"Hmmm...I wonder what I can do to make even more money that I don't deserve? I've already exhausted my stealing of famous prog bands's work. I know! I can just remaster my own albums which don't need remastering!"

Probably not an essential purchase unless you're a completist.

I have the original 2008 CD as well as the 2009 vinyl version and even with the vinyl there is a much better difference to my ears, I will not get the 2016 CD, cause CDs are krapp .

If you only have the 2008 CD and feel it is brickwalled to your ears then the 2016 reissue should take care of that. At least he did not issue it as a 25 disc package with 5 versions of every song both studio and live and a 50 page hardback book with 4 DVDs and charge you $300......It's a £8.00 CD.

You'd think he would have gotten it right the first time.  There's too much good stuff going on in prog for me to get it.

Precisely.  It's not like the original sounds terrible, but it is fairly squashed:

DR Peak RMS Duration Track -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR5 0.00 dB -7.93 dB 5:08 01-CD Track 01 DR5 0.00 dB -8.74 dB 4:48 02-CD Track 02 DR6 0.00 dB -8.54 dB 8:18 03-CD Track 03 DR8 0.00 dB -10.58 dB 5:58 04-CD Track 04 DR6 0.00 dB -9.91 dB 8:37 05-CD Track 05 DR5 0.00 dB -8.53 dB 4:32 06-CD Track 06 DR5 0.00 dB -6.38 dB 4:24 07-CD Track 07 DR7 0.00 dB -11.81 dB 3:25 08-CD Track 08 DR6 0.00 dB -9.46 dB 6:17 09-CD Track 09 DR8 -0.10 dB -12.45 dB 3:55 10-CD Track 10 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Number of tracks: 10 Official DR value: DR6

Compare that to the new master:

DR Peak RMS Duration Track -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR9 -0.06 dB -12.14 dB 5:08 01-Harmony Korine DR8 -0.09 dB -13.34 dB 4:48 02-Abandoner DR9 -0.58 dB -12.55 dB 8:18 03-Salvaging DR11 -1.33 dB -15.57 dB 5:58 04-Veneno Para Las Hadas DR9 -0.06 dB -13.39 dB 8:37 05-No Twilight Within The Courts Of The Sun DR9 -0.06 dB -12.70 dB 4:32 06-Significant Other DR9 -0.02 dB -11.59 dB 4:24 07-Only Child DR11 -0.49 dB -16.12 dB 3:25 08-Twilight Coda DR8 -0.02 dB -12.65 dB 6:17 09-Get All You Deserve DR11 -0.14 dB -16.17 dB 4:00 10-Insurgentes -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Number of tracks: 10 Official DR value: DR9

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR5        0.00 dB    -7.93 dB      5:08 01-CD Track 01
DR5        0.00 dB    -8.74 dB      4:48 02-CD Track 02
DR6        0.00 dB    -8.54 dB      8:18 03-CD Track 03
DR8        0.00 dB   -10.58 dB      5:58 04-CD Track 04
DR6        0.00 dB    -9.91 dB      8:37 05-CD Track 05
DR5        0.00 dB    -8.53 dB      4:32 06-CD Track 06
DR5        0.00 dB    -6.38 dB      4:24 07-CD Track 07
DR7        0.00 dB   -11.81 dB      3:25 08-CD Track 08
DR6        0.00 dB    -9.46 dB      6:17 09-CD Track 09
DR8       -0.10 dB   -12.45 dB      3:55 10-CD Track 10
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks:  10
Official DR value: DR6

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR9       -0.06 dB   -12.14 dB      5:08 01-Harmony Korine
DR8       -0.09 dB   -13.34 dB      4:48 02-Abandoner
DR9       -0.58 dB   -12.55 dB      8:18 03-Salvaging
DR11      -1.33 dB   -15.57 dB      5:58 04-Veneno Para Las Hadas
DR9       -0.06 dB   -13.39 dB      8:37 05-No Twilight Within The Courts Of The Sun
DR9       -0.06 dB   -12.70 dB      4:32 06-Significant Other
DR9       -0.02 dB   -11.59 dB      4:24 07-Only Child
DR11      -0.49 dB   -16.12 dB      3:25 08-Twilight Coda
DR8       -0.02 dB   -12.65 dB      6:17 09-Get All You Deserve
DR11      -0.14 dB   -16.17 dB      4:00 10-Insurgentes
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks:  10
Official DR value: DR9

This is over-hyped pseudo-scientific bollocks. 

I bet if some label would do this for the Fab Four catalog it would sell out in seconds!! The previous 800 reissues of their albums in both mono and stereo would be considered rubbish 

No, it isn't.  I'm an audio engineer with a degree in psychology and I can tell you point-blank that it is not pseudo-science, it is not over-hyped, and it is not bollocks.

I am old enough to know the difference having grown up on LP records, cassette/R2R tape...then comes along digital (CDs, music files) and now heavy back to LP records, for me there is a noticeable difference. I have done it countless times, meaning sit and spin my records all day long into the night 6-7 hours and never feel ear fatigue, headaches or the like.....YMMV.

Looking at the DR database on this particular album it makes sense to me, the 2008 CD version DR6, Vinyl issue DR11, I hear the difference on my system.

What probably needs to be scrutinized is the measuring process of this database, maybe that is what Dean is pointing out....dunno.

Oh! We're playing credentials top trumps  ... okay, my go: I'm an Aries with a clean driving licence, I like cats and going for long walks by the river, my favourite colours are black and purple and I don't like pasta and my drink of choice is tea. I'm sorry I've left all my academic and vocational qualifications in the pocket my lab coat along with my employment record but not wanting to get into bragging contest to see which of us can piss the highest up a wall, I can assure you yours didn't scare me much. And DR numbers are still over-hyped pseudo-scientific bollocks.

JediJoker7169 wrote: Catcher10 wrote: What probably needs to be scrutinized is the measuring process of this database, maybe that is what Dean is pointing out....dunno. These DR numbers were generated using the Tischmeyer Technology (TT) Dynamic Range Meter offline algorithm, either in its standalone application version or as a plugin for some other piece of software (foobar2000, for instance). Friedemann Tischmeyer, who developed the algorithm and software with Algorithmix, is a mastering engineer and dynamic range advocate. There are now more standardized measures of loudness using the EBU R128 standard, but the TT Meter's readings are highly comparable to the loudness (LU) range reported by software using the R128 algorithm. This is different from the integrated LKFS/LUFS reading, which is a measure of the average loudness (similar to RMS, reported in negative) against the digital limit of 0dBFS (for fixed-point bit-depth). For both DR and LU (any variant), each unit is equivalent to 1dB. Both use perceptual models of human hearing (read: scientifically derived) to determine the loudness we actually experience while listening.

I have no issue with the measurement process, (though again, the credentials of the participants fail to impress me, even so-called experts get it wrong), DR numbers are relative measurements and my only real issue with them is they are by that very virtue relatively meaningless and quoting them to 2 d.p. is farcical. Dynamic Range measurement (by whatever method) attempts to normalise the complex non-repetitive, non-cyclic waveforms of music, (that not only differ from track to track and artist to artist but from mix to mix), into an empirically quantifiable single value and then use that as a subjective measure of quality. The algorithms used to calculate this magic number are getting (for want of a more apt word) better and they are far more involved than simply calculating the crest factor (too complex to go into here) of a signal by dividing the peak by the rms (again, too complex to go into here), however they are still attempting to quantify values that are continuously varying through out a piece of music into a single comparative value - the "loudness" (once again, too complex to go into here but "loudness" is not a wholly empirical measurement) of any piece of music continuously changes in time and the DR value is an attempt to "average" (not the actual mean value) that out across the measurement duration time into a measure of goodness.

While the threshold of human hearing is generally stated at 3dB this is a rounded average so sure, some can discern a couple of dB difference under very controlled conditions but no one can really do much better than that. When I see any dB value (peak, RMS or whatever) expressed to 2 d.p. I reserve the right to regard that with an air of caution. 

Therein lies the problem with sampling and putting all one's trust in metering, but peak clipping has nothing to do with dynamic range as such. If the signal clips at any time and it is audibly noticeable then that is the the fault of the engineer (who frankly should stop calling himself an engineer because he's obviously nothing more than a bloody technician if he clips the waveform and fails to notice it).