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Larks' Tongues in Aspic vs Relayer

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Topic: Larks' Tongues in Aspic vs Relayer
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Subject: Larks' Tongues in Aspic vs Relayer
Date Posted: December 16 2017 at 09:25
Which of these do you prefer?



Replies:
Posted By: Larkstongue41
Date Posted: December 16 2017 at 09:35
Larks. Still the most musically eye-opening experience I've ever had.

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"Larks' tongues. Wrens' livers. Chaffinch brains. Jaguars' earlobes. Wolf nipple chips. Get 'em while they're hot. They're lovely. Dromedary pretzels, only half a denar."


Posted By: mechanicalflattery
Date Posted: December 16 2017 at 09:45
I'm 90% sure this has been done before, but it's a good comparison between two very close albums nonetheless. Larks is an understandable choice, but my appreciation of Relayer has really strengthened in the last year or so; it's my favorite Yes album now. Meanwhile, Larks is still second to Lizard.


Posted By: frankbostick
Date Posted: December 16 2017 at 09:54
Larks 
Relayer


Posted By: tboyd1802
Date Posted: December 16 2017 at 09:57
While I like Relayer, Larks' tongues easily...

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He neither drank, smoked, nor rode a bicycle. Living frugally, saving his money, he died early, surrounded by greedy relatives. It was a great lesson to me -- John Barrymore


Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: December 16 2017 at 09:59
Though a close race, Lark's takes my vote, today, tomorrow and always.


Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: December 16 2017 at 10:28
Larks reset the musical landscape for me, still a top 5 album.

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Ian






Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: December 16 2017 at 10:32
Originally posted by mechanicalflattery mechanicalflattery wrote:

I'm 90% sure this has been done before, but it's a good comparison between two very close albums nonetheless. Larks is an understandable choice, but my appreciation of Relayer has really strengthened in the last year or so; it's my favorite Yes album now. Meanwhile, Larks is still second to Lizard.

Yes, it was a little over a year ago. I should have searched google first. Oh well. I guess I could delete this poll but that poll only had the two options where with mine I added two more options. 




Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: December 16 2017 at 10:32
Relayer for me.  I've always liked the live versions of the Larks songs on USA/Great Deceiver/The Road to Red/etc much better than the studio versions Wink


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https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987


Posted By: Magnum Vaeltaja
Date Posted: December 16 2017 at 10:46
Originally posted by frankbostick frankbostick wrote:

Larks 
Relayer

Same here.


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when i was a kid a doller was worth ten dollers - now a doller couldnt even buy you fifty cents


Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: December 16 2017 at 11:13
Relayer.

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Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: December 16 2017 at 11:53
Relayer


Posted By: dwill123
Date Posted: December 16 2017 at 12:00


Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: December 16 2017 at 12:40
LTiA

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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...


Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: December 16 2017 at 12:47
Relayer is really important to me, because itīs first prog album Iīve ever heard. But still I say Larks.


Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: December 16 2017 at 13:16
Relayer

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http://www.ebay.com/sch/musicosm/m.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1" rel="nofollow - https://www.ebay.com/sch/musicosm/m.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1


Posted By: DeadSouls
Date Posted: December 16 2017 at 13:58
KC


Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: December 16 2017 at 14:02
Larks

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A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now)


Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: December 16 2017 at 15:42
RIP Yes 


Posted By: maryes
Date Posted: December 16 2017 at 15:56
Relayer


Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: December 16 2017 at 16:41
Am I correct in assuming that King Crimson is much more popular among younger fans these days than Yes is? I'm not just saying that because of this poll. It's just a feeling I get in general. Yes are not seen as cool anymore it seems.


Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: December 16 2017 at 17:00
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Am I correct in assuming that King Crimson is much more popular among younger fans these days than Yes is? I'm not just saying that because of this poll. It's just a feeling I get in general. Yes are not seen as cool anymore it seems.

Does this thread look familiar to you? http://progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=110484" rel="nofollow - http://progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=110484

All hope is not lost fellow Yes fans!


Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: December 16 2017 at 17:41
LTIA, although I love both.  

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I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!!


Posted By: Squonk19
Date Posted: December 16 2017 at 18:09
I prefer Yes to King Crimson, overall - but have to say that LTIA edges Relayer. Gates of Delirium is great, but still don't think the rest of the album stands up to that track. King Crimson are just doing more on this album (even though I prefer Red).

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"...and the man in the mirror has sad eyes..."


Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: December 16 2017 at 20:05
Originally posted by YESESIS YESESIS wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Am I correct in assuming that King Crimson is much more popular among younger fans these days than Yes is? I'm not just saying that because of this poll. It's just a feeling I get in general. Yes are not seen as cool anymore it seems.

Does this thread look familiar to you? http://progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=110484" rel="nofollow - http://progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=110484

All hope is not lost fellow Yes fans!

That doesn't mean anything. Lol. Look at all the people who probably only have "Dark Side of the Moon" as the only Pink Floyd album they own. That doesn't make them big Pink Floyd fans. Wink


Posted By: mlkpad14
Date Posted: December 16 2017 at 20:08
Originally posted by YESESIS YESESIS wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Am I correct in assuming that King Crimson is much more popular among younger fans these days than Yes is? I'm not just saying that because of this poll. It's just a feeling I get in general. Yes are not seen as cool anymore it seems.

Does this thread look familiar to you? http://progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=110484" rel="nofollow - http://progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=110484

All hope is not lost fellow Yes fans!

I am a younger fan.

CTTE is my favorite album by Yes, and between King Crimson and Yes, it ranks just after LTIA. However, then King Crimson take over... I like Yes, but sometimes they can be on the more boring side. That is why I prefer the poppier 90125, for example. I saw Yes live though, and it was very sensational and all!


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https://gamecrazyprofessional.weebly.com/


Posted By: mechanicalflattery
Date Posted: December 16 2017 at 20:20
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by YESESIS YESESIS wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Am I correct in assuming that King Crimson is much more popular among younger fans these days than Yes is? I'm not just saying that because of this poll. It's just a feeling I get in general. Yes are not seen as cool anymore it seems.

Does this thread look familiar to you?  http://progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=110484" rel="nofollow - http://progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=110484

All hope is not lost fellow Yes fans!

That doesn't mean anything. Lol. Look at all the people who probably only have "Dark Side of the Moon" as the only Pink Floyd album they own. That doesn't make them big Pink Floyd fans. Wink

Fair enough, but we're arguably comparing KC's second most popular album (on this site) to what I would tentatively judge to be Yes' third or fourth most popular. 

Granted, KC feels a tad more timeless, where Yes can instantly be placed in the 70's by the high-pitched vocals, quasi-spiritual lyrics, and greater keyboard emphasis. Perhaps KC has that heavy edge that lets them cross over with metal, punk, and alt rock listeners. Nonetheless, Yes is easily going strong (among prog fans; the general public knows little about either group, 80's pop aside).

As for Floyd, they're a unique case. They crossed over in a way that no other prog or experimental act in the 70's did. Little can be extrapolated from their fandom or from just how bizarrely their pre-DSOTM material is forgotten. 


Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: December 16 2017 at 21:17
Originally posted by mechanicalflattery mechanicalflattery wrote:

Fair enough, but we're arguably comparing KC's second most popular album (on this site) to what I would tentatively judge to be Yes' third or fourth most popular.

Great point.

Put Close to the Edge up against any KC album and watch what happens. Wink


Posted By: Magnum Vaeltaja
Date Posted: December 16 2017 at 21:40
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Am I correct in assuming that King Crimson is much more popular among younger fans these days than Yes is? I'm not just saying that because of this poll. It's just a feeling I get in general. Yes are not seen as cool anymore it seems.

You'd be surprised, actually...

I wouldn't say that either band necessarily has any "mainstream" popularity among young people, but among the other young prog fans I know, they're both very well respected. And then there are some young people who love Yes but don't even necessarily know King Crimson (and vice versa, mind you). I was actually at a college party a few months ago and met two or three other students there who were super into 70's Yes (we debated for quite a bit at whether The Yes Album or Fragile was better and eventually hijacked the party playlist to put on Yours Is No Disgrace). Good times. 

So I wouldn't say that King Crimson is much more popular among young people than King Crimson is, but then again neither is especially popular in the first place.


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when i was a kid a doller was worth ten dollers - now a doller couldnt even buy you fifty cents


Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: December 16 2017 at 22:13
Actually, I'm the one who did this poll (almost) some time ago (with less options)... I don't even remember what I myself voted for... if I voted at all on it. But I find it difficult to vote, since in general I think Larks Tongues is better and more consistent, but Gates of Delirium is for me better than anything on Larks (or almost any other King Crimson song)... yet the rest of Relayer I can't really apreciate as much.


Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: December 16 2017 at 22:43
I donīt think I am a young anymore...


Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: December 16 2017 at 22:44
very different albums----KC sounds cooler but the electronic jazzy orchestration and sheer power of Relayer is breathtaking if you are open to it---I like both but think I've listened to Relayer more.


Posted By: Wanorak
Date Posted: December 17 2017 at 08:29
Tough one, but Relayer. If it was Red then I would pick it.

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A GREAT YEAR FOR PROG!!!


Posted By: TexasKing
Date Posted: December 17 2017 at 08:51
Relayer. 


Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: December 17 2017 at 09:26
Originally posted by Magnum Vaeltaja Magnum Vaeltaja wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Am I correct in assuming that King Crimson is much more popular among younger fans these days than Yes is? I'm not just saying that because of this poll. It's just a feeling I get in general. Yes are not seen as cool anymore it seems.

You'd be surprised, actually...

I wouldn't say that either band necessarily has any "mainstream" popularity among young people, but among the other young prog fans I know, they're both very well respected. And then there are some young people who love Yes but don't even necessarily know King Crimson (and vice versa, mind you). I was actually at a college party a few months ago and met two or three other students there who were super into 70's Yes (we debated for quite a bit at whether The Yes Album or Fragile was better and eventually hijacked the party playlist to put on Yours Is No Disgrace). Good times. 

So I wouldn't say that King Crimson is much more popular among young people than King Crimson is, but then again neither is especially popular in the first place.

Well, I don't know where you live but it doesn't seem to be that way in the US. I would love to be proven wrong but in the US at least it seems most younger people into prog are into prog metal and or other newer bands and not much into Yes(this site would be an exception of course). What is my basis for saying this? Well, I have spent time on prog facebook gruops, Yes facebook groups and on their fan site and there seems to be hardly anyone in any of them under 45. So maybe only the hardcore fans are older. I'm not sure. You are right that over all they aren't that known but in my opinion Yes seems to be far more under rated and under appreciated than they should be by younger fans(at least in the US). Just my opinion based on my observation. I think KC has some kind of street cred or hipster respect that Yes doesn't. If you look on the rate your music site which is probably mostly younger people ITCOTCK has 18,000 ratings where CTTE "only" has 12,000.


Posted By: Larkstongue41
Date Posted: December 17 2017 at 09:39
^ From my experience, overexposure to classic rock causes millenials to not care about rock music in general. They see Yes as just another classic rock band although more inventive and ambitious (which is a reason to mock Yes for some, I've seen that) whereas King Crimson is this obscure-sounding band so very different from traditional rock. It's like nothing they've ever heard before. And yes King Crimson does seem to have a certain hipster following although I hate using that term.

So I think it mostly has to do with how much King Crimson is "authentic", "creative" and free of boundaries compared to most well-known prog bands (not to say that this makes them better btw).


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"Larks' tongues. Wrens' livers. Chaffinch brains. Jaguars' earlobes. Wolf nipple chips. Get 'em while they're hot. They're lovely. Dromedary pretzels, only half a denar."


Posted By: Zugzwang
Date Posted: December 17 2017 at 09:44
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Magnum Vaeltaja Magnum Vaeltaja wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Am I correct in assuming that King Crimson is much more popular among younger fans these days than Yes is? I'm not just saying that because of this poll. It's just a feeling I get in general. Yes are not seen as cool anymore it seems.

You'd be surprised, actually...

I wouldn't say that either band necessarily has any "mainstream" popularity among young people, but among the other young prog fans I know, they're both very well respected. And then there are some young people who love Yes but don't even necessarily know King Crimson (and vice versa, mind you). I was actually at a college party a few months ago and met two or three other students there who were super into 70's Yes (we debated for quite a bit at whether The Yes Album or Fragile was better and eventually hijacked the party playlist to put on Yours Is No Disgrace). Good times. 

So I wouldn't say that King Crimson is much more popular among young people than King Crimson is, but then again neither is especially popular in the first place.

Well, I don't know where you live but it doesn't seem to be that way in the US. I would love to be proven wrong but in the US at least it seems most younger people into prog are into prog metal and or other newer bands and not much into Yes(this site would be an exception of course). What is my basis for saying this? Well, I have spent time on prog facebook gruops, Yes facebook groups and on their fan site and there seems to be hardly anyone in any of them under 45. So maybe only the hardcore fans are older. I'm not sure. You are right that over all they aren't that known but in my opinion Yes seems to be far more under rated and under appreciated than they should be by younger fans(at least in the US). Just my opinion based on my observation. I think KC has some kind of street cred or hipster respect that Yes doesn't. If you look on the rate your music site which is probably mostly younger people ITCOTCK has 18,000 ratings where CTTE "only" has 12,000.

In my personal experience, people are way more interested in modern djent/prog metal than anything from the 70s


Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: December 17 2017 at 10:02
I like both, but Lark's Tongues is the deeper, more ground-breaking, important album.
My favourite tracks on each are the most beautiful: Exiles on LTIA and To Be Over, on Relayer.
Those songs are absolutely essential to me!

-------------
"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.


Posted By: hellogoodbye
Date Posted: December 17 2017 at 11:16
Larks, no doubt.


Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: December 17 2017 at 12:12
Somewhat against the stream of things I prefer KC to Yes but Relayer to LTIA.
Relayer is Yes's best for me whereas I find about 5 KC albums I'd rank before LTIA, which still is a fine album of course.


Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: December 17 2017 at 13:52
[In my personal experience, people are way more interested in modern djent/prog metal than anything from the 70s]

I would agree as far as younger people(in their twenties and younger). At least this is how it seems for sure. For most of the older prog fans probably not as much unless they are more into metal in the first place. 


Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: December 17 2017 at 13:58
[Fair enough, but we're arguably comparing KC's second most popular album (on this site) to what I would tentatively judge to be Yes' third or fourth most popular.]

Do you mean third or fourth most popular among prog fans or just in general? 90125 would be more popular in general but probably not among prog fans. I would say CTTE, TYA and Fragile would be ahead of it and maybe GFTO but probably not TFTO. 


Posted By: Dopeydoc
Date Posted: December 17 2017 at 15:35
Relayer


Posted By: Magnum Vaeltaja
Date Posted: December 17 2017 at 20:48
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Magnum Vaeltaja Magnum Vaeltaja wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Am I correct in assuming that King Crimson is much more popular among younger fans these days than Yes is? I'm not just saying that because of this poll. It's just a feeling I get in general. Yes are not seen as cool anymore it seems.

You'd be surprised, actually...

I wouldn't say that either band necessarily has any "mainstream" popularity among young people, but among the other young prog fans I know, they're both very well respected. And then there are some young people who love Yes but don't even necessarily know King Crimson (and vice versa, mind you). I was actually at a college party a few months ago and met two or three other students there who were super into 70's Yes (we debated for quite a bit at whether The Yes Album or Fragile was better and eventually hijacked the party playlist to put on Yours Is No Disgrace). Good times. 

So I wouldn't say that King Crimson is much more popular among young people than King Crimson is, but then again neither is especially popular in the first place.

Well, I don't know where you live but it doesn't seem to be that way in the US. I would love to be proven wrong but in the US at least it seems most younger people into prog are into prog metal and or other newer bands and not much into Yes(this site would be an exception of course). What is my basis for saying this? Well, I have spent time on prog facebook gruops, Yes facebook groups and on their fan site and there seems to be hardly anyone in any of them under 45. So maybe only the hardcore fans are older. I'm not sure. You are right that over all they aren't that known but in my opinion Yes seems to be far more under rated and under appreciated than they should be by younger fans(at least in the US). Just my opinion based on my observation. I think KC has some kind of street cred or hipster respect that Yes doesn't. If you look on the rate your music site which is probably mostly younger people ITCOTCK has 18,000 ratings where CTTE "only" has 12,000.

This was just north of the border, though the people I was talking to were actually American (from Colorado). But I definitely agree with you that, statistically speaking, Yes is something of an obscurity among us young'uns; even those of us into prog. Although pretty much every young prog fan I've met in real life has been into 70's prog, I've definitely also noticed the prog metal fixation from browsing other online music sites. I'm sure if you asked the average millennial what they knew about prog, the most common response would definitely be "what?", which would then be followed by "you mean like Pink Floyd?", which would then be followed by "Yeah, I love Dream Theater, Between The Buried and Me, [insert more prog metal bands here], Porcupine Tree, and Rush!", and then way down there on the outer tail of the bell curve you'd have those like myself who are actually into Yes, King Crimson, et al.

With that in mind, though, it seems to me that of the young people who frequent this forum, we do tend to be biased slightly more towards the jazz/avant/experimental side of things than the symphonic prog of yore, but there are still plenty of us who admire the classics. That said, I don't think that we make up a big enough fraction of forum-goers for this to have any significant sway on the outcome of polls like this one.


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when i was a kid a doller was worth ten dollers - now a doller couldnt even buy you fifty cents


Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: December 18 2017 at 03:14
Relayer 4.5*
LTIA 1.5*




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A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life.


Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: December 18 2017 at 04:01
Originally posted by Magnum Vaeltaja Magnum Vaeltaja wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Magnum Vaeltaja Magnum Vaeltaja wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Am I correct in assuming that King Crimson is much more popular among younger fans these days than Yes is? I'm not just saying that because of this poll. It's just a feeling I get in general. Yes are not seen as cool anymore it seems.

You'd be surprised, actually...

I wouldn't say that either band necessarily has any "mainstream" popularity among young people, but among the other young prog fans I know, they're both very well respected. And then there are some young people who love Yes but don't even necessarily know King Crimson (and vice versa, mind you). I was actually at a college party a few months ago and met two or three other students there who were super into 70's Yes (we debated for quite a bit at whether The Yes Album or Fragile was better and eventually hijacked the party playlist to put on Yours Is No Disgrace). Good times. 

So I wouldn't say that King Crimson is much more popular among young people than King Crimson is, but then again neither is especially popular in the first place.

Well, I don't know where you live but it doesn't seem to be that way in the US. I would love to be proven wrong but in the US at least it seems most younger people into prog are into prog metal and or other newer bands and not much into Yes(this site would be an exception of course). What is my basis for saying this? Well, I have spent time on prog facebook gruops, Yes facebook groups and on their fan site and there seems to be hardly anyone in any of them under 45. So maybe only the hardcore fans are older. I'm not sure. You are right that over all they aren't that known but in my opinion Yes seems to be far more under rated and under appreciated than they should be by younger fans(at least in the US). Just my opinion based on my observation. I think KC has some kind of street cred or hipster respect that Yes doesn't. If you look on the rate your music site which is probably mostly younger people ITCOTCK has 18,000 ratings where CTTE "only" has 12,000.

This was just north of the border, though the people I was talking to were actually American (from Colorado). But I definitely agree with you that, statistically speaking, Yes is something of an obscurity among us young'uns; even those of us into prog. Although pretty much every young prog fan I've met in real life has been into 70's prog, I've definitely also noticed the prog metal fixation from browsing other online music sites. I'm sure if you asked the average millennial what they knew about prog, the most common response would definitely be "what?", which would then be followed by "you mean like Pink Floyd?", which would then be followed by "Yeah, I love Dream Theater, Between The Buried and Me, [insert more prog metal bands here], Porcupine Tree, and Rush!", and then way down there on the outer tail of the bell curve you'd have those like myself who are actually into Yes, King Crimson, et al.

With that in mind, though, it seems to me that of the young people who frequent this forum, we do tend to be biased slightly more towards the jazz/avant/experimental side of things than the symphonic prog of yore, but there are still plenty of us who admire the classics. That said, I don't think that we make up a big enough fraction of forum-goers for this to have any significant sway on the outcome of polls like this one.
As far as I know there are hipsters in US (not prog listeners generally) who respect King Crimson, but not even think about listening Yes. I donīt think there is nothing to do with age, there are young and older. But who really cares does the young people listen King Crimson or Yes? The young listens what they listen. I believe also new Yes albums are oldfashioned to young when King Crimson has really modernized itīs sound. To me itīs totally ok, I prefer lot more new Yes albums than new King Crimson, although not totally hate new King Crimson. Itīs just so cold sounding to me, there is no warmth of "I talk to the wind", "Cadence & Cascade", "Exiles" etc. I am really glad Fripp has now been willing to perform their old stuff, their latest live albums are so much better than their latest studio-albums! I am a really big Yes-fan, but if there is competition between any classic Yes album and classic King Crimson (well maybe not Islands and Earthbound) King Crimson will win.


Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: December 18 2017 at 10:13
KC

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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.


Posted By: Meltdowner
Date Posted: December 18 2017 at 10:45
The one with Bruford.


Posted By: digdug
Date Posted: December 18 2017 at 12:41
I like both  quite a bit

but

Relayer


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Prog On!


Posted By: Mormegil
Date Posted: December 18 2017 at 12:46
Relayer

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Welcome to the middle of the film.


Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: December 18 2017 at 12:49
Originally posted by Meltdowner Meltdowner wrote:

The one with Bruford.

I had to think about that for a second since Bruford has played with both bands. Wink

Did you know that Bill Bruford also played on Chris Squire's "Fish out of Water" album?


Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: December 18 2017 at 13:01
Originally posted by Magnum Vaeltaja Magnum Vaeltaja wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Magnum Vaeltaja Magnum Vaeltaja wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Am I correct in assuming that King Crimson is much more popular among younger fans these days than Yes is? I'm not just saying that because of this poll. It's just a feeling I get in general. Yes are not seen as cool anymore it seems.

You'd be surprised, actually...

I wouldn't say that either band necessarily has any "mainstream" popularity among young people, but among the other young prog fans I know, they're both very well respected. And then there are some young people who love Yes but don't even necessarily know King Crimson (and vice versa, mind you). I was actually at a college party a few months ago and met two or three other students there who were super into 70's Yes (we debated for quite a bit at whether The Yes Album or Fragile was better and eventually hijacked the party playlist to put on Yours Is No Disgrace). Good times. 

So I wouldn't say that King Crimson is much more popular among young people than King Crimson is, but then again neither is especially popular in the first place.

Well, I don't know where you live but it doesn't seem to be that way in the US. I would love to be proven wrong but in the US at least it seems most younger people into prog are into prog metal and or other newer bands and not much into Yes(this site would be an exception of course). What is my basis for saying this? Well, I have spent time on prog facebook gruops, Yes facebook groups and on their fan site and there seems to be hardly anyone in any of them under 45. So maybe only the hardcore fans are older. I'm not sure. You are right that over all they aren't that known but in my opinion Yes seems to be far more under rated and under appreciated than they should be by younger fans(at least in the US). Just my opinion based on my observation. I think KC has some kind of street cred or hipster respect that Yes doesn't. If you look on the rate your music site which is probably mostly younger people ITCOTCK has 18,000 ratings where CTTE "only" has 12,000.

This was just north of the border, though the people I was talking to were actually American (from Colorado). But I definitely agree with you that, statistically speaking, Yes is something of an obscurity among us young'uns; even those of us into prog. Although pretty much every young prog fan I've met in real life has been into 70's prog, I've definitely also noticed the prog metal fixation from browsing other online music sites. I'm sure if you asked the average millennial what they knew about prog, the most common response would definitely be "what?", which would then be followed by "you mean like Pink Floyd?", which would then be followed by "Yeah, I love Dream Theater, Between The Buried and Me, [insert more prog metal bands here], Porcupine Tree, and Rush!", and then way down there on the outer tail of the bell curve you'd have those like myself who are actually into Yes, King Crimson, et al.

With that in mind, though, it seems to me that of the young people who frequent this forum, we do tend to be biased slightly more towards the jazz/avant/experimental side of things than the symphonic prog of yore, but there are still plenty of us who admire the classics. That said, I don't think that we make up a big enough fraction of forum-goers for this to have any significant sway on the outcome of polls like this one.

As much as it disappoints me, the truth is that Yes and Genesis are no longer the gateway bands for those getting into prog for the first time. Sure, for some maybe but not for the majority of the younger prog fans. It wasn't like this for a long time but Yes and most of the other classic seventies prog bands(with the exception of PF and maybe KC; Rush too but they weren't really part of the original prog wave in most respects)have been buried underneath all the prog metal and newer prog stuff(including post rock)that gets more recognition and attention these days. Ultimately, most people(especially younger folks)are social creatures and will gravitate towards what their friends like and what their friends think is hip and cool. If liking ELP and Yes and Genesis isn't cool or hip then they are out as far as prog goes. Most of the fans on this forum though go deeper and are a bit more open minded and hardcore so don't really make up the typical prog fans(same thing for some of the other prog sites and fb groups). Most of the general discussion boards though like reddit and all the gamer ones and general music forums that have prog mentioned or a special little prog section seem to get responses mostly from the young hipster prog fans who are in love with Riverside, Haken and Opeth but don't have any PG era Genesis or Yes albums or more obscure vintage albums. 


Posted By: Argo2112
Date Posted: December 18 2017 at 13:08
 I like Yes more than King Crimson But I like LTIA better than Relayer, not my favorite Yes album.


Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: December 18 2017 at 14:08
I love both of these but prefer Larks.

It is not that strange that youngins steer more towards the jaggedy hard hitting riffs of monsieur Fripp as KC basically laid down the blueprint to so many of the "new" and popular music genres of today. Put on Red and people hear the seeds to avant metal, post-rock and so many micro genres in between. Larks manages to do the same although it is somewhat more impenetrable to the uninitiated. Conversely put on a Yes album and most folks my age and younger (I know that is) envision this elve fronted magicians band....which granted could've been cool back at the turn of the millenium with the LOTR flicks had it been done tastefully, but nowadays I think it's become more niche and a bit nerdy.
None of this should matter of course but it does. Young people are impressionable and naive. That is why they're so beautiful and irritating at the same time.

-------------
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams


Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: December 18 2017 at 15:55
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

As much as it disappoints me, the truth is that Yes and Genesis are no longer the gateway bands for those getting into prog for the first time. Sure, for some maybe but not for the majority of the younger prog fans. It wasn't like this for a long time but Yes and most of the other classic seventies prog bands(with the exception of PF and maybe KC; Rush too but they weren't really part of the original prog wave in most respects)have been buried underneath all the prog metal and newer prog stuff(including post rock)that gets more recognition and attention these days. Ultimately, most people(especially younger folks)are social creatures and will gravitate towards what their friends like and what their friends think is hip and cool. If liking ELP and Yes and Genesis isn't cool or hip then they are out as far as prog goes. Most of the fans on this forum though go deeper and are a bit more open minded and hardcore so don't really make up the typical prog fans(same thing for some of the other prog sites and fb groups). Most of the general discussion boards though like reddit and all the gamer ones and general music forums that have prog mentioned or a special little prog section seem to get responses mostly from the young hipster prog fans who are in love with Riverside, Haken and Opeth but don't have any PG era Genesis or Yes albums or more obscure vintage albums.

I've just read something that... I can't even. Just look away.. just look away!! Cry




Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: December 18 2017 at 21:10
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Magnum Vaeltaja Magnum Vaeltaja wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Magnum Vaeltaja Magnum Vaeltaja wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Am I correct in assuming that King Crimson is much more popular among younger fans these days than Yes is? I'm not just saying that because of this poll. It's just a feeling I get in general. Yes are not seen as cool anymore it seems.


You'd be surprised, actually...

I wouldn't say that either band necessarily has any "mainstream" popularity among young people, but among the other young prog fans I know, they're both very well respected. And then there are some young people who love Yes but don't even necessarily know King Crimson (and vice versa, mind you). I was actually at a college party a few months ago and met two or three other students there who were super into 70's Yes (we debated for quite a bit at whether The Yes Album or Fragile was better and eventually hijacked the party playlist to put on Yours Is No Disgrace). Good times. 

So I wouldn't say that King Crimson is much more popular among young people than King Crimson is, but then again neither is especially popular in the first place.


Well, I don't know where you live but it doesn't seem to be that way in the US. I would love to be proven wrong but in the US at least it seems most younger people into prog are into prog metal and or other newer bands and not much into Yes(this site would be an exception of course). What is my basis for saying this? Well, I have spent time on prog facebook gruops, Yes facebook groups and on their fan site and there seems to be hardly anyone in any of them under 45. So maybe only the hardcore fans are older. I'm not sure. You are right that over all they aren't that known but in my opinion Yes seems to be far more under rated and under appreciated than they should be by younger fans(at least in the US). Just my opinion based on my observation. I think KC has some kind of street cred or hipster respect that Yes doesn't. If you look on the rate your music site which is probably mostly younger people ITCOTCK has 18,000 ratings where CTTE "only" has 12,000.



This was just north of the border, though the people I was talking to were actually American (from Colorado). But I definitely agree with you that, statistically speaking, Yes is something of an obscurity among us young'uns; even those of us into prog. Although pretty much every young prog fan I've met in real life has been into 70's prog, I've definitely also noticed the prog metal fixation from browsing other online music sites. I'm sure if you asked the average millennial what they knew about prog, the most common response would definitely be "what?", which would then be followed by "you mean like Pink Floyd?", which would then be followed by "Yeah, I love Dream Theater, Between The Buried and Me, [insert more prog metal bands here], Porcupine Tree, and Rush!", and then way down there on the outer tail of the bell curve you'd have those like myself who are actually into Yes, King Crimson, et al.

With that in mind, though, it seems to me that of the young people who frequent this forum, we do tend to be biased slightly more towards the jazz/avant/experimental side of things than the symphonic prog of yore, but there are still plenty of us who admire the classics. That said, I don't think that we make up a big enough fraction of forum-goers for this to have any significant sway on the outcome of polls like this one.


As much as it disappoints me, the truth is that Yes and Genesis are no longer the gateway bands for those getting into prog for the first time. Sure, for some maybe but not for the majority of the younger prog fans. It wasn't like this for a long time but Yes and most of the other classic seventies prog bands(with the exception of PF and maybe KC; Rush too but they weren't really part of the original prog wave in most respects)have been buried underneath all the prog metal and newer prog stuff(including post rock)that gets more recognition and attention these days. Ultimately, most people(especially younger folks)are social creatures and will gravitate towards what their friends like and what their friends think is hip and cool. If liking ELP and Yes and Genesis isn't cool or hip then they are out as far as prog goes. Most of the fans on this forum though go deeper and are a bit more open minded and hardcore so don't really make up the typical prog fans(same thing for some of the other prog sites and fb groups). Most of the general discussion boards though like reddit and all the gamer ones and general music forums that have prog mentioned or a special little prog section seem to get responses mostly from the young hipster prog fans who are in love with Riverside, Haken and Opeth but don't have any PG era Genesis or Yes albums or more obscure vintage albums. 


I'm not sure about Yes and Genesis are really so underapreciated yet, but mostly my connection to prog is through this site, and so this are the opinions I know about prog. However, if it's true that newer prog fans get to know the genre because of newer bands instead of the classic, even though I may not really like it, and still think those classics have that special something that has been lost (mostly) by newer bands, it's actually better for the genre to prosper (to whatever degree it does) because of the newer bands than because of the old ones... that means the genre is alive and healthy, and is not just a nostalgia thing that will die once the original fans and bands are gone and there's no one to spread the word anymore.


Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: December 18 2017 at 22:45
I think itīs not just prog music. I think there has been tendency going on that only some of the really great artists of sixties and seventies are truly great and on the other hand many artists of 2000 that doing something that has done before are much greater than some old ones. For example I have met people who seriously claims that Tommy is awful (also Whoīs next, Quadrophenia). It seems to me people are thinking new music is automatically something you have to listen (that you belong to the group of hip people) and itīs not important do you know much about old music. Sure prog music commonly is not hip and cool today. But of course I have met also some young music listeners who are really excited about Hendrix, Beatles etc.


Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: December 18 2017 at 22:57
Yeah the Beatles seem to be oddly popular among young people I've noticed. But that's probably not going to change any time soon, or ever lol. 


Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: December 19 2017 at 02:56
To me it seems Beatles, Stones (not after Tattoo You Stones) The Who before Tommy, Kinks, Hendrix, King Crimson, Velvet Underground, Stooges, Bowie, Lou Reed, Brian Eno are the ones that are still respected at least in those hipster circles. Not much anything else from the 60-70ies. Of course itīs great people listen even those.


Posted By: thwok
Date Posted: December 19 2017 at 04:43
I'm not really sure on what basis we're comparing these two particular albums, other than simple personal preference. I just prefer LARKS' TONGUES. I've always found RELAYER, like TOPOGRAPHIC OCEANS, a little too labor intensive.

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I am the funkiest man on the planet!


Posted By: Meltdowner
Date Posted: December 19 2017 at 06:36
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

I had to think about that for a second since Bruford has played with both bands. Wink

Did you know that Bill Bruford also played on Chris Squire's "Fish out of Water" album?
Bruford and Squire's rhythmic duo is what I like the most about Yes so I'm not very enthusiastic about anything after CTTE. I even prefer TAAW to Relayer Tongue

Yeah, a glaring omission in my collection Embarrassed

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

As much as it disappoints me, the truth is that Yes and Genesis are no longer the gateway bands for those getting into prog for the first time. Sure, for some maybe but not for the majority of the younger prog fans. It wasn't like this for a long time but Yes and most of the other classic seventies prog bands(with the exception of PF and maybe KC; Rush too but they weren't really part of the original prog wave in most respects)have been buried underneath all the prog metal and newer prog stuff(including post rock)that gets more recognition and attention these days. Ultimately, most people(especially younger folks)are social creatures and will gravitate towards what their friends like and what their friends think is hip and cool. If liking ELP and Yes and Genesis isn't cool or hip then they are out as far as prog goes. Most of the fans on this forum though go deeper and are a bit more open minded and hardcore so don't really make up the typical prog fans(same thing for some of the other prog sites and fb groups). Most of the general discussion boards though like reddit and all the gamer ones and general music forums that have prog mentioned or a special little prog section seem to get responses mostly from the young hipster prog fans who are in love with Riverside, Haken and Opeth but don't have any PG era Genesis or Yes albums or more obscure vintage albums. 
Speaking as someone who got into Prog in this decade (although I don't like Metal much), what kept me from getting into bands like PF, Genesis or Yes was listening to their 80's hits on the radio. That's the uncool stuff! It took some incentive to explore more from them, respectively: seeing The Australian Pink Floyd, listening to Firth of Fifth on a web radio, seeing Roger Dean's artwork (as part of Fly From Here's promotion) and wondering how was the music behind it Wink I never even heard of King Crimson until ITCOTCK was suggested by Youtube Tongue


Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: December 19 2017 at 07:11
Originally posted by Meltdowner Meltdowner wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

I had to think about that for a second since Bruford has played with both bands. Wink

Did you know that Bill Bruford also played on Chris Squire's "Fish out of Water" album?
Bruford and Squire's rhythmic duo is what I like the most about Yes so I'm not very enthusiastic about anything after CTTE. I even prefer TAAW to Relayer Tongue

Yeah, a glaring omission in my collection Embarrassed

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

As much as it disappoints me, the truth is that Yes and Genesis are no longer the gateway bands for those getting into prog for the first time. Sure, for some maybe but not for the majority of the younger prog fans. It wasn't like this for a long time but Yes and most of the other classic seventies prog bands(with the exception of PF and maybe KC; Rush too but they weren't really part of the original prog wave in most respects)have been buried underneath all the prog metal and newer prog stuff(including post rock)that gets more recognition and attention these days. Ultimately, most people(especially younger folks)are social creatures and will gravitate towards what their friends like and what their friends think is hip and cool. If liking ELP and Yes and Genesis isn't cool or hip then they are out as far as prog goes. Most of the fans on this forum though go deeper and are a bit more open minded and hardcore so don't really make up the typical prog fans(same thing for some of the other prog sites and fb groups). Most of the general discussion boards though like reddit and all the gamer ones and general music forums that have prog mentioned or a special little prog section seem to get responses mostly from the young hipster prog fans who are in love with Riverside, Haken and Opeth but don't have any PG era Genesis or Yes albums or more obscure vintage albums. 
Speaking as someone who got into Prog in this decade (although I don't like Metal much), what kept me from getting into bands like PF, Genesis or Yes was listening to their 80's hits on the radio. That's the uncool stuff! It took some incentive to explore more from them, respectively: seeing The Australian Pink Floyd, listening to Firth of Fifth on a web radio, seeing Roger Dean's artwork (as part of Fly From Here's promotion) and wondering how was the music behind it Wink I never even heard of King Crimson until ITCOTCK was suggested by Youtube Tongue

So if you don't mind me asking how old are you and how did you first discover prog and get into it(what bands etc)?


Posted By: AEProgman
Date Posted: December 19 2017 at 07:13
Tongues... 
Like Relayer, but not my favorite by them.


-------------


Posted By: Meltdowner
Date Posted: December 19 2017 at 07:28
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

So if you don't mind me asking how old are you and how did you first discover prog and get into it(what bands etc)?
It's on my profile, I'm 23. I already liked the proggier stuff from Led Zeppelin and The Beatles but the first real Prog bands (according to PA) I got into were Pink Floyd, Supertramp and Yes in 2011. I only discovered the term Prog the next year while searching about José Cid's "10.000 Anos Depois..." and found out this site, although I didn't fully realize the gold mine I found until I signed up in 2013 Tongue


Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: December 19 2017 at 10:14
Originally posted by Meltdowner Meltdowner wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

So if you don't mind me asking how old are you and how did you first discover prog and get into it(what bands etc)?
It's on my profile, I'm 23. I already liked the proggier stuff from Led Zeppelin and The Beatles but the first real Prog bands (according to PA) I got into were Pink Floyd, Supertramp and Yes in 2011. I only discovered the term Prog the next year while searching about José Cid's "10.000 Anos Depois..." and found out this site, although I didn't fully realize the gold mine I found until I signed up in 2013 Tongue

Well, I don't think the age on someone's profile is automatically updated(although I could be wrong)so I could assume that you are around 27 now since you joined in 2013. 


Posted By: Meltdowner
Date Posted: December 19 2017 at 10:34
^ It works correctly, it's calculated from the date of birth.


Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: December 19 2017 at 12:12
I'll take both.

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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: December 19 2017 at 15:00
Originally posted by Meltdowner Meltdowner wrote:

^ It works correctly, it's calculated from the date of birth.

Well then it must automatically update every time you have a birthday(something I wasn't aware of).


Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: December 19 2017 at 17:14
^Actually, FYI, down at the bottom of the PA home page the day's birthdays are presented.

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A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now)


Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: December 19 2017 at 17:50
Holy thread-jack, Batman!   
Stick with the tour, dudes.

-------------
"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.


Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: January 01 2018 at 17:51
Relayer.

-------------

Lying on the hill; crawling over the windowsill into your living room...


Posted By: dr prog
Date Posted: January 01 2018 at 18:18
Probably Larks. Not crazy about either though.

-------------
All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.


Posted By: zwordser
Date Posted: January 18 2018 at 06:26
Originally posted by Larkstongue41 Larkstongue41 wrote:

Larks. Still the most musically eye-opening experience I've ever hfad.


Really? Me too! (Except it was Relayer)

-------------
Z


Posted By: thief
Date Posted: January 18 2018 at 13:08
Both are definite masterpieces of prog. I'd be hard pressed to list 10 bands with ANY album approaching lofty heights of Relayer or Larks' Tongues in Aspic. Today I'll vote for Larks', but it's not a definite answer.
Very close battle imho, good job OP.



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