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First hint that Genesis might turn into a pop band

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Forum Name: Prog Polls
Forum Description: Create polls on topics related to progressive music
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=111877
Printed Date: September 25 2017 at 08:21
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Topic: First hint that Genesis might turn into a pop band
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Subject: First hint that Genesis might turn into a pop band
Date Posted: September 09 2017 at 11:26
What was the first hint that Genesis might turn into a pop band?



Replies:
Posted By: HemispheresOfXanadu
Date Posted: September 09 2017 at 11:44
F=/! I read that as first hint Genesis might turn into a pop brand. Like, soda or cola. I voted Misunderstanding because I thought there must be some misunderstanding. I don't doubt there is a pop brand called Genesis but it's probably unrelated to the band.

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Posted By: DeadSouls
Date Posted: September 09 2017 at 12:35
IKWIL


Posted By: Wanorak
Date Posted: September 09 2017 at 13:26
Your Own Special Way.

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A GREAT YEAR FOR PROG!!!


Posted By: noni
Date Posted: September 09 2017 at 14:35
When they got rid of Steve Hackett!!....  Frictions occurred with Tony Banks!.....


Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: September 09 2017 at 14:52
Originally posted by noni noni wrote:

When they got rid of Steve Hackett!!....  Frictions occurred with Tony Banks!.....

I agree it was when Hackett left. I mean I love pop Genesis, but yeah that's pretty much when it happened. 


Posted By: noni
Date Posted: September 09 2017 at 15:04
Originally posted by YESESIS YESESIS wrote:

Originally posted by noni noni wrote:

When they got rid of Steve Hackett!!....  Frictions occurred with Tony Banks!.....

I agree it was when Hackett left. I mean I love pop Genesis, but yeah that's pretty much when it happened. 

The same happened to Peter Gabriel too!...  Love Tony Banks work but he can become a bully !!Ouch


Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: September 09 2017 at 15:09
Follow You Follow Me was the first Genesis song I heard, which made me classify them as pop band I'm not all too interested in.
Now, 150 years later, I don't think the song is that bad actually, let alone the band as a whole.



Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: September 09 2017 at 15:16
Originally posted by noni noni wrote:

Originally posted by YESESIS YESESIS wrote:

Originally posted by noni noni wrote:

When they got rid of Steve Hackett!!....  Frictions occurred with Tony Banks!.....

I agree it was when Hackett left. I mean I love pop Genesis, but yeah that's pretty much when it happened. 

The same happened to Peter Gabriel too!...  Love Tony Banks work but he can become a bully !!Ouch
 

Yeah I've read that he and Gabriel butted heads a lot. I think that may be why Pete never wants to do anymore reunions or anything with them(since the one in '82).


Posted By: noni
Date Posted: September 09 2017 at 15:37
Originally posted by YESESIS YESESIS wrote:

Originally posted by noni noni wrote:

Originally posted by YESESIS YESESIS wrote:

Originally posted by noni noni wrote:

When they got rid of Steve Hackett!!....  Frictions occurred with Tony Banks!.....

I agree it was when Hackett left. I mean I love pop Genesis, but yeah that's pretty much when it happened. 

The same happened to Peter Gabriel too!...  Love Tony Banks work but he can become a bully !!Ouch
 

Yeah I've read that he and Gabriel butted heads a lot. I think that may be why Pete never wants to do anymore reunions or anything with them(since the one in '82).

Steve Hackett has mentioned loads of times, he will do a reunion gig with Genesis, but nothing came about it!Cry...  He does more work on their stuff then Genesis do!!!Smile


Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: September 09 2017 at 15:41
Originally posted by noni noni wrote:

Originally posted by YESESIS YESESIS wrote:

Originally posted by noni noni wrote:

Originally posted by YESESIS YESESIS wrote:

Originally posted by noni noni wrote:

When they got rid of Steve Hackett!!....  Frictions occurred with Tony Banks!.....

I agree it was when Hackett left. I mean I love pop Genesis, but yeah that's pretty much when it happened. 

The same happened to Peter Gabriel too!...  Love Tony Banks work but he can become a bully !!Ouch
 

Yeah I've read that he and Gabriel butted heads a lot. I think that may be why Pete never wants to do anymore reunions or anything with them(since the one in '82).

Steve Hackett has mentioned loads of times, he will do a reunion gig with Genesis, but nothing came about it!Cry...  He does more work on their stuff then Genesis do!!!Smile

lol yeah.. gotta love Steve. 


Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: September 09 2017 at 15:49
"simple" does not equal "pop". anyone who calls "For Absent Friends" or "Harlequin" a pop song is way off the mark


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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo pricipiis obsta


Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: September 09 2017 at 16:02
follow you follow me ----with just the 3 of them left the writing was on the wall with this catchy pop song


Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: September 09 2017 at 16:11
Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

"simple" does not equal "pop". anyone who calls "For Absent Friends" or "Harlequin" a pop song is way off the mark

Thanks for sharing your opinion. Smile


Posted By: Kepler62
Date Posted: September 09 2017 at 16:30
I went with I know what I like. At least they were one of the few to survive a transition. I stopped at ATTWT. That was about as much as I could take.. saw them in 20017 only because I got free tickets. Absolutely horrible. Mostly because of the lousy sound and the music not synching with the big screen. Absolutely one of the worst concerts I've ever been to in my whole life.


Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: September 09 2017 at 16:39
From the list, YOSW, but More Fool Me and Happy The Man where defintely earlier warnings


Posted By: Quinino
Date Posted: September 09 2017 at 16:39
"Follow You..." was actually very pleasant when I heard it then, and up to this day I still love the whole ATTWT .
BUT - from the feel of it, we could already anticipate what was coming next, couldn't we ?


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"I love Sound, but I like Silence more !"
- Mark Hollis


Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: September 09 2017 at 20:53
Either "I know what I like", "A Trick of the Tail" or "Follow you, follow me". Though they had some poppy moments before, I Know what I Like is the one that sounds to me more succesful. However, this one was on a very proggy album and even had it's proggy elements, and could be considered more like part of the whole than the new direction for the band. A Trick of the Tail is very poppy too, and given the album had some other (nice) poppy songs (and the fact that a key member of the band had just left), this should have been good signs that the band was changing their sound and direction. And then Follow you Follow me came after another key member left, and while the album did have some "conflict" between proggy and poppy tracks, the success of this particular song must have sealed the direction of the band (plus Phil's succes as a solo pop artist). However, as a first sign, I guess it should be "A Trick of the Tail".


Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: September 09 2017 at 21:12
Robbery, Assault and Battery

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A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now)


Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: September 09 2017 at 21:14
Originally posted by YESESIS YESESIS wrote:

Originally posted by noni noni wrote:

When they got rid of Steve Hackett!!....  Frictions occurred with Tony Banks!.....

I agree it was when Hackett left. I mean I love pop Genesis, but yeah that's pretty much when it happened. 

Yes, that's what did it.


Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: September 09 2017 at 22:31
The first hint that Genesis might turn into a Pop band? The seeds were there right from the outset as Genesis would still have gone in a more accessible direction if Gabriel had stayed longer, albeit one that embraced world music. Like Gabriel anticipated before them, Collins, Rutherford and Banks realised that Prog's shelf life was over circa 1976 and that to reach a larger audience, they needed to go in a more accessible direction as their previous audience had largely dispersed. It seems clear that Hackett didn't necessarily share this view. (Genesis were still heavily in debt up to the Lamb Lies Down album and Phil Collins even considered just singing in the band by offering the drum gig to Bob Henrit of Argent, who declined) It's telling that when Jazz Rock was potentially the next big lucrative thing, Phil promptly joined Brand X then departed as soon as the cash registers refused to ring loudly enough. Similarly, he's embraced pretty much every extant contemporary style that's been in vogue from Motown, R'n'B, romantic ballads, to Big Band and even became an incredibly unconvincing actor for a while. Phil bashing has become wearyingly de rigueur over the last few years and although online petitions to dissuade him from returning to the music industry are of course crassly inappropriate, they're not entirely without a sliver of merit.


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Posted By: Tillerman88
Date Posted: September 09 2017 at 22:35
The great Phil Collins hahahah 

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The overwhelming amount of information on a daily basis restrains people from rewinding the news record archives to refresh their memories...


Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: September 09 2017 at 23:45
Genesis WERE a pop band with Silent Sun. They chose more musically ambitious paths thereafter.
I Know What I Like - great Pop song with Gabriel.
Trick Of The Tail - great Pop song with Collins.
They always had 'Pop' in them. Fortunately, they knew how to balance it out and impress, and that goes for We Can't Dance too !!
Though Invisible Touch hasn't aged well AT ALL.


Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: September 10 2017 at 00:14
Rutherford's Your Own Special Way


Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: September 10 2017 at 01:19
Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

Robbery, Assault and Battery

respectfully disgree

this is a mini-rock opera in the tradition of Harold The Barrel, Get Them out By Friday, Epping Forest tradition... and All In A Mouse's Night in W&W.


Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: September 10 2017 at 03:08
Genesis never were a pop band. 

What they did after Hackett left was to make more accessible prog, interspersed with some shorter, more commercial songs. This combination appealed to a wider audience and was more commercially successful.

Personally, I preferred their older material and rarely listen to anything outside the Trespass - Selling England period, though everything up to Wind and Wuthering is pretty good. After that, bits are very good (even the singles) but they pale in comparison.

Perhaps if they'd changed their name and become a new band, they'd have avoided adverse comparisons to some extent.


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A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life.


Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: September 10 2017 at 08:18
Follow You Follow Me. Steve Hackett had left and the left hand of Tony Banks ceased to be active.

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Posted By: Mormegil
Date Posted: September 10 2017 at 08:59
Follow You Follow Me.
Or pretty much after Mr. Hackett left.


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Welcome to the middle of the film.


Posted By: noni
Date Posted: September 10 2017 at 09:10
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

Robbery, Assault and Battery

respectfully disgree

this is a mini-rock opera in the tradition of Harold The Barrel, Get Them out By Friday, Epping Forest tradition... and All In A Mouse's Night in W&W.

I agree!!  Smile


Posted By: Upbeat Tango Monday
Date Posted: September 10 2017 at 09:51
I know what I like

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Two random guys agreed to shake hands. Just Because. They felt like it, you know. It was an agreement of sorts...a random agreement.


Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: September 11 2017 at 07:53
Genesis' turn to commercial success follows the same trajectory as Phil's rise as one of the biggest hit making pop stars of recent times. I still believe Banks can do it all but prefers prog and classical music---Rutherford is a mixed bag but Mike and Mechanics smell like pop music to me. At this point a Hackett/Banks collaboration would be my dream come true. Then again GTR with Howe and Hackett was my dream come true with clearly mixed results! LOL


Posted By: miamiscot
Date Posted: September 11 2017 at 08:57
"Your Own Special Way" felt like a real change in purpose for the band. 


Posted By: CapnBearbossa
Date Posted: September 11 2017 at 10:21
I said Afterglow, but I actually believe the answer's more complex, and the process was maybe more gradual.  They needed a concert staple that would attract women, so they did "Follow You Follow Me".  Attw3 , Duke and Abacab all had great proggy tunes but a good measure of pop, as if just to show they enjoyed the male fans bringing girlfriends along to their concerts.... But the self-titled album in '83 was the first clear sign, I think, of their commitment to being a pop band. (Not that there's anything wrong with that! )


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Will higher mighty force redeem
the one who dropped the moral compass,
failed to fulfill the dream?
-Ian Anderson


Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: September 11 2017 at 10:25
Your Own Special Way 

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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.


Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: September 11 2017 at 11:33
Good choices. Although one might argue that Genesis started-out as a sort of pop band, I'll go with "Silent Sun" off From Genesis to Revelation -- I like the song, and find the album quite charming incidentally.

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"The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They donít alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit the views" (Doctor Who - The Face of Evil, Jan 22, 1977).


Posted By: cemego
Date Posted: September 11 2017 at 11:35
I heard a long time ago that at some point, Phil Collins or Genesis (as a whole) were in Cologne Germany for some reason, and Phil bumped into Conny Plank who told him that he was a "soul singer" and this was before Duke ... and I think that tainted Phil to become more of a pop star/soul screamer singer.  You can hear he sings less and souls it up more starting with Duke.  Any one else hear this?

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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: September 11 2017 at 20:06
Originally posted by twosteves twosteves wrote:

Genesis' turn to commercial success follows the same trajectory as Phil's rise as one of the biggest hit making pop stars of recent times. I still believe Banks can do it all but prefers prog and classical music---Rutherford is a mixed bag but Mike and Mechanics smell like pop music to me. At this point a Hackett/Banks collaboration would be my dream come true. Then again GTR with Howe and Hackett was my dream come true with clearly mixed results! LOL


Oh yes, it would be great if Hackett and Banks teamed up to do another Genesis Revisited tour, and then a new studio album. Much better than a Genesis reunios of the 80's line-up. But then again, as I understand it, it's exactly those two that have the biggest grudge, and so the least likely reunion to happen.


Posted By: Magnum Vaeltaja
Date Posted: September 11 2017 at 21:54
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Good choices. Although one might argue that Genesis started-out as a sort of pop band, I'll go with "Silent Sun" off From Genesis to Revelation -- I like the song, and find the album quite charming incidentally.


I'll have to agree with this one. I don't think it's so accurate to say Genesis was a prog band that turned pop, so much as they started as a pop band and just got a little sidetracked along the way.


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when i was a kid a doller was worth ten dollers - now a doller couldnt even buy you fifty cents


Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: September 12 2017 at 09:12
They never did entirely.

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"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon (?) it." - Eno


Posted By: iluvmarillion
Date Posted: September 13 2017 at 01:26
Originally posted by Hercules Hercules wrote:

Genesis never were a pop band. 

What they did after Hackett left was to make more accessible prog, interspersed with some shorter, more commercial songs. This combination appealed to a wider audience and was more commercially successful.

Personally, I preferred their older material and rarely listen to anything outside the Trespass - Selling England period, though everything up to Wind and Wuthering is pretty good. After that, bits are very good (even the singles) but they pale in comparison.

Perhaps if they'd changed their name and become a new band, they'd have avoided adverse comparisons to some extent.
Always felt Collins and Rutherford were good musicians whose sensibilities were more attuned to pop than prog rock, but were contained within the band while Gabriel, Phillips, Hackett and Banks were in the majority. When Hackett left, Banks was outnumbered, hence the direction Genesis went into staring with ATTWT. 



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