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Caravan vs Saga

Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Polls
Forum Description: Create polls on topics related to progressive music
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=112680
Printed Date: April 26 2024 at 01:59
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Topic: Caravan vs Saga
Posted By: YESESIS
Subject: Caravan vs Saga
Date Posted: January 16 2018 at 18:06
This time I'm not trying to get into anything, I'm already FULLY into both of these bands. Definitely two of my favorite prog bands and neither gets talked about much on here at all. Caravan does every once in a while, but Saga(despite the fact that there was an appreciation thread for them not long ago) pretty much never gets mentioned. 

Think I know how this will go but thought it would be fun anyway. 



Replies:
Posted By: Larkstongue41
Date Posted: January 16 2018 at 18:26
I do like Saga but we're talking Caravan here... I fear this poll will be ruthless.

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"Larks' tongues. Wrens' livers. Chaffinch brains. Jaguars' earlobes. Wolf nipple chips. Get 'em while they're hot. They're lovely. Dromedary pretzels, only half a denar."


Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: January 16 2018 at 18:41
Originally posted by Larkstongue41 Larkstongue41 wrote:

I do like Saga but we're talking Caravan here... I fear this poll will be ruthless.

Yeah Caravan's great and Saga is ridiculously underrated so.. I'm pretty much expecting it as well. 


Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: January 16 2018 at 20:53
Sagavan

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Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: January 16 2018 at 20:57
Originally posted by Barbu Barbu wrote:

Sagavan

Oh that's great. I've absolutely gotta change my username to that! 


Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: January 16 2018 at 22:19
Caravan miles ahead.


Posted By: Upbeat Tango Monday
Date Posted: January 17 2018 at 02:15
Caravan by far

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Two random guys agreed to shake hands. Just Because. They felt like it, you know. It was an agreement of sorts...a random agreement.


Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: January 17 2018 at 03:06
Caravan easily. I don't like Saga.

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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams


Posted By: ColonelClaypool
Date Posted: January 17 2018 at 03:16
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Caravan easily. I don't like Saga.

Ditto. Saga is too 80s synthpoppy for my taste.


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With magic, you can turn a frog into a prince.
With science, you can turn a frog into a Ph.D. and you still have the frog you started with.


Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: January 17 2018 at 03:20
Well I happen to dig quite a number of synthpop artists, but Saga leaves me completely cold.

Synthpop can be brilliant. Gary Numan and Cocteau Twins instantly pops to mind.

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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams


Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: January 17 2018 at 03:33
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Well I happen to dig quite a number of synthpop artists, but Saga leaves me completely cold.

Synthpop can be brilliant. Gary Numan and Cocteau Twins instantly pops to mind.


Agree re; Gary Numan, Cocteau Twins etc..Excellent stuff, and far better than Saga from what I can remember. Saga were all mullet haircuts, and one foot on the monitor from what I can remember. A poor mans 80's Rush. Am I remembering correctly?

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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!


Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: January 17 2018 at 03:35
Caravan.

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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021


Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: January 17 2018 at 03:52
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Well I happen to dig quite a number of synthpop artists, but Saga leaves me completely cold.

Synthpop can be brilliant. Gary Numan and Cocteau Twins instantly pops to mind.


Agree re; Gary Numan, Cocteau Twins etc..Excellent stuff, and far better than Saga from what I can remember. Saga were all mullet haircuts, and one foot on the monitor from what I can remember. A poor mans 80's Rush. Am I remembering correctly?

Ahh one foot on the monitor. Good times. My friend actually still does this
Not sure about Rush but I definitely hear a strong Styx vibe with Saga.

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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams


Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: January 17 2018 at 04:13
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Well I happen to dig quite a number of synthpop artists, but Saga leaves me completely cold.

Synthpop can be brilliant. Gary Numan and Cocteau Twins instantly pops to mind.


Agree re; Gary Numan, Cocteau Twins etc..Excellent stuff, and far better than Saga from what I can remember. Saga were all mullet haircuts, and one foot on the monitor from what I can remember. A poor mans 80's Rush. Am I remembering correctly?

Ahh one foot on the monitor. Good times. My friend actually still does this
Not sure about Rush but I definitely hear a strong Styx vibe with Saga.


Just been listening to them on YT. Yes, you're right. Definitely a Styx thing going on. Pretty good musicians actually. They look like a spoof 80's rock band though...

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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!


Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: January 17 2018 at 04:22
Caravan, with the annotation that Saga's Worlds Apart  never fails me.

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Posted By: progmatic
Date Posted: January 17 2018 at 05:24
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Caravan easily. I don't like Saga.

Yep. Saga is a cheesy pop band with a few progressive tendencies, like Styx.


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PROGMATIC


Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: January 17 2018 at 05:55
Caravan for sure. I never could get into Saga.


Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: January 17 2018 at 06:48
In my book Saga can hold Caravan to an honorable draw. There's some Caravan that I really like a lot, but Caravan have done a whole lot of things I'm very indifferent about; too much actually to win this one. I could say the same about Saga but they're the underdog so I'd rather positively say they did enough for me.


Posted By: miamiscot
Date Posted: January 17 2018 at 07:52
Never got much mileage out of Saga. Just not for me...

Caravan by a mile.


Posted By: gr8dane
Date Posted: January 17 2018 at 07:58
Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

In my book Saga can hold Caravan to an honorable draw. There's some Caravan that I really like a lot, but Caravan have done a whole lot of things I'm very indifferent about; too much actually to win this one. I could say the same about Saga but they're the underdog so I'd rather positively say they did enough for me.
Well said.Count me in here.


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Shake & bake.


Posted By: Wanorak
Date Posted: January 17 2018 at 08:22
Saga.

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A GREAT YEAR FOR PROG!!!


Posted By: digdug
Date Posted: January 17 2018 at 08:29
I like some Saga

but Caravan gets my vote by quite a margin


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Prog On!


Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: January 17 2018 at 08:33
I quite like some Saga, so glad to see that that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdf1eLW87qg" rel="nofollow - "you're not alone" in appreciation.

Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Well I happen to dig quite a number of synthpop artists, but Saga leaves me completely cold.

Synthpop can be brilliant. Gary Numan and Cocteau Twins instantly pops to mind.


Agree re; Gary Numan, Cocteau Twins etc..Excellent stuff, and far better than Saga from what I can remember. Saga were all mullet haircuts, and one foot on the monitor from what I can remember. A poor mans 80's Rush. Am I remembering correctly?


Count me in on enjoying synthpop -- love synthpop Kraftwerk and Gary Numan/ Tubeway Army (Replicas was one of my first music loves) especially.

Anyway, Caravan very easily for me. I don't normally count it as one of my favourites in Canterbury Scene, although In the Land of Grey and Pink was the first Canterbury Scene album I bought, but it does have some very good albums. And I shan't forget how much "Nine Feet Underground" blew me away when I first heard it.

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Just a fanboy passin' through.


Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: January 17 2018 at 15:08
Another vote for Saga.

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https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay


Posted By: Cosmiclawnmower
Date Posted: January 17 2018 at 15:50
Caravan are VERY much my cup of tea! Saga is not.


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Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: January 17 2018 at 16:34
I like Saga, but Caravan are just better.

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A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life.


Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: January 17 2018 at 17:26
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

I quite like some Saga, so glad to see that that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdf1eLW87qg" rel="nofollow - "you're not alone" in appreciation.

Haha yep. I like that album btw, possibly my second favorite by them after the MONSTER Silent Knight. Good to see you back here man. I've been getting into Focus a bit lately. I like their third album a lot. 


Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: January 17 2018 at 17:29
Well I see a couple people here willing to admit they prefer Saga. And for those questioning whether or not they're "fully prog" I found this.. 

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=25826&PN=3" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=25826&PN=3


Posted By: Mormegil
Date Posted: January 17 2018 at 18:05
Going with Caravan . . .


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Welcome to the middle of the film.


Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: January 17 2018 at 20:12
Caravan for sure.....one of my favorite groups.

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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin


Posted By: b_olariu
Date Posted: January 18 2018 at 04:36
Saga for me all the way


Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: January 18 2018 at 04:47
Damn this is almost painful to watch...and I don't even like Saga.
Then again I think we all have a similar poll in us where our fave underdog will lose big time.
I imagine me doing one with Amon Düül ll vs Yes ending up similarly ie my fave gets completely annihilated.

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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams


Posted By: hellogoodbye
Date Posted: January 18 2018 at 06:44
I'll jump into the Caravan


Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: January 18 2018 at 12:02
Originally posted by YESESIS YESESIS wrote:

Well I see a couple people here willing to admit they prefer Saga.

Your Honor...we will take that as an admission of guilt.


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https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay


Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: January 18 2018 at 12:39
Don't take any apparent analness here too seriously, I just like to blow some hot air now and then ramble-bottom style....

Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Damn this is almost painful to watch...and I don't even like Saga.
Then again I think we all have a similar poll in us where our fave underdog will lose big time.
I imagine me doing one with Amon Düül ll vs Yes ending up similarly ie my fave gets completely annihilated.


I have a different perspective. With 22 percent of the votes as of now, Saga is doing well against the likes of a band that has been very popular in PA. Furthermore, I tend to pay more attention to the comments, and only two pages in and lots of appreciation has been thrown towards Saga. Frankly, Saga is doing better than I would have thought. In this case, the OP, John, has said that these are two of his favourite bands, so if I were in his position I wouldn't find it painful at all -- a band he loves is getting significantly more votes than another band he loves.

I might be tempted to do, say, Can vs. Igor Wakhevitch. While I'm confident than Can would do significantly better, I would not be saddened at all since I love both and might not vote (these days I would choose Can myself since there's more I love, and my appreciation for Can has deepened over time).

If I were to choose one I am not a big fan of and put it up against one I really liked, and the one I really liked got a really unexpected drubbing, well, then I would be disappointed. For instance, were I to do a 1987 poll, and I put Saga's Wildest Dreams up against Art Zoyd's Berlin and Berlin did as poorly in my poll as Saga is in this one, well, I might find that a little painful or at least bemusing.

Originally posted by YESESIS YESESIS wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

I quite like some Saga, so glad to see that that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdf1eLW87qg" rel="nofollow - "you're not alone" in appreciation.

Haha yep. I like that album btw, possibly my second favorite by them after the MONSTER Silent Knight. Good to see you back here man. I've been getting into Focus a bit lately. I like their third album a lot. 


Thanks. The first four Saga albums are good from a Prog perspective, as I recall. Then they go less Prog in the mid 80s and then rebound (not that I think being Prog is a sign of quality, but it is "a quality" or qualities). I haven't heard the later than that music. Other than the radio hits which would get played here, I wasn't that familiar with Saga until I joined. I once wrote a very dismissive post about the band, and regretted it (embarrassed about being dismissive while knowing that I hadn't really explored the music deeply enough to have a strong, informed opinion). So I explored more deeply and I'm glad that I did (though truth be told I had quite enjoyed the radio hits and was basing it something else).

I'm glad that you appreciate Focus' third, that's the one I have tended to vote for in polls. It became my favourite. I'm not trying to backtrack, but when I was first writing my post that is the one I was thinking about recommending and I second and third guessed myself because I thought it might be less accessible. I usually either overthink or underthink things, one day I like to think that I'll find that balance and just say what I think in a thoughtful manner. Probably won't ever happen, lol.

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Just a fanboy passin' through.


Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: January 18 2018 at 13:53
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

I have a different perspective. With 22 percent of the votes as of now, Saga is doing well against the likes of a band that has been very popular in PA. Furthermore, I tend to pay more attention to the comments, and only two pages in and lots of appreciation has been thrown towards Saga. Frankly, Saga is doing better than I would have thought.

Copy that.


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https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay


Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: January 18 2018 at 15:47
Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by YESESIS YESESIS wrote:

Well I see a couple people here willing to admit they prefer Saga.

Your Honor...we will take that as an admission of guilt.

lolol. No, I honestly like both bands about equally - that is to say.. A LOT. 

Very glad to see that you were one of the ones who stuck up for them here though. :) 


Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: January 18 2018 at 15:56
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Thanks. The first four Saga albums are good from a Prog perspective, as I recall. Then they go less Prog in the mid 80s and then rebound (not that I think being Prog is a sign of quality, but it is "a quality" or qualities). I haven't heard the later than that music. Other than the radio hits which would get played here, I wasn't that familiar with Saga until I joined. I once wrote a very dismissive post about the band, and regretted it (embarrassed about being dismissive while knowing that I hadn't really explored the music deeply enough to have a strong, informed opinion). So I explored more deeply and I'm glad that I did (though truth be told I had quite enjoyed the radio hits and was basing it something else).

I'm glad that you appreciate Focus' third, that's the one I have tended to vote for in polls. It became my favourite. I'm not trying to backtrack, but when I was first writing my post that is the one I was thinking about recommending and I second and third guessed myself because I thought it might be less accessible. I usually either overthink or underthink things, one day I like to think that I'll find that balance and just say what I think in a thoughtful manner. Probably won't ever happen, lol.

No, I found it to be just the opposite. The first one I listened to Moving Waves, had like a long stretch where it was a lot of mostly flute(I think). And then the second one Hamburger Concerto had like a lot of almost 'classical' sounding music.. my tastes just aren't as refined as yours are I'm afraid. I mean certainly neither of those albums were BAD by any stretch, just not consistently great(for me). But that third one was quite good pretty much all the way through. I very much enjoyed it - and was even surprised how good it was. 




Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: January 18 2018 at 15:59
I'll throw my hat in with Saga.  I have a thing for accessible prog bands from Canada.  Caravan have a British sense of humour that doesn't necessarily resonate with me..although I suppose that you can't go wrong with either a golf girl or a girl that grows plump in the night. 


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Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: January 18 2018 at 16:05
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

I'll throw my hat in with Saga.  I have a thing for accessible prog bands from Canada.  Caravan have a British sense of humour that doesn't necessarily resonate with me..although I suppose that you can't go wrong with either a golf girl or a girl that grows plump in the night. 

Haha both fantastic albums by them(the album that Golf Girl is on and For Girls.. that is). Anyway, knew we could count on you friend. 


Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: January 18 2018 at 22:30
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Damn this is almost painful to watch...and I don't even like Saga.
Then again I think we all have a similar poll in us where our fave underdog will lose big time.
I imagine me doing one with Amon Düül ll vs Yes ending up similarly ie my fave gets completely annihilated.
I don´t feel pain at all, just because Saga doesn´t mean nothing to me. It would be same, if there was Nirvana vs Arcade Fire (I naturally like to believe Nirvana would murder Arcade Fire). But if you will do your poll, I think I will vote Amon Düül II although I really think Yes is greater. Just because I really love Amon Düül II too.


Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: January 19 2018 at 06:07
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

I have a different perspective. With 22 percent of the votes as of now, Saga is doing well against the likes of a band that has been very popular in PA. Furthermore, I tend to pay more attention to the comments, and only two pages in and lots of appreciation has been thrown towards Saga. Frankly, Saga is doing better than I would have thought.
 
Some time ago a prolific poll opener put up a number of polls pitching well established and loved bands against total underdogs, and the well established bands had a very hard time - because the underdogs were picked in such a way that they represented a very different style, and most people who'd clearly prefer the usual favourite wouldn't even know the underdog and therefore couldn't vote, whereas those who knew the underdog were often the kind of people who could be very critical about that particular big cheese (S. Wilson and Rush were among those who struggled, Dream Theater lost by quite some distance if I remember correctly; no doubt one can choose an underdog to beat Caravan in the same way).
Saga's problem is rather that they're too well known, it seems. Wink


Posted By: Kingsnake
Date Posted: January 19 2018 at 06:19
Nothing wrong with Caravan, they have at least 3 or 4 good records.

I even like The Album and Back to Front (great poprock albums!)

But Saga released at least 10 or 15 great albums.

The mixed rock, prog, fusion and pop into something new. The keyboard-guitar battles are superb, and I honestly haven't heard a band do that at that level.

True, they have their standard pop-songs (wich are great though) but songs like Pitchman, Corkentellis, Careful Where You Step, Framed, Humble Stance, Ice Nice, You're Not Alone, etc. with they all the chord-changes, tempo-changes, solos etc. are definately prog.

And if Generation 13 isn't prog, than what is?

And Yes, Genesis, King Crimson and Pink Floyd had charting singles/hitsongs with pop-structured songs.
That Saga never created a 20-minute epic, doesn't make them non-progressive.

Name a band that blends synthpop, hardrocking guitarsolos (almost fusion), intricate synthsolos (unrivalled), disco-infused drums. Maybe It Bites did this, but Saga was first.

But on the other only 41 people in the entire world voted for this poll. Hardly something for Saga to even care about, hahahaha


Posted By: stewe
Date Posted: January 19 2018 at 09:27
I like Caravan, but Saga - for sheer amount of great music. Just for all prog-heads who know only their late 70s - early 80s (which I like too), give a try to their 2006 "Trust" album. I think you'll be mostly surprised how this band evolved, all members getting better with age. Especially the guitarist.


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http://www.last.fm/user/trevorrabin/?chartstyle=basic10" rel="nofollow">

<a href="http://steveer.ic.cz" rel="nofollow"


Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: January 19 2018 at 11:32
Well.....I'm surprised Saga got 11 votes....against one of the best Canterbury bands of all time.
I always thought of Saga as Rush lite from their later keyboard/electronic period. Adequate but nothing special.


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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin


Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: January 19 2018 at 17:24
Great to see the love for Saga here on this board. I don't think they have any absolute masterpiece epic like Nine Feet Underground, but as mentioned they have a whole lot of really enjoyable stuff. I think at their VERY best Caravan is a little better, but there's more to love with Saga. Ultimately I like both bands a ton, so truly can't pick one over the other.


Posted By: Progmind
Date Posted: January 27 2018 at 12:04
Caravan by miles!!!

Cant stand Saga


Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: January 27 2018 at 12:42
Never cared for Caravan, but I cared for Saga even less. So there you have it.

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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...


Posted By: Stool Man
Date Posted: January 28 2018 at 04:26
Caravan are among my favourite bands. Never heard Saga, but if they're almost as good as Rush then I don't think they'd get my vote if they paid me.

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rotten hound of the burnie crew


Posted By: Kingsnake
Date Posted: January 28 2018 at 04:55
Originally posted by Stool Man Stool Man wrote:

Caravan are among my favourite bands. Never heard Saga, but if they're almost as good as Rush then I don't think they'd get my vote if they paid me.

To me, Saga sounds nothing like Rush.

Never understood why people compare them to Rush. Because they are from Canada?
Triumph is also always compared to Rush. Silly people.

Saga is kind of unique. They are too pop for prog and too prog for pop.
They are too hardrock for synthpop/new wave and too synth for hardrock.

Only (and only) if you like a blend of hardrock, synthpop and songbased popmusic with extended soloiing on synths and guitars than you'd like Saga, otherwise stay clear or you wind up bitter and hatefull like so many LOL


Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: January 29 2018 at 17:34
^I agree. Rush, Saga and Triumph could not sound less alike.

Except Rush and Triumph will continue to draw comparison because they're both trios, lead singers with falsettos, increased use of synthesizers in the '80s. But stylistically, totally different. Triumph was rock, but not prog. 

I like all three, and you can add another Canadian hard rock trio, Santers, to the mix. Lead singer/guitarist Rick Santers was brought in to augment Triumph when they toured for The Sport of Kings.


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https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay


Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: January 29 2018 at 19:24
I love Saga, Rush, and Triumph. 


Posted By: Kingsnake
Date Posted: January 30 2018 at 10:44
hahahaha.

There's always something to be said about bands to bring them down.

Barclay James Harvest were named Poor Man's Moody Blues. Well, John Lees showed them, and wrote a song with exactly that title, and the chords of Nights in White Satin. Turned out to be a huge fan-favorite and live-staple!

That being said, I can't really compare Saga to any other band. Except that in the beginning they borrowed some of Genesis and Gentle Giant, but Saga turned to their own style really quick, wich is (as said) a mixture of discorhythms, synthriffs and hardrock.

Bands like It Bites and Enchant have borrowed from Saga. But that's how music works.
I guess Saga could have been influenced by Rush, but Rush was influenced by Led Zeppelin, wich is bluesrock and Saga veered more towards jazzrock in the beginning.

When producers like Keith Olsen and Rupert Hine had their hands on Saga, they got streamlined, and the sound became increasingly more pop with still the hardrock-guitar.

Apart from that Ian and Jim Crichton both played the Synthaxe, wich is really something. Haven't seen the synthaxe in any other band (except for Holdsworth of course)


Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: February 01 2018 at 15:22
No contest, Caravan. 

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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.



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