Van Der Graaf Generator - Another amazing band. More consistent than TD but none of their albums stun me as much as the first 3 TD albums. I don't know if it's Hammill's vocals you have a problem with or if maybe you've only heard Pawn Hearts but otherwise I don't see why someone who loves classic prog like you seem to do would not like VDGG. I suggest listening to Godbluff if you have trouble getting into them, if any is going to make you love them it's this one.The Least We Can Do is Wave to Each Other and H to He Who Am the Only One are lighter and Pawn Hearts is perhaps the most ambitious beast of all classic prog.

IQ - zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

lmao. This is helpful thanks. My issue with VDGG is that(from what I've heard from them) a lot of their lyrics seem to be basically negative in tone, and I don't like that. I like happy, silly stuff like my man Zappa. It's an even bigger issue with IQ, yes. TD was starting to put me to sleep when I listened to them lol. Maybe I should try meditating to it. Anyway, thanks again. Really good post. 

.

Dellinger wrote: I know very little TD and IQ, just one album, but VDGG are really a prog legend, so I guess it should be them. What is it that you have heard and not liked... or disliked less (or perhaps something you have actually liked). If now whole album had done the trick for you, then perhaps some songs? My particular list of very very favourite songs are: Darkness, Man-Erg, A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers (first 10 1/2 min), The Sleepwalkers, La Rossa. And perhaps the very best songs to try to warm up to them would be Darkness and Refugees. Now, on an off-topic recommendation, since you already have had some time to get into Neal Morse (surely much more than myself), if you haven't, you should really check out Big Big Train (from Underfall Yard until now, very specially the English Electric albums), they are really great, warm, positive, etc, with a very Genesis-like pastoral (and symphonic) feel (but without the trademark Gabriel theatrics).

Thanks for the suggestions man. 

Logan wrote: Try meditating to this: Anyway, I love both VdGG, especially for, as I've said before, The Least we Can Do Is Wave to Eachother -- I find Refugees and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cM-FfE_DBLY" rel="nofollow - Out of My Book lovely, and I love TD. That said, I vote for TD. I used to only really love the first four albums by TD and the, I think really excellent Ricochet which I recommend you close your eyes to and give a spin at some time, but I've grown to like far more by the act. Hopefully you will come up with a VdGG songlist that you like (was going to suggest that too) even if you don't like full albums.

Geez you really do know your stuff, that song was wonderful for meditating. And I may have to try VdGG again, there's at least hope for them lol. King Crimson, IQ, Opeth.. I don't think so. Magma I want to like, but oh well. And this Tangerine Dream, if they have more stuff like THAT... I'm so in. Thank you for posting that. 

I'll have to listen to Ricochet album some time. 

I didn't like any VdGG until a few months ago and none of the top rated albums did it for me, but "The Quiet Zone/The Pleasure Dome" and "Vital" did.

Phaedra, Rubycon, Ricochet  ...    Amazing

I like IQ, and they're doing great work right now. But if you can acquire the appreciation of Hammil's vocal, VdGG is quite the more central figure in Prog. 

However, if you don't like negative lyrics, then perhaps it's just not your thing. 

 

 

Which albums did you hear?

VDGG have also had their up and downs with their album too.

My vote vote goes to IQ,  always fresh and never a dull album.  All unique and different,  which is what I like in most bands..

If that's your criteria then you should listen to Wishbone Ash, they fit that to a tee imo. 

IQ are one of my favourite bands but I do think some of their albums are a bit overated especially Dark Matter. The last couple have been really good. If you try Road Of Bones make sure its the 2 disc edition while Frequency has the superb drumming of Andy Edwards and is possibly their most dynamic album. Although I like Ever a lot I wouldn't start with that at all as it is one of those slow burners.

VDGG I am becoming a lot more fond of. Godbluff has to be the best one to start with and not Pawn Hearts although I really like both.

Tangerine Dream? - well I became a fan of their eighties stuff and not the much vaunted seventies ambient releases. However that said Ricochet is a perfect balance between what they started off being and what they were to become. I would start with that or the very 'proggy' Force Majeure which is very easy to enjoy. If you don't like either of those then give up straight away!

Logan wrote: Glad you liked it. Some others you might enjoy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TA8y8DUXW6w" rel="nofollow - Silver Scale https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwQvCldS3N8" rel="nofollow - Valley of the Sun (this is representative of the kind of music I used to be really big on). Tangerine Dream - Horizon from 1983 (picks up into the track):

I just listened to all three of these and liked the first two a ton. The third one was a tad boring for stretches but definitely had it's moments as well. Many thanks, I may have found my perfect band to meditate to!  

The other two are completely without interest to me, but VDGG might be if it wasn't for the vocals.

I have all Wishbone Ash's music.  That's not the point of this thread!...

Oh, you're who decides what the point of this thread is lol. Ok my mistake then. 

Logan wrote: Yeah, of the instrumentals, I always loved Theme One:

That was actually really good, thanks! 

Logan wrote: Glad you like it. I like the upbeatness of it. I'd quite like to make a CD mix with that, Peaches en Regalia, and various other music at some time.

I have no doubt that you could make one heck of a "Greatest Hits of Prog" CD. Most likely spill over into being a double cd(even triple or quadruple lol). 

VDGG is just not my thing.  And I just don't think IQ are good at all

Lewian wrote: I can't really assess your taste but I can imagine that Edgar Froese's two best solo efforts, Epsilon in Malaysian Pale and Stuntman, could be up with TD's best for you.

Stuntman is Froese's best solo record, IMO (though ALL of them are great). It's a marvelous listen from beginning to end, and it's been my favorite of his since I first heard it. 

Logan wrote: "Ramble chat, let's have a ramble chat. We'll focus first on this, and then on that" (Adam Buxton's podcast song). No one has to like anything, nor can everyone like everything. I take that as a given. It is hyperbole to say "having something for everybody." I would posit that there's pretty much something for most every taste in these acts at least when it comes to the kinds of people who would join this site and wish to explore diverse music. In the case of John (aka YESESIS), he is interested enough to do this poll and has enjoyed music that has been mentioned in this thread. I've done much the same before. While I'm not everybody of course, in every case someone has taken the time has found something that appealed to me in acts that I didn't like. One might say that perhaps I am not the most discerning of individuals, but I like that people try to keep an open mind and open ears and are willing to change opinions. I sometimes find that music that does not appeal to me at one time will appeal at another time. I love Zeit, but I didn't immediately like all of it, and at another time in my life it would not have appealed. It helps when you find another act in the category that you like. Edgar Froese's Epsilon in Malaysian Pale was one of the albums that first did it for me and opened my ears up to more music (incidentally, I far prefer the original LP when it comes to that album).. My tastes have expanded as I've been exposed to more types of music (new neural pathways are created as we are exposed to new things -- we can't help but change through experience). I think most who have reasonably diverse tastes in music represented at PA would find music to like by all three acts -- even if it just one piece of music, or even just one phrase, or even a note played in a certain way that can resonate with you. That can lead to liking more -- sometimes it just takes a musical moment to latch onto before new avenues open up. "I was totally hating this song until that G# which totally blew my mind." If one doesn't like Hammill's vocals, well perhaps a VdGG instrumental such as Theme One (which was actually written by George Martin and is not really representative of VdGG) might appeal. If Godbluff doesn't appeal to one, that doesn't mean that there is no chance that the Aerosol grey machine doesn't appeal. I could imagine VdGG songs like "Out of My Book" , "Refugees" and much of "House With No Door" appealing to people who don't like, say, "Lenmmings". VdGG is quite diverse. John mentioned not liking the negativity in the lyrics of VdGG, and that helps for recommendations since then we should be focusing on things that are more upbeat, less morose and more fun. If the problem for someone who has heard Tangerine Dream is that it seems to lack excitement, well, maybe something like "Cloudburst Flight" off Force Majeure will appeal. In the case of people who are dismissive of musical acts, often it's because they didn't hear the right music for them or they didn't hear it at the right time. It helps to be in the right mindset and for the music to resonate with whatever kinds of music you are into at the time. I love Tangerine Dream and VdGG, but I don't want to listen to them every day. Some days I just want Ennio Morricone, at other times it's Beethoven, at other times it might be Cream, and at other times I want jazz or I want folk or electronic music. I like music that fits a mood and different things excite me at different times. I'm a bit obsessive. Recently I was just wanting to listen to Matt Berry and the Wicker Man soundtrack (for the original film). It's true that there is so much music out there that I don't feel the need to try to like something, but I do like to be exposed to diverse music, and the more music I appreciate the more I might be able to find in common with other people at the site. I like having a fairly informed opinion about a wide range of music and topics, and I like connecting with as much of this community as possible, so I like to find things in common. I am interested in getting to know better what other people like and finding that I can have some appreciation for that. There is a social element to it. I've been negative about music in the past based on a not full enough understanding of the musical expression, or ignorance through not knowing enough of the discography, and then I've explored more deeply because I regretted being critical and have found that there is music that I like in that category or by that artist. That helps to become more open-minded and tolerant, and in the case of a fairly cynical person like me, its helped me to be more respectful and less sure of my opinions. It can be humbling. It can he really cool when your mind is changed about something and when you discover something you like that you held in low regard, or just didn't like. But I digress. I do like to ramble on sometimes. "Leaves are falling all around It's time I was on my way Thanks to you I'm much obliged For such a pleasant stay But now it's time for me to go The autumn moon lights my way" (Led Zeppelin - "Ramble on").

Thank you for this post. It was a really good read. The part I bolded is very Buddhist. Thich Nhat Hanh talks a lot about questioning your beliefs and opinions, and constantly asking yourself, "am I sure?" 

I'm very open to all different kinds of music but, as a Christian,... I understand that "King Crimson" means...

And stuff like Opeth, I just can't. Call me a "prude" or whatever you want. So far I'm liking Tangerine Dream, largely thanks to you. Think I'll listen to some good ole Uncle Frank now, he makes me laugh. 

Peter wrote: TD are almost entirely instrumental, but not the other two (excellent) bands. Thus, TD make good background for loving, lying down, reading, etc. They have been the backdrop for much of my life, and that's special. You can also focus on TD as foreground music, but that's really ALL I do with IQ or VDGG. Thus, I have more "use" for TD, and I play them far more often than the other two. I can also play TD around non-Prog fans--less so IQ, and not at all VDGG. I pretty much have to be alone if Hammil is going to sing! 😬

This is actually helpful, thanks. I can totally go for music that is just music(no singing). If that's what most of their stuff is then oh yeah.. I like it. 

And, ironically, I like that VDGG guy's voice. That definitely isn't my issue with them. 

Ok, my big question with them is what exactly does "Godbluff" mean?

IQ

Larkstongue41 wrote: ^ My pleasure. Since you mention Zappa, let me randomly suggest you to check out Samla Mammas Manna. Quite similar to Zappa both musically and humouristically, you should dig them.

I second that emotion.  It's difficult to conceive of the Samlas (or spinoff Von Zamla) failing to cheer anyone up.  The humor is both in the lyrics and in the melodies/arrangements, as Larkstongue41 sez.  Also along those lines, although very hard to find these days, is Dr. Dopo Jam, a Danish band from the early '70s.  Both of their 1st 2 albums (Entrée & Fat Dogs and Danishmen) are outstanding.  Their 3rd (Cruisin' at Midnight) appears to have been recorded subsequent to a humorectomy.

I voted for VdGG, but don't sweat it if you can't get into them.  Not everyone can like everything.  I've never really appreciated TD, for instance.  Peter's lyrics are certainly gloomy, but that doesn't bother me since I can be such an existential nihilist at times that I make Nietzsche look like Barney the Purple Dinosaur.  Peter's voice, as has been mentioned, can also be an acquired taste.  I acquired it about as fast as I acquired a taste for Dove ice cream bars, but he's been accused of sounding histrionic and that isn't entirely unjust.  I like that you're willing to keep trying, but if it doesn't work move on.  There's more stuff around to love than any of us will ever have time for.

Logan wrote: I googled and found a thread at progressiveears which you might find an interesting read http://www.progressiveears.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-1327.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.progressiveears.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-1327.html That thread is influencing what I'm writing below. I haven't analysed his lyrics much, which I would want to do on that album to get a fuller picture, but I have read that he would describe his music to journalists as "Godbluff" before. I have read that Hammill identifies as an agnostic (what I call agnostic atheism or soft atheism but some might claim it to be agnostic theism), and that the title is not a refutation of God's existence (Hammill doesn't know), but implies a distrust in the veracity of religious claims. How can we know as we sleepwalk towards death? It's a statement of scepticism one might say. Bucka001, who posts here, wrote a book on VdGG, and is a Christian, mentioned the following Peter Hammill interview snippet from 1980 in which Hammill apparently said: "I was taught by the Jesuits for nine years which I think is significant not only in this area but in terms of my whole approach to things. I'm fairly classic Jesuit -- educated ex-Catholic Artist, of which there are many examples... [On the question of guilt] Perhaps, but not at the top of my brain. Perhaps that's the driving force down there, perhaps that's the Jesuit gift. It's not something I'm consciously aware of all the time as I say I'm not a Catholic anymore. But if it was a 'yes' or 'no' then I'd have to say I believe in God, or all gods, or something. I feel it, but I don't know. Even 'The Lie' is actually a highly religious song because it's not "All religion is bunk," it's "why is this sort of religion bunk when I have these feelings?"

So it sounds like he wasn't mocking God's existence then. And even feels like there probably is a God. Ok that's comforting. Thank you, this is really helpful. I had gone to Wikipedia and read the article on that album, but there was nothing about what the title means. Then I read some reviews of the album, like from allmusic etc. But again nothing. So thank you again. You've actually been super helpful on this thread. Looks like he's not an evil person, like some of the others. So I will definitely have to give their music another chance.. especially considering how popular they are on here. KC, no. Magma, no. But this band, yeah I think so. 

Yeah that's a good point. I already listen to a lot of my man Frank, Wishbone Ash, Gentle Giant, Classic Genesis, Yes.. 

Dellinger wrote: I'm not... well, I do am Catholic... but mostly in name. I have become distanced from practicing and all, and many things that the church proclaims rather bother me. However, I do try to stay away from music with satanic references... or in general evil ones. In the case of King Crimson, I don't think they were satanic... but there may be a few awkward things going on. In the case of Opeth, I think Akerfeldt does have an interest to such themes... but the one that really takes things to another level is Therion (even their name is greek for "Beast"), since the guy that writes their lyrics is leader to an occultist magical order (Dragon Rouge)... and it's a pity, since their music is rather great. For such bands, I try to find the songs that don't get into such themes, though.

Well I think Catholicism tends to be kind of strict. I'm Episcopalian myself, which is way more relaxed and even(at least the churches I've been to) tolerant of gay marriage, etc. But certainly you can have a personal relationship with God, without religion though. In a lot of ways it's probably better even. 

hmm does this mean I should give Phaedra another chance, or is it as completely different from Cloudburst Flight as I think it is? 

Couldn't have put it better. Some good. Some of the good is outstanding. Some not so good.