onward and upward!  But part of that might be that too much success can taint a group, not that they gio downhill, but just that they seem to lose some of that cachet that goes with obscurity.  So enjoy Camel I say, and, if you must, think about how relatively popular they were when compared to anybody but the biggest acts, with something like 9 consecutive albums on the UK album charts, right through 1984, something not many prog bands did, while staying prog


Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: September 22 2016 at 20:50
Originally posted by O666 O666 wrote:

I am a Camel HUGE fan and ofcourse I like Camel's vocalists . I like to know opinions about :  
Why they don't have big number of fans in PA ?! Many of Progressive Rock fans ignore Camel easily. Many of Prog fans never count Camel as a "Great Band" or "Prog Giant" in Prog history , bands like King Crimson , Genesis , Yes , ELP , Pink Floyd , ... and I don't know WHY?!. 
Camel is not a "Mid Level" band . They are a "High Level" band IMO. They impressed Prog Rock music scene during their career. They deserve to known more than now. 


Also you can consider that Camel has beat ELP on polls in this site, and nobody can deny that ELP were one of the biggest prog giants back in the 70's.


Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: September 22 2016 at 22:32
I stumbled on an excellent BBC retrospective show on prog.  OK it's tongue in cheek and ironic at times, poking a bit of fun at the bombast, but it seems to be fondly remembering when prog ruled the waves
It featured 10 British acts, one of which was our Camel (ok, so it was number 10, but still...), apparently based on time in the UK album charts
if you want to go right to Camel, they are around minute 6






Posted By: noni
Date Posted: September 23 2016 at 00:59
Originally posted by Kingsnake Kingsnake wrote:

I'm just stating what I overheard people complaining about.

I myself am a huge fan of the Andy's voice (and Colin's aswell).
To be honest, there's a certain style to their voices.
When you don't know wich bandmember sings wich song, it's hard to tell if Doug, Peter or Andy is singing (on Camel or Moonmadness).

The same goes for Nude. Is it Andy or Colin singing? Hard to say.

Richard Sinclair was a nice vocalist for the band on Rain Dances and Breathless, sharing vocals with Andy. It works very well, but didn't bring the band huge success.
The ratings even go down, when compared to the first four albums.
 
You were right about Chris Rainbow. He just didn't fit the band. The same goes for the one-time-only vocals of Doug Patton (on Heroes).
 
Don't get me wrong, I never stated that Andy couldn't sing. I like his warm and soothing voice.

I would say that the last albums Camel have done since setting up Camel Productions, Andy's voice is the best we've heard from him.  His singing warrants each track from those albums. All 100% Andy's voice.  I'm really surprised how Colin can sing like Andy, as done in most concerts.  He has earned himself the honour on certain tracks being good at what he does.  The pair go well together and while Colin can take all vocal duties to Camel in concerts,  one track will always be Andy's and thats Lady Fantasy.



Posted By: noni
Date Posted: September 23 2016 at 01:11
Originally posted by Magnum Vaeltaja Magnum Vaeltaja wrote:

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

There may be many prog bands with better vocalists than Camel... but Camel's vocals have never bothered me. Their limitations can actually make them rather charming. I have heard songs from them (from the 80's, I think) with Chris Rainbow (who I have heard with Alan Parsons Project and really liked how he sang, but didn't really sound the same with Camel anyway), whom I guess most would agree is a better singer than Latimer (Latimer himself would agree, I suppose). However, the songs just don't work, they lost their charm. Actually, I like Camels vocals more than John Wetton's or Peter Gabriel's, and I believe there would be people saying they prefere them over Jon Anderson or Peter Hamill... or even Phil Collins.

Honestly, I'm not sure why people really complain about the vocals on the classic Camel records; they give exactly what the music asks for. Could you imagine a voice like Jon Anderson trying to sing The White Rider or Peter Gabriel trying to belt out Song Within A Song? I'm laughing just thinking about how ridiculous that would sound. Latimer is a perfect singer for the band. His voice is every bit as smooth and subdued as the music he sings on top of.

I agree, the music and vocalist suit the music.  Like what you said about Jon Anderson and Peter Gabriel  singing on a Camel track, would not work.  Also on those earlier albums they did, it was not all Latimer but Peter Bardens.  They Both shared the same style with those leading vocalist duties.  Peter's singing voice is nothing like his voice in Camel, as  some of you might well know hearing Peter's solo's!...



Posted By: noni
Date Posted: September 23 2016 at 01:43
Originally posted by O666 O666 wrote:

I am a huge fan of Camel. Unfortunately Camel is underrated band and I don't know why?!

Originally posted by Kingsnake Kingsnake wrote:

Camel is absolutely not underrated.

Who underrates Camel?

Almost anyone into progrock knows the band, and have at least one favorite album.
I really don't like the term 'underrated'.

I agree with Kingsnake, while references are often used in rating other bands new music with their reviews in DPRP and on this site Prog/Archives,  you will always see Camel mostly used.   Had Camel been more popular in the 70s and should of been on Top of the Pops or other TV shows as regular guests, I'm sure a lot more people would know more about this band.  Genesis were not that popular, until they kept being seen on TV shows and became world wide success with loads of hits.  The same goes with Yes, King Crimson and ELP.  All these bands had huge hits and appeared on TV shows.  Camel never made a hit and stayed with their albums , they only appeared in 2 common UK shows.  So not being able to have the common radio airing as with the other bands I mentioned.  It's a shame really,  had they made a few hits, Camel would be known by more people and even hear their music on local radio stations.


Posted By: O666
Date Posted: September 23 2016 at 08:03
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by O666 O666 wrote:

I am a Camel HUGE fan and ofcourse I like Camel's vocalists . I like to know opinions about :  
Why they don't have big number of fans in PA ?! Many of Progressive Rock fans ignore Camel easily. Many of Prog fans never count Camel as a "Great Band" or "Prog Giant" in Prog history , bands like King Crimson , Genesis , Yes , ELP , Pink Floyd , ... and I don't know WHY?!. 
Camel is not a "Mid Level" band . They are a "High Level" band IMO. They impressed Prog Rock music scene during their career. They deserve to known more than now. 


Also you can consider that Camel has beat ELP on polls in this site, and nobody can deny that ELP were one of the biggest prog giants back in the 70's.
You right about ELP  Thumbs Up . Perhaps Camel beating ELP in some polls in PA , but its not a good measure IMO. Thanks 


Posted By: Kingsnake
Date Posted: September 23 2016 at 08:07
Originally posted by noni noni wrote:

Originally posted by O666 O666 wrote:

I am a huge fan of Camel. Unfortunately Camel is underrated band and I don't know why?!

Originally posted by Kingsnake Kingsnake wrote:

Camel is absolutely not underrated.

Who underrates Camel?

Almost anyone into progrock knows the band, and have at least one favorite album.
I really don't like the term 'underrated'.

I agree with Kingsnake, while references are often used in rating other bands new music with their reviews in DPRP and on this site Prog/Archives,  you will always see Camel mostly used.   Had Camel been more popular in the 70s and should of been on Top of the Pops or other TV shows as regular guests, I'm sure a lot more people would know more about this band.  Genesis were not that popular, until they kept being seen on TV shows and became world wide success with loads of hits.  The same goes with Yes, King Crimson and ELP.  All these bands had huge hits and appeared on TV shows.  Camel never made a hit and stayed with their albums , they only appeared in 2 common UK shows.  So not being able to have the common radio airing as with the other bands I mentioned.  It's a shame really,  had they made a few hits, Camel would be known by more people and even hear their music on local radio stations.
 
If and when Camel had their top 40-hit with (let's say) Remote Romance or No Easy Answer, what alternative future would have been for the band. Then maybe their label (Decca) would've been happy with the band, and kept them on their roster, only pushing Andy to write more hits (and if not, the label would provide outside writers to produce hits).


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Posted By: O666
Date Posted: September 23 2016 at 08:11
^ Nice shot. I agree.
I want to back to Camel's music. What do you think about ICE ? Do you like it? I really like to know Camel fans opinions about ICE.


Posted By: Kingsnake
Date Posted: September 23 2016 at 08:21
I don't think  Ice is one of the best tracks.
Sometimes I like it, but most of the times it tries to hard. It's even boring. I like Lunar Sea much more, when discussing 10 minute instrumental epics.
 
With Ice, the band set a new standard, and after that Andy wrote more long (low tempo) songs with a long guitarsolo: Lawrence, The Hour Candle, For Today.
I think I like The Hour Candle the best, but the liveversion on Coming of Age.

But rather I like songs with more dynamics and changes like Lunar Sea, Sahara, Chord Change, Liggin' at Louis, Arubaluba, Skylines, etc.


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Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: September 23 2016 at 10:22
Originally posted by Kingsnake Kingsnake wrote:

I don't think  Ice is one of the best tracks.
Sometimes I like it, but most of the times it tries to hard. It's even boring. I like Lunar Sea much more, when discussing 10 minute instrumental epics.
 
With Ice, the band set a new standard, and after that Andy wrote more long (low tempo) songs with a long guitarsolo: Lawrence, The Hour Candle, For Today.
I think I like The Hour Candle the best, but the liveversion on Coming of Age.

But rather I like songs with more dynamics and changes like Lunar Sea, Sahara, Chord Change, Liggin' at Louis, Arubaluba, Skylines, etc.

I see where you are coming from but I prefer Ice to all of those.  Latimer's technical guitar prowess improved dramatically from their first album to Moonmadness, and Ice is one of the best expressions of that  Ice is not as warm as some of those other tracks you mentioned, but I gather that's intentional given its theme.

I need to go back and listen to Sahara but of the ones you mention I think Chord Changes is the best.  Lunar Sea was the only track on Moonmadness I didn't connect with that well, and it's actually the lead solo towards the end that is the part that works least for me.   I actually prefer the workouts on a few of the Rain Dances and Breathless tracks like "One of these Days I'll get an early Night" or perhaps "Summer Lightning".


Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: September 23 2016 at 15:29
Originally posted by O666 O666 wrote:

I am a Camel HUGE fan and ofcourse I like Camel's vocalists . I like to know opinions about :  
Why they don't have big number of fans in PA ?! Many of Progressive Rock fans ignore Camel easily. Many of Prog fans never count Camel as a "Great Band" or "Prog Giant" in Prog history , bands like King Crimson , Genesis , Yes , ELP , Pink Floyd , ... and I don't know WHY?!. 
Camel is not a "Mid Level" band . They are a "High Level" band IMO. They impressed Prog Rock music scene during their career. They deserve to known more than now. 

Don't get me wrong; I love Camel. There's a kind of melancholic, soothing mood or atmosphere to their music that makes them very dear to me. But as to why they may not be considered a "prog giant" in the same sense that King Crimson or Yes undoubtly are - its really no mystery. Debuting in 1973 they were late comers to the scene, three, four maybe five years after the bands that had established the sound and mindset to what we now have come to know as progressive rock. And their music, great as it is didn't really bring anything new to the table. Look to any other genres or musical development throughout history and you'll find the same mechanisms and logic at work. Regardless of what you think of A Love Supreme, Revolver, In The Court..., Bitches Brew or Autobahn, bands and artists inspired by these revolutionary albums won't have the same impact or historical importance. I that light Camel has done really well compared to almost any band comparable that I can think of.




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Posted By: Kingsnake
Date Posted: September 24 2016 at 02:44
I read that in top 10 best selling artists of all time (including Madonna, Michael Jackson and Elvis Presley), there were The Beatles, Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd.

That's remarkable, these bands are all on Progarchives. I surprised me to see, that these bands sold hundreds of millions of albums worlwide. I can't say Camel has that many sales.

What that means is this: when people are new to the genre, they try the bands they know the best, and that will never be Camel (or Gentle Giant or Barclay James Harvest), regardless of their musical talents.

When people are already into progressive rock, of course they now bands like Camel. So is the band underrated? Maybe worldwide, but nog amongst prog-enthousiasts.


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Posted By: Flight123
Date Posted: September 24 2016 at 02:53
I would agree that Camel are highly esteemed in the world of prog while never achieving the album sales of the likes of Yes, etc.  Camel were relative late-comers with their first album being released in 1973.  Here in the UK, Camel were badly exposed by the punk explosion that started by the time 'Moonmadness' appeared although that proved to be their best selling album.


Posted By: O666
Date Posted: September 24 2016 at 10:48
Originally posted by Kingsnake Kingsnake wrote:

I read that in top 10 best selling artists of all time (including Madonna, Michael Jackson and Elvis Presley), there were The Beatles, Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd.

That's remarkable, these bands are all on Progarchives. I surprised me to see, that these bands sold hundreds of millions of albums worlwide. I can't say Camel has that many sales.

What that means is this: when people are new to the genre, they try the bands they know the best, and that will never be Camel (or Gentle Giant or Barclay James Harvest), regardless of their musical talents.

When people are already into progressive rock, of course they now bands like Camel. So is the band underrated? Maybe worldwide, but nog amongst prog-enthousiasts.
Actually I talked about Prog Rock fans not worldwide market or something like it. I mean , they don't have large number of Progressive Rock fans ! IMO they deserve to have more fans in Progressive Rock scene. Perhaps I mistake about it. I compare number of topics about them or related to them in PA forum with another Prog Rock bands like Gentle Giant or BJH . Most of 70's Progressive Rock great bands (Not 6-7 Prog Giants like KC,Yes,Genesis...!) have more fans than Camel. 


Posted By: O666
Date Posted: September 24 2016 at 10:55
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Originally posted by O666 O666 wrote:

I am a Camel HUGE fan and ofcourse I like Camel's vocalists . I like to know opinions about :  
Why they don't have big number of fans in PA ?! Many of Progressive Rock fans ignore Camel easily. Many of Prog fans never count Camel as a "Great Band" or "Prog Giant" in Prog history , bands like King Crimson , Genesis , Yes , ELP , Pink Floyd , ... and I don't know WHY?!. 
Camel is not a "Mid Level" band . They are a "High Level" band IMO. They impressed Prog Rock music scene during their career. They deserve to known more than now. 

Don't get me wrong; I love Camel. There's a kind of melancholic, soothing mood or atmosphere to their music that makes them very dear to me. But as to why they may not be considered a "prog giant" in the same sense that King Crimson or Yes undoubtly are - its really no mystery. Debuting in 1973 they were late comers to the scene, three, four maybe five years after the bands that had established the sound and mindset to what we now have come to know as progressive rock. And their music, great as it is didn't really bring anything new to the table. Look to any other genres or musical development throughout history and you'll find the same mechanisms and logic at work. Regardless of what you think of A Love Supreme, Revolver, In The Court..., Bitches Brew or Autobahn, bands and artists inspired by these revolutionary albums won't have the same impact or historical importance. I that light Camel has done really well compared to almost any band comparable that I can think of.


I'm not agree with you completely. You right about their debuting lately. Till 1973 , Progressive Rock music giants , released some masterpieces and made a new stream of popular Rock music. Camel never be a clone or copy band. They made their own style. Their music is beautiful, Emotional and Technical but they can't found too many fans. There are some Prog Rock bands that start after 1973 and found too many fans more than Camel. 


Posted By: maryes
Date Posted: September 25 2016 at 10:38
One my favorites bands :  
 
My top albums: (in order) 
 
Mirage 
Snow Goose 
Moonmadness 
Nude


Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: September 25 2016 at 14:10
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:


Don't get me wrong; I love Camel. There's a kind of melancholic, soothing mood or atmosphere to their music that makes them very dear to me. But as to why they may not be considered a "prog giant" in the same sense that King Crimson or Yes undoubtly are - its really no mystery. Debuting in 1973 they were late comers to the scene, three, four maybe five years after the bands that had established the sound and mindset to what we now have come to know as progressive rock. And their music, great as it is didn't really bring anything new to the table. Look to any other genres or musical development throughout history and you'll find the same mechanisms and logic at work. Regardless of what you think of A Love Supreme, Revolver, In The Court..., Bitches Brew or Autobahn, bands and artists inspired by these revolutionary albums won't have the same impact or historical importance. I that light Camel has done really well compared to almost any band comparable that I can think of.

Very well explained.
And if we look at the performance in polls at PA, Camel and their albums and songs do extremely well. Camel may lose tightly against Pink Floyd in band vs. band but other than that I've seen them winning all kinds of things here.


Posted By: Pennsylvanian
Date Posted: October 04 2016 at 16:57
I think "Moonmadness" is a masterpiece... though I don't care for predecessor "Snow Goose" at all.  I love the dark 'nocturnal' vibe of "Moonmadness".  


Posted By: Barry L
Date Posted: November 02 2016 at 09:46
I first saw Camel live in 1976 and more or less seen every London gig since, and have every studio album ever recorded. I used to love the early LPs when I first got into them, but as each album was released, thought they were even more majestic. That I would say is up until Stationary Traveller where I witnessed soon after it's release my no.1 gig of all time (by any band), the Hammersmith Odeon concert of 1984. I really like Dust and Dreams too but I think the albums since aren't at the same high standard. There are some excellent individual tracks, however, with the trademark Latimer guitar making them all still enjoyable. My top 3 albums are: I can see your house from here, Nude and Stationary Traveller. Anyone got any news of a new studio album?


Posted By: Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Date Posted: November 02 2016 at 09:55
Listening to `Breathless' right now actually!


Posted By: O666
Date Posted: November 02 2016 at 10:22
I like "Echoes" , "Summer Lightning" and "Down on the Farm" more. 


Posted By: Son.of.Tiresias
Date Posted: December 10 2016 at 02:00
Originally posted by Magnum Vaeltaja Magnum Vaeltaja wrote:

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

There may be many prog bands with better vocalists than Camel... but Camel's vocals have never bothered me. Their limitations can actually make them rather charming. I have heard songs from them (from the 80's, I think) with Chris Rainbow (who I have heard with Alan Parsons Project and really liked how he sang, but didn't really sound the same with Camel anyway), whom I guess most would agree is a better singer than Latimer (Latimer himself would agree, I suppose). However, the songs just don't work, they lost their charm. Actually, I like Camels vocals more than John Wetton's or Peter Gabriel's, and I believe there would be people saying they prefere them over Jon Anderson or Peter Hamill... or even Phil Collins.

Honestly, I'm not sure why people really complain about the vocals on the classic Camel records; they give exactly what the music asks for. Could you imagine a voice like Jon Anderson trying to sing The White Rider or Peter Gabriel trying to belt out Song Within A Song? I'm laughing just thinking about how ridiculous that would sound. Latimer is a perfect singer for the band. His voice is every bit as smooth and subdued as the music he sings on top of.

Exactly. Stiil, I couId imagine Jon Anderson doing a couple of the most beautiful tunes, he did make Paul Simon´s "America" stellar. But Roger Waters singing "Lullabye" ? Ain´t gonna happen ?


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Posted By: scruffydragon
Date Posted: December 10 2016 at 03:08
Camels music inspired by the Snow Goose is the only Prog I can actually remember from my primary school days way back in the 70's.One of our teachers was rather Hip and played this kind of music in PE or when we were getting into art stuff.It wasn't unusual for him to suddenly pull his guitar from the side of his desk and suddenly break into some sort of song/ditty. Such a wonderful teacher. Magical times.
 
It was many years after leaving school that I accidently brought this album at a a car boot sale because I loved the look of the cover and when I played it some wonderful memories of this teacher and primary school came flooding back. It remains to this day my favourite album.Big smile


Posted By: Son.of.Tiresias
Date Posted: December 10 2016 at 07:30
Originally posted by scruffydragon scruffydragon wrote:

Camels music inspired by the Snow Goose is the only Prog I can actually remember from my primary school days way back in the 70's.One of our teachers was rather Hip and played this kind of music in PE or when we were getting into art stuff.It wasn't unusual for him to suddenly pull his guitar from the side of his desk and suddenly break into some sort of song/ditty. Such a wonderful teacher. Magical times.
 
It was many years after leaving school that I accidently brought this album at a a car boot sale because I loved the look of the cover and when I played it some wonderful memories of this teacher and primary school came flooding back. It remains to this day my favourite album.Big smile

"The Snow Goose" is a superb album by any means indeed. It´s a symphony, and of one most succesfull in fusion of a rock group and an symphony orchestra, my top 3 to be exact.

I have similar memories of great music lessons back in the day.

My music teacher, an elder woman played "A Passion Play" in its entirety in a music lesson spring 1974. I was still a kid but I liked the music... Three years later she played "Songs from the Wood", full album again. No interruptions ,no breaks just a brief introduction to the music and artist, nothing else. We missed nothing, she just let the music take over. We kids actually listened to the record without any trouble. I went stunned and became instantly a fan. The best music lesson. What an intelligent and nice person she was. 

She was "The Teacher" Big smile   My fav Tull tune ever since.


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You may see a smile on Tony Banks´ face but that´s unlikely.


Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: December 10 2016 at 20:40
Originally posted by Son.of.Tiresias Son.of.Tiresias wrote:

Originally posted by Magnum Vaeltaja Magnum Vaeltaja wrote:

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

There may be many prog bands with better vocalists than Camel... but Camel's vocals have never bothered me. Their limitations can actually make them rather charming. I have heard songs from them (from the 80's, I think) with Chris Rainbow (who I have heard with Alan Parsons Project and really liked how he sang, but didn't really sound the same with Camel anyway), whom I guess most would agree is a better singer than Latimer (Latimer himself would agree, I suppose). However, the songs just don't work, they lost their charm. Actually, I like Camels vocals more than John Wetton's or Peter Gabriel's, and I believe there would be people saying they prefere them over Jon Anderson or Peter Hamill... or even Phil Collins.


Honestly, I'm not sure why people really complain about the vocals on the classic Camel records; they give exactly what the music asks for. Could you imagine a voice like Jon Anderson trying to sing The White Rider or Peter Gabriel trying to belt out Song Within A Song? I'm laughing just thinking about how ridiculous that would sound. Latimer is a perfect singer for the band. His voice is every bit as smooth and subdued as the music he sings on top of.


Exactly. Stiil, I couId imagine Jon Anderson doing a couple of the most beautiful tunes, he did make Paul Simon´s "America" stellar. But Roger Waters singing "Lullabye" ? Ain´t gonna happen ?



Actually, now that you mention it, I guess it would be hard to imagine Jon Anderson or Gabriel singing these parts... but it came into my mind that perhaps Peter Hamill could do it succesfully. I mean, if he restrained himself from going all over the place with his antics, but he is a really polifacetic singer, and if he sang as in the beginning of Darkness or Plague it might have worked.


Posted By: Kingsnake
Date Posted: June 03 2018 at 04:50
Camel is currently touring Europe (at least two dates in the Netherlands - Utrecht and Den Haag).

In live in Den Haag (The Hague) and I am about to see them in a venue called De Paard, coming tuesday.
I don't consider myself a fanboy, but I'm so excited. I have never been so excited to see a band play live (maybe only My Brightest Diamond, because I have crush on her and Saga, because well it's my favorite band).

But Camel is one of top5 favorite bands and they play Moonmadness in it's entirety, wich is such a great album.
I heard the touring band consists of Andy, Colin, Denis Clement and Pete Jones.

Also Andy has a hernia and his health is not all that great, wich means he will site down during the concert. I think it's very sympathetic that he continues the tour for the fans. Such a great guy, and I wish him the best and I hope he doesn't have too much pain.


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Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: June 03 2018 at 06:29
To me Camel is not the biggest personal favourite, but anyway like quite much the Snow Goose.


Posted By: Tuzvihar
Date Posted: June 03 2018 at 07:20
Originally posted by Kingsnake Kingsnake wrote:

Camel is currently touring Europe (at least two dates in the Netherlands - Utrecht and Den Haag).

In live in Den Haag (The Hague) and I am about to see them in a venue called De Paard, coming tuesday.
I don't consider myself a fanboy, but I'm so excited. I have never been so excited to see a band play live (maybe only My Brightest Diamond, because I have crush on her and Saga, because well it's my favorite band).

But Camel is one of top5 favorite bands and they play Moonmadness in it's entirety, wich is such a great album.
I heard the touring band consists of Andy, Colin, Denis Clement and Pete Jones.

Also Andy has a hernia and his health is not all that great, wich means he will site down during the concert. I think it's very sympathetic that he continues the tour for the fans. Such a great guy, and I wish him the best and I hope he doesn't have too much pain.


I just saw them here in Warsaw yesterday (that was my 2nd time seeing them) and I can assure you that you're in for a treat! And, yes, Andy was sitting on an armchair for the whole gig but he did perform great on the guitar and flute! And Colin was in a great shape too! I also really liked that blind keyboardist/vocalist/saxophonist that was with them (can't recall his name).

This is what Andy said about his illness: "Some of You noticed I'm sitting. It's the first time in 50 years. I had an accident in Japan, then I had an accident in Turkey, then I had a accident in Israel... But I am here anyway!" and the audience cheered him.


And today I'm going to see... Yes (feat ARW) + SBB!


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Posted By: Mirror Image
Date Posted: June 03 2018 at 08:30
Camel are a pretty good band, but I never could get completely onboard with them. Moonmadness continues to be the album that impressed me the most and it’s also the most consistent. When Peter Bardens left, I pretty much stopped listening as I felt that Bardens was a major component in the band’s songwriting.

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“Music is enough for a lifetime but a lifetime is not enough for music.” - Sergei Rachmaninov


Posted By: noni
Date Posted: June 03 2018 at 11:13
Favourite band of all time!...........Smile


Posted By: Kingsnake
Date Posted: June 03 2018 at 11:29
Peter Bardens' organ work and songwriting was great combined with Andy.

But Bardend did a lot of stuff after Camel, wich is not very interesting. So it's more the sum of the parts I guess.

But Andy continued to gather great musicians and songwriters around him, and there are some really great albums in the seventies (Raindances), eighties (Nude and Stationairy Traveller), nineties (Dust and Dreams, Harbour of Tears, Rajaz) and present day (Nod and a Wink).

So to write Camel of after the departure of Bardens, is not a smart move, if you want to discover great progrockmusic :D


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Posted By: Kingsnake
Date Posted: June 03 2018 at 11:31
Originally posted by Tuzvihar Tuzvihar wrote:

Originally posted by Kingsnake Kingsnake wrote:

Camel is currently touring Europe (at least two dates in the Netherlands - Utrecht and Den Haag).

In live in Den Haag (The Hague) and I am about to see them in a venue called De Paard, coming tuesday.
I don't consider myself a fanboy, but I'm so excited. I have never been so excited to see a band play live (maybe only My Brightest Diamond, because I have crush on her and Saga, because well it's my favorite band).

But Camel is one of top5 favorite bands and they play Moonmadness in it's entirety, wich is such a great album.
I heard the touring band consists of Andy, Colin, Denis Clement and Pete Jones.

Also Andy has a hernia and his health is not all that great, wich means he will site down during the concert. I think it's very sympathetic that he continues the tour for the fans. Such a great guy, and I wish him the best and I hope he doesn't have too much pain.


I just saw them here in Warsaw yesterday (that was my 2nd time seeing them) and I can assure you that you're in for a treat! And, yes, Andy was sitting on an armchair for the whole gig but he did perform great on the guitar and flute! And Colin was in a great shape too! I also really liked that blind keyboardist/vocalist/saxophonist that was with them (can't recall his name).

This is what Andy said about his illness: "Some of You noticed I'm sitting. It's the first time in 50 years. I had an accident in Japan, then I had an accident in Turkey, then I had a accident in Israel... But I am here anyway!" and the audience cheered him.


And today I'm going to see... Yes (feat ARW) + SBB!

I don't go to concerts much (personals reasons, no need to elaborate), but now that I have the opportunity, i bought a ticket for Camel, Gov't Mule and Fish for this year to come. Let's see what 2018 brings us.

But first Camel, and the 6th is my birthday, so it's going to be exxxxxtra special. :D


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Posted By: noni
Date Posted: June 03 2018 at 13:02
Originally posted by Kingsnake Kingsnake wrote:

Peter Bardens' organ work and songwriting was great combined with Andy.

But Bardend did a lot of stuff after Camel, wich is not very interesting. So it's more the sum of the parts I guess.

But Andy continued to gather great musicians and songwriters around him, and there are some really great albums in the seventies (Raindances), eighties (Nude and Stationairy Traveller), nineties (Dust and Dreams, Harbour of Tears, Rajaz) and present day (Nod and a Wink).

So to write Camel of after the departure of Bardens, is not a smart move, if you want to discover great progrockmusic :D

I agree 100%    Thumbs Up


Posted By: Kingsnake
Date Posted: June 03 2018 at 13:28
I read on a lot of websites that even play a new song entitled Dingley Dell.
So maybe there's going to be a new album aswell in the future.

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Posted By: noni
Date Posted: June 03 2018 at 13:58
Originally posted by Kingsnake Kingsnake wrote:

I read on a lot of websites that even play a new song entitled Dingley Dell.
So maybe there's going to be a new album aswell in the future.

I hope so.   Really love Peter Jone's work.   Would love to see him on a Camel album.  


Posted By: Prog-jester
Date Posted: June 03 2018 at 15:00
Originally posted by Tuzvihar Tuzvihar wrote:

I just saw them here in Warsaw yesterday


been there, blown away

some vids - https://www.instagram.com/p/BjisXGwh1lA/?taken-by=prog_jester" rel="nofollow - 1 , https://www.instagram.com/p/BjjqQQmhyML/?taken-by=prog_jester" rel="nofollow - 2 and of course https://www.instagram.com/p/BjjV8dxBFER/?taken-by=prog_jester" rel="nofollow - "Ice" , which made me cry <3


Posted By: Kingsnake
Date Posted: June 04 2018 at 12:52
Only one day away.

I noticed that I havent listened to Dust and Dreams and Harbour of Tears a lot, so I listened to those two today, to get in the mood.

I will listen to Moonmadness all day tomorrow. Or maybe that's overkill.


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Posted By: Kingsnake
Date Posted: June 04 2018 at 12:55
Originally posted by Prog-jester Prog-jester wrote:

Originally posted by Tuzvihar Tuzvihar wrote:

I just saw them here in Warsaw yesterday


been there, blown away

some vids - https://www.instagram.com/p/BjisXGwh1lA/?taken-by=prog_jester" rel="nofollow - 1 , https://www.instagram.com/p/BjjqQQmhyML/?taken-by=prog_jester" rel="nofollow - 2 and of course https://www.instagram.com/p/BjjV8dxBFER/?taken-by=prog_jester" rel="nofollow - "Ice" , which made me cry <3

I have that to. That music makes me cry. I can get very emotional of beautiful music. 


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Posted By: Tuzvihar
Date Posted: June 04 2018 at 12:58
Originally posted by Prog-jester Prog-jester wrote:

Originally posted by Tuzvihar Tuzvihar wrote:

I just saw them here in Warsaw yesterday


been there, blown away

some vids - https://www.instagram.com/p/BjisXGwh1lA/?taken-by=prog_jester" rel="nofollow - 1 , https://www.instagram.com/p/BjjqQQmhyML/?taken-by=prog_jester" rel="nofollow - 2 and of course https://www.instagram.com/p/BjjV8dxBFER/?taken-by=prog_jester" rel="nofollow - "Ice" , which made me cry <3


Hah! It's a pity I didn't know. I live nearby the club BTW.

Did You also go to see Yes and SBB the next day? That was also a great gig! Clap


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Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: June 04 2018 at 13:07
I have a ticket for London in September. Looking very forward to it. I saw Camel twice in the eighties and once in the nineties and I loved all their shows. There's a warmth in their music and their live performance that makes them very special on stage.


Posted By: miamiscot
Date Posted: June 04 2018 at 14:24
Help!!!
I really like Mirage, The Snow Goose and Moonmadness but nothing else has sounded all that great to me.
Nude is too 80's and Breathless has one good song.
What am I missing here? I know I should love Camel.
Why don't I?


Posted By: Quinino
Date Posted: June 04 2018 at 14:32
^ Go backwards - start with "A Nod and A Wink" and I'm pretty sure you will see the LIGHT


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Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching.


Posted By: Kingsnake
Date Posted: June 04 2018 at 15:11
Originally posted by miamiscot miamiscot wrote:

Help!!!
I really like Mirage, The Snow Goose and Moonmadness but nothing else has sounded all that great to me.
Nude is too 80's and Breathless has one good song.
What am I missing here? I know I should love Camel.
Why don't I?


You havent even tried Raindances and the debutalbum?

And you can only find 1 good song on Breathless. Most people find at least 3 or 4 great songs on that album.

And what exactly does Nude sound too 80's? The sterile production? Or some synths by Duncan McKay. Because if so, stay away from I Can See Your House from Here and Stationairy Traveller. They have the most synths of all Camel albums.

Rayaz and Nod and a Wink are more back-to-basics albums.
But Harbour of Tears and Dust and Dreams are great too, more celtic/folkish influenced.

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Posted By: Squonk19
Date Posted: June 04 2018 at 16:07
Looking forward to seeing Camel this Autumn in Newcastle - especially with Moonmadness getting played in its entirety. I also lost some interest in them after Raindances, but in recent years I've revisited those later albums and enjoyed them - including Nude and Stationary Traveller. Maybe not up to their classic 70s period - but still pretty good stuff to be found if you give it time.

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Posted By: genbanks
Date Posted: June 04 2018 at 19:34
Highly underrated they were and are...I love many things of Camel, Moonmadness is the best for me followed by Mirage. Rajaz is my other favorite. On the songs, not in particular order but Lunar sea, Chord change, Song within a song and Airborn, are all killers, Lady Fantasy and Nimrodel too, Ice, Sahara, Shout, and of course For today, a masterpiece too. Amazing band.


Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: June 04 2018 at 20:36
Originally posted by miamiscot miamiscot wrote:

Help!!!
I really like Mirage, The Snow Goose and Moonmadness but nothing else has sounded all that great to me.
Nude is too 80's and Breathless has one good song.
What am I missing here? I know I should love Camel.
Why don't I?


I have a similar problem to you... I really love their music with the original line-up, but once they started changing their personell they sort of lost their touch, for what I have gotten to hear from them. For what it's worth, I do love many of the versions of songs with the second line-up on "A Live Record" (Mel Collins does some really cool stuff there). After Moonmadness, the only songs I have heard I liked are "Ice", "Sasquatch", and "Stationary Traveller". I guess my next step to get to know a little bit more from them would be to get the later years better rated albums: "Rajaz" and the live "Coming of Age". But I wouldn't worry too much if I don't find more to love from the band, I already got plenty of music to enjoy from them, and I have no obligation with anybody to like anything more.


Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: June 04 2018 at 23:17
Great band. My personal favorites are "mirage,""snowgoose" and "dust and dreams." Some of the others I heard were great as well. 

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When you list all the qualities that you despise and you realize you're describing yourself.


Posted By: Kingsnake
Date Posted: June 05 2018 at 00:10
For those who only like the first line-up. You can also try Camel on the Road 1972. A great early livealbum that deserves more attention.

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Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: June 05 2018 at 05:50
Originally posted by miamiscot miamiscot wrote:

Help!!!
I really like Mirage, The Snow Goose and Moonmadness but nothing else has sounded all that great to me.
Nude is too 80's and Breathless has one good song.
What am I missing here? I know I should love Camel.
Why don't I?

No you shouldn't. You're absolutely free to love what you love and only that.
I've got to say, I can actually understand why some people don't like that much of Camel or even find them boring. They're certainly hardly innovative or adventurous or actually "progressive" (in the true sense of the word). Whenever I read negative reviews about Camel albums, I think "they have a point". Camel to me works on a very personal, emotional and subjective level. I find it hard to explain what makes me feel at home in their music. OK, there's the occasional obvious musical highlight that I'd really expect music lovers to appreciate (the highest in my view is the "Live Record" version of "Never Let Go") and Latimer is a true master of the melodic guitar. Still, by and large I tend to think that they speak to you on some subconscious emotional level or they don't, and if they don't, there's little you can do.


Posted By: Kingsnake
Date Posted: June 05 2018 at 05:54
^I have the exact same feeling.
 
That's why I like less progressive/innovative groups like Camel, Barclay James Harvest, Moody Blues, Eloy, etc.
Pure because they appeal to me. And I am a romantic, and all these bands have a romanticism written all over them.


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Posted By: Kingsnake
Date Posted: June 05 2018 at 11:57
The concert has been canceled because Andy is not doing well.
I hope he will recover. I feel really bad for him. He went a long way for the fans. Fans can be so demanding.

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Posted By: Squonk19
Date Posted: June 05 2018 at 12:10
^ I feel very sorry for you. Hope he can get better and able to reschedule. It'll be interesting if his UK dates get affected in a few months time.

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Posted By: Prog-jester
Date Posted: June 05 2018 at 17:49
Originally posted by Tuzvihar Tuzvihar wrote:

Hah! It's a pity I didn't know. I live nearby the club BTW. Did You also go to see Yes and SBB the next day?

funny I didn't even think of PA folk visiting the show...dumb me!

Nope I skipped June 3rd, but been there June 1st for Steve Hogarth solo gig. Nice one but a bit uneven


Posted By: Cord Change
Date Posted: June 08 2018 at 20:27
Camel are my favourite prog band. I like the original band lineup best. I think that Latimer is one of the greatest guitarists of all time, I love his sound on Snow Goose and Moon Madness the most - he is also quite good at the flute. Ward, amazing drummer and the main reason I will always come back to Camel. I will always love Peter for "Fritha Alone". 

Camel are highly criticized for lacking vocally with no great singers. If you need singing in your prog then go listen to VDDG or Genesis. 

It does surprise me that prog heads dismiss Camel in the album reviews and that they don't receive as wide celebration as KC or Yes - Camel should be celebrated for being able to stick with the same lineup for more then one album if anything. 



Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: June 08 2018 at 21:29
Originally posted by Cord Change Cord Change wrote:

Camel are my favourite prog band. I like the original band lineup best. I think that Latimer is one of the greatest guitarists of all time, I love his sound on Snow Goose and Moon Madness the most - he is also quite good at the flute. Ward, amazing drummer and the main reason I will always come back to Camel. I will always love Peter for "Fritha Alone". 

Camel are highly criticized for lacking vocally with no great singers. If you need singing in your prog then go listen to VDDG or Genesis. 

It does surprise me that prog heads dismiss Camel in the album reviews and that they don't receive as wide celebration as KC or Yes - Camel should be celebrated for being able to stick with the same lineup for more then one album if anything. 



Camel are very well loved around here. They have beaten ELP in polls, actually.


Posted By: noni
Date Posted: June 08 2018 at 22:55
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by Cord Change Cord Change wrote:

Camel are my favourite prog band. I like the original band lineup best. I think that Latimer is one of the greatest guitarists of all time, I love his sound on Snow Goose and Moon Madness the most - he is also quite good at the flute. Ward, amazing drummer and the main reason I will always come back to Camel. I will always love Peter for "Fritha Alone". 

Camel are highly criticized for lacking vocally with no great singers. If you need singing in your prog then go listen to VDDG or Genesis. 

It does surprise me that prog heads dismiss Camel in the album reviews and that they don't receive as wide celebration as KC or Yes - Camel should be celebrated for being able to stick with the same lineup for more then one album if anything. 



Camel are very well loved around here. They have beaten ELP in polls, actually.

One of the great qualities that Andy Latimer possess's,  is the ability to keep the Camel sound alive.  Despite many band changes through it's time, he focuses on great musician ship and had the best including Phil Collins, Caravan members,  plus others great members of suberbs bands.   Smile

Sadly when when Pete left the band on his own accord,  Pete wanted the band to change direction and did not get on too well with Andy in this direction...  I love Pete's work and have all his albums,  but this to me is not Camel.  Andy has since regretted this,  and probably could of sorted this bitter row over his partnership ...  But since then , a lot of dedication has gone into a lot of past members work into Camel,  including Peter Bardens.

I'm very pleased with this current line up and you can probably say that Colin Bass  holds the record for the next longest member after Camel's founder member Andy Latimer,  named after the band  The Brew
Pete Jones and  Denis Clement hold a great foundation for what's hoping for another great new album, I hope!!...Smile

Here's hoping!!  Ermm



Posted By: MortSahlFan
Date Posted: June 09 2018 at 09:52
I like Camel, but not as much as I used to.. I guess that's the true test.


Posted By: Kingsnake
Date Posted: June 09 2018 at 11:42
^^  Finally someone mentions Colin Bass.

He has been with the band since 1979!!! He only didn't play on Single Factor and Stationairy Traveller.
He also an important vocalist for the band.

I understand people long for the original line-up, but even bands that keep their line-up intact make terrible albums (Queen, Golden Earring, Rush, etc.)

So that's not the point. Also if you listen to Keats (Bardens's project after Camel) you can hear the same soft-pop as on Breathless. At least I Can See Your House From Here has a lot of energy and fun in it.
It was just the times: 1978-1981 were difficult years for progbands to release epic symphonic songs.

If you look at Saga, Rush, Toto, Chicago; they all shortened their songs and went with a pop-structure and they survived.

At least Camel had the guts to release Nude, wich is a conceptalbums in 1981!!!
The only other band with the same guts I can think of is Eloy.

But, I'm diverting. I hope that people who love the first line up would at least give the albums Dust & Dreams, Harbour of Tears, Rajaz and A Nod and a Wink a try.
The production of Nod and a Wink is superb and it sounds just like the Moonmadnes-days.



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Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: June 09 2018 at 13:18
^Bass' singing on Pressure Points' Fingertips is excellent.

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Posted By: Cord Change
Date Posted: June 09 2018 at 18:19
Originally posted by Kingsnake Kingsnake wrote:

I understand people long for the original line-up, but even bands that keep their line-up intact make terrible albums (Queen, Golden Earring, Rush, etc.)

At least Camel had the guts to release Nude, wich is a conceptalbums in 1981!!!


Maybe I came off a little strong about my lineup opinion before, just to be clear I think that Camel has always had great musicians and I find all their albums quite enjoyable. Nude is a great album!


Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: June 09 2018 at 19:34
For me actually Richard Sinclair was their best bassist. I'm fine with how both Colin Bass (I love 3Mustaphas3 by the way) and Doug Ferguson fit into Camel's music, but when Sinclair does it, listening just to the bass alone can make me happy.


Posted By: Kingsnake
Date Posted: June 10 2018 at 02:12
^The bassplaying on Raindances and A Live Record (also the BBC 1977 recordings) is out-of-this-world.
Especially First Light and Unevensong. But did you know that Andy played some of the bassparts on Raindances.

Raindances is a weird little gem. Unlike Camel ever did and they never ventured into this kind of jazzrock-kinda thing. Only some songs on Breathless come close.
When it comes to Camel, people also tend to forget Mel Collins (who for a while as an official member).

Colin Bass and Doug Ferguson (but also David Patton) are more basic players, but that is also important. But don't be fooled; even basic playing can be very difficult.



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Posted By: scruffydragon
Date Posted: June 10 2018 at 04:33
.
Originally posted by MortSahlFan MortSahlFan wrote:

I like Camel, but not as much as I used to.. I guess that's the true test.
 
I am in the same boat. I still listen to Camel but when I am in the mood. I guess if you overplay something it becomes far to familiar and a bit stale. Funny thing is move away for a year or two then have another listen and it sounds great again. Often I can pick up on things I missed the previous times around. Music inspired by the snow goose however seems to be one of those very rare pieces that never seems to age and I often turn to when I need to chill out. Timeless albums are so rare.
 
I would love to have a large poster of that albums cover to grace the wall above my CD player.


Posted By: scruffydragon
Date Posted: June 10 2018 at 04:45
Originally posted by Kingsnake Kingsnake wrote:

^

Raindances is a weird little gem. Unlike Camel ever did and they never ventured into this kind of jazzrock-kinda thing.

 
 
Funny thing with Camel they always had that Jazzy vibe and edge to their music. Check out their first album especially the track Six Ate. That tune is just glorious to listen to. It was one of their strong points but they never overplayed it.


Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: June 10 2018 at 05:43
I’ve loved Camel for decades - especially Moonmadness and Mirage.
I’m really impressed that Opeth’s Mikael Åkerfeldt claims Andy as his main inspiration. This, even at the time of Orchid and Morningrise.   


Posted By: Kingsnake
Date Posted: June 10 2018 at 10:52
Originally posted by scruffydragon scruffydragon wrote:

.
Originally posted by MortSahlFan MortSahlFan wrote:

I like Camel, but not as much as I used to.. I guess that's the true test.
 
I am in the same boat. I still listen to Camel but when I am in the mood. I guess if you overplay something it becomes far to familiar and a bit stale. Funny thing is move away for a year or two then have another listen and it sounds great again. Often I can pick up on things I missed the previous times around. Music inspired by the snow goose however seems to be one of those very rare pieces that never seems to age and I often turn to when I need to chill out. Timeless albums are so rare.
 
I would love to have a large poster of that albums cover to grace the wall above my CD player.


I listened to Camel when I as 13/14 years old and stopped when I was 18/19 (I wanted to be cool, so I move towards progmetal and other metal-thingies).
I picked up Camel again when I was 25 or 27 and was suprised at how good it was. I never stopped listening to it after that.

I guess I had a whole break from progrock for those 8 to 10 years, wich is a shame. Although I picked up some great other music in the meantime. But I''m deriving (again).

I have a tattoo of the Snow Goose-album cover by the way.

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