Magma vs Van der Graaf Generator
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Polls
Forum Description: Create polls on topics related to progressive music
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=111673
Printed Date: April 20 2024 at 01:51
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Magma vs Van der Graaf Generator
Posted By: YESESIS
Subject: Magma vs Van der Graaf Generator
Date Posted: August 06 2017 at 19:29
| These are two bands that seem to each have their loyal fans on here.. Plus they're both bands that I'm currently TRYING to get into at the moment. So, I'll let you all decide. |
Replies:
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: August 06 2017 at 19:34
|
I decide that these VS. categories are unnecessary. I love both. Why the competition? Can't we simultaneously hold many loves in our heart? -------------  https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: August 06 2017 at 19:39
You must pick one!  No, that's totally cool.. You love both equally, I respect that.
|
siLLy puPPy wrote:Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: August 06 2017 at 20:21
You are so USAmerican! I don't have to pick one and i won't. More truthfully, i can't! They are both classic and my life would be all the more empty without both in my life. Sorry to ruin the fun, but VDGG and Magma? Why not just pick a battle between you kidney and heart for #@&%'$ sake?  ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: August 06 2017 at 20:23
| VdGG for me. But mostly because I know them much better. Only heard a few pieces from Magma a few times. The first time I checked them out I thought they just didn't do it for me. The second time I thought that perhaps, if I gived them I try, I might be able to end up getting some enjoyment from their music. However, I still haven't given them that other try. |
Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: August 06 2017 at 21:30
I think you may be taking this whole thing just a little bit more seriously than is necessary here lol. But seriously I feel your pain. If you made a poll between Genesis and Yes.. that would also be a problem for me because Genesis used to be my favorite band, and I even told everyone, "Peter Gabriel is THE MAN." But I also was a huge fan of Phil Collins(still am), even his solo stuff and everything. But I've now come to the conclusion that Yes are the prog masters, period. So yeah I, like you, would not be able to vote in that one.. just too painful of a choice at this point.
 |
Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: August 06 2017 at 21:31
Well you may be the deciding vote here if this one ends 1 - 0 lol. Appreciate your honesty.
|
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: August 06 2017 at 21:34
|
Actually i don't think i'm taking this too seriously. I'm just wondering what are the inner reasons for even conceiving such a notion of comparison? I mean, why the competition? Why does it matter to you as to who deems one or the other as the better band? It's just not computing. I'm sorry that i'm picking on your thread because these things pop up on a daily basis. I'm just curious as to why you give a baboon's ass why anyone loves one over the other. I sure as BLEEP don't. ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: August 06 2017 at 21:47
| Well the only reason I care at all is because these are two bands that have somehow escaped my attention(yeah I know I'm terrible). But now that I'm on here and see that they both have very loyal fans I want to try to get into them. So it made sense in my mind to make a poll comparing them. If it doesn't to you I'm sorry. And if you truly are that passionate about both bands then, like I said, I really do feel your pain. |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: August 06 2017 at 23:10
| BOTH !!! Not one over the other. Even with a gun to my head.........just pull the trigger. |
Posted By: ALotOfBottle
Date Posted: August 07 2017 at 02:11
| Voted for Magma way too quickly. When the message "Thank you for voting in this poll" appeared, I suddenly felt crippling pain in my whole body and had the heavy section of "Man-Erg" pounding in my head. That being said, I voted for Magma at first, because I listen to them a bit more, but had I thought about it just a bit longer, I could have been easily quoting Tom's above post. Oh well, that comes with a lesson for me. Love both bands to bits. And now, I can't really decide which one I like more. |
Posted By: beeebon
Date Posted: August 07 2017 at 02:54
|
Love both but listen to VDGG more |
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: August 07 2017 at 07:06
| VDGG gets my vote. Magma is also a great band. |
Posted By: CosmicVibration
Date Posted: August 07 2017 at 07:27
|
tough one, but most days i'd go for Magma. |
Posted By: miamiscot
Date Posted: August 07 2017 at 09:11
| I voted for VDGG (and Hillary Clinton...) |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: August 07 2017 at 10:41
|
Love both but VDGG just sneaks over the line first. ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: August 07 2017 at 11:20
|
VdGG any day and all day Sunday. ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: Tuzvihar
Date Posted: August 07 2017 at 11:46
Magma for De Futura alone, one of my favourite compositions ever!!  Though I love VDGG as well. ------------- "Music is much like f**king, but some composers can't climax and others climax too often, leaving themselves and the listener jaded and spent." Charles Bukowski |
Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: August 07 2017 at 12:21
De Futura is a masterpiece and my fave Magma piece, but VDGG is in my top 5 fave all time bands so gets the vote  ------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: August 07 2017 at 13:16
|
Now that i think about it, i would love to hear the two bands do an album together. Van Magma Generator would rock! ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 07 2017 at 13:25
Vander Graaf Generator ------------- Just a fanboy passin' through. |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: August 07 2017 at 14:47
Doh! You win! That is perfect :) OK, their first album could be called Kobaiabluff ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: August 07 2017 at 18:32
| I don't know if you're supposed to vote in your own poll or not on here.. but I just voted for Magma. To help them out a little since they're way behind, and also because listening to a lot of their stuff I'm starting to get really into it! I wasn't able to that much with Van der Graaf Generator except for the second song on Pawn Hearts. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 07 2017 at 19:14
Or, erm, ah, The Least We Can Do Iss Udu Wudo To Each Other.  You win that one. ------------------------------------------------------- Anyway, I love both and my first inclination is not to choose, but there is more so much more Magma that I have and love. Between, studio and live albums, compilations etc., I think I have more Magma albums than by any other, save Ennio Morricone. ------------- Just a fanboy passin' through. |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: August 08 2017 at 02:46
|
Hard to choose. Van der Graaf Generator just over Magma. ------------- 
|
Posted By: Quinino
Date Posted: August 08 2017 at 03:26
|
I'm a sucker for everything PH related, in or out of VDGG (but specially in) |
Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: August 08 2017 at 11:07
|
The Graaf ------------- |
Posted By: Wanorak
Date Posted: August 08 2017 at 15:54
|
VDGG, no contest. ------------- A GREAT YEAR FOR PROG!!! |
Posted By: socrates17
Date Posted: August 08 2017 at 17:30
| I adore VdGG and they've been central to my life since H to He, but Magma invented a new kind of music so I had to vote for them. |
Posted By: Upbeat Tango Monday
Date Posted: August 08 2017 at 18:31
|
VDGG ------------- Two random guys agreed to shake hands. Just Because. They felt like it, you know. It was an agreement of sorts...a random agreement. |
Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: August 09 2017 at 18:38
|
Wow, this is getting to be a blowout here. Maybe I need to give VdGG another chance.. Also I realize now that I should have included a third option like, "I'm too passionate about both bands! I just.. I can't choose. I won't!" This is literally my first poll on here so I'm still learning, but in the future some third option like that will be included.
|
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 09 2017 at 18:54
|
While most fans I know who are into Magma are also fans of VdGG, I know many who love VdGG who don't care much for Magma. Quite a few people don't like either band, as well. ------------- Just a fanboy passin' through. |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: August 09 2017 at 18:58
| I like both bands a lot but voted for VDGG. It would seem that both are a bit of an acquired taste also so for that reason this is a very good matchup. |
Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: August 09 2017 at 19:07
|
I know many who think I am a psychopath when I put on some VdGG and Magma. There's one dude, a long time ago, at a party who completely freaked out when he heard 'A Louse is not a Home'. The poor guy wasn't amused at all. ------------- |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: August 09 2017 at 19:26
| I remember reading once where a guy who had a female roomate who said that Magma(I think MDK in particular) was the worst music she ever heard. Lol. |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: August 09 2017 at 21:16
I don't know what you have heard from this band, nor if my selection would work the same for you, buy my particular very favourite songs from this band are: "Darkness", "Man-Erg", "A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers" (first half for me, after that it gets a bit too messy for my taste), "The Sleepwalkers", and "La Rossa". You might add "Refugees", though it's a bit too poppy for a band like this, but just because of that it can be a rather good gateway song for someone having trouble digesting their music. |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: August 09 2017 at 21:39
| I have to say here : when I first heard Crimso, it was their debut, then Lizard. I fell in love instantly. My first Magma dbl vinyl in 1989 was the Live album. I was too stoned to understand it then. To me, it was Satanic Jazz. It repulsed me. Fast forward 8 years of so, I picked up Udu Wudu and Attahk at a 1999 record fair. From then on, I was (sober and) hooked. Give it time. Similar story with VDGG, though I'm not advocating that you need to smoke dope to get into these guys - I'm (obviously) just a dumb-f**k that did it this way...... I'm sure there are many others...... |
Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: August 10 2017 at 19:18
Ok, I'll have to check out those songs. I was listening to H to He and liked the first two songs, but the lyrics seemed pretty dark idk.
|
Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: August 10 2017 at 19:21
| Thank you all for your responses so far. Sounds like most Magma fans also like VdGG, but not necessarily the other way around. Which is odd because I'm really clicking with Magma a lot, but so far having trouble forming any real connection with VdGG. |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: August 10 2017 at 21:23
Actually, it seems you chose the album I liked the least from the first albums I got from them. And yeah, those songs you mention are the ones I liked better, but for me the ones I wrote before were better. Perhaps you should have started with "The Least we can do"... also the first two songs are the better ones, but so much better to get one into the band than those from H to He. As for the lyrics, I haven't payed so much attention to them, but indeed they seem to be somewhat dark... and very well thought... some of the better ones from prog, but indeed I should check them out and analize them better. However, I don't see why these dark lyrics should be a detriment for the music, it's not like he's trying to convince people to do atrocities and all. Crimson's first album has lyrics at least as dark as these ones (what darker lyrics could you want than "Epitaph"?). And the lyric for Killer are actually rather silly, talking about a shark wanting to have friends and every fish in the ocean trying to escape him. |
Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: August 10 2017 at 22:21
Yeah, I guess you have a point.. I probably shouldn't let the dark lyrics stop me. Karn Evil 9 has some dark lyrics lol(and other obvious songs by them). But somehow with this band it seems more serious(just the way the guy sings.. a lot of passion I'll give him that). Anyway, I'll try to get to those songs you recommended. Thanks for your input.
|
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: August 11 2017 at 21:08
Peter Hamill is for me a force to be reckoned with in prog, and a very unique singer. He just doesn't go the obvious way, and that makes it difficult for some people to like him, but I do apreciate his unique aproach at singing. There are times that it seems there's at least two different singers in the same song, while it's all him. |
Posted By: MFP
Date Posted: August 12 2017 at 09:29
| Both top 10 bands for me. Magma need a vote. |
Posted By: Dopeydoc
Date Posted: August 12 2017 at 11:55
| Magma! |
Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: August 12 2017 at 17:13
| Come on Magma!!! However I have been listening to more VdGG and realized that both 'White Hammer' and 'Man-Erg' seem to have happy endings. And not that I necessarily need that in a song but it does give me a little more faith in this band moving forward lol. I truly WANT to like them, so we'll see what happens. Thank you all for your responses so far. |
Posted By: irrelevant
Date Posted: August 17 2017 at 19:44
|
Magma grabbed me big time. Van der Graaf are yet to... ------------- https://gabebuller.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - New album! http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385 |
Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: August 17 2017 at 20:58
Same |
Posted By: zwordser
Date Posted: August 24 2017 at 16:43
|
Last week I would have said VDGG, but Magma really blew me away with their incredible performance at Psycho Las Vegas last weekend. So now I can't decide! ------------- Z |
Posted By: maryes
Date Posted: August 24 2017 at 17:36
| Although I'm not VDGG great fan, Magma sound (nor Zeuhl style ) never attracted me !!! |
Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: August 24 2017 at 17:53
This...this is the difference between everyone else and Magma. When I first bought MDK 30 years ago I was less than impressed. After seeing them live they clicked more so than any other of the several hundred live acts I have seen. Afterwards their albums took on a whole new life. ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow">  https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: August 24 2017 at 20:26
|
Glad to see this has gotten a little closer now. For me Magma is the clear choice, but hard to beat VdGG on here it seems. Maybe I should give them another try.. yeah I prolly should. |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: August 25 2017 at 03:49
I don't really get why this has any relevance at all - but people are different. I guess you can say that VdGG or rather Peter Hammill is an existentialist - in the early 70's in a naive-or youthful way (but I love it nevertheless) but from ca 1974-75 his imagery and metaphors gets quite sophisticated. Compare the wide eyed "teen angst directness" of Killer or Lost to the gloomy, compex wordsmithery of Sleepwalkers or how he deals with similar "alone in the universe/why are we here"-questions in the ever-expanding Red Shift - just four years later. - I'm afraid I seem to have strayed somewhat from my original brief. But in a nutshell: its not about how it ends. Its asking unanswerable questions and creating sceneries - grand or intimate for us to experience. I love how Hammill manages to combine intellectually ambitious lyrics while still wearing his heart on his sleeve. Anyway if you fear darkness, unhappy thoughts or endings - never google "Kobaïan dictionary". You may risk never wanting to meditate to Magma again. Ẁurdah Ïtah! ------------- 
|
Posted By: CosmicVibration
Date Posted: August 25 2017 at 10:40
|
Magma for the most part does not
seem to be dark at all but rather very optimistic and of the light. Even though there is mentions of human
frailties and the evilness of people this is just an observation as to what’s
going on.
Jon Anderson of Yes, although being very positive and spiritual in his lyrics also speaks of such things. Relayer is a prime example, but even on Close to the Edge, which is mostly light there are contrasts of darkness. I just picked up the latest DVD from Magma, Emehntentt-Re Trilogie, it’s simply mind blowing. http://www.seventhrecords.com/en/video-dvd-38/emehntehtt-re-trilogy-1260.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.seventhrecords.com/en/video-dvd-38/emehntehtt-re-trilogy-1260.html The premise seems to be an expanded version of Yes’s Close to the Edge. There’s an interview with Christian Vander that’s over an hour long discussing not only the uniqueness and complexities of the music but the evolving concept of the band Magma. KA: K.A is a story of someone that’s a bit confused looking and fumbling for his way in life. He is on a religious spiritual quest, searching and trying different paths not certain which one to take.
Kohntorkosz: As Kohntorkosz he finds a path that resonates with him and is set on his journey to becoming a master.
Ëmëhntëhtt-Ré: Ëmëhntëhtt-Ré was a grand master that was looking for immortality. Konhntorkosz goes on a pilgrimage to visit the burial place of Ëmëhntëhtt-Ré. As Konhntorkosz enters the burial chamber and opens the dusty tomb he falls into a trance. He is overloaded with information that will take him a lifetime to process. . Vander goes into much more detail but this is what I can remember from one quick viewing. The interview is also in French which I don’t speak so I had to stay focused on the subtitles. The main concept is that there are many levels of consciousness or awareness before full enlightenment. This is everyone’s journey whether they realize it or not. Evolution is inevitable… |
Posted By: Cosmiclawnmower
Date Posted: August 25 2017 at 14:47
|
I think this a very valid poll; both band's fans are extremely passionate about their favourite, in many cases fans of one love the other too (but not necessarily so..). It doesn't matter which ever way you vote, just expressing your passion and love for particular band helps keep its legacy alive. I love both and really cant choose even after to thinking it in quite a bit of depth.. good call though!! ------------- |
Posted By: CosmicVibration
Date Posted: August 25 2017 at 15:30
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eGgXa360-E&t=17s" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eGgXa360-E&t=17s excerpt from Köhntarkösz off of Ëmëhntëhtt-Ré Trilogie DVD |
Posted By: mlkpad14
Date Posted: August 25 2017 at 16:32
|
How do you compare two really awesome bands like these? It's like comparing Black Sabbath and Metallica... People do it, but I can't choose... The Rolling Stones and Led Zeppelin... ------------- https://gamecrazyprofessional.weebly.com/ |
Posted By: dr prog
Date Posted: August 25 2017 at 16:46
Magma and Graaf are pretty even. But I give Magma the vote because Graaf missed 3 of the best years of prog eg. 1972-74. As for the other bands, Sabbath and Zeppelin easily
------------- All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock. |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: August 25 2017 at 16:57
And you admit it?
 The second part I mean. Hey, I did too and look what good it did me(and us). |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: August 25 2017 at 18:00
|
MAGMA   VAN DER GRAAF GENERATOR  ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: August 25 2017 at 18:15
|
Thanks for all the responses so far everyone, and particularly all the
information.. I just did some research on my own and I will NEVER listen
to Magma again.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magma_%28band%29%20" rel="nofollow - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magma_(band) The "Controversy" section |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: August 25 2017 at 18:41
|
^ that's a little harsh. Rumors are dished out for various reasons including jealousy and petty differences. There is no real proof of those accusations but even if they ARE true doesn't diminish musical talent. There are many lyrics i don't agree with but humans are subject to change and no individual need be stuck in any state of mind. If those rumors were real, are they still true? Who knows ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: CosmicVibration
Date Posted: August 25 2017 at 19:31
I think it’s a bunch of crap… of course I could be wrong but let’s see. Vander thinks the African people are a bunch of degenerates? Where is the link to this interview so it can be verified? What about his admiration and affection towards John Coltrane? He even dedicated an exquisite record to John Coltrane – http://www.seventhrecords.com/en/christian-vander-21/john-coltrane-l-homme-supreme-1101.html" rel="nofollow - JOHN COLTRANE L'HOMME SUPREME
Vander "had swastika flags all over his bedroom and pictures of Hitler and would leap up and do kind of imitation Hitler speeches in the middle of his drum solo" Any pictures of his room?
Any videos of his supposed speeches during the drum solo? I guess his marriage to a Jewish lady is a just
cover-up. The swastika has been severely perverted. The swastika symbol is thousands of years old and was used by different cultures all over the world. In Buddhism it is still a sacred symbol. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 26 2017 at 08:41
|
*face palm* god bless the internet... Children are abused in the basements pizza places in downtown D.C under Clinton's watchful eyes.. and of those of her flying death squad. Obama was Kenyan and a Muslim...Trump empathetic and qualified..... Vander a f**king goosestepping Nazi. No wonder the world is going to hell... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Larkstongue41
Date Posted: August 26 2017 at 09:51
A Wikipedia article  ------------- "Larks' tongues. Wrens' livers. Chaffinch brains. Jaguars' earlobes. Wolf nipple chips. Get 'em while they're hot. They're lovely. Dromedary pretzels, only half a denar." |
Posted By: CosmicVibration
Date Posted: August 26 2017 at 10:26
YESESIS,
maybe 5 minutes of Hallelujah will ease your mind… enjoy |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 26 2017 at 10:57
|
pffff... Vander could be a Trump supporter and Ohio Nazi if it made him happy.... for this... all would be forgiven. and back on topic... that is one of many reasons why Magma nails VDGG straight in the ass. VDGG never came close to touching the best of Magma.. and of course there have been so many great Magma moments. ZERO f**king comparison between the two. Magma smokes VDGG as hard as it would KC and the Sunshine Band... at least they could dance and had a good ear for melody.. something completely lost on VDGG hahaha
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Magnum Vaeltaja
Date Posted: August 26 2017 at 11:07
Not just a wikipedia article, but one whose sources include such rigorous texts as an anonymous blog poster and a Magma fan site! ------------- when i was a kid a doller was worth ten dollers - now a doller couldnt even buy you fifty cents |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 26 2017 at 11:20
|
see man.. you simply can't trust Wiki... it didn't even mention the affair his wife had with a certain smoking hot DC area stud who was in his own right a internet forum star, occasional prog fan, who LOVES Magma and thinks VDGG is everything that 'prog hater' is right about. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: August 26 2017 at 11:20
|
I'm glad to see this crap not taken seriously. Even if Christian Vander did-or does collect swastikaflags or imitates Hitler (or even if he has said something repulsive forty years ago) - it doesn't make me think any lesser of him. Because he is so obviously not a racist anyway. Magma's music is a fusion of european modernism and afro american jazz - a gesamtkunstwerk like Nibelungenringen (which is perhaps an unfortunate example as Wagner was anti-semitic) and a whole universe containing diabolic and angelic voices, forces of good and evil, death, destruction, chaos and re-creation. Christian Vander doing his Hitler parody speech backed by his ethnically mixed avant-jazz-rock ensemble. He certainly put it to good use. -------------
|
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 26 2017 at 11:39
|
Regarding the controversy: Christian Vander loved jazz, black musicians, and adored John Coltrane. He has composed at least one homage to his music. His jazz band have covered lots of Coltrane. he could still be racist while liking and paying homage to black music, but he has spoken of how much Coltrane and other black jazz artists were an inspiration to his music and his life. I can believe that Vander collected Nazi memorabilia and had a fascination with it. The debut album has a swastika on it and the sort of German eagle on it with the talents reaching down on screaming people, but it hardly seems an homage to NAZIism, as it's a scene of terror that implies evil dictatorship. It seems clear to me that he drew on Nazi tropes and the the Teutonic mythology and music (Wagner) that they drew on, and Nazi preoccupations to create the Kobaia mythology. Kobaian, the artificial language of Magma sounds very Teutonic, draws on Wagnerian opera, as well as Karl Orff, and Naziism to tell the story of Kobaia. In "Stoah" off Kobaia it sounds like Vander is parodying Hitler; it's not flattering with vanders screechy stentorian voice. it's positively ugly. Yes, he imitated Hitler speeches, but part of the Kobaian mythology is that there was a time in their civilization of hate, and that is the sort of hateful dictator of the story he told. When you're writing in a made-up language you have to make reference points that people get to tell a story. Making himself sound like Hitler makes it easier for the audience to get. There also is a time of love in Kobaia mythology. So, once again the Nazi stuff is part of telling a story, and method actors who play Nazis might also keep Nazi memorabilia to inspire the character. Drawing inspiration from something and being fascinated by something is not the same as admiring it (especially when doing it for artistic reasons). I have a very good Iranian friend who is a professor of history and has written many books who is fascinated with Nazi Germany, but I know that doesn't make him a Nazi. Similarly, one could say that just because Vander loves black music does not mean he admires blacks, except he does admire black musicians and I've never heard anyone claim that he admired Hitler. As for the "degenerates" comment, I'd have to hear the context in the interview to comment on it. There are people that I would describe as degenerates from all around the world. He might have been referring to specific corrupt individuals or groups in Africa and India despite it saying in the Wikipedia article that he was referring to the people of those countries as degenerates, and it may also have been hyperbole in a specific context. He may have misspoken and meant something else, who knows, or it may have been a phase of his when I was angry at things going on in those parts of the world,or the effect that certain peoples from those countries were having on France. I find people being taken out of context or misunderstanding the point all the time by certain journalists. To me, though, what matters if if I like the music, and even if he held some controversial views at one time, that doesn't mean that he feels the same at this time. I wonder if some Nazis would accuse Magma of cultural appropriation? Incidentally, Christian Vander's wife was born of Polish immigrants, and the Germans were not kind to the Polish. Vander's step-dead was a jazz musician and grew up listening to jazz and idolized black musicians such as John Coltrane and Miles Davis, and has said that they inspire him every day of his life. He heaps praise and thanks on them, and considers listening to such music to be a very spiritual experience. SO, no, I don't think of him as a racist even if he has had some fascination with Nazi culture. Such fascination, as I said, does not mean that you are not appalled by it (in fact the fascination many have with it is because aspects of it are so appalling and you wonder how this could have happened). It does make for good story-telling material. Sorry, but to decide never to listen to Magma again because of that section in Wikipedia (a site that anyone can write in and universities commonly discourage for research) seems like a knee-jerk reaction. Keep an open mind, and open ears, just not so open that your brains, and ear drums, fall out. By the way, I wrote this long post quickly and have trouble reading these small text boxes that you compose in, so expect many typos/ grammatical errors. ------------- Just a fanboy passin' through. |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: August 26 2017 at 11:57
|
^I appreciate that you took the time to do a more comprehensive post than I did, Logan. Sometimes it looks like people want and actually enjoys finding something to be offended about. There's something offensive about the easily offended. -------------
|
Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: August 26 2017 at 12:42
|
Well if my goal by posting that was to really reignite this thread then.. mission accomplished I'd say. Ok, for those of you slamming Wikipedia.. this is 2017 everyone immediately goes there for all of their researching needs. We want instant gratification and that's how it should be. Seriously though, I had been using Magma a lot for my daily meditation and if that music was written out of evil then it just doesn't work for me(is what it is). Anyway a definite thanks for all the helpful information that people are posting, especially CosmicVibration and Logan. It really is helpful. Cheers |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 26 2017 at 12:47
|
Thank you, Saperlipopette, appreciate your post too (actually took me long enough to compose that I had not seen your response which makes the same main points I was trying to make more concisely. Of course I know the song, and referenced it, but I hadn't seen that particular clip). I hope it'd clear to people that the way Vander "does" Hitler is parody rather than some loving recreation. For those that don't know, the bad times in Kobaian mythology is Theusz Hamtaahk, the Time of Hate. I've thought that the Kobaian mythology might be an extension of what might have happened in a parallel universe if Naziism had prevailed. Despite the darkness of Nazi like totalitarianism, eventually the human, or Koabian I might say, spirit prevailed over the darkness and the dictatorship crumbled and so we get to the time of love. It's a fantasy based on humanity that draws on history. It's quite an Orwellian story only with a more positive message, we can triumph over evil, unlike in 1984 where you imagine about stomping on a face for ever. Magma is ultimately uplifting, and spiritual, which I think Yesesis would appreciate. The story starts off dystopian and turns Utopian. A bit like a 1984 type totalitarian world, only referencing Naziism in particular rather than the communism that Orwell referenced, becomes more like the Chronicles of Narnia. Two addendums to my post: there are two swastikas on the cover of the debut album and the eagle talon is a traditional symbol of Germany's coat of arms. ------------- Just a fanboy passin' through. |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: August 26 2017 at 13:31
|
When I was in my late teens and early twenties I occassionally parodied Nazi speeches and went way over the top with these parodies. I was really shocked when I learned that some people thought I was serious, that I was a Nazi and hated Jews and wanted them all killed. How could anyone who knew me think this was indeed my belief, that for example sentences like "Exterminate them with root and branch, burn them and blow their ashes in the wind, eradicate them from the face of the earth and from the face of the moon" or "It is the Jews' fault that you have to labor, it is the Jews' fault that you have to suffer, it is the Jews' fault that your seven year old son wets his bed at night" were meant to be serious? They were so obviously a parody! But apparently some people did believe I was serious. It seems I am too good an actress. -------------  BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 26 2017 at 16:41
|
^ hahah... I don't suppose you have any VHS tape recordings of those laying around do you Friede. Must see youtube viewing there.... makes my 'parodying' of a hot woman with a killer ass though a bit flat in the chest but on the prowl for lonely men.. which was recorded .. though hopefully no longer surviving ....seem tame in comparison. I was wild. really wild.. but I wouldn't have touched Nazi speach parodies... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 26 2017 at 17:14
|
That's a great personal anecdote, Friede. Often when people get offended they think less rationally. Sometimes it's the knee-jerk reaction without thinking things through. If someone were to cherry-pick from the many posts I've made at this forum, the objectionable/ questionable/ controversial stuff could make me look like a monster. Just my jokes alone could, although more people would be calling to have me shot for my poor sense of humour. When quoting it is common for people to take phrases out of context, and sometimes it is that one is having a bad day and you just don't express yourself well. I have a replica of George Washington's pistol in my house, but that doesn't mean that I support slavery or even that I support the War of Independence. It's a faux historical artifact of interest to me, and I'd rather have the real one. Now, I don't think that I'd want Nazi memorabilia, but were I given some I wouldn't refuse it and I would take good care of it as a part of history. Would I drive around in Hitler's car saluting people, perhaps not, though being a joker, I would have to resist the urge. Just yesterday I was talking to my wife about why eating babies, not the jelly type, might be a good idea. Someone who didn't know me might find that offensive. It was a little thought experiment type thing the likes of which I used to enjoy when in school. But imagine, if I said that in an interview, the furor, as opposed to Führer, that might cause, especially if anyone admired me or I was a celebrity. There was a context to what I was saying that my wife got and, being of sound mind, totally ignored. --------------------------------------------- As for wikipedia, it can be a useful source of information. I use it quite regularly for my own edification, but I don't rely on it for information. It cites the sources there, and I don't dismiss what it says, but like with information generally, one can draw the wrong or different conclusions from it, so when I read an article there I tend not to be reactive. I read it and cogitate, but I try to avoid rash conclusions. If it's something I care about, I will probably do more research. It doesn't tell the whole story, and sometimes we will never know the whole story (a lot is anecdotal evidence and then those people might not understand the motivations etc. -- unfortunately, people are unreliable sources and misremember things, neglect conflicting evidence, and lose context etc.). I have my interpretation, you have yours, they have theirs. One judges on who provides better evidence and more details, and a better argument, and by what you can infer. In academia they tend to prefer primary sources as much as possible. I've known about this "controversy" with Christian Vander for years, but have come to a different conclusion than you have Yesesis, and so I would not ever have even considered boycotting his music. Even if I am wrong, I might not, to be honest, as I have albums by some people who have verifiably done despicable things. I can love the music without loving the person, and well, there is an ethical argument not to support despicable people, of course, but I don't believe that Christian Vander is despicable based on my research and thinking. In regards to the Nazi stuff, I think it's very easy to explain away in a good way, and I never like to assume the worst about people. As a hard determinist, I actually probably have more difficulty assigning moral culpability to anyone anyway than most people here. ------------- Just a fanboy passin' through. |
Posted By: CosmicVibration
Date Posted: August 26 2017 at 17:57
|
This thread has been most informative,
thanks everyone…
Saperlipopette, even though that clip from French TV is a bit freaky, I would’ve never guessed Vander was doing a Hitler parody speech. Logan, thanks for a deeper insight into one of the most fascinating bands ever. This was always my impression of what the band is all about: http://artist-shop.com/seventh/index.htm" rel="nofollow -
"Magma is a concept band whose albums explain the origins and
development of the new civilization on Kobaia, and their interactions with the
people of Earth and other planets. All of their lyrics are sung in the language
of the new civilization, 'Kobaian.' As one might expect, the music from Kobaia
several hundred years from now is very unlike what we are accustomed to on
twentieth century planet earth. Magma's music is very strange, beautiful, and
ultimately rewarding, but it does require an open mind on the part of the
listener. It is music that must be experienced fully with body, heart and soul:
not simply a cerebral performance of some kind of space opera by clever
musicians, but a full blown spiritual experience with the music acting as the
connecting vehicle between performer and listener. After hearing from the lips
of Vander himself it seems that KA, Kohntarkosz and Emehntehtt-Re is a trilogy
about one person’s spiritual journey towards enlightenment. Actually, Vander’s lips were
moving but he might as well been speaking Kobaian, it’s all Greek to me. http://www.seventhrecords.com/en/video-dvd-38/emehntehtt-re-trilogy-1260.html" rel="nofollow - Reference
VD10 PERFORMED IN FULL FOR THE VERY FIRST
TIME! Concerts recorded live at Le Triton
in November 2014 Initiated in 1973, its composition
beholds its whole fulfillment after more than four decades. It is the testimony
of an unwaveringly timeless inspiration, of which the expectant present asserts
itself beyond history. Connecting wide and contrasted scenes, it sets its
coherence within its very dynamics, playing with chiaroscuro , between choral
splendor, operatic jubilation and hurricane of spirits beyond graves. The different parts formerly
scattered around are finally gathered in all their glory, finding their proper
place in the grand scale of a now complete work, topped off with the bright
blaze of a Grand Finale. K.A - KÖHNTARKÖSZ - ËMËHNTËHTT-RÉ The two-disc DVD set features THE CROSSROADS OF TIMES, 115 minutes of
conversations with Christian Vander on composing each movement of the trilogy.
Through a process of digging, expanding, anchoring and changing directions, his
unique approach continues to propel Magma’s music forward. |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: August 26 2017 at 18:24
-------------
|
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 26 2017 at 18:38
|
Not literally a speech parody, more of a parroty, and not a Hitler speech in Kobaian I don't think, but he is invoking the spirit of Hitler's vocal theatrics, and it fits in with the Nazi and Germans symbolism on the Kobaia album cover (of course the came up with Stoah before recording Kobaia). Thanks, CosmicVibration, that is an insightful article by Peter Thelen and helps my general impressions, and limited reading on such stuff, to be more substantive. I found this, the full article I assume by Thelen, http://www.furious.com/perfect/magma.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.furious.com/perfect/magma.html , just now which goes into more depth. ------------- Just a fanboy passin' through. |
Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: August 26 2017 at 19:51
I didn't realize that, and it won't work for me. Now before everyone jumps on me lol(they probably will anyway this is the internet - nature of the beast), that's just for me... you all do what you want. I'm an American and believe in freedom, you know as long as you're not hurting other and so forth. Just for me, even if I was ok with that symbol(which I'm not).. what if someone came over and that CD was out and they saw the cover? They may not say a word to me but in their head they might be thinking, "wow, guess you never really know people." So, it won't work. And I'm sorry CosmicVibration, I know you love them and you were the one who really turned me on to them.. but I just can't anymore. Now on the flip side.. there's this Great Man http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Gabriel" rel="nofollow - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Gabriel The "Activist for humanitarian causes" section Classic Genesis. There's a band that I will always love and cherish deeply. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 26 2017 at 20:28
No worries, this book sits in my bookcase. Luckily I've never had to explain that it's an anti-fascist work of fiction, which is how I see Magma's debut as well. EDIT: Forget to mention, and being a huge Philip K. Dick fan (not the man, just for the books as he had some problems), I also have this:  ------------- Just a fanboy passin' through. |
Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: August 26 2017 at 20:42
Author of ROSEMARY'S BABY. Ok well, like I said to each their own. You certainly don't strike me as a bad guy in any way so you know, it's all good. And thanks again for all your info about Magma in this thread. Ultimately he's probably not a bad person and the band is probably fine, but.. just not for me. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 26 2017 at 20:57
|
It's very different from Rosemary's Baby. The Boys from Brazil is a great novel, I think. But of course that wasn't my point. To each his or her own, judge not lest ye be judged etc. I do appreciate your presence here, glad you take the time to converse, and I'm thankful to you for the book recommendation. In the words of my Prime Minister, sunny ways, my friend, sunny ways. And I'm hardly the best of people that's for sure, but I try, mostly for my family. I've been posting at another forum and you might be shocked at how brutal, rude and argumentative the debates can be. I think Micky would like it (haha, just kidding, or am I?). I like the more positive and friendly atmosphere here -- little drama, and people coming together as friends. A good place to let one's hair down, at least the people here who have hair. ------------- Just a fanboy passin' through. |
Posted By: CosmicVibration
Date Posted: August 26 2017 at 21:09
Hey it’s cool, if it doesn’t resonate with you because of a personal hang up then find something else that will move you in a positive direction. Did you read this? If not maybe you should before you move on. Also, at the end of the article there are 2 more links with interviews with Vander. http://www.furious.com/perfect/magma.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.furious.com/perfect/magma.html ----------------------------------------- When my wife was in college she came home upset one day stating that she’s not going to see one of her dear friends anymore. When I inquired as to why she said her friend had swastikas in her apartment. Actually she wasn’t my wife at the time but my girlfriend and she’s Jewish. I asked if her friend was Buddhist, to which she then replied, “no she’s Indian”. My wife almost lost a good friend because of a simple misunderstanding. The swastika had a religious connotation for her friend and had nothing to do with Hitler. The swastika is a sacred icon that’s over 5,000 years old. You shouldn’t shutter when you see it but rather inquire as to the meaning it holds for that person and how they truly feel about it. Her friend isn’t religious at all so it didn’t hold much meaning for her; it was just a gift from her parents. |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: August 26 2017 at 21:39
|
The whole notion of Magma Vs Van Der Graaf has surpringly turned into a court case against Vander's character. Hmmmm ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 26 2017 at 21:39
captcha'd... long post gone. In short.. yeah... if one judged me on the contents of my bookshelves one would have me pegged as a bed sheet wearing goose stepping Trump voting Moron. It is history however... one doesn't have to admire or have any partcular affinity for the subject to have a a strong passionate interest in it. I got many questions from friends about the subject of my book, a real character who was militantly pro slavery and part of the infamous Sumner affair in Congress. It wasn't that I agreed with him that made me so passionately interested in telling his story.. it was he was so alien to me even if he was one of the most capable and effective battlefield commanders this country ever produced. and yeah.. this forum has been completely emasculated in terms of conflict and drama from the good old days and that is both a good thing and bad thing. Besides this is a music site.. what was there really to get upset about? People committed aural suicide by pumping all kinds of VDGG, Neo and SWilson sh*t into their ears and brains? nah. I do enjoy a good scrap and yeah, there are some really rough ones out there. Come ready and informed or leave extremely butt sore. None in my experience are as bad as history forums. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: August 27 2017 at 13:34
Thanks for posting this friend. I read most of what was in that link(and other links inside it), and it really tempted me to get back into them. I just wish that in one of those interview the issue had been brought up. Maybe his people said before hand that the subject was off limits(idk). I really wanted that issue to be discussed and him convincingly deny it. Oh well, certainly a lot to think about and thank you again for your help. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 27 2017 at 13:39
I love VdGG, especially for the Least We Can Do is Wave to Each Other, but to each his or her own. It's definitely not as scrappy here as it used to be, which can make it a lot less invigorating. I like the idea of having your notions challenged, but in balance, I generally prefer when it's done in a reasonably respectful to the person manner. That said, I wouldn't expect people to respect my opinions, as I've never bought into this sort of postmodernist idea that all opinions are equal... An informed opinion is better than an ill-informed one, and scientific objectivity has merit. History forums would be a nightmare for me, but also a learning experience. It's great to learn from your betters, and I try not to take it too hard when people rip what I thought were logical conclusions to shreds. At the forum I've been visiting you'd be better be armed with well-researched knowledge and know your logical fallacies, and manage to streamline your thoughts (often the more you say the more there is to find fault with). That said, it's fun. Here you probably wouldn't have someone welcoming you in your introduction thread with telling you that at the forum the regulars kick the crap out of each other, and then beat the crap out of the newbies until the leave or become regulars, and then go back to kicking the crap out of each other again. Or go all Conan the Barbarian on your derriere, and absolutely delight in it, elsewhere. And don't use self-deprecation, they will run with it to really deprecate you. It's a bit too humorless a place for me though, and I'd rather dialectic than a debate, unless you consider trying to break people and shatter all confidence funny. It's not a hard place to be with the right attitude, though, and I need a site to prime my powers of logic, and I do want to improve my debating skills, thicken my skin, and improve my noodle which has become even soggier than my diapers. And I do like that no subjects are sacrosanct, and you will stand or fall on the merits of your reasoning and accuracy. That said, I'm probably giving them way too much credit. :) And if it ever gets to be too much, I can always post here for a more cuddly environment, not that I will post much there. I prefer talking about politics, ethics, science etc. in person, but writing about it is useful to hone your skills at argumentation. Really I'm a wimp. I'm even nervous to enter the American Politics thread at this site. I do wish we had a lot more discussion about non-music stuff here. ------------- Just a fanboy passin' through. |
Posted By: CosmicVibration
Date Posted: August 27 2017 at 15:47
|
[/QUOTE] Thanks for posting this friend. I read most of what was in that link(and other links inside it), and it really tempted me to get back into them. I just wish that in one of those interview the issue had been brought up. Maybe his people said before hand that the subject was off limits(idk). I really wanted that issue to be discussed and him convincingly deny it. Oh well, certainly a lot to think about and thank you again for your help. [/QUOTE] That link was compliments of Mr. Logan who originally posted it. I thank him as it expanded on what I already knew about the band and I had fun reading it. At least for me, it solidified the feeling I got from just listening to the music and not really knowing what they were singing about. Not sure how I would feel if Vander really was deceptively dark and evil. I would probably just be confused on why his exquisite music conveys such beauty for me. I would still continue to listen to it, perhaps not as much though. Anyway it’s not about me, you have to do what feels right and is healthy for you. You mentioned you meditate to music. I don’t know what your goal or goals are and there are thousands of meditation techniques. If it’s for spiritual development it’s wiser and faster to focus your concentration on turning your senses inward versus outward. However, with a razor sharp focus on anything, including music, one can put himself in a meditative state. Elite athletes call this the “zone” and when questioned about it they all convey the same message. It’s as if time stood still or slowed down and there was no thought process involved. Rather than a thinker and a doer it just happens in a thoughtless state as a casual observer. Here’s an excellent piece from Hoyry Kone that you may enjoy to fully tune into. |
Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: August 27 2017 at 17:46
You clearly know something about meditation, that's cool. I just use it to relax, and 'program myself.' They say that autosuggestions work best when the mind is in alpha state. So that's it really, I gave up trying to achieve "enlightenment" a while back. And thanks for the video, yeah it sounds more like what you'd normally think of to use for something like meditation. It's just I guess I'm trying to combine listening to these new prog artists with getting in my meditation lol. Like when else am I going to listen to Marillion, or Eloy, or whoever. Do you meditate at all? Your username might suggest that you do.
|
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: August 27 2017 at 20:36
| For relaxing, for me there's nothing better than Shine on You Crazy Diamond. And there's a good bit of Pink Floyd that works very nicely for it... though mostly the lyrics are rather negative. The last "The Endless River" would be particularly relaxing (with just about no lyrics and all). Also, as I recommended before, Mike Oldfield should work very nicely. And last, Harmonium's song "Histoires sans Paroles" is just beauty made music. |
Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: August 27 2017 at 20:44
Yeah, that's why I like instrumentals lol. Cool man, as always thanks for the suggestions. I'll have to check those out.
|
Posted By: CosmicVibration
Date Posted: August 28 2017 at 10:19
I’ve been meditating for about 30 years now. I started strictly for health, stamina and martial art power. After the first 10 years my objective changed to get closer to reality, to lift the veil of delusion, aka achieve enlightenment. I did have a few breakthroughs and maybe in a couple hundred years I’ll attain my objective. They say that the hardest thing to do in the world is to still the mind. I would concur… “Be still and know that I am God” |
Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: August 28 2017 at 20:20
Wow, you're more spiritual than I am. Yeah I used to try to completely 'still my mind' but eventually gave up lol. So now I just do deep diaphragmatic breathing, and like go through and 'let go' of all the muscles in my body.. until I'm VERY relaxed, and then I start giving myself affirmations like "I am a relaxed person, that is my normal state." Stuff like that. But yeah man, sounds like you've gotten a lot further than I did.. so thanks for sharing. |
Posted By: CosmicVibration
Date Posted: August 29 2017 at 19:59
I think the one main sign a person can use to gauge their spiritual progress is the degree and depth of their internal joy that they feel. Also, that the ecstatic blissful state remains unshaken under any and all circumstances. I for one, have a long way to go, the universe seems to be testing me all the time. It doesn’t seem that you gave up trying… If you’re focusing on your breathing and affirmation while trying to exclude any other thoughts from entering the mind you’re practicing to still it. Stilling or clearing the mind doesn’t mean that you put yourself in a thoughtless stupor. It’s a complete mental focus on the present moment in which random thoughts do not enter the mind. |
Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: August 29 2017 at 23:56
Well at this point I don't actually worry about whether random thoughts enter my mind or not, in fact I welcome them lol. I get into an extremely relaxed state and then do my affirmations, leading to a feeling that what I'm affirming is already reality. Also I'm listening to prog while doing this so.. I miss Magma lol. The last couple days I've been meditating to Barclay James Harvest, which is good but not quite the same. Wish I could get some answers about this controversy but I'll keep trying. Maybe I should just listen to them and not tell anyone lol. Anyway, thanks again for sharing your wisdom here. You definitely know your stuff! |
Posted By: CosmicVibration
Date Posted: August 30 2017 at 17:10
[/QUOTE]
Well at this point I don't actually worry about whether random thoughts enter my mind or not, in fact I welcome them lol. I get into an extremely relaxed state and then do my affirmations, leading to a feeling that what I'm affirming is already reality. Also I'm listening to prog while doing this so.. I miss Magma lol. The last couple days I've been meditating to Barclay James Harvest, which is good but not quite the same. Wish I could get some answers about this controversy but I'll keep trying. Maybe I should just listen to them and not tell anyone lol. Anyway, thanks again for sharing your wisdom here. You definitely know your stuff! Here’s a good one to get lost in, just put in on loop and zone out. Om or Aum is the sacred resonant frequency of the universe. While listening to it you can also try visualizing a spinning swastika in front of you or inside your forehead. Sorry man, just messing with you…sort of. I know you’re hung up on Magma because of the controversy surrounding Christian Vander. Furthermore, the swastika is probably one of the most despicable and repugnant symbols for you. The truth of the matter is, the swastika is a sacred emblem that’s revered all over the world. Ultimately, like the sound of Om it represents consciousness and energy interacting to give expression to the universe. After all that, if the symbol, the sound or the music ruffles
your state of relaxation, keep em away. |
Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: August 30 2017 at 21:23
Well at this point I don't actually worry about whether random thoughts enter my mind or not, in fact I welcome them lol. I get into an extremely relaxed state and then do my affirmations, leading to a feeling that what I'm affirming is already reality. Also I'm listening to prog while doing this so.. I miss Magma lol. The last couple days I've been meditating to Barclay James Harvest, which is good but not quite the same. Wish I could get some answers about this controversy but I'll keep trying. Maybe I should just listen to them and not tell anyone lol. Anyway, thanks again for sharing your wisdom here. You definitely know your stuff! Here’s a good one to get lost in, just put in on loop and zone out. Om or Aum is the sacred resonant frequency of the universe. While listening to it you can also try visualizing a spinning swastika in front of you or inside your forehead. Sorry man, just messing with you…sort of. I know you’re hung up on Magma because of the controversy surrounding Christian Vander. Furthermore, the swastika is probably one of the most despicable and repugnant symbols for you. The truth of the matter is, the swastika is a sacred emblem that’s revered all over the world. Ultimately, like the sound of Om it represents consciousness and energy interacting to give expression to the universe. After all that, if the symbol, the sound or the music ruffles
your state of relaxation, keep em away.
[/QUOTE]
You're a funny guy(but that symbol isn't). Anyway thank you for posting that, maybe some day I'll listen to it. I did find this.. http://www.richieunterberger.com/allen.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.richieunterberger.com/allen.html The fourth paragraph under What were the primary assets Giorgio
gave to the acts he was involved with?
|
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 30 2017 at 21:28
heh... that is pretty cool man. Yeah I've been doing it close to 20 myself. I fully concur the hardest thing to do in the world is still the mind. Booze works pretty well as well but at the time I had started I had just gone through AA and I thought it would be pretty poor form to fall off the wagon so quickly so I took up meditation which fully fit my religious/spiritual inclinations anyhow. Of coursre my worse half, the reason I need either mass consumptions of booze/mediation really had a ball with that. Supportive she was not. The only person I've ever met that perhaps has less empathy and heart than our f**king President hahaha. Good example, even tried going vegetarian once... oh she wasn't having any of that and said f**k you and that hippy bullsh*t.. and fed me nothing but canned veggies (no I can not cook, I burn pasta water) until I broke. Hah... it took 2 months. I didn't go down without a fight ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: CosmicVibration
Date Posted: August 31 2017 at 21:28
|
[/QUOTE]
You're a funny guy(but that symbol isn't). Anyway thank you for posting that, maybe some day I'll listen to it. I did find this.. http://www.richieunterberger.com/allen.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.richieunterberger.com/allen.html The fourth paragraph under What were the primary assets Giorgio
gave to the acts he was involved with? [/QUOTE]Yea, that’s a bit unnerving. In that scenario I wonder why no one bothered to ask any questions the find out where that person’s head is really at. Is it for some sort of inspiration? Is it some kind of commemoration? Is it to throw darts at? I’d probably start with, yo dude, what the f**k is up with that? Then listen to the response and take it to the next question. Don’t judge a book by its cover What’s not funny but sad is the way man perverts everything. Man has corrupted symbols, figures, teachings of great masters, religions, etc. The concept of god has become so perverted that if you concede to the distortions then as a rational person it would be sensible to stay away. You have to go beyond man’s perversions and try to perceive things for what they actually represent. |