Magma
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
Forum Description: Discuss specific prog bands and their members or a specific sub-genre
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=116110
Printed Date: April 25 2024 at 19:25
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Magma
Posted By: YESESIS
Subject: Magma
Date Posted: August 11 2018 at 22:14
|
I know this band is fairly popular on here and for a short while I was totally loving their MDK album. I was meditating to it every day, it's just so rhythmic(can't find that in other albums, not like that). But then I found out some information about their main guy.. he might have been a nazi supporter. So I stopped listening to them. Anyway, I've been unable to find ANY interview with him where this is discussed(to hear his side of it). I know that people are rolling their eyes and saying, "tons of musicians have serious issues, get over it." But the thing is I don't want to meditate to bad energy, if that makes sense to people. So any helpful suggestions would be great and appreciated.. You know for sure that he's not, or you know of some very similar music that isn't Magma. If no one has anything then that's fine, just figured it was worth a shot.
|
Replies:
Posted By: Larkstongue41
Date Posted: August 11 2018 at 23:14
|
You're not meditating if you're listening to music but that's another story... ------------- "Larks' tongues. Wrens' livers. Chaffinch brains. Jaguars' earlobes. Wolf nipple chips. Get 'em while they're hot. They're lovely. Dromedary pretzels, only half a denar." |
Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: August 12 2018 at 00:19
|
Oh God this again...Well I can talk very straight now. I am not Christian, but I believe in God and really also believe in positive energies. And really Christian Vander is person who also believe in positive energies (if you have listened Hhai from Emëhntëhtt-Re, it´s hymn of love). Also, he´s "guru" is John Coltrane who is afro-american if you didn´t know. I think this whole thing is just about that in wikipedia there was a text, that said Daevid Allen has said Vander had nazi svastikas on the wall in the begin of seventies. But that text has now removed, so it can also be just nonsense, at least it seems not have any references. Also there are svastikas in the first album cover, but that cover describes how bad the world has gone. After these things Vander has never got any nazi sympathies, he hasn´t even ever said to support the right side in the politics in France. I think many artists have their dark sides, specially when they were young, also Vander looked really wild in the seventies specially at stage, on the other hand in the interviews he seemed to be very calm and nice guy. I just hope you´re stop being hypocrite, if you can´t listen Magma whatever reason, just don´t listen. But don´t start these kinds of thread that´s meaning just seem to throw mud to some person. Also, about Magma´s music, I think it´s really much shamanistic so maybe you just shouldn´t listen shamanistic music (as far as I know many Christian thinks shamanism is from evil).
|
Posted By: friso
Date Posted: August 12 2018 at 05:23
|
Artists don't want to hug the world and plant flowers, they want to make great art. Get over it. ------------- I'm guitarist and songwriter for the prog-related band Mother Bass. Find us at http://www.motherbass.com. I also enter stages throughout the Netherlands performing my poetry. |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: August 12 2018 at 06:21
|
Hi, The hard part of all this, is that the kid is "meditating" and he has no idea what he is meditating to, or why. "Tripping" is more like it, but I honestly do not believe that there is a rotten bone in that man, and in Stella (for that matter) and having met them, I can tell you that there is a lot more beauty and understanding here than is visible in a lot of bands, and work. So sorry that funny/weird/bs stories get you like that ... that is a form of fear that is worse, a lot worse, than your "meditating", since it is spreading a fear that prevents you from learning anything ... honestly, I say that you have to learn for yourself what the truth is, and that does not mean to ask others ... you have to look, study, fly, live and die to find out for yourself ... and stop snickering if you made a "mistake" ... there is no such thing as a mistake, only folks that refuse to learn their lessons and study a little more and experience life as it is ... not as some fantasy version you think a religion tells you! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: August 12 2018 at 06:50
|
I know from some very well informed friends that there is probably at least some truth in the rumors. You need to make up you own mind on this stuff and do so research if it really bothers you. For what is worth his hero, Coltrane, is black, and he was married to someone who is Jewish and had Jewish members of the band. I guess the simplest statement is its complicated. I still listen to their music regularly.
You guys are a bit quick to jump on the use of the word meditating in the OP. ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: August 12 2018 at 07:31
| Talking about "bad" guys in rock to me one of the worst is Beefheart. You can read about wikipedia what kind of conditions "Trout Mask Replica" was made. When reading that it really didn´t make me glad, but still I love that album. But anyway if some music has bad vibes, I believe it´s that. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 12 2018 at 10:11
|
We put a lot of time and effort into the last discussion, and though I'm tempted to copy and paste or review what I said there, I won't. Seeking proof that he is not a Hitler supporter "you know for sure" seems an odd approach and mindset to me and illustrates a prejudicial outlook (not very open minded). Proof operates as a principle in logic and law, but even if you mean evidence as nothing can be known with absolute certainty, including what I just said, it seems an odd and uncharitable way to go about things to me. If he hasn't discussed it and offered his side to it, maybe it's because it's such a non-issue (not just for him, but for interviewers). If it was important, then it is more likely that he would have been asked about it and spoken up about it to defend his reputation. Such topics in such forums is one way that rumours get spread, and it's problematic because some people are wired to always harbour doubts even if there's a ton of evidence to the contrary and if the allegations are baseless. If I said that Chancellor Martin d'Auberville von Chang II is a pedophile, some people would not only only believe it when I say it, but continue to harbour doubts even when it is shown to be a fabrication or a distortion of events. While I do believe in scepticism, I am a great believer in principles of charity. Not only do I think that we should attempt to treat others as intelligent, rational creatures and,strive to put their arguments in the strongest form possible, but I also think and that we should attempt to see people, including their motivations, in the best possible light. I like to assume honesty, compassion and general goodness unless there is strong evidence to the contrary (doesn't mean I'm not wary or indeed rather of the misanthropic mindset at some times more than others). I think that too many people are far too judgmental of others. To me just doing this topic is not being charitable to Christian Vander, which might seem rather unChristian (unChristian Vander that is -- haha) and I am disheartened to see this come up again. I think that he had some fascination with Nazism, and it inspired The Time of Hate era of his Kobaian mythology(as mentioned, the debut with the non-Buddhist swastikas shows a scene of horror, with an eagle's talon swooping over terrified people, which evokes the symbol of the Nazi party. I also think that the Time of Love era of his mythology is post Nazism when Fascism has been dispensed with. One could interpret that in various ways, it could be akin to the Marxist revolution, a dictatorship of the proletariat before such a state was dismantled for a Utopian communist society, so he felt that a Time of Hate was a necessary precursor to a Time of Love, or it could be that he was just presenting an allegorical dystopia, a la 1984, that revolted him, but he presented a happy ending unlike the picture of the future being a boot stamping on a face forever. I would find it strange that Vander would do an over-the-top Hitler impersonation that sounds like parody in "Stoah" if he respected or supported the man. I have a Persian historian professor friend who has written many books, and he has long been fascinated with Nazism, and there are some things that he likes about the ideals, but he does have a nuanced view. As said, Coltrane is his hero, and I think I quoted Vander's thoughts on him in the last thread. He has performed with black musicians, he loves African American jazz, an ex-wife was Jewish as said. I know nothing of why the marriage ended, but I doubt it was because he sought the extermination of the Jews, or she couldn't stand his going on-and-on about The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Without knowing anything about the marriage, or the timeframe, it would be conceivable that a bad marriage led to a fascination with anti-Semitism. People are complicated, and people's perspectives change over time. From what I do know of people saying about him as an older man, at least, is that he is a loving and spiritual man. This search for evidence seems a strange one to me. Presuming guilt rather than innocence by asking for proof that he never supported Hitler is uncharitable, and not how people into logic and evidence commonly approach such matters. Surely the burden of proof should lie on proving that he was a Hitler supporter (innocent until proven guilty). I read that old Wikipedia article, now amended said Mortte (anyone can add there), and have read something else on it, but I recall no claims that he supported Hitler, only that he had some Nazi memorabilia, which could have been used as inspiration for his music which, as said, was, in part, inspired by Nazism as wel as by the mythology that they drew on. He's passionate about his music, and like a method actor, I could imagine him getting into such stuff when he's looking to draw on it for his story. Some actors get so into their work that they try to be like and sound like what they are portraying, which can lead to some social faux pas if they are, say, portraying Adolf Hitler or Vlad the Impaler. If a serious method actor is playing a cannibal and asks to "have you for dinner", be wary about the invitation even if they include an "over" in the sentence. Normally if I read something negative about someone, I would be sceptical of that and search for evidence to corroborate that and get a fuller view of it rather than search for evidence to prove that what was said is absolutely not true. If you find Vander not disproving it by saying nothing about this in your research, maybe it's because it never really was an issue at all and this is much ado about nothing. I find the Nazi regime both horrifying and fascinating, but I would never support Hitler. Insinuations are made about about people all the time, but that doesn't mean they should have to defend that in interviews, or that it is considered an important enough question, as there is some dark cloud that needs enlightening so an interviewer feels the need to ask the question: "Are you ever, or have even been a supporter of Hitler" (to reference the Communist witchhunts of MCCarthyism). Anyway, listen or don't to Magma. The energy, negative or otherwise, comes from you and says more about you than the music. For some other music that you might enjoy "meditating to", or tripping to as said. I think you might know this already, try Yatha Sidhra's Meditation Mass and Popol Vuh's Hosianna Mantra. I prefer to focus on my breathing in a quiet place when meditating (practicing mindfulness). By the way, it is thought that Stella Vander may have posted here in the past, but even if she does check this site now and then, I wouldn't expect a response from here. Perhaps you could email someone through Magma's official site -- methinks that such an approach would be better than casting aspersions on his character again. ------------- Just a fanboy passin' through. |
Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: August 12 2018 at 11:49
I've read similar and highly detailed accounts of Beefheart's, shall we say, "band abuse" in "Captain Beefheart, The Biography" by Mike Barnes (published in 2000). No, he does not come off like a nice guy, especially during the Trout sessions...but hey, no one was holding a gun to the head of the musicians in the Magic Band and they could have walked away at any time - and probably got a job with Zappa  Back on point...it really comes down to the question: Can you enjoy the music, but not like the musician? Of the hundreds of bands I'm into, I know virtually nothing about 90% of the musicians that made the music, a little about 5%, and a lot about the remaining 5%. To me, the music they created is all that matters. I don't care that Beefheart was a tyrant, Tony Banks a control freak or Lemmy a collector of nazi memorabilia, it's all about the music. As far as the OP being concerned about meditating to "bad energy" music, I understand the concern, but I'd say let your ears and heart be your guide. If the music feels right, why care what was in the head of the person that made it? Otherwise, you'll spend all your time researching musicians instead of digging the music  ------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Mortte wrote:Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: August 12 2018 at 13:06
This is actually helpful. Thank you. And thank you Nogbad for your post. Logan, I can see your point about this thread and so if you want to delete it.. by all means. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 12 2018 at 15:11
|
Nah, I won't delete it. Not only do I commonly dislike censorship, but I feel that deleting this would be "uncharitable" to the people who put time and thought into this thread, there's plenty of positivity on display, some good advice I think, and there is interesting reading. I respect our community. I do imagine how the Vanders might take some of this negatively if they became aware of it, an empathetic reaction on my part, but maybe they'd take it all in good spirits. Here's Vander talking about John Coltrane -- maybe this gives a bit more of a feeling for the man (there are English subtitles): I'm a big fan of Coltrane. And by posting this video, I'm not saying that no one could admire both Hitler and John Coltrane at the same time (one potentially could admire aspects of both Jesus and Hitler, and the Dalai Lama and Charles Manson). ------------- Just a fanboy passin' through. |
Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: August 12 2018 at 16:32
Mercy you can certainly tell he's a fan, I don't even talk about Zappa like that. You know he seems like a good guy. And the consensus on here seems to be that he is so, like you said before, I'm going to go ahead and give him the benefit of the doubt here. In fact I'm listening to Magma's first album right now, very jazzy I'm loving it. Thank you for posting this and for the two suggestions before, I'll have to check them out sometime. |
Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: August 12 2018 at 22:10
One point I want to say here more is that I think we all have our bad sides. And I think there is no better way than art to handle those sides, even creating own music (or some else art) or also listening some other, not so cheerful music. Also I don´t believe anything bad can stick you from music if you don´t want it.
|
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: August 12 2018 at 22:26
| I remember reading a very good post that would have helped you with this issue at just about the time you disappeard from the forum last time, that I thought you should have checked out, but by now I don't really remember which thread it was, nor what was said about it. But it might have been one of your own threads from back then. |
Posted By: FXM
Date Posted: August 13 2018 at 07:57
I am not sure I would find Magma music to meditate to - something like Virgin-years Tangerine Dream or Klaus Schulze, or maybe some of Electric Orange, or Cosmic Ground (an offshoot of Electric Orange) - might be more suitable for meditation.
|
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: August 13 2018 at 08:08
|
When I was much younger (but already at adult age if only just), I used some names and symbols that alluded to Stalin and his reign in a way that it may have been understood as if I was a stalinist, in a game playing framework. There was some meaning to it in the sense that I wanted to put up some "scary" symbolism in a context in which this was slightly grotesque; it fit my humor at the time but now I think it was bad taste and being too young to understand how some things are easily perceived by people. But I was certainly not a stalinist in any way, I wasn't even uninformed and naive about him, I just was immature in terms of what to communicate and what people make of that. I'm happy that I'm not a public figure and that nobody will dig this out these days to evidence that I was or am a stalinist. Not sure how far the similarity of this story to Vander goes, just saying...
|
Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: August 13 2018 at 11:41
I think there's a big difference between using symbols of oppression to make an artistic or fictional point versus using those symbols because they actually represent your own ideology. Of course, choosing to use those images in the first place can easily lead to the mistaken impression that you support their underlying meaning or message. Of course, if shock value is your purpose, these symbols still resonate heavily so will be quite effective in eliciting a visceral response. Look at Roger Waters and The Wall...especially the part of the story where Pink becomes a fascist rock star (In the Flesh Pt 2). Is Roger a closet nazi because he employed that imagery? I seriously doubt it, but it goes to show the problem people have in separating the artist from the art. In a related story, last week Germany reversed 70+ years of law and now allows the use of the swastika in video games if they have "an artistic or scientific purpose or help describe current or historical events." In the mid 90's when WWII computer flight simulations began popping up, the authors had to release 2 versions. One with the historically accurate swastika on the tails of the planes and another for Germany without. Whether it's the swastika or the confederate flag, as much as some people would like to pretend they never existed, they're both historical facts. Shoot, Zakk Wylde plays a custom confederate flag painted Les Paul but I somehow doubt there's many people that refuse to listen to him because of it ------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: August 13 2018 at 11:56
Maybe if he wants to try real meditation, he can sit through Frank Perry's first 2 albums ... the only hint I can give you is that it took me 3 times to get past the first 5 minutes of side one of the first album. Since then, I can easily meditate through these, and I still think that this is probably one of the best meditation albums around. There are others, but I am not sure that many really go this far and deep, as this one does ... and to think that "rock music" can do something this strong, is to really confuse the idea of what "meditation" really is. The valuable lesson in meditation for this, is that it is not supposed to "lead you in" with lyrics of well known/accepted ideas about some instruments, that have a tendency to change your inner direction into something that is not called meditation. Both TD and KS, are good at these things, although KS would be better suited for it, since he does not work on the melody or the "song" side of the music ... he merely sticks to what he is doing at the moment with whatever he is working on, and specially in the many pieces in the WORKS series which have NEVER been publicly released (these were a special order 10 CD sets some 25 years ago), only to find out that in those pieces are KS's best meditations I have ever heard. And that is not to say that his own albums are not as good, because they are, but for the most part, I'm not sure that most people are capable of sitting and listening to KS, because of their top ten conditioning of their minds and thoughts. Musicians like KS, pretty much demand that you displace your ideas about music, and just live inside that moment within the music ... nothing else, and no words necessary, although the stuff with Arthur Brown has never bothered me, and in fact seemed to be just right.
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: August 13 2018 at 12:00
True and fair enough, but there's a third category in which such symbols may be used out of lack of consideration making a "point" that wouldn't have required them and could have been better transported without, even though they still don't represent one's own ideology. And maybe a fourth category in which there's a probably somewhat irrational fascination on show with these symbols and what they represent, without explicitly either supporting the ideology or distancing oneself from it. This is easily misinterpreted, and because it involves an element of provocation, the artist may be fine with that, at least for the moment. (David Bowie comes to mind.)
|
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: August 13 2018 at 12:14
What is strange to me, and I am a writer, is that most writers I have EVER met, and this includes the many around my own dad's work and life, they did not write because they wanted to display a symbol in the nude so you know what it meant. Most of them wrote what they saw and felt, and WE, the readers, LATER, were the ones that thought that "symbols" of this and that were created. I, for example, do not use "symbols", however, I have been asked, more than once, why do I use "personal symbols", instead of "universally known symbols", to which I could only reply ... "I'm not a copy. I only write what I see, not what I have been told." But even Dean, confronted me on this saying that the likelihood is that some of these became a part of me as I grew up, which is quite possible, however, my usage of these has nothing to do with someone else's interpretation of these symbols and their use. Thus, the gross misinterpretation of some works, and in this case, I find that MAGMA is vastly misunderstood, however, the folks that have seen them and have LISTENED to them in depth, usually know a lot better. One worry, though ... pretty soon someone is gonna post that CARMINA BURANA is also linked to the same ___________ symbols because of what it sounds like! (It's not as rock'y, or jazz'y, though!)  ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: August 13 2018 at 12:21
I'm not suggesting Vander is of this type, by the way. ------------- Soldato of the Pan Head Mafia. We'll make you an offer you can't listen to. http://bandcamp.com/jpillbox" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp Profile |
Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: August 13 2018 at 15:07
This is the category of people who collect military memorabilia, though I wouldn't necessarily call it "irrational". I think this is where Lemmy fell and it's well known that Charlie Watts is a US civil war collector...I don't think that automatically makes Lemmy a nazi or Charlie a racist I consider myself a WWII European theater history buff, but have never collected any memorabilia. To me, those physical objects have an energy and especially collecting axis memorabilia that was so connected with evil is just not a great idea...obviously, Lemmy felt otherwise
------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: August 13 2018 at 15:12
|
^ Mind you, there are those who make Lemmy look like an amateur: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/24/the-man-who-sleeps-in-hitlers-bed" rel="nofollow - The Man Who Sleeps In Hitler's Bed I found this morbidly fascinating. And morbid is the word I think, Wheatcroft seems like a very sad individual. ------------- Soldato of the Pan Head Mafia. We'll make you an offer you can't listen to. http://bandcamp.com/jpillbox" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp Profile |
Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: August 13 2018 at 17:18
Holy Moly. Talk about turning your home into a real life haunted house. SS helmets and autographed copies of Mein Kampf along with Hitler and Goering's beds are one thing, but by far his creepiest pieces are the actual iron work from the officers gates at Buchenwald and a replica of the Auschwitz "Arbeit Macht Frei" gate...yuck. Why in the world would anyone want to have objects that witnessed or represented the horror of the camps in their home??? Morbid is right. ------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: August 13 2018 at 20:23
|
Yeah I'm thinking Mr. Vander's not a bad guy at this point. I've been listening to some Magma again and really enjoying it. I even meditated to MDK today(first time in several months) and man that felt good. Also thank you to everyone who gave suggestions of other music that might be good for meditation. |
Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: August 14 2018 at 01:02
|
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 14 2018 at 05:20
|
Done research into it. Just reading CD booklets gives information about the mythology, but also from reading websites about the mythology (the albums tell a story and he draws on different mythologies and inspirations such as Egyptian mythology) and from the Kobaian-English dictionaries (prepared by fans, so I won't claim accuracy). Some of us spoke Kobaian here quite well at one time. I have forgotten most of it mostly as there is no one here, that I'm aware of, to use it with any longer -- mostly it was used to insult, confuse and threaten Dream Theater fans while praising Magma (all in good fun, I assure you). We were just asserting our geeky superiority in a very tongue-in-cheek manner. Magma iss de hundin, wurdah Dream Theater! He chose Kobaian for the sound, and I won't say that it all means something, but many Kobaian words have meaning, such as theusz hamtaahk, which means Time of Hate. This site goes into some of the story: http://www.furious.com/perfect/magma.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.furious.com/perfect/magma.html And http://artist-shop.com/seventh/index.htm" rel="nofollow - http://artist-shop.com/seventh/index.htm And here's an old fan prepared dictionary: http://web.archive.org/web/20091021064935/http://geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Alley/8366/MAGMA-KOBAIAN-dictionary.html" rel="nofollow - http://web.archive.org/web/20091021064935/http://geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Alley/8366/MAGMA-KOBAIAN-dictionary.html Some of what I said in another thread on this topic is, my little interpretation and positing (from http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=111673&PN=4" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=111673&PN=4 ): For those that don't know, the bad times in Kobaian mythology is Theusz Hamtaahk, the Time of Hate. I've thought that the Kobaian mythology might be an extension of what might have happened in a parallel universe if Naziism had prevailed. Despite the darkness of Nazi like totalitarianism, eventually the human, or Kobaian I might say, spirit prevailed over the darkness and the dictatorship crumbled and so we get to the time of love. It's a fantasy based on humanity that draws on history. It's quite an Orwellian story only with a more positive message, we can triumph over evil, unlike in 1984 where you imagine a boot stomping on a face for ever. Magma is ultimately uplifting, and spiritual.... The story starts off dystopian and turns Utopian. A bit like a 1984 type totalitarian world, only referencing Naziism in particular rather than the communism that Orwell referenced, becomes more like the Chronicles of Narnia. Which was me being rather too fanciful perhaps (but I like draw in my own references to make a fuller experience). ------------- Just a fanboy passin' through. |
Posted By: hellogoodbye
Date Posted: August 14 2018 at 06:07
| Hard to know the truth of a man. Maybe the young and stupid Christian still lives in the old and wise mister Vander ? Who knows ? What i'm pretty sure of is that music always combines positive and negative energies. Without one of them, it suffocates quickly. |
Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: August 14 2018 at 06:28
|
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 14 2018 at 06:33
|
^ No problem. ^^ Music without contrast commonly sounds very flat to me. While they brought their own energies into the music, we bring our own energies into the music listening experience. Everyone's experience is quite different, and we bring in our own interpretations, associations and biases (hermeneutics and audience reception aesthetics). ------------- Just a fanboy passin' through. |
Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: August 14 2018 at 06:37
| ^BTW I think I haven´t recommended you Finnish band Absoluuttinen Nollapiste albums Pisara & Lammas 1-2. It´s also including a story, that have similarities to Magma-story. Music is not fully Magma-style, but anyway I really love those albums! I made reviews from them to progarchives, where I tell the story very simple way, if it interest you and you want to ask some clarifications from it, don´t hesitate to ask. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 14 2018 at 06:44
|
Thanks, Mortte, I will be sure to look into Absoluuttinen Nollapiste. For the jazzers, this was recommended to me by Saperlipopette ages ago, Gonda Sextet has a Magma air about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLf-5fIRvt4" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLf-5fIRvt4 . ------------- Just a fanboy passin' through. |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: August 14 2018 at 07:08
|
Doing so much live sound work and occasional studio recordings with everyone from beat poets to British Heavy meatal bands, I've come to understand that there is a distinction between the artist and his or her art. Surprisingly, I like the music if many the artists that I've worked with but wouldn't give a nickel for personality of many of the artists. Remember, artists are just people with the same hang ups and quirks that you and I have. Please meditate on that.
------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: August 14 2018 at 07:58
|
I don't care if he's the anti-Christ, i love the music. Likewise if JC came down and made an album i didn't like, i wouldn't listen to it. Having said that i think it's a bunch of unsubstantiated nonsense. ANYONE can claim ANYTHING and if you didn't hear him utter the words out of his own mouth then i'd disregard. Probably a Magma hater who made that. -------------  https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 14 2018 at 08:11
|
Heck, I sure would, at least once, even if it was a country western rap album by DJ JC called "Ridin' my Truck out of Heaven" or "Saints in the Hood". ------------- Just a fanboy passin' through. |
Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: August 14 2018 at 09:11
|
;) ------------- |
Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: August 14 2018 at 20:51
Well it was this.. you can make up your own mind. http://www.richieunterberger.com/allen.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.richieunterberger.com/allen.html The fourth paragraph under What were the primary assets Giorgio
gave to the acts he was involved with? |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: August 14 2018 at 21:09
|
^ Yeah, i've read similar things. Went through the whole head scratching pondering. I just haven't found a lot of credible evidence. Of course i can't prove it either way. I sure hope he's not a horrible person but he's certainly a brilliant musician. I think his wife is Jewish, no? ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: August 14 2018 at 22:04
From what I understand yeah. And I agree with you at this point that there's just not enough evidence. And like Logan said before, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt here. Now if he came out tomorrow and announced that he is a Nazi supporter, then I would be done meditating to them. I'd hate that because man is MDK good. Like I'm obviously not going to meditate to any Opeth anytime soon. People laugh and make fun, and I understand that but meditation is my spiritual time to go deep within and sometimes get real clarity about things. Or at least get some much needed healing relaxation.
|
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: August 15 2018 at 01:04
*used to great effect on Stöah from their debut album so its not some dirty, hidden secret but a natural part of the musical drama. ------------- 
|
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: August 15 2018 at 05:29
Great posting!
|
Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: August 15 2018 at 16:34
That seems like it might be a bit of a slippery slope though. Anyway, interesting take for sure. Thank you for sharing it. And thanks to all who commented on this thread.
|
Posted By: philipemery
Date Posted: August 15 2018 at 18:21
|
Not religious, not spiritual, don't believe in any of it. That being said it doesn't matter what this guy supported. Should I not listen to Richard Wagner because he was an antisemite? No. I like Ride of the Valkyries and that is that. Should I never watch Se7en or The Usual Suspects just because Kevin Spacey is in it and he went after a minor and all? No. I like those movies. I can like music and not like the composer/musician. I don't like Itzhak Perlman and his raunchy attitude. But I still love the soundtrack to Schindler's List. ------------------ In the end it doesn't matter two craps. If you like the music, then listen to it. Any bad mood you get because of the musicians is your own fault, and not the fault of the music's. It doesn't not matter one bit whether Vander is great, or a Nazi sympathizer (I bet 100% that he isn't though). It doesn't matter whether a person is gay, straight, bisexual, a Nazi, a Republican, a Libertarian, a Democrat, a Christian, or a Muslim. The music isn't the person, and if you stop liking or listening to music because some writer is a nasty person, then you have only proven your musical tastes to be shallow and dependent on bias against people groups, instead of about what the music makes you feel. Music isn't the musician. Learn to separate them. Otherwise you'll find that most music you can't listen to, because someone associated with it was a terrible person (by your subjective and biased opinion of what is or is not terrible). ------------- But the sun is eclipsed by the moon. -- Pink Floyd |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: August 16 2018 at 03:58
-------------
|
Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: August 16 2018 at 06:41
When reading those sites, they tell only very common parts of the mytology, it´s like your reading what´s said in the back of some book or books. I just wonder, has Vander and his bandmates ever written the whole mytology or even parts down? I remember in first album there are story put into it, but they´re not in english, from discogs I see there are some text in Magma 2, as far as I know MDK has only Kobaian lyrics. I have only Emehntehtt-Re as a vinyl, where are lyrics and in that it seems there is lots of reply, so that´s the reason why I originally thought how much Kobaian really is a language and how much it´s just great sounding words for vocals. Anyway even if the mytology isn´t anywhere as a large, solid story, it´s of course very interesting!
|
Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: August 16 2018 at 20:04
Well I might acknowledge my potential for evil, but I'm not going to fully embrace it and start collecting swastikas and trying to imitate Hitler or anything. I think that would be taking it too far. Like I said before though, I'm going to go with what Logan said and just give the man the benefit of the doubt for now and accept that he was young then(we all make some mistakes when we're younger) and probably isn't that way now. Plus I meditated to MDK again today and I can't believe how well that album works. Right now I literally know of no better album. |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: August 17 2018 at 01:29
-But here we have this eccentric artist whose greatest idol is John Coltrane (he literally worships/worshipped him), whose band has been multiethnic from the start and whose ex-wife is jewish. Cut him some slack and stop spreading these rumours that when out there on the internet - is almost impossible to defend oneself from. He is not a nazi - never was. Come on! Thinking he is you got to pretend to be more stupid than you are. Magma's estehetics and music flirts with totalitarian imagery... from their cultlike robes, logos, fonts and general bombast. Sometimes they sound like war. Its intentional of course. Totalitarian imagery is both repulsive and fascinating to many (including myself). Whether communist, Nazi or something else it has seduced hundreds of millions of people throughout history... and still does. Magma's very debut is about the destruction of planet earth and this group of people fleeing from it to live on planet Kobaïa - because man has made earth uninhabitable. Its a warning. Imo Collecting swastikas etc... isn't a mistake you so generously need to forgive the artist as a young man. Because the young artist hasn't done anything wrong. People should ask Vander to forgive them instead. -------------
|
Posted By: geekfreak
Date Posted: August 17 2018 at 01:50
|
Argh! This crap again move on ------------- Friedrich Nietzsche: "Without music, life would be a mistake." Music Is Live Two people are better off than one, for they can help each other succeed. Keep Calm And Listen To The Music… < |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: August 17 2018 at 02:57
|
Just a few thoughts on this matter: For me, music is something to listen to and not to meditate on. But that's just me. Anyway, I don't think that the work of Christian Vander should be placed in a political context, not even when the Orffian choirs and some Kobaïan vocals invoke associations with interbellum-German. And what to think about the marching hammers in The Wall? No one blamed Roger Waters for having Nazi sympathies. And justly, for the antisemitism and involvement in the BDS-movement, which earned him a fouth place in a top 10 by the Simon Wiesenthal Center some years ago, date from a later period. Yet his latest album found an appropriate place in my top 20 of 2017.
------------- 
|
Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: August 17 2018 at 15:36
|
Part of an interview to Christian Vander translated by Stella: The story of these people leaving Earth for a better place, another planet, is notfinished. Because as [early Magma bassist] Laurent Thibault said, Kobaïa is a planet… Kobaïa is like Earth, but without – how do you say – the stupid, the dumb people. Instead it had people with something in mind, and who wanted to work for a better place. They wanted to make this place a better place, but they had to do it on another planet. Because it looks like it’s impossible to do that on Earth. We could verify this, you know? So, it’s not science fiction. You see what I mean? It’s not about another planet with other people already living there. It’s just about escaping from here, and there are many different ways to escape. But this is one of the ways, trying to create another planet somewhere. It doesn’t have to be in space. ------------- Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half. My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com |
Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: August 17 2018 at 16:22
Wow, chill man. Nowhere did I say that he is/was. I've said that he seems like a cool guy and I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt as far as collecting swastikas and whatever when he was younger.
|
Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: August 17 2018 at 16:23
Good read. Thank you.
|
Posted By: philipemery
Date Posted: August 17 2018 at 17:08
|
You realize that still qualifies as science fiction right? This is a speculative fiction about a future people, using spaceflight to go to another planet, and start a civilization there. That is literally science fiction in every sense. BTW: Collecting things doesn't make you a Nazi. I have my own collection of Nazi coinage, paper money, and a few other items (even a Luger). I detest Nazism though. I just keep the stuff for the historical importance. ------------- But the sun is eclipsed by the moon. -- Pink Floyd |
Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: August 17 2018 at 23:13
|
^I think the main point in that Vander´s saying is that the main thing in Magma mytology isn´t that fictive story, but spirituality. I think he wants to tell in Magma-mytology, that people should search good and try to make their life better. And place to make that could be just one´s head. Also, I really understand Vander´s and his bandmates thoughts of that time. Hippies have just tried love revolution, but the it ended into violence in the end of sixties. So I think they thought that time, it would not succeed in the whole Earth at least that time, the whole Earth just weren´t ready to it.
|
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: August 18 2018 at 13:49
Edit: but I didn't mean you as in just you but more as a - "all of you" when I wrote: Thinking he is you got to pretend to be more stupid than you are - so my intention was "less aggressively" towards you specifically. But I am annoyed by this on Monsieur Vander's behalf for sure.
-------------
|
Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: August 23 2018 at 15:33
| ^ I'm sure you'll get over it. |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: August 23 2018 at 15:54
-------------
|
Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: August 23 2018 at 16:03
Wow. Ok I'll humor you, how exactly am I doing 'harm' to this man? I haven't put anything out there that wasn't already there. And I've even said that the evidence isn't enough and I'm giving the guy the benefit of the doubt at this point.
|
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: August 23 2018 at 16:23
|
^Of course a nazi-suspicion do harm. Its pretty much the most damaging label of all to be associated with - and this post of yours viewed 2200 times logically adds harm. And if you "know" that you shouldn't have started the thread in the first place there must be a reason for it. The positive thing is that practically every contributor here has defended him of laughed at the accusation. -------------
|
Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: August 23 2018 at 16:27
|
.
|
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: August 23 2018 at 16:45
-------------
|
Posted By: Canterburian
Date Posted: September 14 2018 at 20:17
|
Found this thread googling for news on the topic. The most serious accusations I know about are from ex-keyboarder Manu Borghi who speaks of Vander's admiraton for Hitler: http://kohntarkosz.blogspot.com/2009/11/some-words-about-recent-controversy.html?showComment=1257974246578#c8249785447085633405 There's also an old interview in which Vander called Indians and Africans degenerates: http://kohntarkosz.blogspot.com/2009/11/some-words-about-recent-controversy.html?showComment=1258156071667#c1789000702300080936 Those were linked from the Wikipedia article mentioned above, but removed later on. Sad thing is, apparently the band never really distanced themselves from Nazi ideology, just complained about the accusations. And as much as I love their music and would love to love it again, that's not enough for me
|
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: September 14 2018 at 20:44
|
^ and one of those replies doubts its validity: https://www.blogger.com/profile/17969186589302486768" rel="nofollow - Symmetry Therapy http://kohntarkosz.blogspot.com/2009/11/some-words-about-recent-controversy.html?showComment=1486962117929#c7525626448366569262" rel="nofollow - February 13, 2017 at 12:01 AM I really doubt the validity of this Emmanuel Borghi. I had a personal dealing with him in which he seemed a bit crazy. I did not get a "spiritual" feeling from him. I did get a very good sense from Stella and Christian when I met them. I don't see how Stella could stay with someone for so long who had some pretty crazy ideas about Hitler. ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 14 2018 at 22:00
|
^ I don't know man... all I had to say was a word.. yes.. and Stella was mine. She wanted me... I saw it in her eyes. That look a woman has when needs some action and excitement in her life. Perhaps it was the Hitler thing that nearly drove her to me... or I was just hotter than hell that night.. but we had that spark.. that unspoken connection umm hmmm yes sir. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: September 15 2018 at 06:08
^ Stella! Do behave already. One little talk about Hitler and you can't control youself!  ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 15 2018 at 09:28
|
you've met her... and you blame me for not being able to control myself? hah... meeting her and the circumstances we met is one of my favorite war stories. It was right out of sappy cheesy Lifetime movie... right up to the point in the plot where I severed our out of body connection and broken our deep eye contact and looked over and saw Raff stuffing a sandwich in her mouth at our table at that exact moment completely oblivious that Stella was trying to steal her husband and I was filled with such love for her and turned away and returned to Raff.. who knows where that meeting over the desert table might have led us hahaha.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Polymorphia
Date Posted: September 15 2018 at 09:35
|
I wasn't aware that women craved excitement such as that of a member of progressive rock database. ------------- https://dreamwindow.bandcamp.com/releases" rel="nofollow - My Music 
|
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 15 2018 at 09:38
|
it's all about sex appeal man.. some have it.. some don't hahah ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: September 15 2018 at 14:05
|
Delusional, definition thereof. ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 16 2018 at 11:12
|
hahahaha.. a curse Ian... deification thereof. I used to think being ohjectified and lusted after was cool, and it was back in the day, these days it freaks me out. Old age has tamed the monster finally I suppose. Just the other week it was right out of a diet coke commerical I was out digging a trench in that 105 degree heat shirt off and caught a group of women watching me and talking and giggling amongst themselves. I looked up and one of the licked her lips at me. yeah.. it is a curse man.. I am not just a body and a killer ass.. I have a mind, soul and feelings hahaha ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: December 19 2019 at 12:15
|
News - Magma fired their bassist (Philippe Bussonnet), their keyboard player (Jérome Martineau-Ricotti), and their vibes player (Benoit Alziary) last week. Replaced by Simon Goubert, Jannick Top's son and the third new member is a keyboard player named Thierry Eliez ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: hieronymous
Date Posted: December 20 2019 at 23:19
Wow - were they really fired? Not a simple mutual parting of ways?
|
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: December 23 2019 at 01:06
Wow...that's very unfortunate. I do have a soft spot for Top, but Bubu was probably the best bassist Magma has ever had. Interesting to see how this will effect Magma's sound, assuming of course they continue to produce new work. I also hope Bubu starts/joins another band that releases stuff so this top notch playing doesn't sink into the ether. ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: Tendiwa
Date Posted: March 16 2020 at 04:09
|
I had encountered Zeuhl a few times in my internet searching, and I had listened to some Magma on Youtube before but it never really clicked until November last year. I listened to MDK and I was blown away. Two months later I had downloaded pretty much all of their albums. I'm baffled that Magma hardly ever gets mentioned along with the other big prog bands from the 70s. Magma plays not too far from where I live in October and I have tickets! I have very high expectations.
|
Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: March 16 2020 at 07:41
|
Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: March 16 2020 at 08:22
------------- Soldato of the Pan Head Mafia. We'll make you an offer you can't listen to. http://bandcamp.com/jpillbox" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp Profile |
Posted By: Tendiwa
Date Posted: March 16 2020 at 10:29
I have heard of it, but I haven't listened to it yet. Especially Magma's first album is not among my favourites, but nonetheless I will give the Univeria Zekt album a try soon!
|
Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: March 16 2020 at 23:04
|
Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: March 17 2020 at 05:31
|
Posted By: Tendiwa
Date Posted: March 30 2020 at 09:22
| I have finally listened to The Unnamables. Fun album! |
Posted By: Tendiwa
Date Posted: April 03 2020 at 00:39
|
I have listened to Baba Yaga La Sorcière. MDK with adapted lyrics sung a children's choir. I like the music, but I would rather hear a more tight and full bodied sounding adult choir. Their are a few somewhat older girls singing, however, I think to keep things together. Still, it's a fun change to hear this version. You can hear it on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUa9h5Jsm54
|
Posted By: hellogoodbye
Date Posted: April 03 2020 at 02:10
|
Les passages sous cocaïne de David Bowie l'amènent à développer une fascination pour Adolf Hitler et le nazisme. "Il ne les admirait pas, ne les aimait pas, mais il était fasciné par eux", explique l'un de ses proches, Glen Hughes. "Il ne voulait que regarder encore et encore des films à propos des nazis. Il n'a jamais fait de salut nazi, c'était juste une fascination." David Bowie’s cocaine passages lead him to develop a fascination for Adolf Hitler and Nazism. " He didn’t admire them, didn’t like them, but he was fascinated by them," explains one of his relatives, Glen Hughes. "He just wanted to watch more and more movies about the Nazis. He never did a Nazi salute, it was just a fascination." |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: April 03 2020 at 09:39
| I haven't read through all five pages of this so I don't know if it's been mentioned yet but Lemmy from Motorhead(and Hawkwind)collected Nazi memorabilia and I'm pretty sure he wasn't a racist. In fact I'm pretty sure he dated a black woman at one point if I'm not mistaken. |
Posted By: Tendiwa
Date Posted: April 03 2020 at 14:32
|
I can understand that someone has a fascination for something that he doesn't necessarily approve of. Lots of people find the dark and violent side of humanity fascinating. Even something as vile as Nazi history. For instance because of the mysticism surrounding it, or the grandiose of its aesthetics. And I absolutely hate fascism and everything about it. Even if Christian Vander has some dubious ways or beliefs, I doubt that he really is a supported of nazi ideology. Because fascists are usually obvious and not very secretive. Can we talk about music again?
|
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 03 2020 at 14:47
|
I'm fascinated by many things of which I don't approve. I'm fascinated with the http://www.heavensgate.com/" rel="nofollow - Heaven's Gate cult, and have really researched it, referenced it, and listened to so much about it, but it doesn't mean I would follow it, support it, or go join a cult. I feel terrible for all those negatively affected by it. Part of it is just wanting to understand, and make sense of horrible things. I'm interested in psychology, sociology and philosophy, and history, and those interests intersect with many disturbing things. ------------- Just a fanboy passin' through. |
Posted By: Tendiwa
Date Posted: April 03 2020 at 14:55
Well put!
|
Posted By: The Anders
Date Posted: April 03 2020 at 15:27
|
Hm well, what can I say? I am a big admirer if Richard Wagner as a composer and artistic visionary. He clearly had some views that are not very nice, and his work has been used in some not very nice ways too. But if you just take his work for what it is and focus on the art more than the artist, it is amazing with multiple musical and artistic layers and many ways if interpretation. It is up to the perceiver how (s)he wants to understand it. But I know people who won't listen to Wagner because of its historical connotations, and I understand it and respect it.
|
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: April 03 2020 at 16:19
Although I personally don't feel much affected by this discussion, this (and what several others wrote in the same vein) makes me think that if Vander were simply fascinated by Hitler/Nazi culture/fascism but wouldn't support it at all, what would stop him from just saying so unambiguously and clearing the air?
Nope.
 |
Posted By: jamesbaldwin
Date Posted: April 03 2020 at 18:16
|
I like Magma very much, but but I haven't listened to them often. I have yet to start listening to them systematically. Scaruffi says that above all in the beginning they are followers of Gong, for the universe they create. I Gong, another very creative and original group. But overall I think I like Magma better. ------------- "Happiness is real only when shared" |
Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: April 03 2020 at 19:00
Same. I'm starting to like Gong a lot but they have no album nearly as special for me as MDK, almost no one does.
|
Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: April 03 2020 at 22:41
I also really love both bands, but Magma is also to me greater. But to me Magma´s first album is their "magnum opus". MDK is of course really great too as also 2, Tristan & Iseult (Wurdah Itah), Köhntarkösz, K.A and Êmëhntëhtt-Ré.
|
Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: April 04 2020 at 01:18
------------- Soldato of the Pan Head Mafia. We'll make you an offer you can't listen to. http://bandcamp.com/jpillbox" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp Profile |
Posted By: Tendiwa
Date Posted: April 05 2020 at 16:18
| Is the Theusz Hamtaahk Trilogie in the mythologically cronic order: Theusz Hamtaahk, Ẁurdah Ïtah, Mekanïk Destruktïẁ Kommandöh? |
Posted By: dr prog
Date Posted: April 09 2020 at 16:44
Love em but mdk is a bit boring  ------------- All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock. |
Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: April 09 2020 at 20:26
|
Haha. I like that. I love classic, Peter Gabriel Genesis.. But Selling England by the Pound is boring son.
|
Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: April 09 2020 at 22:54
|
Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: April 09 2020 at 22:59
 Same is also those "Floyd-fans"..."WYWH and Animals are masterpieces but DSOTM sucks". My fav Magma is their first, but really couldn´t ever deny greatness of MDK. Üdü Wüdü is not my big favorites, but really can also understand in that people who love it.
|
Posted By: Tendiwa
Date Posted: April 10 2020 at 15:52
I didn't know K.A, Köhntarkösz and Emëhntëhtt-Ré are also a trilogy! The Theusz Hamtaahk trilogy was released in its entirety on the 2001 live album, but many people prefer other versions of the three parts. What are your favourite versions?
|
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: April 10 2020 at 17:31
| The debut, 1001 degrees and E-Re are the mightiest works they’ve done, IMO of course. All the others are mostly great too, but the 3 I mentioned........👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼 |
Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: April 10 2020 at 18:54
Those two I like a lot. Jazzy and just really good.
|