CD's are expensive, no doubt, but there are things that could make them more valuable. I'd love to see them with better booklets that contain more information and include a bonus "the Making of *****" DVD to give some behind the scenes info. 

Demos are cool, but I tend to skip over them after a couple of listens.

Hidden tracks that are tacked on to the last song after twenty muinutes of silence are a pain in the arse, especially in the car.... holding down the fast forward button while swerving through rush hour traffic and trying to hold the cell phone to my ear with my left shoulder.....  Bad Idea!!!!!

I voted for DVD footage. Although it doesn't have to be the making of... We see this all the time with movies. Somehow knowing how a movie is made takes away the magic.   Same applies to music. If you know all the in and outs of a band the magic is gone.

But including a DVD or a DVD track also means bigger expenses for the band or the label. And I guess bands with a low budget could suffer from this.

But what makes lots of prog CDs attractive for me is the special editions with a beautiful book like cover.

Joren wrote: Some things are nice, but the only way to make CD's REALLY BETTER, is to make them cheaper! No, I'm not kidding. I don't want to pay 20 euros for a CD... that's just rediculous...

I'm with you on that! New CD's are waaay too expencive. Thank God for secondhand shops. They're pretty much as good as new, and about 50% cheaper! (If not more)

Belljar wrote: Joren wrote: Some things are nice, but the only way to make CD's REALLY BETTER, is to make them cheaper! No, I'm not kidding. I don't want to pay 20 euros for a CD... that's just rediculous... I'm with you on that! New CD's are waaay too expencive. Thank God for secondhand shops. They're pretty much as good as new, and about 50% cheaper! (If not more)

Absolutely - it's one of the biggest problems I have with CDs - they cost far less to produce than vinyl albums ever did - and have done for a long time. Why should I pay £15 for something that cost 10p to manufacture? I understand that the bands deserve payment, and the record companies can't produce CDs for nothing, so there has to be a profit margin, but I feel little sympathy for an industry that has pushed the profit margins through the roof and then run out of cash because everyone got a massive pay rise out of it;

Artists now are extortionately overpaid in the premier division (and I mean of pay, not of talent, ROBBIE WILLIAMS!!!), and now the companies are trying to milk even more out of the music by "hitting pirates" - that's the likes of you and me that make illegal copies so that we can decide whether we want to buy the music or not, as we have done for generations.

/end rant, as I could go on about this topic for ages!

CDs can't be improved, except cosmetically. For real improvements, ie to the music, DVD or even better, solid-state audio is the way forward, IMO.

1: lower prices

2: including a nurse for my children

3: the secret of the best beauty regime

Maybe inckuding a protection system that could make impossible to burn, copy or release Rap, Hip Hop and Pop music on the CD's.

Iván

Altough it's very expensive, the poor sound of cd's is the first problem!!!

When you have a real hifi-system with a good CD and a good vynil, and when you compare an original vynil to the latest cd edtion, the cd is unbearable...

Moreover, a real good Cd player is very very expensive (at least 15000 dollars,

no joking)...

There's a separate discussion for the relative merits of the formats

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=864&PN=1 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=864&am p;PN=1

I for one would be seriously interested in your "waxings", Dick!

Bonus tracks are tolerable (the yes ones were very good) but i think they shouldn't spoil the flow of an album.

Can't agree more with you Frenchie, I hate bonus tracks, the albums must be released the way the author designed  them.

The bonus tracks may be great in some cases (Not ususally IMHO) but those songs change the real format of the album.

Imagine somedody adding tracks to The Lamb or In the Court of the Crimson King, those masterpieces are perfect the way they are.

Iván

ivan_2068 wrote: Imagine somedody adding tracks to The Lamb or In the Court of the Crimson King, those masterpieces are perfect the way they are.

Like what happened regarding most of the Fish era albums (e.g. "Script for a Jester's tear", "Clutching at Straws", "Fugazi"...) and some of the Hogarth ones when bonus tracks and extra Cds where added up... remastering could be dangerous yet useless sometimes 

Extra live tracks sounds good to me.ELP's 'Trilogy' (Sanctuary r/m) has a previously unreleased live version of 'Hoedown'.I'd rather have that than some 'making of footage' personally. 

Personally, I love "bonus tracks", they often offer an interesting insight into the history of the tracks on the albums. The Caravan and Yes bonus tracks for example are excellent. In Caravan' case, on the "New Symphonia" album, they were used to recreate the concert in full.

You can always use the stop, skip or programme buttons on the CD player if you don't want to hear them!

I thought the way the Marillion remasters had the exta tracks on a separate CD was a great idea. The original albums were left untouched on one CD for the purists, with a plethora of extras for folks like me on the other!

Lower prices, better sound quality. Muchos older prog albums rereleased on cd sound sh*t. A simple remastering job will do, but seemingly most labels are reluctant to do that, or they do when you've already bought the damn cd out of despair. I bought KC's 'Islands' twice, the old version sounds excruciatingly bad, the remaster sounds 300 times better.

Probably I'm a purist and like to have the album exactly as it was released by the authors, I don't want to listen what a producer or a label searching for money decide is better to add.

I don't care for the lenght if a band releases an album with 80 minutes of music it's better (specially if they don't sacrifice quality for quantity as Jim said, but if the band releases an album with certain songs, I want to listen it that way.

If a band has many B sides or unreleased versions, there's always the chance to release a special album after the band is dead so we can have some new stuff after we believed we would never hear something new.

Iván

ivan_2068 wrote: Probably I'm a purist and like to have the album exactly as it was released by the authors, I don't want to listen what a producer or a label searching for money decide is better to add. I don't care for the lenght if a band releases an album with 80 minutes of music it's better (specially if they don't sacrifice quality for quantity as Jim said, but if the band releases an album with certain songs, I want to listen it that way. If a band has many B sides or unreleased versions, there's always the chance to release a special album after the band is dead so we can have some new stuff after we believed we would never hear something new. Iván

The question is... What would make a CD buyer (You) more inclined to buy a CD?

The question is... What would make a CD buyer (You) more inclined to buy a CD?

Only one thing THE MUSIC.

I don't buy an album for it's lenght, bonus tracks, beautiful art covers (though it helps a bit), footage, etc. I simply buy what I like.

Iván

I've got a very simple solution, let's just lose interest in music and take up basket weaving instead. Just kidding. I am a vinyl junkie and if I can find something on Vinyl in a second hand record shop or junk  store or a flea market I will grab that before paying $25 for a CD, anyway I'm into mostly older stuff. I find that the old analogue recordings which have been remastered and  transferred to CD sound overproduced and clinical. I will never give up my vinyl not even a team of wild horses. Nothing could improve CD's for me. I like sitting with the headphones on with album sleeve in my hand in my recliner watching the record go around on the turntable. and another thing with CD's I hate the gimmick of bonus tracks the record companies use such as studio run throughs and discarded material to jack up th prices of CD's. For example the re-mastered CD of Misplaced Childhood, the bonus tracks take up more time than the original bloody vinyl version! And no I don't own it I lisented to it at the listening station at a local music store. CD'S I have never owned a discman or walkman and believe music is a special and sacred artform  which requires your full attention. I 've even seen morons driving their cars with the things on. I guess we all have different approaches to listening, mine is more of a technical one I try to figure out the time signatures, what keys are being played in etc. it requires my complete and undivided attention somtimes I will play play a track over and over and over again until my dogs start snarling at me and my wife threatens me with slow agonizing painful death. The moog at the end of lucky man is a good example I will play that part over and over. I have favourite parts of songs whether it be prog, Elvis or Classical Music. But I guees some of you younger guys on the site grew up with CD's and that's the only format you know but that's OK. Heck I am so old as the hills that I remember 8 tracks and 45's.! But seriously I think that the way to improve CD's is to lower the prices is to stop all this downloading over the internet perhaps another format will be introduced which will prevent this. I have never down loaded music over the net it hurts the artists and the music lovers and Mariah. There! I have spoke my mind and as Maani would say peace to all.

(Danbo is that specific enough for you. Obviously I voted other)

I like the idea of a commentary by the band, but it would have to be on a seperate disc. However I generally agree with Ivan, what we want is to hear the album as the artist intended it.There is a strand of opinion (on different forums) that industry types are demanding that cd's are mastered at maximum volume-Rush's Vapor Trails being the example I am familiar with, and thus making the remaster invaluable. Remastering Vapor Trails will make me buy it again, although you have to shop around-I have purchased albums from Play.com for £7.99 that have been £14.99 in HMV. I am all for copying cd's-I know it is theft, but I view it as a black-market. Black markets exist when a product is in short supply or over-priced.Cd's will never be in short supply therefore it should be a buyers market and it is not.

Rant over.

I am all for copying cd's-I know it is theft,

Hi Reed Lover, I'm gonna give you some good news, copying a CD is not always a Civil Crime (And of course is not a felony as RIAA pretends us to believe).

If you own a legally sold album, you're entitled to make copies for your own use.

The law doesn't discriminate between formats, so if I have a vynil copy of Close to the Edge, I believe I'm entitled to make a CD copy because I already paid the rights. Courts are specific in that point, if you bought an album, you're entitled to make copies for your own use.

RIAA wants us to buy the same product as many times as posible, you may have 1 or two vynils (if one got scratched), a cassette tape bought during the late 80's when no more vynils were sold and CD was not a popular item), a CD, a remastered edition, a remnastered edition with bonus tracks and of couse a 5.1 surround edition.

This means you have to pay 6 or 7 times for the same album, I don't think so.

Iván

To respond to ivan some of my vinyl has only been played once as I was afraid I would wear it out so I would play it once and transfer it to cassette. And yes I still have a cassette player and listen to certain albums on the cassette player only especially the rare ones which aren't even available on CD. I agree with your point that once you have purchased the work you can do anything you want go use it for skeet shooting, a frisbee for your dogs, whatever, with it because the artists havee recieved their royalties. What do you guys think about buying music second hand? 

  HOW ABOUT SOME BETTER MUSIC

ivan_2068 wrote: [quote]I am all for copying cd's-I know it is theft,

Hi Reed Lover, I'm gonna give you some good news, copying a CD is not always a Civil Crime (And of course is not a felony as RIAA pretends us to believe).

If you own a legally sold album, you're entitled to make copies for your own use.

I am aware of that but I get DVD's with the UK top 60 albums on in MP3 format every fortnight. That is a wee bit naughty!

Also I distribute them amongst friends, also DVD's etc. Copying is theft if it prevents the original copyright owner from claiming his rightful earnings. I dont include replacing a damaged disc in this if you've already purchased the original. In this case the copying of CD's, DVD's and software for backup purposes should always be legal.

I agree with your point that once you have purchased the work you can do anything you want go use it for skeet shooting, a frisbee for your dogs, whatever, with it because the artists havee recieved their royalties.

I go a bit further I believe you can buy ilegal copies in CD format from the black market and it's still legal if you bought the LP's before.

I am aware of that but I get DVD's with the UK top 60 albums on in MP3 format every fortnight. Also I distribute them amongst friends, also DVD's etc.

Ok, this case is different, if you're busted this will be considered a civil crime.

Iván

ivan_2068 wrote: I agree with your point that once you have purchased the work you can do anything you want go use it for skeet shooting, a frisbee for your dogs, whatever, with it because the artists havee recieved their royalties.  I go a bit further I believe you can buy ilegal copies in CD format from the black market and it's still legal if you bought the LP's before. I am aware of that but I get DVD's with the UK top 60 albums on in MP3 format every fortnight. Also I distribute them amongst friends, also DVD's etc. Ok, this case is different, if you're busted this will be considered a civil crime. Iván

can you post bail for me, old fellow.

See you-know-who is on your case again. You 2 related or something?

I choose the last option beacuse is a rounding poll...

first, that's why "special editions" exists...

however, i rather be having more design, improved cases and of course, bonus tracks, I hate extra papers like holograms, fake tickets and all access things. But to be honest, the bottom line is to have THE BEST RECORDING EVER, with the perfect equalization, where ALL the instruments shine and nothing is in the background, an experience like no other, that can be heard anywhere and sounds great.

peace

Besides the costs (20 Euro for a cd is far too expensive), Id like the cd's to contain no specialities.

No hidden tracks

No dvd with extra featurretes

No extra songs (include them in the set or discard them, if it isn't good enough for the album don't waste my time on it, extra's on a seperate cd please. if I'm interested and I think it's worth it I'll buy it)

JUST THE MUSIC PLEASE

As for the art work, I like a good albumcover, somehow it tells something about the music, if not the musicians

Please add the lyrics, though sometimes meaningless it helps one to get through the music like a guide, for me important.

But again not to many extra's, it's not a novell or a picture book like a family album, just enough to support the music. I know there's much to say about a band and it's influence, but leave some mysticisme to the band. 

I like good pictures of the band... in case you want to scan them in and promote them on other websites....  Or frame and put on the wall... either or...

I also miss the merchandize orders... I never got my "Love Beach" jogging shorts and I'm just so bummed about that now.  I guess I'll have to bid on the next pair I see on ebay!

I don't mind bonus tracks but sometimes they really annoy me.  Take Time and a word for instance.  Three of the songs appear on the album twice, as orignals mixs or single versions, whatever.  but really, who gives a f**k ?  Why do I want to hear the same song twice.  Or even three times, as this is what happened on my version of closer to home by grand funk railroad.  I don't care about radio or single or orginal versions!  Give me the list of songs with no repeats and if you're going to tack on extras, make them different from the orginal lineup! 

Oh, and I voted for artwork.

Velvetclown wrote: I agree, who need the single edits !!!

Yep, I agree too. But I have found an exception that proves the rule: the US single version of 'Hocus Pocus' which is tacked onto the end of the 1994 album "The Best Of Focus" absolutely rocks. It's quite different from the original, which of course is also on the album. But it's the only example I've ever heard where I've been pleased a "bonus" single has been stuck on the end of a CD.

I have come across a very useful tool that would improve some Cd's; specifically the following

All ELP albums since 1977

All Genesis albums since 1977

All Yes albums since 1977

With Amazon.UK selling burnable CDs for 10 quid a hundred, i.e. 10 p each, then you have to know a recorded CD has to be the same price. So the packaging, advertising, artist royalties and significantly the price are disproportionately large. (In the Uk CDs are sold wholesale into the shops for £8 to £11 each!!!).

In my other life as a materials engineer, and about ten years ago I asked the MD of Nimbus Records, how much it cost them to manufacture a recorded CD. He was quite candid, and told me the company at the time were sub-contracted by EMI to press up most of the remastered Pink Floyd albums. His company were selling each CD to EMI, fully packaged for ~60p  and being pressed to knock 10p off that price (they did). Ten years later I'll put a small bet on  fully packaged CDs being 30 to 40p each - what 50 to 70 US cents.

My other frustration is the diabolical jewel case - makes an excellent case study (no apologies for the pun) for design students , i.e. what not to design, what plastics you shouldn't use and how a process can make  bad much worse. Gramophone magazine published a long technical letter of mine on the subject in the late 80's - clearly  little change in 15 years.