selling England by pound
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Recommendations/Featured albums
Forum Description: Make or seek recommendations and discuss specific prog albums
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=109728
Printed Date: April 18 2024 at 00:10
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Topic: selling England by pound
Posted By: grantman
Subject: selling England by pound
Date Posted: December 21 2016 at 15:56
This being the 5 th genesis release the arrangements are more rounded out ,the lyrics more detailed, the theme is of course England or a remembrance of what was England is or was, from the bands point of view.The opening track dancing with the moonlight knight ,i know what like (in your wardrobe) simply breathtaking, even the phil song more fool me is above par, all things considered this is one great album sorry but although frith of firth is an excellent song.Being a guitar nut like myself cinema show and after the ordeal holds up to any standard guitar work of today,s progressive rock bands .
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Replies:
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: December 22 2016 at 04:17
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^A review or an appreciation thread? If it's the latter, then all I can say is that I feel it's the best Gabriel era Genesis album. I actually haven't listened to it in years, but I know most of it by heart. Glad to see others still enjoying this prog classic. ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: December 22 2016 at 05:56
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Shouldn't this be posted as a review? |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: December 22 2016 at 07:09
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A good album. The best produced and performed of the Gabriel era, but I still prefer the Lamb and Foxtrot. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: December 22 2016 at 08:41
 If this is a review we need a pic.....;) Perhaps my favorite Genesis lp (though Fox and Cryme are also as good imho) but I would have left off the 'Phil' song and added a few more minutes to one of the others. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: December 22 2016 at 09:37
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Their best effort, a cohesive well produced album. It is hard to identify an album where all the songs are related and yet each can stand on its own. There is almost nothing negative that can be said of this record. -------------   
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Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: December 22 2016 at 11:32
Seriously...? So you actually like More Fool Me...? Why?  ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Catcher10 wrote:Posted By: Terrapin Station
Date Posted: December 22 2016 at 16:55
Well, or why don't you like it? |
Posted By: Enchlore
Date Posted: December 22 2016 at 17:15
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I like More Fool Me. It's a cute song and pretty much harmless. I never got into Battle of Epping Forest, though, despite trying hard. Maybe it needs a few more listens to grow on me. Despite that, the album as a whole is a truly delightful listen. ------------- If you like King Crimson, come over to the KC Discord server! https://discord.gg/6AYBxBD |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: December 22 2016 at 19:26
Ha! It's a good question....I am a fan of Collin's singing, I think early on it really showcases him as a lead singer. Maybe he knew what was going to happen in the group. The song itself is very pleasing, acoustic set with the 12-string (Rutherford I assume). Phil's vocals are very upfront, which I like......I picture them recording this song after everyone else has left the studio. Being that it is the last song on Side I, I actually use it to test my turntable and cartridge setup for inner groove distortion, there is a lot of sibilance in the song with all the sharp Ssss from Phil, the sounds should be very natural and not have any shrill to them. That's when I know my setup is perfect! I like the song -------------
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Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: December 22 2016 at 19:49
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Regarding More Fool Me......I can't say I dislike it but imho the lyrics are banal , the melody is nothing special and the vocals are just mediocre. There's nothing about the song that warrants inclusion on an album imho....well, maybe a Collins solo album. I find it remarkable that Genesis couldn't come up with a more interesting track to fill those 3minutes and 10 seconds. I hope that doesn't sound too harsh...but there it is.  ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: zravkapt
Date Posted: December 22 2016 at 19:58
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Dancing 9/10 I Know 5/10 Firth 9/10 Fool 1/10 Battle 3/10 Ordeal 7/10 Cinema 8/10 Aisle 5/10 Pros: best sounding album up to that point Cons: More Fool Me and Epping Forest ------------- Magma America Great Make Again |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: December 22 2016 at 20:45
Nope....That's why I like it. It's simple, nothing about England, the Queen, a lawn mower or that English ribs of beef are cut down to 47p per LB. It's just a song by Collins and Rutherford. -------------
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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: December 22 2016 at 21:25
This is very much what I always say about this album. Though I wouldn't go as far as saying I like "More Fool Me", but it's indeed harmless enough, and I don't really dislike it either. And as far as Epping Forest goes, I'm sure that no matter how many times I may listen to it, I just won't get to like it. |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: December 22 2016 at 21:29
I also like Phil's singing very much... I do like it much better than Gabriel's, but by this point I bet he had no idea he would end up being the lead singer of the band... nor perhaps that he would have a succesful career as a solo singer. As far as I understand, Genesis actually auditioned lot's of singers without succes... I believe it was Phil showing them what and how they should sing, and in the end they just said he should sing them himself. |
Posted By: aglasshouse
Date Posted: December 22 2016 at 21:39
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It's alright. Not my favorite but I can recognize its quality. ------------- http://fryingpanmedia.com |
Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: December 23 2016 at 00:38
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Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: December 23 2016 at 00:45
Sorry, but every time I listen to that song, "banal" and "mediocre" don't quite compute in my head. As far as I'm concerned, there are tons of classic songs that can be described as such by some people. You can write something very simple and come out a winner because that which you've created sounds beautiful. And I wouldn't subscribe to calling "More Fool Me" saccharine either. (I just know someone who called it that.) My brain just does not recognize excessive sweetness, whatever that means. |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: December 23 2016 at 04:45
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Posted By: Terrapin Station
Date Posted: December 23 2016 at 05:19
Re lyrics, I have no idea about that--I haven't the faintest idea what the lyrics are for that tune, or, for that matter, for the vast majority of music I listen to. I'm one of those people who normally couldn't care less what any lyrics are, and I usually pay very little attention to lyrics. I'd never say that something has "bad lyrics." Ultimately I see lyrics simply as phonemes to sing. I do pay a lot of attention to vocals, but I'm listening to melody, timbre, phrasing, etc. You can do that without cognizing the semantic content of lyrics, which is what I typically do. Re the melody, I think it's rather nice. I wouldn't say it's a favorite melody of mine or anything earth-shattering or anything like that, but I'd say it's as good as most of the vocal melodies on the album. (I'd also say that Genesis wrote a lot of their best vocal melodies in the 80s . . . Of course, I'm a fan of solo Phil Collins, too, so . . . ) I also think that "More Fool Me" works perfectly as a bridge between "Firth of Fifth" and "The Battle of Epping Forest". |
Posted By: Terrapin Station
Date Posted: December 23 2016 at 05:24
My ratings would go like this: Dancing with the Moonlit Knight - 10/10 I Know What I Like (In Your Wardrobe) - 10/10 Firth of Fifth - 10/10 More Fool Me - 10/10 Battle of Epping Forest - 10/10 After the Ordeal - 10/10 The Cinema Show - 10/10 Aisle of Plenty - 10/10 . . . it's very rare that I think song quality varies much on an album (regardless of what I rate the album overall), and I can't think of a single album, out of the many thousands I'm familiar with, where I'd rate one song as high as a 9 and another song as low as a 3. There are albums where I'd rate some songs a 10 and some an 8 or 9, or some an 8 and some a 7 or 6, etc., but I don't know if there would be any album where I'd have more of a point spread between songs than that. |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: December 23 2016 at 05:34
And how do rate album that you don't like? Are all tracks rated 1/10?  ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: Terrapin Station
Date Posted: December 23 2016 at 06:21
So, if it were an album that I'd rate a 1/10 (if in fact there are any, I'm not sure), per the above, I'd not think any track on that album were better than a 3/10, and I wouldn't think that many tracks, or a very high percentage of the album was a 3/10, otherwise I wouldn't rate the album a 1/10. If I think an album is a 5/10, say, which I certainly do think about some albums, then I'm going to think that all of the tracks are somewhere between 4/10 and 6/10, where 5/10 would pretty much be an average (per running time). I'm not saying that it's impossible for there to be an album where I think a track is 4/10 and another an 8/10 or something like that, but that's just never how I actually respond to anything (at least to my memory). I can't think of any album where I really like some tracks and really dislike others. Heck, even talking about entire discographies, most artists are more or less consistent quality-wise in my opinion. There are some examples where people have albums I love and albums I don't like, but that's pretty rare. And there are artists, including with large discographies, where I rate every album of theirs with less than a 3-point spread (so, for example, they might have 50 albums and I'd rate them all an 8, 9 or 10). There are even artists with relatively large discographies where I rate every album a 10--that's true of many of my favorite artists, which is why they're favorites. That I react to music that way is why it's so hard for me to pick out favorite albums, favorite songs, etc. from particular artists. |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: December 23 2016 at 06:25
^Well, you're more easy to please then I am. Perhaps you don't own very lousy albums. I do and I can rate Tarkus 10/10 and Love Beach 1/10. But that's just me.  ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: Terrapin Station
Date Posted: December 23 2016 at 07:08
Love Beach gets a 10 from me. The two ELP albums that get less than a 10 from me are Black Moon and In the Hot Seat. Black Moon I'd give an 8. In the Hot Seat would get a 7. Every other ELP album, including Emerson, Lake & Powell, would get a 10 from me. ELP is one of my top 10 artists, by the way. Not including stuff I've downloaded, I've owned over 15,000 albums, by the way. |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: December 23 2016 at 07:33
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As I said, you're easy to please. Just kidding. Glad that you enjoy LB and have a great holiday. ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: grantman
Date Posted: December 23 2016 at 08:28
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love beach a mistake i say
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: December 23 2016 at 08:37
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One man's treasure is another mans' junk goes the saying. ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: December 23 2016 at 08:53
Apparently..... Anyone who thinks Love beach gets a 10 is an enigma to me. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: December 23 2016 at 08:55
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Yes, this is a strange one, but I'm in a festive mood, so, you know... ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: December 23 2016 at 09:14
Perhaps enema would be more appropriate. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: December 23 2016 at 09:39
Steve I am shocked you actually gave it a rating, you must be expecting Santa to bring you something nice! Or you are inebriated right now....... BTW, I don't own that album anymore, traded it in at the local record store many moons ago. -------------
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Posted By: Modrigue
Date Posted: December 23 2016 at 10:06
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Never understood why this was often considered as their best album. For sure, there are great prog epics here: Dancing With The Moonlit Knight and Firth Of Fifth. But I can't stand I know what I like... and More Fool Me. And The Battle Of Epping Forest is kind of... odd An uneven album IHMO... ------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqf2srRfppHAslEmHBn8QP6d_eoanh0eW" rel="nofollow - My compositions |
Posted By: Terrapin Station
Date Posted: December 23 2016 at 10:07
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And I've never really understood the massive dislike of Love Beach (well, although if part of it is some difference with the lyrics, that might make sense--but remember that I pay almost no attention to lyrics). I know it has shorter tunes on the A side, but ELP certainly did plenty of shorter tunes, and those on Love Beach are gems for shorter pop tunes, brilliantly arranged, some of Carl Palmer's best drumming in my opinion. Tunes like "The Gambler" are masterpieces with respect to the drum part. Carl approached that tune so creatively, melodically/contrapuntally. Heck, neither Works album gets near the hatred that Love Beach does, and Works Vol. 2 is ALL short songs while Works Vol. 1 has Greg Lake's side, plus Carl Palmer's side isn't anything like typical ELP. (Of course, I'm not bringing this up to rag on the Works albums--both of which I love, but it just seems kind of hypocritical to me with respect to people ragging on Love Beach.) |
Posted By: Terrapin Station
Date Posted: December 23 2016 at 10:09
Prog fans not liking something because it's odd is a new one for me.  |
Posted By: Modrigue
Date Posted: December 23 2016 at 10:17
Well, I think there are way too much "vocal sections" in it ------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqf2srRfppHAslEmHBn8QP6d_eoanh0eW" rel="nofollow - My compositions |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: December 23 2016 at 14:48
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: December 23 2016 at 14:59
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Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: December 23 2016 at 15:01
Attaboy!!!  -------------
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: December 23 2016 at 15:06
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^Merry X-Mass to you and yours, Jose! And best wishes for the New year! ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: December 23 2016 at 16:44
Merry Christmas Steve, I hope you have a wonderful one with you and yours also. Cheers! -------------
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 23 2016 at 19:04
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Let me see: I Know 5/10 Firth 10/10 Fool 0/10...Out of place Battle 7/10...Outstanding vocal work Ordeal 7/10 Cinema 10/10 Aisle 5/10 Great album, but my least favorite Gabriel era release not counting FGTTR. ------------- 
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Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: December 23 2016 at 21:08
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I have gotten to where I enjoy More Fool Me. It took me years and even more years, so I can understand perfectly well anyone who doesn't. I genuinely love Battle of Epping Forest. I don't care for the vocals in Firth of Fifth, but they carry me to THE Hackett Guitar solo, so, okay. To me the very best item on the album is After the Ordeal. The only downside to that one is that it ought to have been longer. Banks didn't actually want it on he album at all, which I find stunning. ------------- A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now) |
Posted By: Terrapin Station
Date Posted: December 24 2016 at 17:40
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: December 25 2016 at 07:02
I think that "Lamb" was a better designed concept, and played like it, however, it may have suffered from not getting the satisfactory response THEN, that it gets NOW, and sadly, it helped PG leave the band for his own thing. For me, however, SEBTP was the first Genesis album I ever heard, and I immediately got Foxtrot and Nursery Crime, right after it. Unfortunately, by that time, ANGE was better, and stronger for my tastes and I fell out of Genesis when PG left. ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Pigab
Date Posted: February 04 2017 at 06:15
| Best album ever!!!! |