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Larks Tongues vs. Starless + Bible Black

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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=111410
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Topic: Larks Tongues vs. Starless + Bible Black
Posted By: thebeastmustdie
Subject: Larks Tongues vs. Starless + Bible Black
Date Posted: June 27 2017 at 08:36
just revisiting these albums for the first time in years (had a clear out of my old CD boxes).

to me both represent KC at their near peak - although neither is as good as Red (imo).

interested to see if you prog experts have a clear favourite, out of the two?!



Replies:
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: June 27 2017 at 08:38
Tonguey Larks 

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Posted By: Magnum Vaeltaja
Date Posted: June 27 2017 at 08:52
Larky Tongues

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Posted By: AZF
Date Posted: June 27 2017 at 09:14
Very close, both different. SABB has a !of of live recordings compared to LTIA.
I used to know someone who got into King Crimson but wouldn't go any further than Earthbound.
I feel he really missed out on the bands greater work.
Very close! SABB has a great beginning and ending to the album than LTIA.
But the music gets more intricate on LTIA.
Going with LTIA.


Posted By: Wanorak
Date Posted: June 27 2017 at 09:18
Larks Tongues.

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Posted By: digdug
Date Posted: June 27 2017 at 09:51
Larks for me as well


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Prog On!


Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: June 27 2017 at 09:55
Feel like joining the choir.

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Posted By: Mormegil
Date Posted: June 27 2017 at 11:06
Chirp.

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Posted By: Evolver
Date Posted: June 27 2017 at 12:28
Starless is great, but Larks' Tongues is transcendent.

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Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: June 27 2017 at 12:47
hmm, not really into KC after Islands, but Larks gets the edge, although "The Night Watch" beats anything on that album


Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: June 27 2017 at 13:16
I prefer Larks, but not by much.

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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: June 27 2017 at 13:29
Very close, Today I'll go with Starless. Tomorrow: Larks.

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Posted By: DeadSouls
Date Posted: June 27 2017 at 13:48
Larks


Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: June 27 2017 at 15:07
Shark dongs for me as well. It is my favourite Crimson album together with Lizard. Starless & Bible Black though contains their best tune in Fracture.


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Posted By: jayem
Date Posted: June 27 2017 at 15:12
Lark's Tongues takes me to those organic wild landscapes while SABB goes into (abandoned) sub-urban sites (with old concrete etc). I'd prefer open air but LTIA arrangements and transitions could be improved. Exiles and Easy Money not that great... Even if the LTIA summits are a bit higher, SABB has more to offer so I go for it

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Posted By: thebeastmustdie
Date Posted: June 27 2017 at 15:32
ok cheers for the votes/replies... bit surprised how one-sided it is, but I agree with the majority opinion here as well tbh

I have the 2000 Starless CD remaster and in the liner notes theres a couple of pages with original album reviews of it from the time. interestingly most say or imply Starless is their best album yet.

the Sounds magazine review even says this:

"Larks Tongues In Aspic palled very quickly as an album, especially when you'd seen them play a good gig, but this one --- I suspect --- will maintain its ability to hold you through a sequence of twists and turns much longer than its predecessor."


Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: June 27 2017 at 15:40
LTIA. Haven't we been here before ??


Posted By: Larkstongue41
Date Posted: June 27 2017 at 15:52
Too close, can't decide. Since I got The Great Deceiver boxset, I've grown to love Starless & Bible Black almost as much as Larks. Trio and the title track are two of the very best improvisations I have ever heard. Normally I would have picked Larks without hesitation but I've listened to S&BB sooo much lately.

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"Larks' tongues. Wrens' livers. Chaffinch brains. Jaguars' earlobes. Wolf nipple chips. Get 'em while they're hot. They're lovely. Dromedary pretzels, only half a denar."


Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: June 27 2017 at 17:14
Cannot choose, really.


Posted By: maryes
Date Posted: June 27 2017 at 18:07
Larks Tongues in Aspic is my favorite KC álbum, but, Starless is great !


Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: June 27 2017 at 19:31
Starless and Bible Black nowadays.

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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: June 27 2017 at 21:11
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Shark dongs for me as well. It is my favourite Crimson album together with Lizard. Starless & Bible Black though contains their best tune in Fracture.


Shouldn't it be Shark's Lungs in Lemsip, or something like that?


Posted By: tboyd1802
Date Posted: June 28 2017 at 06:02
I have a real soft spot for SABB - my first King Crimson album. But, LTIA is the stronger statement of the new musical direction that would define, what is for me the greatest period in KC's illustrious history...

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Posted By: O666
Date Posted: June 28 2017 at 07:42
Larks easily! Emm ... Emm Ermm  No not easily.


Posted By: Olape
Date Posted: June 28 2017 at 09:08
Originally posted by O666 O666 wrote:

Larks easily! Emm ... Emm Ermm  No not easily.
 
LOL
For years and years I preferred LTIA, but SABB still grows increasingly. So, today I really can't decide...


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Posted By: frankbostick
Date Posted: June 28 2017 at 10:20
LTIA 5 stars
SABB 4 stars


Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: June 28 2017 at 11:09
SABB was my first Crimso album and gets my vote.  Besides, I like the live versions of the Larks Tongues songs much better than the studio versions Wink

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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: June 28 2017 at 20:57
Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:

SABB was my first Crimso album and gets my vote.  Besides, I like the live versions of the Larks Tongues songs much better than the studio versions Wink


Mostly, I do like the live versions from Larks Tongues better too. Actually, I couldn't get into Larks part 1 until I heard the live version from the new line-up (the jazzy flute in the middle chaotic section really helps to round up the song, plus, it sounds nicely heavier). I don't really care for Book of Saturday in any version. Exiles is beautiful, but the live version from Ausbury Park (the same concert from the USA album, but I have that concert from Collectable King Crimson) is so much more powerful. Easy Money is also better live either from that same 70's line-up, or from the new one. However, even though they may sound heavier and stronger live, the duo The Talking Drum and Larks Tongues 2 sound better on their original studio versions... I feel the soft nuances are lost live, as well as the great interplay between Bruford and Muir (as well as the crazy playing of the later).


Posted By: Pekka
Date Posted: June 28 2017 at 23:34
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:

SABB was my first Crimso album and gets my vote.  Besides, I like the live versions of the Larks Tongues songs much better than the studio versions Wink


Mostly, I do like the live versions from Larks Tongues better too. Actually, I couldn't get into Larks part 1 until I heard the live version from the new line-up (the jazzy flute in the middle chaotic section really helps to round up the song, plus, it sounds nicely heavier). I don't really care for Book of Saturday in any version. Exiles is beautiful, but the live version from Ausbury Park (the same concert from the USA album, but I have that concert from Collectable King Crimson) is so much more powerful. Easy Money is also better live either from that same 70's line-up, or from the new one. However, even though they may sound heavier and stronger live, the duo The Talking Drum and Larks Tongues 2 sound better on their original studio versions... I feel the soft nuances are lost live, as well as the great interplay between Bruford and Muir (as well as the crazy playing of the later).

I bought USA before I did Larks, and the studio version of Exiles was for a long time a big disappointment after the brilliant live version. Nowadays I can appreciate the more delicate approach, but I too prefer the live versions of pretty much all the tracks on Larks, particularly those found on USA and the Night Watch live album where much of the SABB material comes from.

I think Larks has stronger material overall (SABB does have a few great tracks as well), but SABB has better sound and performance. In the end it's very close to a tie.


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Posted By: thebeastmustdie
Date Posted: June 29 2017 at 07:29
ooh, tension. Starless has staged a mini-comeback...

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Shark dongs for me as well. It is my favourite Crimson album together with Lizard. Starless & Bible Black though contains their best tune in Fracture.


Shouldn't it be Shark's Lungs in Lemsip, or something like that?

wasnt that the Weird Al Yankovic parody version


Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: June 29 2017 at 20:49
Originally posted by thebeastmustdie thebeastmustdie wrote:

ooh, tension. Starless has staged a mini-comeback...

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Shark dongs for me as well. It is my favourite Crimson album together with Lizard. Starless & Bible Black though contains their best tune in Fracture.


Shouldn't it be Shark's Lungs in Lemsip, or something like that?

wasnt that the Weird Al Yankovic parody version


There's a song with that name in The Great Deceiver box set. Though I think it was just a short improv or something of the sort.


Posted By: geekfreak
Date Posted: June 29 2017 at 23:34
way to close to call...IMHO!

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Posted By: thebeastmustdie
Date Posted: June 30 2017 at 02:15
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:


There's a song with that name in The Great Deceiver box set. Though I think it was just a short improv or something of the sort.

ah right... made me laugh anyway.


Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: July 01 2017 at 17:34
Originally posted by Larkstongue41 Larkstongue41 wrote:

Too close, can't decide. Since I got The Great Deceiver boxset, I've grown to love Starless & Bible Black almost as much as Larks. Trio and the title track are two of the very best improvisations I have ever heard. Normally I would have picked Larks without hesitation but I've listened to S&BB sooo much lately.
Yes, 'Deceiver does a lovely job of promoting Starless', and the latter comes off as plain brilliant as a result. As for my vote, pick it.

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Posted By: thwok
Date Posted: July 09 2017 at 06:59
Good God, how do you consider two of the greatest things in existence, and pick which one is better?  I'm going with STARLESS AND BIBLE BLACK.  It seems to me that with LARKS TONGUES IN ASPIC, the band took all these great, but disparate, ideas they had, and combined them into a few compositions.  As a result, the album occasionally meanders.  I slightly prefer STARLESS AND BIBLE, which balances shorter and longer songs.     

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Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: July 09 2017 at 07:15
Impossible to separate them with regards merit. Both are inimitable masterpieces in my book


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Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: July 09 2017 at 10:11
"Fracture" and "Night Watch" almost convinced me for SAAB, but I went LTIA for this one.  Both are brilliant.


Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: July 09 2017 at 11:12
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

"Fracture" and "Night Watch" almost convinced me for SAAB, but I went LTIA for this one.  Both are brilliant.

Agreed. I think LTIA is the more important and original of the two, as it clearly points the direction for both SABB and Red. Love "Night Watch" though. 


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Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: July 09 2017 at 13:42
Originally posted by Pekka Pekka wrote:

I bought USA before I did Larks, and the studio version of Exiles was for a long time a big disappointment after the brilliant live version. Nowadays I can appreciate the more delicate approach, but I too prefer the live versions of pretty much all the tracks on Larks, particularly those found on USA and the Night Watch live album where much of the SABB material comes from.

Same here.  When I 1st heard LTIA I was bitterly disappointed in the songs compared to USA.  Nowadays I enjoy them both in different ways...USA/Night Watch are albums to crank up on loud speakers while LTIA is an album for headphones Wink


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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: July 09 2017 at 14:20
Most of Starless was a live album edited to have the crowd sound taken out. It's very good but LTIA is my favorite KC album.


Posted By: Kepler62
Date Posted: July 09 2017 at 15:29
Too close can't decide. I look at those three albums as a three album set because I bought all three of them together back in the seventies. All three simply astonished me and I went out and bought USA the week after. Must have listened to them over a hundred times in that week.  


Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: July 09 2017 at 21:17
Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:

Originally posted by Pekka Pekka wrote:

I bought USA before I did Larks, and the studio version of Exiles was for a long time a big disappointment after the brilliant live version. Nowadays I can appreciate the more delicate approach, but I too prefer the live versions of pretty much all the tracks on Larks, particularly those found on USA and the Night Watch live album where much of the SABB material comes from.

Same here.  When I 1st heard LTIA I was bitterly disappointed in the songs compared to USA.  Nowadays I enjoy them both in different ways...USA/Night Watch are albums to crank up on loud speakers while LTIA is an album for headphones Wink


Something similar happened to me. I got a live album, called Collectible King Crimson Vol. 1 (it includes 2 concerts, one of them actually the same one from the USA album, but without edits nor overdubs) before I got Red. Now, the version of Starless from the concert that is not the same from USA became the one that made me love that song. Once I finally heard the studio version I was very dissapointed that it didn't include David Cross's violin (since he was credited to appear in the album, I thought this would be the song where he would have played). Also, the final climax of the song sounded rather weak compared to the guitars and the way Bruford played the drums on that particular live version.


Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: July 10 2017 at 01:16
Larks. I was never that keen on most of Palmer-James' lyrics no matter how much  enjoy hearing Wetton sing. Larks better organized as an album. Remove Fracture from SABB and it loses a lot of impetus. It's based around that classic piece.

Idle speculation moment. Imagine if Red had a studio version of SABB before Starless instead of the edited improv Providence. And RPJ fixed up some of his slightly dorky lyrics. Probably should have got Wetton writing lyrics. Oh well, too late now.


Posted By: Terra Australis
Date Posted: July 10 2017 at 03:17
Starless.
Because of Fracture! Immense...


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Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: February 27 2018 at 02:25
Lark's.

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Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: February 27 2018 at 02:31
Starless is really great too, but Lark to me.



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