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Do you think syd barrett is overrated

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Topic: Do you think syd barrett is overrated
Posted By: fatcat
Subject: Do you think syd barrett is overrated
Date Posted: April 08 2017 at 15:49
I think  he has  a cult following  because of 1970s Pink Floyd. I  do not hear much of his influence in rock music  besides  David Bowie and Marc Bolan citing syd barrett as an inspiration. I believed journalists over hype his importance in music

Furthermore journalists has  compared syd barrett to the  1970s British band Wire. I dont think Wire sounds like Syd Barrett .  I  could only hear Syd influence on some songs but not the entire album 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/reviews/p98c/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tL9v5eWYIyo



Replies:
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: April 08 2017 at 15:57
Firstly, Barrett left Floyd in 1968.   Second, you don't have to like his music in order to hear his influence, not so much on style or composition but on the liberties he took and what he saw was possible in rock music; it was Barrett's sense of adventure that left an indelible mark and made the psychedelia of the Beatles and Doors seem tame.





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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 08 2017 at 16:02
personally... I don't think he is overrated...  no one is calling him the father of prog... the father of psychedelic rock or the messiah of popular music or any of that sh*t. Then if he was...yeah... he'd be overrated like a motherf**ker.. but since he is not... he is not.

He has a lot of fans who like his contribution to early Floyd... nothing wrong with that.  No more than thinking the day he left Floyd is the day that group got really good and Roger took the creative helm haha.. not a fan of Syds material on Piper.  Perhaps it is a cultural thing but I don't really dig the whole English whimsy sh*t....


Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: April 08 2017 at 16:12
I don't hear his name mentioned often enough. He was a creative spirit that weaved his magic beyond the 'underground'. In no way would I class him in the overrated category.


Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: April 08 2017 at 16:19
Syd Barrett was a very gifted song writer and a musical visionary who was way ahead of his time.
I don't know if he is overrated because I didn't know he had a rating. What is his rating?


Posted By: Larkstongue41
Date Posted: April 08 2017 at 17:34
Underrated. Hardly ever mentioned in Floyd discussions and barely even known by most so-called Pink Floyd fans.

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"Larks' tongues. Wrens' livers. Chaffinch brains. Jaguars' earlobes. Wolf nipple chips. Get 'em while they're hot. They're lovely. Dromedary pretzels, only half a denar."


Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: April 08 2017 at 19:39
Absolutely not.

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Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: April 08 2017 at 20:25
No, he is treated with respect but not considered that significant, he was a minor figure and is treated as such.

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Ian

Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com

https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/


Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 08 2017 at 20:48
Not overrated. I think he has been significantly influential on indie rock, as well as plenty of other music.

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"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence" (Hitchens) and those who dismiss things too easily can be easily dismissed (Logan).


Posted By: mechanicalflattery
Date Posted: April 08 2017 at 21:02
He's rated pretty much as well as he should be, although I do think The Piper At The Gates of Dawn deserves more attention overall. His solo albums are quite good as well, although it's difficult to determine how much of their quality is attributable to him personally. 


Posted By: Thatfabulousalien
Date Posted: April 08 2017 at 21:07
Yes he is overrated, but not as much as the rest of Floyd

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Classical music isn't dead, it's more alive than it's ever been. It's just not on MTV.

https://www.soundcloud.com/user-322914325


Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: April 08 2017 at 22:15
If people go on about 40 to 60 minutes of so recordings that are now 50 years old then there must be something in it.

What is over rating?

I tend to regard Syd as a sort of Lewis Carroll of pyschedelia.

I doubt that Pink Floyd c. 1967 made the Doors sound tame. No one made the Doors sound tame.


Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: April 09 2017 at 03:00
No.

Roger Waters, yes definitely. Miserable old b*****d.


Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: April 09 2017 at 08:23
Who is this Syd?

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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: April 09 2017 at 10:04

I refuse to say that an artist is overrated, he has the rating he deserves.

But I can say that IMHO the best thing that could ever happen to Pink Floyd is the retirement of Syd Barrett, without Gilmour and Waters together, Pink Floyd would had been just a Psychedelic band that vanished in 1970 or 71 trapped in a dying genre.


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Posted By: socrates17
Date Posted: April 09 2017 at 15:01
Is the Sun overrated?  Is oxygen?  And he's had more influence than you may think.  Via Soft Boys and Robyn Hitchcock, who wear their appreciation on their sleeves, he's influenced the short-lived new psychedelia movement.  His Dadaist whimsy (shared by Robert Wyatt) influenced, among others, Pere Ubu.  A strong argument could be made that his space raveups like Intersellar Overdrive and Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun influenced the PF that immediately came after, and had a longer term influence in Hawkwind and many of the German bands such as Amon Duul II.  It's a stretch, because it came out only a few months earlier, but doesn't it bear considering that Astronomy Domine influenced to some degree the Stones album Their Satanic Majesties Request?


Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: April 09 2017 at 19:17
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:


I refuse to say that an artist is overrated, he has the rating he deserves.

But I can say that IMHO the best thing that could ever happen to Pink Floyd is the retirement of Syd Barrett, without Gilmour and Waters together, Pink Floyd would had been just a Psychedelic band that vanished in 1970 or 71 trapped in a dying genre.



I would say that it was Gilmour, Waters, AND Richard Wright. His importance to the sound of Pink Floyd should not be dismissed. If there's any doubt about it, just listen to The Wall and The Final Cut (his influence on The Wall was at it's minimal, I guess, and on The Final Cut... well, obviously he was not there).


Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: April 09 2017 at 22:01
He was instrumental in being the catalyst that ushered in the explosive boost in musical experimentation that the music world desperately needed in the mid 60s. While his gift to the world wasn't in longevity, he certainly was the main impetus for much of the experimental music that would come and even Pink Floyd members themselves clung on to his influneces long after he parted ways. So NOT overated. Who's rating him anyway?

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https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: April 10 2017 at 04:14
Syd developed a strange cult following, if not downright worship, after leaving Floyd and making two solo albums and was treated as if he was a musical genius on par with pre acid damaged Brian Wilson or Lennon/McCartney. Particularly in the UK, but in other the parts of world as well. Why this happened has always been a mystery to me. A cult of personality, perhaps.


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 10 2017 at 04:16
Of course Syd Barrett is overrated, it would be impossible for him not to be. Just as it is impossible for any cult figure not to be overrated: Jim Morrison, Nick Drake, Tim Buckley and Janis Joplin are all overrated by some and underappreciated by others. (Anyone who thought the antonym was 'underrated' go to the back of the class). Overrated is a misused and overused term that says very little about the artist being discussed and more about the people using it (not enough to leap to a conclusion thou') - if I said coffee is overrated that says more about me and my tastes than it does about coffee itself, however it doesn't mean you can deduce that I don't like coffee as a consequence; coffee-lovers will round on me and defend their love of coffee but that doesn't change my view that a grande skinny double-shot frappacappachino is just coffee. Syd Barrett was just a man with a guitar and some songs.

With some cult artists whose careers were cut short it is difficult to quantify their effect while with others it's piss-easy, anyone who dares to say Jimi Hendrix is overrated would be laughed out of the playground for example. It is easier still of course if that career was cut tragically short so elevation to cultdom was guaranteed by posthumous decree and universal public mourning. With Barrett it's not so easy because he didn't die so wasn't taken away leaving a hole of unrealised potential, but just withdrew from the public glare and with that sort of faded away. Yet with the benefit of hindsight and some understanding of context we can begin to see behind the myth and fable that has grown up around him. 

Speculation of his mental state, and the causes thereof, didn't really enter into the public consciousness until after the release of Wish You Were here, five years after his last solo album and some three years after Barrett had withdrawn from the music business. Between 1970 and 1973 Pink Floyd and Syd's Floyd were regarded by the media and fans alike as two separate entities, even their record company recognised this and tried to capitalise on the success of Meddle and Dark Side of the Moon with a budget-priced compilation and a retrospective repackaging of the two psychedelic-era Floyd albums as a toofa. As early as 1971 it was acceptable in Pink Floyd fandom to dismiss Piper and Saucerful, and all the 7" singles associated with them, as being relics of a different age, and with that to some extent, Syd Barrett. It seems strange today, but back then knowledge of a five-man Floyd was more of a rumour or myth than universal truth such that when David Bowie (following the release of Pin Ups) claimed to have seen a five-man Floyd perform on stage around 1967/8 it was met with doubt.

The seeds of Barrett's cult-status germinated around 1972 with the formation of the Syd Barrett Appreciation Society and its club fanzine ' http://www.lulu.com/shop/various/terrapin/ebook/product-18607486.html" rel="nofollow - Terrapin ', but were sown a year or two earlier following rumours of aborted sessions for a third solo album; the hole of unrealised potential that appears as a gaping chasm moments after the untimely death of a musical hero was beginning to form around Barrett while he was still alive, much like it had around Brian Wilson for similar reasons. The promise that Barrett revealed on Piper At The Gates was yet to be seen in his solo work (which in itself was fast becoming eclipsed by Pink Floyd's rise to stardom following the #1 chart success of Atom Heart Mother released a month prior to his second album), people were expecting more and that pressure to deliver shows in later analysis, not only in the documented accounts of the recording sessions that have subsequently surfaced, but also in Barrett's reaction to the reception the albums and his sporadic live shows received.

If everything stands or falls on just the body of work he released then the record is not a great one if you measure it at face-value fifty years later. It would seem incongruous that such a fractured and some would say naive collection of songs would have spored such a far-reaching reaction in so many people that you would be forgiven in mistaking this for misplaced adulation of the myth rather than recognition and appreciation of his work. This suggests there is far more to his work than just surface detail just as there is far more to the man than the myth that surrounds him, his innovation and creativity are reflected below any superficial evaluation of mere notes and words, and analysis of guitar and studio technique (though all are a worthy place to start). The sections covering his creative impact and cultural influence given on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syd_Barrett#Creative_impact_and_technical_innovation" rel="nofollow - Wikipedia , while far from being am exhaustive summary, suggests there is far more to this than just a bit of journalistic hype, nostalgia and faddish hipsterism. 


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What?


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 10 2017 at 04:32
NB: While my post follows Steve's, it's not written in response to anything he said. I'm good, but not even I can type 830 words (complete with hyperlinks) in 2 minutes. Wink

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What?


Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: April 10 2017 at 04:36
^ You wouldn't wanna be 'Captcha'd' with that post, eh ?!


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: April 10 2017 at 04:37
@Dean:
And I was good with your post. I do think that there is a difference when comparing Hendrix to Syd as Jimi was a virtuoso guitar player and puts him in a different category then Syd, IMO. However, the possibly of Jimi also ending up an "acid casualty", had he lived, was just as great as Syd's. I wonder how they would have compared had Jimi lived. 


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 10 2017 at 04:40
Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

^ You wouldn't wanna be 'Captcha'd' with that post, eh ?!
I was, several times, not only with posting it but also in the edits and when Previewing the post to proof-read it. Angry


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What?


Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: April 10 2017 at 04:55
^ Man, what a PITA - I'd cry


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 10 2017 at 04:55
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

@Dean:
And I was good with your post. I do think that there is a difference when comparing Hendrix to Syd as Jimi was a virtuoso guitar player and puts him in a different category then Syd, IMO. However, the possibly of Jimi also ending up an "acid casualty", had he lived, was just as great as Syd's. I wonder how they would have compared had Jimi lived. 
It's an interesting one. Hendrix famously toured with Syd's Floyd in 1967 though was somewhat dismissive of their music and didn't have anything to say about Barrett as such. I suspect that Barrett was as in awe of Hendrix as much as Gilmour was when he met Hendrix in Paris later that year. Barratt was never a virtuoso player but he was almost as innovative in his wanton abuse and misuse of the instrument and its effects pedals (without quite the theatrics of Hendrix and Townshend). As Henry Cow's Fred Frith observed in a series of articles entitled "Greatest Rock Solos of Our Time" published in NME way back then: " [Apples and Oranges] is my favourite wah-wah playing of all time – incredibly incisive and articulate. He makes the pedal hang always in the edge of feedback, which eventually breaks through as the final sound of the song."


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What?


Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: April 10 2017 at 20:37
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Of course Syd Barrett is overrated, it would be impossible for him not to be. Just as it is impossible for any cult figure not to be overrated: Jim Morrison, Nick Drake, Tim Buckley and Janis Joplin are all overrated by some and underappreciated by others. (Anyone who thought the antonym was 'underrated' go to the back of the class). Overrated is a misused and overused term that says very little about the artist being discussed and more about the people using it (not enough to leap to a conclusion thou') - if I said coffee is overrated that says more about me and my tastes than it does about coffee itself, however it doesn't mean you can deduce that I don't like coffee as a consequence; coffee-lovers will round on me and defend their love of coffee but that doesn't change my view that a grande skinny double-shot frappacappachino is just coffee. Syd Barrett was just a man with a guitar and some songs.

With some cult artists whose careers were cut short it is difficult to quantify their effect while with others it's piss-easy, anyone who dares to say Jimi Hendrix is overrated would be laughed out of the playground for example. It is easier still of course if that career was cut tragically short so elevation to cultdom was guaranteed by posthumous decree and universal public mourning. With Barrett it's not so easy because he didn't die so wasn't taken away leaving a hole of unrealised potential, but just withdrew from the public glare and with that sort of faded away. Yet with the benefit of hindsight and some understanding of context we can begin to see behind the myth and fable that has grown up around him. 

Speculation of his mental state, and the causes thereof, didn't really enter into the public consciousness until after the release of Wish You Were here, five years after his last solo album and some three years after Barrett had withdrawn from the music business. Between 1970 and 1973 Pink Floyd and Syd's Floyd were regarded by the media and fans alike as two separate entities, even their record company recognised this and tried to capitalise on the success of Meddle and Dark Side of the Moon with a budget-priced compilation and a retrospective repackaging of the two psychedelic-era Floyd albums as a toofa. As early as 1971 it was acceptable in Pink Floyd fandom to dismiss Piper and Saucerful, and all the 7" singles associated with them, as being relics of a different age, and with that to some extent, Syd Barrett. It seems strange today, but back then knowledge of a five-man Floyd was more of a rumour or myth than universal truth such that when David Bowie (following the release of Pin Ups) claimed to have seen a five-man Floyd perform on stage around 1967/8 it was met with doubt.

The seeds of Barrett's cult-status germinated around 1972 with the formation of the Syd Barrett Appreciation Society and its club fanzine ' http://www.lulu.com/shop/various/terrapin/ebook/product-18607486.html" rel="nofollow - Terrapin ', but were sown a year or two earlier following rumours of aborted sessions for a third solo album; the hole of unrealised potential that appears as a gaping chasm moments after the untimely death of a musical hero was beginning to form around Barrett while he was still alive, much like it had around Brian Wilson for similar reasons. The promise that Barrett revealed on Piper At The Gates was yet to be seen in his solo work (which in itself was fast becoming eclipsed by Pink Floyd's rise to stardom following the #1 chart success of Atom Heart Mother released a month prior to his second album), people were expecting more and that pressure to deliver shows in later analysis, not only in the documented accounts of the recording sessions that have subsequently surfaced, but also in Barrett's reaction to the reception the albums and his sporadic live shows received.

If everything stands or falls on just the body of work he released then the record is not a great one if you measure it at face-value fifty years later. It would seem incongruous that such a fractured and some would say naive collection of songs would have spored such a far-reaching reaction in so many people that you would be forgiven in mistaking this for misplaced adulation of the myth rather than recognition and appreciation of his work. This suggests there is far more to his work than just surface detail just as there is far more to the man than the myth that surrounds him, his innovation and creativity are reflected below any superficial evaluation of mere notes and words, and analysis of guitar and studio technique (though all are a worthy place to start). The sections covering his creative impact and cultural influence given on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syd_Barrett#Creative_impact_and_technical_innovation" rel="nofollow - Wikipedia , while far from being am exhaustive summary, suggests there is far more to this than just a bit of journalistic hype, nostalgia and faddish hipsterism. 




Well, I still don't fully understand the great hype on Jimi Hendrix. I just don't hear the greatness of his guitar playing, from the little I have heard, specially from his studio versions. Later, having heard some live albums, I think I find his playing there is much more interesting. However, I still prefer my prog guitar players.


Posted By: axeman
Date Posted: April 10 2017 at 23:01
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Well, I still don't fully understand the great hype on Jimi Hendrix. I just don't hear the greatness of his guitar playing, from the little I have heard, specially from his studio versions. Later, having heard some live albums, I think I find his playing there is much more interesting. However, I still prefer my prog guitar players.
Hendrix is known, by guitar players, by the feat of making a single guitar sound like two different guitars. He could play lead on the high 3 strings and provide his own rhythm on the low 3. He could hold a bar chord and still vibrato the melodic lead. 

His style was raucous, blues-based rock, so it's more raw and has more slop in it. He was more effect than technical display--except on songs like Little Wing. But he could do things with it that other people tried to match and failed. You have to know how many different finger positions were in one of his signature slide mordants, and how effortlessly they blend together in sound. And yet, you can watch Jimi on tape take a breath from singing and throw effortless fills in

Also, like any ground-breaker, kids picking up the guitar, started copying his technique. And so enough of his innovations are within the toolkit of a standard player these days. It's like watching Citizen Kane and noticing that you don't see anything that modern filmmakers don't do. And that's 100% true. But Well's techniques started to define film-making. (Still plenty of filmmakers these days don't construct mundane scenes from 4 overlays and glass mattes). 


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-John


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 11 2017 at 00:04
...and that is how you laugh someone out of the playground without making them feel bad. Clap

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What?


Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: April 11 2017 at 04:43
You could also add that Hendrix was held in high esteem by most 'prog' guitarists, particularly Mr Fripp. There is a reason why Hendrix was a fifth member of the Soft Machine way back when, and a frequent jam session partner with Keith Emerson. To know these things you have to get away from the mainstream press that focuses on drug use and other nonsense and read the accounts of the musicians themselves, such as books by Robert Wyatt and Eddie Kramer.


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: April 11 2017 at 07:01
Originally posted by axeman axeman wrote:

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Well, I still don't fully understand the great hype on Jimi Hendrix. I just don't hear the greatness of his guitar playing, from the little I have heard, specially from his studio versions. Later, having heard some live albums, I think I find his playing there is much more interesting. However, I still prefer my prog guitar players.
Hendrix is known, by guitar players, by the feat of making a single guitar sound like two different guitars. He could play lead on the high 3 strings and provide his own rhythm on the low 3. He could hold a bar chord and still vibrato the melodic lead. 

His style was raucous, blues-based rock, so it's more raw and has more slop in it. He was more effect than technical display--except on songs like Little Wing. But he could do things with it that other people tried to match and failed. You have to know how many different finger positions were in one of his signature slide mordants, and how effortlessly they blend together in sound. And yet, you can watch Jimi on tape take a breath from singing and throw effortless fills in

Also, like any ground-breaker, kids picking up the guitar, started copying his technique. And so enough of his innovations are within the toolkit of a standard player these days. It's like watching Citizen Kane and noticing that you don't see anything that modern filmmakers don't do. And that's 100% true. But Well's techniques started to define film-making. (Still plenty of filmmakers these days don't construct mundane scenes from 4 overlays and glass mattes). 
Plus Eric Clapton thought that Hendrix was God, and Pete Townsend claims that he was permanently psychologically damaged after witnessing Hendrix playing in his early London days. If any guitarists should know how good Hendrix was, these two should.

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This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.


Posted By: Pelata
Date Posted: April 11 2017 at 07:32
I think Syd Barrett is a case of perspective. Surely he connects with people in the modern era, but when he and his music first arrived? I'm sure it blew some minds and more than a few gaskets.


Posted By: brainstormer
Date Posted: April 11 2017 at 21:37
You do always have to ask what did music sound like before this person arrived.

It seems like every very innovative musician always had a background in other arts, as did Barrett.  All the arts are connected, when they're great.  


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--
Robert Pearson
Regenerative Music http://www.regenerativemusic.net
Telical Books http://www.telicalbooks.com
ParaMind Brainstorming Software http://www.paramind.net




Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: April 12 2017 at 04:11
To get back to the topic of Syd, my subjective impressions are one of an artist, that aside from his innovations and unique guitar playing, is of a person that was immensely likeable. Syd was mercurial, impish and was not trying to disturb you with his music. Yes, Astronomy Domine was scary and clever, but was also scary and fun. Very much like a scary rollercoaster ride. Syd was not trying to leave you scarred for life. His form of psychedelia was unique in this regard and I suggest that's one key reason for his high esteem among his devoted fans.


Posted By: Kepler62
Date Posted: April 12 2017 at 05:53
Let's imagine that the remaining members of Pink Floyd threw in the towel after Syd freaked out,  gave up on music because they had crossed the final plateau with Syd and became accountants and upper atmosphere physicists.


Posted By: Pelata
Date Posted: April 12 2017 at 06:10
Originally posted by Kepler62 Kepler62 wrote:

Let's imagine that the remaining members of Pink Floyd threw in the towel after Syd freaked out,  gave up on music because they had crossed the final plateau with Syd and became accountants and upper atmosphere physicists.


Oh god, let's not.


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: April 12 2017 at 08:19
Originally posted by Kepler62 Kepler62 wrote:

Let's imagine that the remaining members of Pink Floyd threw in the towel after Syd freaked out,  gave up on music because they had crossed the final plateau with Syd and became accountants and upper atmosphere physicists.
Yeah. And let's also imagine the Beatles throwing in the towel after releasing Love Me Do and working the rest of their lives in a rock quarry. Wacko 

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This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.


Posted By: Upbeat Tango Monday
Date Posted: April 12 2017 at 17:21
Overrated in Britain, underrated elsewhere

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Two random guys agreed to shake hands. Just Because. They felt like it, you know. It was an agreement of sorts...a random agreement.


Posted By: KingCrInuYasha
Date Posted: April 12 2017 at 20:57
Originally posted by Kepler62 Kepler62 wrote:

Let's imagine that the remaining members of Pink Floyd threw in the towel after Syd freaked out,  gave up on music because they had crossed the final plateau with Syd and became accountants and upper atmosphere physicists.


Please no. As much as I love the Syd era, the thought of no Dark Side Of The Moon is too much for me.


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He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball!


Posted By: miamiscot
Date Posted: April 13 2017 at 15:25
Yes, I do.


Posted By: Kepler62
Date Posted: April 14 2017 at 12:42
Thing is that Pink Floyd would have been quite different had Syd not lost his mind. I was pretty much done with them by The Wall. The losing your mind themes wore pretty thin. DSOTM has to be the most overplayed album of all time. How many times do I have to hear Comfortably Numb? You never hear any of Syd's stuff on mainstream radio nor do they ever mention him. By far my favourite album by Floyd is  Animals. 


Posted By: hellogoodbye
Date Posted: April 14 2017 at 14:10
Pink floyd is overrated, not Syd. 


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: April 16 2017 at 07:23
Hi,

I'm not sure what "overrated" really means, but as a "writer" of poetry and stories, I would suggest that Syd Barrett stands way up there ... however, we don't always think of rock music as an artistic endeavor and think that lyrics that TELL YOU what they are about are more interesting than a story about a mouse that I call Gerald, the humor and satire of which is way out there in terms of literature. 

Let's face it ... how do you compare one of those early songs, with a Chuck Berry song in terms of lyrics ... you don't. One is not about your willy, so to speak. It's about something else that most poetry and writers work on, even if you call it "cleverness" or something else. Like the Oxford/Cambridge connection is not similar and almost the same.

I would not use Syd Barrett's solo albums as an example at all, although some lyrics are OK, however, the music used was no longer "interpretive" of the words, as the earlier songs were, and the adventure and the liveliness and fun that was with some of his early lyrics, was wasted, and I think that this is what hurt his words, more than anything else. But that way of interpreting his early work, must give a lot of care and attention to the other three members that nurtured the songs so well. On Syd's solo albums, maybe one or two songs were nurtured and the rest was just throw away stuff that made Syd look bad and out of it, which of course, history seems to tell us he was.

I'm sure there were other writers and artists that were much more out of it, that were also "underrated" and "overrated". But most "song writing" in the rock music era, is not that artistic and that intelligent, though some of them are very pointed and strong. And some are way out there to the point that no one knows what it means ... heck, folks are still trying to interpret Milton and Shakespeare, and all come off differently!


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... none of the hits, none of the time ... favoritism is not an artistic merit! www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: aglasshouse
Date Posted: April 16 2017 at 12:05
In terms of Pink Floyd or just him in general? I assume the former. If so, yes I think he is. People who think Piper is PF's best album are mental imo. He was a fairly competent psych musician for his time, but he wasn't really anything too special.

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http://fryingpanmedia.com


Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 16 2017 at 13:00
I read the initial post as framing overrated in terms of Syd Barrett's influence on rock music generally being overstated, and not just in terms of his influence on Pink Floyd or just for his contribution to Pink Floyd. I don't know what most people think who are aware of him, but I do believe that his influence on indie rock as well as other forms of music is not to be sneezed at.

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"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence" (Hitchens) and those who dismiss things too easily can be easily dismissed (Logan).


Posted By: Kepler62
Date Posted: April 17 2017 at 06:56
Originally posted by aglasshouse aglasshouse wrote:

In terms of Pink Floyd or just him in general? I assume the former. If so, yes I think he is. People who think Piper is PF's best album are mental imo. He was a fairly competent psych musician for his time, but he wasn't really anything too special.

If Pink Floyd hadn't capitalized on his freaking out he would have been lost to time and if he didn't freak out Pink Floyd would have turned out quite different. Maybe they would have just become a washed out psychedelic band. For me Syd's solo albums are un-listenable.


Posted By: KingCrInuYasha
Date Posted: April 17 2017 at 11:13
I don't think his material is that unlistenable, though I admit, I would rather hear a version "If It's In You" arranged in the style of My Favorite Things-era John Coltrane than the creaky original.

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He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball!


Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: April 17 2017 at 20:48
I do love some of the covers Gilmour has done of Barrett songs.


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: April 18 2017 at 07:18
Hi,

"Overrated in Britain, underrated elsewhere..."

I agree and disagree, being multi-national and having lived in 3 different countries. In both england and America, since the 1960's, the media has been exceedingly strong, and in love with themselves to the point where anything they said, "was right", and in the end, it was in the name of commerciality ... which benefitted both countries really well when it came to their artists, and films as well. Even Fellini, did not get as much attention in Italy, for example, since even their studio couldn't stand him, and the same thing in Tokyo with Akira Kurosawa.

That made it more difficult for other countries to be reviewed and written about, on par with many of these continentals (American and British), which I think created a two headed monster that pretty much states, nowadays, it all has to be in English, or its crap. many fans, here, still cringe about the foreign languages thing, as if the emotion and the feel of the music itself required any lyrics to show up and talk to you!

Thus, it is easier to think that Syd Barrett is this and that, and others are not. And the fact that PF went on about him in at least two other albums, made it look like there was something to it all in the back of everyone's mind, that the band had to deal with.

There is an issue, even here, of undcerstanding and getting some information as how/what happened, even in the 1960's, and our Southern California FM radio experience during that time, that was hard to recognize even by Dean standards. And it became the history of the "progressive music" by default, by the Brittish, and anyone else saying anything is not correct and few people are even capable of adding to it, subrtracting, and not get involved in the personal thing. I can tell you what I saw and experienced. I can not argue with anyone that thinks that what I went through as a person during that time, is not a valid experience, because their view is more complete and important than mine!

We're all right, and at the same time, we're all also wrong. What happened to one is not the same as another, but what sometimes I think that someone is objecting to, is that a foreigner is talking about their Gods ... and they are not my Gods ... and we already know how that discussion goes around the world. Stupid and worst results in the name of essentially ignorance.

IF, we want to expand our "progressive music", we have to allow and expand, on our views and critical studies. Making fun of them, and breaking up the thread, should not be allowed and that should be on the hand of the moderators, who tend to favor their friends, and not the subject at hand.

Over-rated or not ... depends on our complete view of the whole thing, not just as a favorite, but other than a handful of us, I have not met many who appreciate the early material as much as the later material. I have preferencesm yes I do, but the writing and quality of the poetry and wording in Syd's pieces, and almost second to none in the history of pop music, and they are very special, and show a side of English/British literacy that is not always visible in a lot of their material ... what with the media's interest in the fad's ... instead of the art of it all.


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... none of the hits, none of the time ... favoritism is not an artistic merit! www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: Juan K
Date Posted: April 26 2017 at 02:07
Yes, I think he is VERY overrated.


Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: April 29 2017 at 02:45
I'm pretty sure competency, conventional ability or even influence have nothing to do with the continuing fascination for Syd Barrett. He had a way of combining words, chords and melody that no-one had ever done previously or since.


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Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: April 29 2017 at 04:32
^Simple as.

I can't help but think most of these overrated threads merely are eufemisms of 'I don't like Floyd/Genesis/Everly Brothers/Burt Reynolds/Margareth Thatcher/Mozart/Pol Pot and if you do - you're about as thick as a bluewhale of the cloth.'

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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 29 2017 at 05:18
^ Pretty much.

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What?


Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: April 29 2017 at 05:40
I love the 'Barrett' album. May even give it a spin real soon......
He's no genius, but a truly unique and artistic individual you either like him or you don't.....



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