1-2-3
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=110202
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Topic: 1-2-3
Posted By: resurrection
Subject: 1-2-3
Date Posted: February 09 2017 at 13:06
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Looking back over previous posts about the subject of this band and the question of them being the First Progressive Rock band. The answer now seems conclusive - Yes (and ELP and King Crimson). All were indebted to 1-2-3, as Sky TV's recent documentary "Trailblazers of Prog Rock" confirms. Interestingly (and perhaps appropriately), the focus was on 1-2-3, not the later incarnation, Clouds. Many recent major publications have also vindicated (and validated) the band. It's only taken forty years! Time for a long-overdue Prog award? The debt is certainly due.
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Replies:
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: February 09 2017 at 14:45
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Sure, but I don't know if I'd say they were all "indebted" to them, regardless of what a TV show says. The band was certainly an influence at the time, but when listened to, the band's prog quotient is fairly small and its symphonic quotient even smaller. Did 1-2-3 really contribute to prog rock itself(?) or was it more a matter of guys like Emerson and Squire and others seeing them on a few occasions and appreciating what they were doing. Prog was an evolutionary process. 1-2-3 deserves a posthumous honorary Prog award for recognition of their offerings perhaps, but I'm not sure too much more (though they do resemble what became the keyboard trio formula) .  ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: resurrection
Date Posted: February 09 2017 at 15:14
| Yes, "indebted" could indeed be said to be too strong, and your post contains a fine balance perhaps missing from my own. The only thing I'd point out is that (unfortunately) the Clouds' recordings are not indicative of what 1-2-3 was like, other than "Sing-Sing-Sing" (from "Up Above our Heads", the 2nd album). Other than the rough recording of "America" from 1967, there's nothing else on record. Nevertheless, there is no doubt that 1-2-3 were playing a version of what Prog became two years before it happened, and the award you suggest is more than fair, as is the qualification that "Prog was an evolutionary process". |
Posted By: NickHall
Date Posted: February 09 2017 at 15:42
| Saw the TV programme; bout time! 123 was the 1st prog rock group ok. |
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: February 09 2017 at 16:51
| They indeed deserve recognition, as many other prog or proto-prog bands of the era, that are hardly know today. |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: February 09 2017 at 17:13
| Were they before the Nice though or were they a direct influence on Keith Emerson? If you ask me I think the Nice deserve more recognition. Regardless, those who consider the Nice to be a proto prog band will probably say 1-2-3 and the Clouds were proto also. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: February 09 2017 at 20:19
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They reformatted in '64 as 1-2-3, so they were absolutely in existence and active before the Nice. Seems to me there is little doubt of their personal impact on British rock, but the question is were they 'The trailblazers of prog rock' ? Maybe, maybe not; How much trail must be blazed before something becomes what it became? And who were they taking inspiration from? When fully audited it is fairly clear they were not a prog band and maybe not even the nebulous 'protoprog' band, and so cannot be credited with anything other than what they actually did. What is clear is that rock itself is progressive, was and is a malleable art form, and appears to always have been in a chrysalitic state of development. All rock was progressing or has progressed past its initial stages and though Rock 'n Roll persisted as a singular entity, rock as a style is not bound to itself and was a simple enough and young enough form to allow such internal metamorphosis. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: DiamondDog
Date Posted: February 10 2017 at 12:36
| It's clear to me that 1-2-3 was playing a form of music that pre-empted Prog at least 2 yrs before the event, and the main stars of Prog certainly picked up on that. Then again, as Ritchie himself said on the documentary, Prog had many influences, and would have happened regardless. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: February 10 2017 at 22:52
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Conclusive my arse. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: February 11 2017 at 05:02
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This may very well be although I find it exceedingly peculiar that the continuation of this supposedly great prog band apparently lost all it's prog credentials (Clouds were a breezy melodic...erm let's just call em Art Rock band...but a long ways from what I'd personally call prog). At a time where prog rock was actually in and folks were buying it - it seems rather odd that the group ejected whatever it was that 1-2-3 had and supposedly influenced Fripp and his black hordes with. Dubious back pedalling also occurs in music history  ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: FunkyHomoSapien
Date Posted: February 11 2017 at 06:06
| Sky Trailblazers was good, apart from Noddy Holder's commentary. But great to see Clouds getting due credit, but forty years too late. |