What do you think of ELP Re-Works & Yes Remixes?
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Topic: What do you think of ELP Re-Works & Yes Remixes?
Posted By: Terrapin Station
Subject: What do you think of ELP Re-Works & Yes Remixes?
Date Posted: January 09 2017 at 06:03
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I know a lot of fans of both bands hate them. I enjoy both quite a bit, though. I can see if someone just doesn't like that style of music--EDM/techno/trance/etc., but it seems like a lot of fans have a problem with the albums from what's essentially a purist perspective--they don't like the idea of tampering with the original tunes, with experimenting and doing something different with them, etc. That seems against the core spirit of progressive rock/progressive music in general to me, though. Progressive music is anything but purist in spirit. |
Replies:
Posted By: Terrapin Station
Date Posted: January 09 2017 at 06:08
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Here are links to check them out if you're not familiar with them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDfR_oQO41Q&list=PLkcAzV3bmOCokloIy2AvbqF1-bFGOkpkK" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDfR_oQO41Q&list=PLkcAzV3bmOCokloIy2AvbqF1-bFGOkpkK https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbISXDp_5i4&list=PL8OlPYxGbWgoAgbymvPcTTjXXOqxj5ZAG" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbISXDp_5i4&list=PL8OlPYxGbWgoAgbymvPcTTjXXOqxj5ZAG |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: January 09 2017 at 06:57
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I found the ELP Reworks pretty boring, it has about 1000 different versions of Fanfare. Yes' remixes is fairly interesting but I don't play it all that often. |
Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: January 09 2017 at 07:11
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I once had a copy of Houses Of The Holy (probably still have the files somewhere) where it sounded like Zeppelin meets Tangerine Dream. It was, is, odd. Plus a couple of trance mixes of Babe I'm Gonna leave You which just don't suit. I know of Floyd trance mixes. Quite interesting ideas and probably born from The Orb days. Much better idea with progressive experimental music still having that value. That's my most positive iew. Original artist consent notwithstanding the results could be interesting and a way of not just perpetuating old rock but revaluing it in a context relevant to a given moment. Playing one of the ELP ones now. Interesting but not sure I'd fork out for it. I'd really rather it led to new music rather than sample and hold loops being added and leaving it at that. probably best off with some new prog rock really... |
Posted By: zravkapt
Date Posted: January 09 2017 at 07:27
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How 'bout this? ------------- Magma America Great Make Again |
Posted By: Terrapin Station
Date Posted: January 09 2017 at 07:42
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uduwudu wrote:Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: January 09 2017 at 08:29
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Not into it at all. I felt inoculated against the prog bug. Or a threadbare tee-shirt machine washed for the umpteenth time. Sort of thing that makes me not want to listen to music. So few re-do's are worth it. Maybe, NIN's reworking Queen's "Get Down Make Love". Or YES covering America. |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: January 09 2017 at 08:35
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the remastered version of "Yessongs" is absolutely horrible. the album does not even sound live anymore -------------  A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: January 09 2017 at 08:39
Why don't they leave perfection alone? All in all it's just another mustache on a Mona Lisa.
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Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: January 09 2017 at 14:17
| When the original records were released, the band were ok with it, meaning that's the way they intended/prefer it to sound like; that's my understanding of a band releasing a record they were satisfied with, and that's the reason why I don't care much about new "remixes", which most of the time don't make things better. |
Posted By: Terrapin Station
Date Posted: January 09 2017 at 14:41
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Just to make sure we don't get too off track, I wasn't referring to remixes (if that's indeed what they are) a la remasters of various albums. I was referring to the Yes album entitled Remixes, released in 2003 on the Rhino label. This is a link to an upload of the album in question on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbISXDp_5i4&list=PL8OlPYxGbWgoAgbymvPcTTjXXOqxj5ZAG" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbISXDp_5i4&list=PL8OlPYxGbWgoAgbymvPcTTjXXOqxj5ZAG |
Posted By: Mormegil
Date Posted: January 11 2017 at 06:23
So very, very true. LOVED this version. Blew the original away. ------------- Welcome to the middle of the film. |
Posted By: emigre80
Date Posted: January 11 2017 at 06:43
The original is one of my favorite songs. Can't stand the Yes cover.
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Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: January 11 2017 at 09:02
We're talking about remixes, not cover versions here. |
Posted By: Terrapin Station
Date Posted: January 11 2017 at 12:47
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The Yes cover of America is one of my favorite Yes tunes, by the way. I love the original, too, but the Yes version made it even that much better. |
Posted By: altaeria
Date Posted: January 11 2017 at 13:16
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On a somewhat-related topic... I vaguely remember hearing the original 12" extended remix for the song "Go" from ASIA and not liking that one much either. Upon listening again now, I am still underwhelmed. Oddly enough, there is a brief tacked-on organ solo at 3:28 that sounds like maybe it was lifted from "The Heat Goes On". (If it wasn't, then I wonder if Geoff Downes actually played this part) |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: January 11 2017 at 16:46
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ahahah.. ' ..... Anyway.. 1 star... for eccentric Yes fans and those who are supremely open-minded. Those who are, might actually enjoy pulling this out occasionally. I do. Probably the most enjoyable 1 star album I'll ever review Michael (aka micky) ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: January 12 2017 at 01:24
Yessongs always sounded terrible to me especially when you put it up against ELP's Pictures At An Exhibition which was the standard bearer for pristine sounding live album of the time. As far as the topic goes I've not heard any decent ELP remixes. Steven Wilson apparently got bored doing the ELP ones and it shows. If we are talking repackaged and remastered releases then the deluxe editions of Pictures At An Exhibition and Welcome Back My Friends ... are really good imo. As far as Yes remixes goes then Relayer is pretty decent. I would like a total remix of Going For The One to get away hopefully from that over trebley/low bass mix of the original.
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Posted By: Flight123
Date Posted: January 12 2017 at 03:28
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These 'remixes' seem to be a product of their time (the 90s) - I heard some Floyd ones around then and thought they were ghastly so I have steered clear of them. I did buy 'You're Mixed' by Gong but again, I was unimpressed. It seems they existed for the novelty value...
I echo the sentiment above about 'Pictures' - talk about a crackling, fizzing live album - in its original format! |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: January 12 2017 at 05:13
I think you may be confusing remixes and remasters Richard. The Steven Wilson editions of Relayer and Trilogy are remasters, not remixes.
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: January 12 2017 at 06:12
Interesting as Steven Wilson was interviewed by Darren Reddick not that long ago and went to great pain to explain the difference. I got the impression that he would never do just a remaster as didn't interest him at all. Also I'm not sure he was involved in doing the Trilogy remaster/remix at all , I think it was just the first couple of ELP studio releases. Amazon has wrongly suggested that he did the 2014 remaster of Brain Salad Surgery (I'm 99% sure it wasn't him) but then it's not the first time Amazon has got it's info wrong!
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: January 12 2017 at 06:13
We aren't talking about those kinds of repackaged, remixed and remastered editions. This thread is about the Ibiza style techno remixes of ELP ( http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=2641" rel="nofollow - Re-Works ) and Yes ( http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=8395" rel="nofollow - Remixes ). If you like to hear much loved classics butchered, sampled and sequenced to a four-to-the-floor disco beat with some inappropriate synth fx noises then even these are not a good place to start. The Yes one (by Virgil Howe calling himself "The Verge" ... which is verging on the ridiculous) is slightly better than the ELP one but they're both pretty dire.
------------- What? |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: January 12 2017 at 06:15
^ agreed
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Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: January 12 2017 at 07:25
Sorry one more off topic. Yes, you're right Richard, the Trilogy one was by Jakko not Steven Wilson, my apologies. And thinking about it, that is kind of a remix (additional backing vocals in The Sheriff and making the percussion louder in the piano ending of the same song spring to mind). |
Posted By: Terrapin Station
Date Posted: January 12 2017 at 09:52
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: January 12 2017 at 10:59
Proportionally or cumulatively? Like all cross-genre versions there is good and bad in all of them but regardless of the quality of the raw material the finished product has to stand up as a good example of the resulting genre of music. Prog reworkings of classical pieces have to be good pieces of Progressive Rock or the exercise is a waste studio time regardless of how the classical music world views them. Progressive Rock fans due to their eclectic nature and catholic tastes tend to be considerably more broadminded about other genres of music so are often more receptive to crossovers than say classic music fans so if one is drawn towards the IDM end of electronic music then it is quite possible to find such prog-techno remixes as something to be interested in ... as long as the released mix stands alone as good techno music. Unfortunately, neither of these do. While the source is decidedly not Prog, this I like: ------------- What? |
Posted By: Terrapin Station
Date Posted: January 12 2017 at 13:31
This is an example of that in my opinion.
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: January 12 2017 at 16:24
You are of course entitled to your opinion, but that isn't actually an opinion, it's an assumption, and as we know, assumptions are often wrong because they lack sufficient information to be a known fact. Opinions on the other hand are generally subjective so can be right for some people but not others.
No, I am saying that in my opinion (and this is a true subjective opinion) these two albums are particularly poor examples of techno remixes and they would be poor examples regardless of the source material being remixed. You like them, and that's fine, but don't get bent out of shape when other people don't find them to be quite as good as you do. Hell, I have an album of techno remixes of 1960s TV theme tunes that is immeasurable better than these and from a Prog perspective there are numerous Floyd techno and trance remixes out there that are also far better than the Re-works and Verge remixes (including some Floyd tracks that were reputedly remixed by The Orb). ------------- What? |
Posted By: Terrapin Station
Date Posted: January 13 2017 at 05:16
What's the difference between an opinion and an assumption on your view? It's not that opinions "have sufficient information to be a known fact" is it? For one, your following comment: "opinions on the other hand are generally subjective so can be right for some people but not others" wouldn't make much sense if opinions are characterized by "having sufficient information to be known facts."
That's not at all what was going on. I was just pointing out some observations about folks' opinions. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: January 13 2017 at 06:31
Of course they are different and they certainly are not synonyms. An opinion is a judgement formed on something that is not necessarily based upon facts or knowledge where an objective opinion is based on facts whereas a subjective opinion is not. However, an assumption is something that is stated without proof (i.e. without facts). An assumption differs from a subjective opinion because an assumption can either be true or false but not both (your assumption can be wrong) whereas a subjective opinion will always be true for the person making it (your subjective opinion is never wrong). Therefore your 'opinion' is an assumption because you do not know whether those people here who don't like your two examples of techno/prog crossovers actually like techno or techno-prog crossovers or not - you have assumed they do not without proof. If I (for example) like the Floyd techno remixes but not the ELP and Yes ones then any 'opinion' you have on my view of techno-prog remixes is wrong.
No, classical music fans would not be 'narrow minded and purism-oriented' if they liked rock and liked some classical/prog crossovers but not others, they would only be such if they didn't rock or didn't like all classical/rock crossovers. No one here has said they don't like all techno or all techno remixes of other genres.
Regardless of intent, that's not how it looks from here
 ------------- What? |
Posted By: Terrapin Station
Date Posted: January 13 2017 at 09:21
Your distinctions are a complete friggin mess, not to mention that you're invoking the idea of proof contra falsificationism. But okay, taking your distinctions for how you're stating them, you're saying that my opinion is framed as if it's an "objective opinion," but since it wasn't based on facts, it was just an assumption. Two big problems though: (1) Where did I say anything about whether anyone likes any techno or techno-prog crossovers? Could you quote where I said something about that? (2) What are your grounds for saying that anything I said in this thread about musical assessments was based only on what people said in this thread?
Where is the idea that the people I'm talking about like some classical/prog crossovers but not others coming from? |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: January 13 2017 at 11:10
I used what are essentially the dictionary definitions, so any mess is the result of my poorly worded explanations rather than what these words mean.
Okay then, clearly we have a huge misunderstanding here so please enlighten me - what is it you are saying exactly, and about whom, when you posted this then?
 ------------- What? |
Posted By: JD
Date Posted: January 13 2017 at 11:21
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It was an interesting if not failed attempt to capitalize on a fad at the time. I agree that the 1000 versions of Fanfare weren't necessary. I picked up both CD's at a used CD shop in the Detroit area and have maybe listened to them twice. I would much rather listen to the various arrangements that the bands themselves did when playing live. I've said it before, bands like ELP, Yes and Peter Gabriel who constantly remade their own songs in concert were a refreshing listen in most cases. I saw Supertramp at Joe Louis arena many many years ago and they just played their songs note for note from the album. I found it kinda boring and thought if that's what I wanted to hear I could just play the album and hear better fidelity. The "Remix" fad that you are indicating has happily been relegated to the the furthest annals of history. ------------- Thank you for supporting independently produced music |
Posted By: Terrapin Station
Date Posted: January 13 2017 at 11:24
I'll answer that, but hold on a minute--you're ignoring the questions I asked you. Are you saying that you simply assumed that I was making a claim that I wasn't making? Did you just assume that I said something about whether anyone likes any techno or techno-prog crossovers without me actually saying that?
And did you simply assume that I was only making comments based on what people have said in this thread, and not on other empirical evidence? |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: January 14 2017 at 01:51
No I didn't. I just responded to them differently.
I inferred rather than assumed but the end result is the same.
Nah, don't bother, I've lost interest in whatever the answer is. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Terrapin Station
Date Posted: January 14 2017 at 08:25
It wasn't something that you stated without proof (i.e. without facts), where it could be true or false but not both? |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: January 14 2017 at 10:25
An inference is a conclusion reached on the basis of evidence or reasoning, therefore it was not an assumption formed without facts but an inference since there was evidence in what you said and how you said it, albeit incomplete evidence. However since this evidence (i.e the facts) here were scant then the reasoning was evidently flawed and my interpretation of what you implied was apparently false. Both assumed and inferred conclusions can produce the same result so can be true or false but not both. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: January 14 2017 at 11:15
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Brain Salad Perjury is a crime against music. I'm one of the few that wrote a review of this aberration that came to my hands by accident:
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Posted By: Terrapin Station
Date Posted: January 14 2017 at 12:09
So you were saying that my comment, "I don't think that's true, though--that prog fans tend to be more broadminded. You'd expect that, but they seem to be just as narrow-minded and purism-oriented as fans of any sort of music are," wasn't based on any empirical evidence or reasoning whatsoever? |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: January 14 2017 at 12:49
Hang on, are you now saying that what you originally claimed was an opinion is now an inference? Okay - whatever floats your boat.  ------------- What? |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: January 14 2017 at 12:50
There's a huge difference between doing something new and just taking snippets of songs, adding a 4/4 electronic beat and nothing more. Give me good rock, good jazz, good POP, but don't butcher what it's already great. -------------
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Posted By: Tillerman88
Date Posted: January 14 2017 at 14:12
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"Progressive music is anything but purist in spirit." "Give me good rock, good jazz, good pop, but don't butcher what's already great" Yes.......... a thoughts that I've stumbled upon here quite a few times ... But hey I see no need for this, hell just look at out........ there's plenty of good music out there just waiting for literally anyone, here or anywhere, not just for the specialist, or the eclectic listener, or whoever on this planet might be concerned on music forums. The appreciation of good music doesn't need to attach any label to it, neither any previous estimation , nor any sort of music listening experience..............just think about that  .
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Posted By: Kolof
Date Posted: January 16 2017 at 00:17
MOST "remastered" versions of old albums sound terrible. Mainly due to overcompression. Cheers, J. ------------- Bass player for Longshot & Syrius Project |
Posted By: cemego
Date Posted: January 23 2017 at 18:42
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Why does everything have to be a dance remix? Why do we have to dance to music? Why cant we enjoy music without flailing about to it with our bodies like an idiot? Seems a little savage and pointless. Most of the time it's forced into this poor excuse for 4/4 timing that ruins everything anyway. What's next? Dance remix of Brian Eno's Thursday Afternoon? King Crimson's Larks Tongues in Aspic? Henry Cow's War? Could you even imagine how pointless any of this would be? Seriously ... Put your Novation Launchpads away and make some of your own original music.
------------- listen to streaming stuff! no commercials! http://wmom.servemp3.com:8000/listen.pls |
Posted By: brainstormer
Date Posted: January 24 2017 at 20:02
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Are there names that go with these remixes albums? Someone put a lot of time and skill into creating them. It would be kind of funny if they were not credited to any individuals. ------------- -- Robert Pearson Regenerative Music http://www.regenerativemusic.net Telical Books http://www.telicalbooks.com ParaMind Brainstorming Software http://www.paramind.net |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: January 26 2017 at 11:59
The Yes one was done by Steve Howe's son Dylan. If I remember rightly he did one track and played it to Steve who gave his approval, so he did a whole album. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: January 26 2017 at 14:13
It was the the pilot of Thunderbird 2, Virgil Howe ------------- What? |
Posted By: brainstormer
Date Posted: January 26 2017 at 15:50
Is that woman in your picture listening to one of your jokes? ------------- -- Robert Pearson Regenerative Music http://www.regenerativemusic.net Telical Books http://www.telicalbooks.com ParaMind Brainstorming Software http://www.paramind.net |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: January 28 2017 at 01:03
I was half right. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: January 28 2017 at 05:18
------------- What? |