It's time for Progressive RAP?
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Topic: It's time for Progressive RAP?
Posted By: Presentense7
Subject: It's time for Progressive RAP?
Date Posted: July 29 2018 at 07:30
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Different time signatures in one rap song...not that common for the genre. What do you think? (Here's the official video without translation to Spanish) |
Replies:
Posted By: Junges
Date Posted: July 29 2018 at 08:12
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I don't think it is progressive. Progressive doesn't mean automatically different time signatures. ------------- 
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Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: July 29 2018 at 08:21
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There's plenty of progressive rap out there - some of it is even listed here on PA. Faust's collab with Dälek for instance... but it contains rock. All styles of music have the potential of being progressive. Rap, blues, classical, polka, dub-step, klezmer and jazz - I should know - I've heard progressive music in all those genres. PA just concerns itself with the rock part of the equation. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: July 29 2018 at 08:35
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^ well mostly, David. We do extend beyond the paramaters of rock with progressive electronic and Indo-raga which often doesn't have any rock in the equation. Likewise with some psychedelic folk that eschews the rock elements. I think these inclusions instill a great amount of confusion for newbies. It sure did for me. However, progressive rap ain't happenin' here! -------------  https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: July 29 2018 at 08:50
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Hah I know! I was in the process of explaining all that and it became more and more convoluted as I went along. Truth is we do have some styles of music here without the rock ingredient, but they're most oftenly either closely knitted together with the neighboring prog rock scene (often with prog musicians shifting from one style to another) or simply bands that were popular among prog rock fans at the time and riding the same kind of experimental wave in music. Prog folk springs to mind. I often wonder whether PA took the right decision when it opened up to all these things because where exactly does one stop? Funk, pop, trance, hip hop, classical? As it is now I feel we can defend the different boxes alright, but it is as you say quite the jungle to an outsider peeping in  ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: July 29 2018 at 11:17
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no. ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: Prog-jester
Date Posted: July 29 2018 at 15:12
| Presentense7, plz use search. There were at least three "could rap be prog?"-related threads, and there was a lot of healthy discussion (and some bitter butthurt, too) |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: July 29 2018 at 15:40
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No.....please let's not combine rap and prog. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: tempest_77
Date Posted: July 29 2018 at 15:56
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I'm gonna get shot for this, and I actually fully disagree with any notion of it being prog, I'm just doing it for the meme, but... Kanye West - My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy (2010) ------------- I use they/them pronouns (feel free to ask me about this!) Check out my music on https://tempestsounds.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - my bandcamp ! |
Posted By: DarkTower
Date Posted: July 29 2018 at 17:39
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Marillion did include some rap in Quartz. Pendragon did the same with Empathy. Though i don't like rap music, those 2 songs are still very enjoyable. |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: July 29 2018 at 21:21
| I guess I would be interested in seeing were that could lead, but I don't really know if I could come to like it. However, I can immagine it being very keyboard and drums driven... if only they would include some real instruments and melodies. I would be interested in something of the sort, with a whole african drums ensemble, and a gospel choir. |
Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: July 29 2018 at 21:55
| No. |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: July 30 2018 at 14:03
It's time for Progressive RAP?No it's not..... -------------   
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Posted By: Boojieboy
Date Posted: July 31 2018 at 15:24
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No thanks. If it's rap, it's not for my ears.
What's next? Progressive adult contemporary? Progressive easy listening? Egad...
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: July 31 2018 at 15:35
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------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: mathman0806
Date Posted: July 31 2018 at 17:40
Progressive Rap, or PRap, rhymes with ... 
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Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: July 31 2018 at 19:32
Same here  ------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Boojieboy wrote:Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: August 01 2018 at 07:24
And I wonder if this is the problem with "accepting" the word and the implications of "progressive" anywhere. It has to be able to encompass more than just a rock idiom, which is known to be not as original as a lot of other musics out there, in their format. In this sense, we are adding some trivial information that supposedly makes it "progressive" and this is almost like saying that nothing like that happens anywhere else, and that is simply not true, it is very naive, and sadly ... totally top ten oriented, which will automatically exclude 90% of all the music that is available out there. That folks and a jazz and a couple of other things get mentioned is almost a miracle, but in the end, the progressive artists in ECM, for example, are not even considered, and many of them were way up further and more experimental, but because their work did not follow any rock formula, they can not be accepted or understood, and even worse ... listened to. I always found it bizarre that we think Jeff Beck is great (and I do!), and his style of high end solo that he used in Roger Waters album in the 90's, was something that Terje Rypdal had done some 20 years earlier, but so few of us ever would consider listening to it. It was, even for me, hard to consider EOS, and ODYSSEY ... "jazz" ... because it was more of an extended trip than it was either jazz or rock ... but we have to have our formulas! In my book, RAP was progressive in the late 60's when some folks, like Gil Scott Heron was already doing it over a rock beat and telling it like it is ... but what became known as "rap" some 45 years later, has its nice moments lyrically, but all in all, is a sad comment about what music really is for my tastes. I don't dislike it, I simply can not see a whole lot of value in it other than a few lyrics, and for me, and many others, that is simply not enough to make it important. ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: August 01 2018 at 08:13
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^ the thing that makes hip hop (rap is really just a vocal style aroiund a beat whereas hip hop is the actual whole enchilada that incorporates the musical aspects) is that it connects to the human spirit. Much like punk, it de-emphasises the musical constructs in favor of lyrical content that connects the listener to the real world rather than the escapist tendencies of fantasy rock (such as prog). Having said that, hip hop is more diverse than many realize and yes you are correct that the rapping style really goes way back. Isn't the scatting that Ethel Mermann really just nonsensical rapping?
I wouldn't call any hip hop progressive in this site's sense but there is certainly innovative and musically interesting examples: Just a few faves that are worth checking out... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdrossKXGb4&list=PLwwEII6--gqdSPpbEx6qjjgCg8k7R7tod" rel="nofollow - Blackalicious - Blazing Arrow - YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX3rmlHG4XM" rel="nofollow - Death Grips - Year of the Snitch (Full Album) - YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6YJjkO7F5A" rel="nofollow - Deltron 3030 - Deltron 3030 (FULL ALBUM) - YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMQHVzSPTec&list=PLFEDD4313D721F0D0" rel="nofollow - Ice-T- Shut Up, Be Happy - YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX0CLLiVAnw&list=PLvdIn_vh_tIg5nd5y_lf-hniRqbaijR-V" rel="nofollow - Wesley's Theory - YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxbO8j_71sE" rel="nofollow - Who's To Blame - YouTube ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: August 01 2018 at 08:45
That's exactly what I meant by "lyrical". I do not take value away from lyrics, and accept the poetry side of it, or even what might be considered "anti-poetry" in it. I am not sure, however, that "hip hop", connects to the human spirit any more than any other music ... in that sense it is all the same/similar feeling that attracts all of us to this or that, regardless of what we call it. I think it important that we see that point, and understand it as something that is special/peculiar to all cultures and all the arts! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Polymorphia
Date Posted: August 01 2018 at 12:54
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Mostly, though rap's experimentation is of a different sort than prog's. The backbeat, for instance, is pretty important to the genre, so odd meters are uncommon. ------------- https://dreamwindow.bandcamp.com/releases" rel="nofollow - My Music 
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Posted By: Cord Change
Date Posted: August 01 2018 at 16:05
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Siah & Yeshua Dapoed - A day like any other Prog hip hop has been around awhile ------------- Minus the h. |
Posted By: Prog-jester
Date Posted: August 01 2018 at 16:23
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Posted By: Polymorphia
Date Posted: August 02 2018 at 09:38
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Missed the vid in the OP lol ------------- https://dreamwindow.bandcamp.com/releases" rel="nofollow - My Music
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Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: August 02 2018 at 16:31
Hey, something we agree on. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: August 02 2018 at 21:59
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Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: August 03 2018 at 19:57
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The only time I think I liked the inclusion of rap in a rock song, and it was brief, was Ice-T's cameo on Black Sabbath's song "The Illusion of Power." ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: Prog Sothoth
Date Posted: August 03 2018 at 20:01
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Didn't Rush already cover that turf... Roll da bones yo! |
Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: August 04 2018 at 02:07
Kick some gluteus max... It's all pop cultural identity and rap was about the avoidance of rock. Which for the most part is what has happened. There is little of no rock in the Billboard top 40 (and probably 100). Prog is not required (as I type The Moodies at the Isle of Wight 18970 DVD plays). If rap or rather hip hop wants to advance it is up these guys to do it. Bad enough with religion in prog (Neal Morse)... Oh that reminds me - I don't think this came to anything but many years ago I did hear of Jon Anderson writing a rap opera... Wagner meets NWA. Can't wait...
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Posted By: Cylli Kat
Date Posted: November 03 2018 at 15:20
^ Amen. Prog-rap?!?!? If it happens, let it happen after I die... Rap and/or Hip Hop or whatever you new-fangled kids (with your interwebs and whatnot ) call it these days should stay on its side of the barricade.The crossover to Rap-Metal was not a good thing to me. Prog-Rap doesn't sound appealing at all... Obviously, mileage will indeed vary on this one... Since I originally posted, a neighbor has played several different rap hip/hop artists that I could appreciate, but in no manner could I call anything that I heard as being progressive... I still have to go with no as my answer... ------------- [Insert Clever Phrase Here] |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: November 03 2018 at 15:26
Agree completely, and I'd include EPMD ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: Davesax1965
Date Posted: November 08 2018 at 06:03
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Sorry, not for me. Personal opinion - rap is all part of the (artificial) hip hop culture which I absolutely despise. It's manufactured product. "Entertainment" and not "music as art". Someone came on a music forum once and asked everyone to critique his (rap) music. I said sorry, not for me. The reply was "It was the only way I could get out of the ghetto". Ghetto my rosy red a$$, he'd done it on a very expensive Apple Mac with a copy of Cubase, which are not typically found in a ghetto. I think I can honestly say - personal opinion - that I despise everything about rap and the artificial culture that hangs off it. ------------- |
Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: November 09 2018 at 11:01
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No. Most definitely not. ------------- "It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno |
Posted By: Kempokid
Date Posted: November 09 2018 at 15:16
| I personally believe that if it were further pushing the boundaries of music, even doing so in the form of rap music, then there isn't any problem with the concept of progressive rap. We already have artists such as Death Grips which are doing interesting things in the genre of rap and hip hop, and I personally see no issue with more groups in that genre being experimental. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: November 10 2018 at 02:58
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this is what a progressive rap should sound like (and it's a homage to Bob Dylan, which (w)rapped it all the way back in 1966) |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: November 10 2018 at 03:11
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You guys should check out some real rap instead of searching high and low inside old dinosaur remains for remnants. Avantdale Bowling Club released this year's finest hip hop album imo. An album with heaps of experimental vibes and jazz at the very heart of it...but yeah sure there is also a guy RAPPING on it which most likely will scare off the paleontologists  https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yYQxjSMFmT8 Does that mean that I support a prog rap category here on PA? Indeed! I would also like to see progressive throat singing, trance and schlager added  ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: November 10 2018 at 03:31
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More slam than rap, but I always thought that Grand Corps Malade's arrangements were very proggish... |
Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: November 10 2018 at 04:17
If it's not for you then fair enough, nobody's obligated to like it. In regard to hip-hop just being “manufactured product” though I think that - like any genre that is actually popular - much of what is most visible will be exactly that, but it doesn't apply universally. There's a good deal more going on than that. ------------- Soldato of the Pan Head Mafia. We'll make you an offer you can't listen to. http://bandcamp.com/jpillbox" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp Profile |
Posted By: zwordser
Date Posted: November 10 2018 at 09:11
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I had this conversation a while back with someone who loved Soft Machine and music similar thereto (amongst many other conversation about prog rock). He had familiarized himself with some hip-hop/rap in his younger days, and showed me a video of some hip-hop music that he thought was "progressive" because it was a concept/epic album. I only listened to a snippet, and it sounded much like regular rap to me. Unfortunately I don't remember what it was exactly. ------------- Z |
Posted By: sturoc
Date Posted: November 10 2018 at 10:27
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I never considered RAP music it was more social /political statements using a beat as a vehicle. Not an art form. btw respect the opinion , dont try to chastise it |
Posted By: GrafHaarschnitt
Date Posted: November 11 2018 at 07:32
Yeah, thats right but the indo prog/raga rock doesn´t always contain rock IMHO. Edit: Not a hundred percent sure about some of the electronic ones too. In general some of the last additions were ... questionable. At first we should ask ourselves is this still rock : D |
Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: November 19 2018 at 00:04
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The closest example would be the Come With Me song Puff ("I don't know no D from no E" Daddy did with Jimmy Page. I did hear of a rumour which as far as I know has not happened. Jon Andrson doing rap / opera concept something. All these point toward a negative. Hip hop does occasionally demonstrate some ability to use the song format. But it's just reinventing the wheel and painfully for the most part. A pair of words followed by two beats (repeated slowly) is musical impoverishment indeed. The last thing of hip hop I heard... Currently listening to a Carl Palmer drum solo (Steve Hackett guesting). No voices, no melodies and only the occasional well timed phrase in it's arsenal. Big fat no... |
Posted By: rgodfrey53
Date Posted: November 27 2018 at 11:31
| . |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: November 27 2018 at 13:04
| ^ And the man sometimes referred to as the Godfather of Rap, Gil Scott-Heron (a label he rejected, spoken word proto-hip hop would suit him better) |