Yes -Wakeman "mixed out" out of live performances?
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Music Lounge
Forum Description: General progressive music discussions
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=114988
Printed Date: April 28 2024 at 23:33
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Yes -Wakeman "mixed out" out of live performances?
Posted By: oldschool71
Subject: Yes -Wakeman "mixed out" out of live performances?
Date Posted: July 24 2018 at 07:32
|
In quite a number of Yes live videos it seems to me that Rick Wakeman cannot be heard in the mix. Yes, his key parts are there, but when not featured I don't hear him at all though video clearly shows him actively playing. For example in Union Tour video's there are times when he can't be heard at all, though all others (including Tony Kaye) are clearly present. Will be happy to provide specific example if you wish (my first post and not sure about linking yet...) Thanks in advance for any comments?
|
Replies:
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: July 24 2018 at 08:38
| Can't say I've heard about this and I can't remember from the Union tour. Mind you he hated the album so much he probably turned himself down and ate a curry instead. |
Posted By: oldschool71
Date Posted: July 24 2018 at 09:07
|
Here's what I'm referring to, one example of MANY that could be given in the single video. I don't hear Wakeman in the mix at all at these spots when he's in shot 5:57 6:07 17:05 17:43 18:05 (quick shots of him) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QO49gHC3tfc edit: link corrected |
Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: July 24 2018 at 09:10
Your link brings up Blood on the Rooftops...and I can't hear Wakeman at all  ------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
oldschool71 wrote:Posted By: oldschool71
Date Posted: July 24 2018 at 09:26
|
try this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QO49gHC3tfc
|
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 24 2018 at 09:48
|
This was more interesting when I thought that Rick played uncredited on Wind and Wuthering! Damn, that would have made a great story! ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: oldschool71
Date Posted: July 24 2018 at 09:51
|
Oh.. you haven't seen those pics of him during the sessions? I thought everyone has seen those.. :) |
Posted By: oldschool71
Date Posted: July 24 2018 at 09:57
| I think it a shame to have Wakeman mixed out of 50% of a concert. To me... that's criminal. |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 24 2018 at 10:24
|
I'm not going to pretend that I'm interested in the Union album material and associated concerts, so I'm not familiar with the music that was played by Yes at that time. If Rick Wakeman's keyboard parts were mixed out, that could be for many sound reasons. For example, redundant keyboard parts by Wakeman and Kaye that the mix engineer excised as he found that the music sounded better without the redundant keyboard parts, or that Wakeman's parts were badly recorded and excised. Or that Rick himself was not happy with how he played that night and asked that his rougher parts be mixed out. It's not all cloak and dagger intrigue.
------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: July 24 2018 at 15:22
| Interesting topic. I'll have to watch the videos and hear the sound tracks closely, then I'll get back to you. |
Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: July 24 2018 at 16:27
I was at the Union show at the Oakland Arena and I think the above explanation about the mix engineer is highly likely. After seeing Yes in '76, '77, '78 & '80, the sound at the Union show (the same venue I saw them in '77, '78 & '80) was comparably awful. Way louder than necessary to the point of discomfort and slight distortion. Maybe there were just too many egos and competing instruments and someone had to be mixed low (though choosing Kaye's parts over Wakeman's seems an odd choice  It was clear on the YesYears video during Bruford's interview that he was disgusted with the Union tour and wouldn't surprise me if Wakeman felt the same way and asked to be low in the mix ------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Posted By: oldschool71
Date Posted: July 24 2018 at 16:40
| I know trials and tribulation of the individual members through that period (including Wakeman) but I did see an interview (youtube) where he said that the Union tour was on of the most enjoyable for him. Of course, it was in an interview and who knows the truth. I'll try to find and post a link. |
Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: July 24 2018 at 16:56
|
That's cool, I hope Wakeman and the rest really did have a great time - BB never seemed to have much fun For me the whole joy of the Union show wasn't in hoping to see the most ripping version of Awaken/Khatru/whatever ever performed, it was just fun to celebrate being a Yes fan for all those years and seeing them all together. My fave part of the show was Bruford & Squire playing their duet in Heart of the Sunrise. I always wished Moraz had been part of the team. I could just imagine the sparks flying as Wakeman & Moraz traded Starship Trooper MiniMoog solos
 ------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: July 24 2018 at 17:05
|
How about Wakeman and Kaye trading solos? That would be...interesting, lol. ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: oldschool71
Date Posted: July 24 2018 at 17:10
|
My interest is not only the music but I find YesYes an interesting concept. How many bands can say that there were two of them at the same time? I love listening to bands and seeing the difference that one person can make. So with YesYes, and the multitude of lineups, you can see I have an endless supply of "research." And Kaye and Wakeman, with their totally different styles, really is an "oddity." Yet, with YesYes they both seem to work. I find that amazing. |
Posted By: oldschool71
Date Posted: July 24 2018 at 17:13
Kaye play a solo? When did that happen? I've seen Rick's parts played on guitar by Rabin, but I've not seen Kaye play one....
|
Posted By: oldschool71
Date Posted: July 24 2018 at 18:43
|
Here's the Wakeman quotes from a BBC documentary (37:00 & ff) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Huw0TAb7tm4" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Huw0TAb7tm4 Rick Wakeman quote concerning "Union" ALBUM When the album came out, because of computers, they changed all the parts that I played. I didn't recognize anything that I had done... and.. The producer had invited all these mates to play on the album as well... The only person who didn't play on the album was my dog.... It's called "Union" (the album).. I call it Onion - it made me cry every time I heard it. Rick Wakeman quote concerning "Union" TOUR Having said all that, we got together and went out and did a tour, and it was my most enjoyable Yes tour that I've ever done. It was absolutely fantastic" .
|
Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: July 24 2018 at 22:01
|
Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: July 25 2018 at 07:30
think this has occurred to me ---but will have to revisit ---he is def heard loud and clear on the ABWH live material and he's very in your face on the studio album which I have been listening to lately and loving it. He should have stayed with that line up
|
Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: July 25 2018 at 12:03
I think BB would have preferred that as well! I believe in Bruford's autobio, he says he was really angry when the record exec's decided to merge both versions of Yes to cash in on Union instead of supporting a 2nd ABWH album. It demonstrates a really disturbing fact of the music biz that musicians seem to have much less say than we think about who they play with, how much they tour, how often they release albums, etc
 ------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: July 25 2018 at 17:27
|
Perhaps he should have purchased amps that went up to 11. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: July 25 2018 at 21:20
read the book too---much of the blame goes to Jon Anderson who kept shunning Rabin version of Yes which is why he left and did ABWH---then when record company offered more money if Rabin was in Yes Anderson when back to yes west
Bruford and Howe were mad. |
Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: July 25 2018 at 23:48
Definitely an embarrassing chapter in the history of one of the worlds most beloved prog bands  ------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Bruford and Howe were mad.Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: July 26 2018 at 10:16
|
Jon loves the green...money. ;) ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: Boojieboy
Date Posted: July 27 2018 at 13:07
| Reminds me a little of how Tony Banks is nearly mixed out of the remastered and remixed Genesis releases from about 10 years ago. I was disgusted to hear how much lower his keyboards are on say, Dance on a Volcano for example, compared to the original mixes. All while the drums, guitars, and vocals were louder. |