Bad Prog...
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Recommendations/Featured albums
Forum Description: Make or seek recommendations and discuss specific prog albums
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=114169
Printed Date: April 23 2024 at 22:12
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Bad Prog...
Posted By: cstack3
Subject: Bad Prog...
Date Posted: March 11 2018 at 20:11
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OK, we've had "Sad Prog," how about "Bad Prog?" Prog that is so bad, you can't keep quiet about it any longer! I'm happy to nominate Big Elf as the first entry in "Bad Prog." I saw them as an opening act for the Dream Theater's "Progressive Nation" tour, and my ears still hurt. There something sacrilegious about playing TWO Mellotrons at once!! Here, enjoy..... ------------- I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!! |
Replies:
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: March 11 2018 at 21:01
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Rare Bird are pretty bland. I just can't get into them. Lazy and boring!!! -------------  https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 11 2018 at 21:10
too funny... yeah they were pretty bad.. thanks for bringing back memories of that. It took Big Elf to make DT semi enjoyable for Raff and me.. though it still didn't keep us from walking out mid set with DT. We mainly went to see Zappa plays Zappa which kept us from walking out on Big Elf haha. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
cstack3 wrote:Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 11 2018 at 21:14
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and of course.. no bad prog thread would be competely without mentioning the most famous of ALL bad prog bands. the infamous Torman Maxt ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: March 11 2018 at 22:44
LOL, thanks!! This review on PA was priceless!! http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=16857" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=1187" rel="nofollow - Torman Maxt Progressive Metal Review by http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=20315" rel="nofollow - AtomicCrimsonRush http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=20315" rel="nofollow">   Torman Maxt's The Problem of Pain: Part 1? Universally panned and loathed in the prog community so naturally I had to taste and see. Immediately I noted the guitars don't have enough power to blow the fluff off a peanut. The vocals sound processed and high pitched. The singing is dreadful especially when they are not processed such as on 'Job's Song.' The riffs are so forgettable though at times they have promise only to be ruined by terrible, terrible production. ========================= ...and so forth! Great review, AtomicCrimsonRush!  Mind you, I've written some sulfurous prog over the years....such as the epic "Romanian Fluids," a depressing little dirge about my visit to Ceaucescu's Romania in 1979!!  I have tapes of some of this stuff but I have elected to spare humanity of my badness.... OK, I've opened up to my own prog sludge, more bad prog please!! I don't consider bad LPs to qualify, otherwise I'd suggest "Big Generator" or "Calling All Stations."
------------- I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!! |
Posted By: Magnum Vaeltaja
Date Posted: March 11 2018 at 22:45
I take it Zarathustra was just so bad that you've tried to suppress all memories of them and couldn't even bring yourself to mentioning them in this thread? ------------- when i was a kid a doller was worth ten dollers - now a doller couldnt even buy you fifty cents |
Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: March 12 2018 at 00:25
| About ears hurting I saw Mars Volta as a support act to Red Hot Chili Peppers some year in the begin of 2000. I haven´t heard them before, they´re playing so loud that everything was just big mess, also Bixler-Zavalas high vocals sounded just ridicilous in the middle of that mess. Really didn´t like them at all then, later borrowed their album from the library and understood they´re great band. |
Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: March 12 2018 at 01:55
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I have never heard of the band in OP's post, and now my ears are upset. ------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: March 12 2018 at 05:05
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I don't like any of the psuedo-classical prog bands* but I find New Trolls particularly terrible. As bad at rockin' as they are at "concertos" - baroque and rock fused together as successfully as oil and water. *Come to think of it early ELO were pretty good at it though. ------------- 
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Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: March 12 2018 at 05:42
| ^Never really liked Ekseption or Tomita. |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: March 12 2018 at 05:45
| so everything one does not like becomes bad prog? |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: March 12 2018 at 05:49
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There's plenty of Prog that is bad for me, but the objectively worst that I've heard is various self-produced Prog projects. The very worst has been footage of some little live gigs by prog hopefuls. I don't like to name and shame groups and to remember the names I would have to search. I'd love to discover some so-bad-its-good type groups (the Ed Wood's, Tommy Wiseau's, and Manos: The Hands of Fate's of Progressive Rock). Or musically, The Shagg's Philosophy of the World of prog (a "bad" album that I genuinely adore). Perhaps some Captain Beefheart could count even if I love it? And while not Prog to me ears despite the mellotron's, that Big Elf also makes my ears hurt. If not very Prog songs by bands deemed Prog count, then these two could fit: I know some people genuinely love that Marillion, but I find it so cheesy (have to admit I do rather enjoy it and the Magma-- I like the album Merci, especially the B side, but I could see starting off the album with would put many off). And some might include some music off Comus' To Keep From Crying (I love the album). ------------- Just a fanboy passin' through. |
Posted By: hellogoodbye
Date Posted: March 12 2018 at 06:03
Neo Prog can hurt me so bad  Metal too, sometimes, but at least, it makes me laugh
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Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: March 12 2018 at 06:07
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^ but " bad prog" needs to come from genres one is familiar with and enjoys. I do not like RIO?Avant (apparently Zappa fits here and I enjoy a few of his albums) but I would never say "well, this genre sucks or is bad". I do like some Magma, but I'm not gonna explore zeuhl further, does not mean it's "bad". @Logan - I know how much you dislike Marillion's Hooks in You (you mentioned it quite a few times), but this song is not relevant to the h era of Marillion. It almost got a Van Halen vibe. I actually think you might enjoy albums like Brave, Anoraknophobia and Marbles.
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: March 12 2018 at 06:23
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I've said the same thing before as this kind of topic has come up many times. It's better to choose from a category you enjoy and know well as you can be a better judge of the music. Cristi, I like Hooks in You, it's very catchy and fun, and I know it's different from their other stuff (Uninvited Guest too one might say off the same album), just as that Magma song is really uncharacteristic of Magma. I don't mention either in a mean-spirited way and I've listened to several Hogarth albums. I still love the album Magma' "Ooh, Ooh Baby" is off and I get a perhaps perverse pleasure from the song. Magma is one of my favourite bands and I have mentioned that "bad" Magma song a lot in the forums (much more than the Marillion because I am a Magma fan) as it humours me and others (I sometimes think we should avoid taking our Prog heroes too seriously). Bad can be good. EDIT: For interest, here's an old topic on Worst prog Band: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=60203" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=60203 ------------- Just a fanboy passin' through. |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: March 12 2018 at 07:54
| From what I've heard I actually think Big Elf are pretty good. Better than Magic Elf. |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: March 12 2018 at 08:06
If one can't claim a band is better or worse than other bands - discussing music becomes kind of useless to me. This forum would be incredibly dull if the most considerate "say something nice or be quiet" among us got to decide. -------------
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Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: March 12 2018 at 08:43
I tried to explain furthermore what I meant. I can only call a band "bad" if it comes from a genre I am familiar with. If I listen to a band that's not my thing, I would not call that "bad", it's just that I don't get it/not feeling it. Am I making any sense? LOL
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Posted By: grantman
Date Posted: March 12 2018 at 08:50
| i have to admit other than a cover of SOUTH SIDE OF THE SKY,glass hammer just don,t do it for me. |
Posted By: Evolver
Date Posted: March 12 2018 at 09:30
With you on all points, Micky. ZPZ was our reason for being there. We suffered through Big Elf, but DT drove us away with their unrelenting lack of dynamics. I like much of their recorded music, but the live presentation was terrible. ------------- Trust me. I know what I'm doing. |
Posted By: Hrychu
Date Posted: March 12 2018 at 10:09
| If I had to pick a really bad prog act, it would be Agents of Mercy. Bland prog by the numbers with annoying vocals. |
Posted By: Shrek the Progre
Date Posted: March 12 2018 at 10:55
| KANSAS there said it |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: March 12 2018 at 10:58
Magic Elf is a great prog-fusion trio that sounds nothing like Big Elf (heavy psych-prog that is shamelessly retro). I like Big Elf's Closer To Doom and Hex. They do appear to be stuck in a bit of a rut after that. ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: March 12 2018 at 14:23
------------- "It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno |
Posted By: mathman0806
Date Posted: March 12 2018 at 15:25
I am not familiar with Big Elf, but I found the video enjoyable in a Spinal Tap-ish sort of way. Of course, if it wasn't meant to be humorous ...
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: March 12 2018 at 15:39
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Darren Reddick made a habit of playing too much Dream Theater , Spock's Beard , Transatlantic , Neal Morse and probably as a result killed his Prog show on Planet Rock . None of those are actually bad but they don't leap out as bands that take a chance. My own pick is probably The Flower Kings in terms of going on endlessly with no real point whatsoever. However pulled it back with Banks of Eden which is actually very good. I thought the last Anglagard was very poor but it had to be brilliant because of the long wait. Denial is not just a river in Egypt.
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Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: March 12 2018 at 23:05
Yeah, imagine how I felt when they slogged onstage before Dream Theater! ------------- I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!! |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: March 12 2018 at 23:08
I've played in a Spinal Tap tribute band called "Casual Cro Bar," in which I did "Nigel" honors. I know Spinal Tap, Spinal Tap are "friends" of mine. Big Elf are no Spinal Tap, they actually think their act is cool. I guess there are some who like them. Me in Casual Crowbar...deliberately bad art-project rock! We did "Baby's On Fire," the kids dug it! I did Eno vocals and Fripp lead guitar, badly.  ------------- I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!! |
Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: March 13 2018 at 16:31
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This thread has inspired me to listen to Pallas - The Sentinel again. Not quite as bad as I recall it, but definitely NOT good. ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow">  https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: March 13 2018 at 16:50
The debut is ok if you ask me, their follow up album The Wedge is the dud in their discography.
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Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: March 13 2018 at 16:53
I owned a copy of this at the height of my neo prog phase circa 1985, and I listened to it with gusto many times. But even then, in my heart of hearts, I knew it was a bit sh*t. ------------- Soldato of the Pan Head Mafia. We'll make you an offer you can't listen to. http://bandcamp.com/jpillbox" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp Profile |
Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: March 13 2018 at 17:09
That statement pretty much summed up my Dream Theater listening days. ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow"> https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: March 13 2018 at 18:35
When it comes to Pallas, I love the very first release, 1981's Arrive Alive and almost nothing else. I think the live versions of Crown of Thorns and The Ripper are the best things they ever did. As far as the Sentinel, I really wanted to love it and gave it a ton of listens, but other than Cut and Run nothing really grabbed me... ------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: March 14 2018 at 00:11
Arrive Alive? Is that an official release? Never heard of it. |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: March 14 2018 at 13:13
Pallas is one band from the '80s UK neo scene I've never been able to get into. To varying degrees, where Twelfth Night, IQ, Pendragon, Jadis, Landmarq, no problem. Pallas? Just can't get into them... ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: March 14 2018 at 14:19
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Thanks for all your contributions! OP here, a few thoughts.... a) "beauty is in the eye of the beholder." What many of us consider to be "bad prog," others may worship. Indeed, scoring a recording contract is a notable undertaking, so even "bad" prog acts like the aforementioned Big Elf are noteworthy for that achievement. Well done, Big Elf! b) "Bad" prog follows somewhat the formula of "cheesy" prog that was once discussed on PA. Let's take Starcastle, a band I knew in college & hung out with. Talented? No doubt, their musicianship was top-notch. Derivative? Yes, they rather proudly let it be known that they would be the US response to Yes (I once heard the vocalist proclaim "We're going to kick some Limey ass!"). Original? Not so much. Bad? Indeed, they did produce some rather putrid prog, and after the first LP I found them to be unlistenable except for rare efforts. I walked out on a Marrillion concert once because it was bad and boring, nearly slept through a Porcupine Tree show because it was extremely boring (and they were even filming it for a DVD!). Sometimes fine musicians have bad shows or make bad music, it is expected to happen sometimes. That being said, there are genuinely bad prog acts. I had never heard of "Torman Maxt" until I started this post, and after listening to some on YouTube and reading reviews on PA, I can definitely confirm them to be "bad prog." I detest prog music that tries too hard, particularly if it attempts to hitch itself to the Bible. Ugh.
------------- I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!! |
Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: March 14 2018 at 17:30
Yes. It's their very first album released 3 years before The Sentinel! A friend let me borrow his vinyl version years ago and the song selection was much smaller than the current release extended CD version. Also, the version of Crown of Thorns was different (and much better) on the vinyl than on the CD release which was clearly recorded at a different show. Beware though, Arrive Alive is very rough around the edges and seriously unpolished compared to their studio albums...much higher energy and raw but I think that's part of why I love it  ------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 14 2018 at 18:22
thanks again for the PM.. you really are a doll man... sorry to have introduced you to Torman Maxt... there is a story there.. bad prog is everywhere. The reason Torman Maxt has achieved legendary status here is quite another... payola for promotion, removed negative reviews... and general profit driven owner interference with collaborators leaving in anger. Great times man... I don't pick on M@X for the hell of it. He earned it.. I do feel pity for many of the newbies here. You all really missed a lot of wild west sh*t in the earlier days of this site. Made Mexican soap operas tame in comparison. .we had it all ..sex.. murder, attempted murder.. corruption.. bribary.. slander... intellectual thievery.. now a wild day for the site is when someone creates a non Genesis, non Camel, non SWilson poll hahah ANYHOW... what do you think Charles about the notion of prog for prog's sake being in teh category of bad prog. If you understand what I mean... run with it.. if not.. I'll explain just what I mean by that later. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: March 15 2018 at 03:41
Jesus! I think As Your Mind Flies By is one of the greatest bits of prog - ever. ------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: March 15 2018 at 06:23
Well how can it be different? Personally I'm still balking after all these years at the fact that King Crimson were happy to release the Earthbound live album. OK it's radical and KC have always liked to be radical. But it's radical in the first place by being the worst production ever. Haha, before I actually bought it I read a positive review of it in the German Sounds. What is wrong with these people's ears? Well ultimately it's only "bad prog" by means of my dislike. If anybody loves it, fine by me. (Still have your ears checked  ) |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: March 15 2018 at 06:33
damn captcha, wrote a little bit and it's gone Anyway, songs from that album are on youtube, but I lacked the patience and mood for it, just listened a little bit. Not bad, I'll listen to the whole thing in the near future.
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Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: March 15 2018 at 08:47
Just checked out Crown of Thorns on YT and unfortunately it's the CD release version not the original vinyl. Still a must listen if you're already into Pallas though ------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: March 22 2018 at 14:55
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------------- Soldato of the Pan Head Mafia. We'll make you an offer you can't listen to. http://bandcamp.com/jpillbox" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp Profile |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: March 23 2018 at 10:09
| ^ that is a good example how bad vocals can ruin it all. |
Posted By: Blaqua
Date Posted: April 03 2018 at 15:22
| I don't like the cacophonous Mars Volta, despite their peculiar sound. In fact I don't consider them prog |
Posted By: miamiscot
Date Posted: April 05 2018 at 08:08
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Bad Prog? Maybe just stuff I don't personally like: It Bites Pallas Pendragon Knight Area Saga Arena None of the above bands are "bad" - just not my cup of tea. (There are many more. Mostly Neo stuff.)
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