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Common prog misconceptions

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Printed Date: June 20 2019 at 08:27
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Topic: Common prog misconceptions
Posted By: BaldFriede
Subject: Common prog misconceptions
Date Posted: April 14 2019 at 17:50
This is supposed to be a thread about common prog beliefs that are dead wrong. I will give an example: The solo at the end of "A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers" from the album "Pawn Hearts" by Van der Graaf Generator is played by Robert Fripp on guitar. Wrong, it is played by Hugh Banton on organ who does a down to a T imitation of Robert Fripp, in style as well as in sound. Fripp does of course appear on the album, but he does not play that solo.

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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.



Replies:
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: April 14 2019 at 21:20
A somewhat common misconception is that Germany's Triumvirat are basically just a copy of ELP.
        This is utter nonsense, when you intently listen to T'rat's music, you discover that they are a group in their own right, unique, really, in the overall atmosphere or "vibe" they create with their music. Structurally, as well, they do many things their own way.


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If you have nothing, you have everything.


Posted By: 2dogs
Date Posted: April 14 2019 at 21:49
Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

A somewhat common misconception is that Germany's Triumvirat are basically just a copy of ELP.
† † † † This is utter nonsense, when you intently listen to T'rat's music, you discover that they are a group in their own right, unique, really, in the overall atmosphere or "vibe" they create with their music. Structurally, as well, they do many things their own way.


I have Illusions On A Double Dimple, Spartacus, The School Of Instant Pain in the Krautrock: Music For Your Brain box sets. Iím not mad keen on them (or ELP) but they never struck me as ELP copyists.

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"There is nothing new except what has been forgotten" - Marie Antoinette


Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: April 14 2019 at 21:54
"Shine On You Crazy Diamond" was sung not sung by Roger Waters, but by Roy Harper, a decition that Roger Waters later regretted.


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: April 14 2019 at 22:19
^ Hats Off to Roy Harper anyway ~



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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: April 14 2019 at 22:22
Steve Howe had a small penis.  False, and was one of the most well-endowed people in prog.




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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: April 15 2019 at 02:17
^ The Ultimate Misconception LOL

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Posted By: bender99
Date Posted: April 15 2019 at 05:30
Originally posted by Manuel Manuel wrote:

"Shine On You Crazy Diamond" was sung not sung by Roger Waters, but by Roy Harper, a decition that Roger Waters later regretted.


Pretty sure Roy sang the lead vocals on Have A Cigar, not Shine on... Wink


Posted By: Neu!mann
Date Posted: April 15 2019 at 05:31
Originally posted by Manuel Manuel wrote:

"Shine On You Crazy Diamond" was sung not sung by Roger Waters, but by Roy Harper, a decition that Roger Waters later regretted.


But Waters did sing Shine On... I believe you're thinking of Have A Cigar?


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"we can change the world without anyone noticing the difference" - Franco Falsini


Posted By: Odvin Draoi
Date Posted: April 15 2019 at 05:36
"Prog is a superior genre as it is more sophisticated and complicated"

This is true to a great degree (except for the superiority notion), yet composing a simple and effective song is just as valuable.

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"Latens, concludo, perpetua"


Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: April 15 2019 at 06:43
Originally posted by Neu!mann Neu!mann wrote:

Originally posted by Manuel Manuel wrote:

"Shine On You Crazy Diamond" was sung not sung by Roger Waters, but by Roy Harper, a decition that Roger Waters later regretted.


But Waters did sing Shine On... I believe you're thinking of Have A Cigar?
 
I also heard it's Have a cigar, wikipedia says it's Shine on. 


Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: April 15 2019 at 06:45
And another fact quite unknown is that , though Ian Anderson wrote the lyrics and main riff of Tull's music, it was Martin Barre who wrote the rest of the music, but was never credited for it.


Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: April 15 2019 at 06:58
Originally posted by bender99 bender99 wrote:

Originally posted by Manuel Manuel wrote:

"Shine On You Crazy Diamond" was sung not sung by Roger Waters, but by Roy Harper, a decition that Roger Waters later regretted.


Pretty sure Roy sang the lead vocals on Have A Cigar, not Shine on... Wink


Correct, and 'legend' has it that the main reason Harper sung on Cigar is because Waters had knackered his voice, giving it everything on SOYCD.

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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!


Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: April 15 2019 at 07:06
^ The Immaculate Misconception LOL

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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: April 15 2019 at 07:46
Originally posted by Manuel Manuel wrote:

"Shine On You Crazy Diamond" was sung not sung by Roger Waters, but by Roy Harper, a decition that Roger Waters later regretted.

Which, in many ways ... is just as well ... I think that Roy would have added a more cynic rendition of the words and make this a bit weirder and off kilter, and I think that Roger singing it makes it softer and not so harsh.

I doubt that Roy would have devoted that much time to PF ... considering that he even turned down touring with them more than once ... and likely because he didn't like the fan-boy atmosphere for all PF concerts since DSOTM ... and if Roy would do an acoustic set to open the show, every tomato and prairie patties in the neighborhood would find their way to him ... the respect found, by a PF audience in those days was ridiculous, right down a few years later when the fans even fought for a piece of the pig at the Anaheim Stadium!

Hats off is just about right ... he was not interested in somebody's circus!


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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: April 15 2019 at 07:47
Originally posted by Odvin Draoi Odvin Draoi wrote:

"Prog is a superior genre as it is more sophisticated and complicated"

This is true to a great degree (except for the superiority notion), yet composing a simple and effective song is just as valuable.

IF "prog/progressive" is just a song, might as well close down this discussion, the website and the idea of "progressive" anything and call it just bullsh*t!


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... none of the hits, none of the time ... now try finding your own mirror/art! www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: April 15 2019 at 07:56
Hey Mosh! We agree. Prog is sophisticated AND it is complicated and THEREFORE, from my frame of reference, it is superior. I have not been in a position to validate any other frame of reference.



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A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now)


Posted By: MortSahlFan
Date Posted: April 15 2019 at 08:16
Roger sang "Shine On You Crazy Diamond".


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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: April 15 2019 at 08:30
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Steve Howe had a small penis.  False, and was one of the most well-endowed people in prog.



How would you know? LOL


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When you list all the qualities that you despise and you realize you're describing yourself.


Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: April 15 2019 at 08:48
Originally posted by MortSahlFan MortSahlFan wrote:

Roger sang "Shine On You Crazy Diamond".
Yes, I read the wikipedia statement wrong. 


Posted By: Odvin Draoi
Date Posted: April 15 2019 at 09:08
Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

Hey Mosh! We agree. Prog is sophisticated AND it is complicated and THEREFORE, from my frame of reference, it is superior. I have not been in a position to validate any other frame of reference.



I know the word "moshpit", and If I guess the meaning of mosh correctly, you're addressing me just the opposite. LOL

My point was, being simple and effective/impactful/impressive/original etc.  is just as good as being sophisticated and complicated while also being consistent and intriguing; and it is even better than being sophisticated and inept.

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"Latens, concludo, perpetua"


Posted By: TCat
Date Posted: April 15 2019 at 10:17
My lesson I have learned from fact checking is that Wikipedia can be a good source of facts, however, it's usually best to check their facts, because, just like Prog Archives, regular people are writing these facts.  Use several sources, not just one.  Also remember, none of us are perfect, especially moi.

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What are you looking down here for?


Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: April 15 2019 at 12:53
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Steve Howe had a small penis.† False, and was one of the most well-endowed people in prog.




How would you know?†LOL
Must be a groupie!

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"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno


Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: April 15 2019 at 12:58
That Jon Anderson is some kind of Milquetoast. In fact, he's a normal guy who enjoys playing golf in Florida.

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"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno


Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: April 15 2019 at 14:56
Originally posted by Odvin Draoi Odvin Draoi wrote:

Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

Hey Mosh! We agree. Prog is sophisticated AND it is complicated and THEREFORE, from my frame of reference, it is superior. I have not been in a position to validate any other frame of reference.




I know the word "moshpit", and If I guess the meaning of mosh correctly, you're addressing me just the opposite.†LOL

My point was, being simple and effective/impactful/impressive/original etc.† is just as good as being sophisticated and complicated while also being consistent and intriguing; and it is even better than being sophisticated and inept.

No, actually Mosh was referring to Moshkito, the poster right before me, otherwise known as Pedro. Sure, in another time and in another mood, I might agree with you to one extent or another. Having a low post count as you do I wasn't sure if you might've been just trolling, but you seem genuine enough, so welcome to the forum. Anyway, what fans of different music styles value is different. Prog fans see an elegance in complexity. Jazz fans like complexity too, but may care very little about a Prog fan's excitement over innovative timbres. Many prog fans may enjoy good vocals and good lyrics, yet overdose on them on them very easily and are really more inclined toward instrumental work. Similarly, it may be true that there is something to be said for understatement and simplicity, but many Prog fans are not chasing that and get bored easily with minimal complexity no matter how eloquent (for instance, I appreciate the Stones for their eloquence and tasteful yet simple blues, but they are not going on my desert island list). So, yes, I consider Prog superior given what I value in music. Of course 'superior' is a subjective term in my use.

My apology to the OP, as I understand this post deviates from the point of the thread.


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A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now)


Posted By: Polymorphia
Date Posted: April 15 2019 at 15:07
Originally posted by Rednight Rednight wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Steve Howe had a small penis.† False, and was one of the most well-endowed people in prog.




How would you know?†LOL
Must be a groupie!
seen the south side of this guy, has he?

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https://dreamwindow.bandcamp.com/releases" rel="nofollow - My Music


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: April 15 2019 at 15:12
Originally posted by Polymorphia Polymorphia wrote:

seen the south side of this guy, has he?

'Scuse me while I kiss this guy ~




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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: April 15 2019 at 15:30
Originally posted by Rednight Rednight wrote:

That Jon Anderson is some kind of Milquetoast. In fact, he's a normal guy who enjoys playing golf in Florida.
 

Surprised he doesn't play in California. He must like humidity.


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Posted By: Odvin Draoi
Date Posted: April 15 2019 at 16:26
Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

Originally posted by Odvin Draoi Odvin Draoi wrote:

Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

Hey Mosh! We agree. Prog is sophisticated AND it is complicated and THEREFORE, from my frame of reference, it is superior. I have not been in a position to validate any other frame of reference.




I know the word "moshpit", and If I guess the meaning of mosh correctly, you're addressing me just the opposite. LOL

My point was, being simple and effective/impactful/impressive/original etc.  is just as good as being sophisticated and complicated while also being consistent and intriguing; and it is even better than being sophisticated and inept.

No, actually Mosh was referring to Moshkito, the poster right before me, otherwise known as Pedro. Sure, in another time and in another mood, I might agree with you to one extent or another. Having a low post count as you do I wasn't sure if you might've been just trolling, but you seem genuine enough, so welcome to the forum. Anyway, what fans of different music styles value is different. Prog fans see an elegance in complexity. Jazz fans like complexity too, but may care very little about a Prog fan's excitement over innovative timbres. Many prog fans may enjoy good vocals and good lyrics, yet overdose on them on them very easily and are really more inclined toward instrumental work. Similarly, it may be true that there is something to be said for understatement and simplicity, but many Prog fans are not chasing that and get bored easily with minimal complexity no matter how eloquent (for instance, I appreciate the Stones for their eloquence and tasteful yet simple blues, but they are not going on my desert island list). So, yes, I consider Prog superior given what I value in music. Of course 'superior' is a subjective term in my use.

My apology to the OP, as I understand this post deviates from the point of the thread.


Thanks for the clarification, and the kind and detailed reply. Star



This pretty much shows my incisive understanding and preferences in lots of things in general; encompassing artistic taste and valuation. From my perspective, they are on a par. Generally "ingenuous" approach of the artists call for some other elements like originality to rise in value, and "ingenious" pieces require coherence at least. Yet if they achieve to impress you, both ingeniousness and ingenuousness are in same value, for oneself; or rather, for myself; as you already said it is a subjective issue.

Also both can be combined in countless ways. Just by adding a fantastic invention or twist, an ingenuous artist might bring into being an ingenious work of art to some or great extent; or showing an ingenuous approach in the lyrics of an ingenious work of art might make people very impressed and arouse ineffable emotions,  etc.




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"Latens, concludo, perpetua"


Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: April 15 2019 at 18:19
Here's two:

In the court of the crimson king was the first prog rock album.  This is a statement that I still see. It's really just an opinion that people present as fact but just saying it doesn't make it so. For one thing many sources(including wikipedia)cite earlier bands and albums as progressive rock(the Moody Blues and Pink Floyd being just two examples)and another is that the Canterbury scene existed before that album. I think what people really mean is that it's the album that made prog official or the album that took prog out of the underground etc. Whether it's the first or not is highly debatable. 

Most prog fans are over 55 or old enough to have been into the genre in the seventies.  First of all "most" is hard to prove. What do we mean by most? 95 percent? Over 80 percent? Even if we say 75 percent that is probably not true as well as a generalization. Sure, it seems like most prog fans are around that age if we just go by who shows up at the festivals but maybe it's because most of them are retired or can afford to go on cruise to the edge or other festivals. The truth is that there are prog fans from all ages. There's even weirdos like myself who got into this music in the eighties! Imagine that. I could generalize and say Yes and ELP for the seventies fans, Marillion and Genesis and Rush for the 80's fans and Dream Theater and King's X(maybe?)for the 90's fans etc. That would be a bit of a generalization and a bit unfair and an exagerration even if there is a tiny bit of truth to that. Over all prog fans have different ways of finding out about this music and come in at different periods in their life and in different decades. 


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When you list all the qualities that you despise and you realize you're describing yourself.


Posted By: Fischman
Date Posted: April 15 2019 at 19:04
A normal guy that likes golf...

.... sounds like the very essence of milquetoast to me.



Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: April 15 2019 at 19:42
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

In the court of the crimson king was the first prog rock album.  This is a statement that I still see. It's really just an opinion that people present as fact but just saying it doesn't make it so. For one thing many sources(including wikipedia)cite earlier bands and albums as progressive rock(the Moody Blues and Pink Floyd being just two examples)and another is that the Canterbury scene existed before that album. I think what people really mean is that it's the album that made prog official or the album that took prog out of the underground etc. Whether it's the first or not is highly debatable.
 

Still? That makes no sense, as that album came out in '69, and before that, at a bare minimum, we got The Mothers' Freak Out! in '66, Floyd's Piper... and The Nice's Thoughts of Emerlist Davjack (ELP's oft-performed "Rondo" comes from this album) in '67, and Tomorrow's self-titled in '68.


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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: April 15 2019 at 20:30
Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

In the court of the crimson king was the first prog rock album.  This is a statement that I still see. It's really just an opinion that people present as fact but just saying it doesn't make it so. For one thing many sources(including wikipedia)cite earlier bands and albums as progressive rock(the Moody Blues and Pink Floyd being just two examples)and another is that the Canterbury scene existed before that album. I think what people really mean is that it's the album that made prog official or the album that took prog out of the underground etc. Whether it's the first or not is highly debatable.
 

Still? That makes no sense, as that album came out in '69, and before that, at a bare minimum, we got The Mothers' Freak Out! in '66, Floyd's Piper... and The Nice's Thoughts of Emerlist Davjack (ELP's oft-performed "Rondo" comes from this album) in '67, and Tomorrow's self-titled in '68.

You're right. It makes no sense but people still seem to think that. Still as in people continue to say it even after it's been more or less disproven.

However, I will say that Tomorrow, despite having a future Yes member in Steve Howe were a psych band and imo not really even proto prog. That doesn't mean they weren't good just that I don't hear much other than just pure psych in their music. A better example, imo, would be Family.


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When you list all the qualities that you despise and you realize you're describing yourself.


Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: April 15 2019 at 21:14
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

In the court of the crimson king was the first prog rock album.  This is a statement that I still see. It's really just an opinion that people present as fact but just saying it doesn't make it so. For one thing many sources(including wikipedia)cite earlier bands and albums as progressive rock(the Moody Blues and Pink Floyd being just two examples)and another is that the Canterbury scene existed before that album. I think what people really mean is that it's the album that made prog official or the album that took prog out of the underground etc. Whether it's the first or not is highly debatable.
 

Still? That makes no sense, as that album came out in '69, and before that, at a bare minimum, we got The Mothers' Freak Out! in '66, Floyd's Piper... and The Nice's Thoughts of Emerlist Davjack (ELP's oft-performed "Rondo" comes from this album) in '67, and Tomorrow's self-titled in '68.

You're right. It makes no sense but people still seem to think that. Still as in people continue to say it even after it's been more or less disproven.

However, I will say that Tomorrow, despite having a future Yes member in Steve Howe were a psych band and imo not really even proto prog. That doesn't mean they weren't good just that I don't hear much other than just pure psych in their music. A better example, imo, would be Family.

I think it's been firmly established that East of Eden released their debut before KC as well. I don't think anyone really thinks KC produced the first prog album. What they did was popularize prog and start a whole new revolution and that's why ITCOTCK is considered as the big bang of prog.


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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: April 15 2019 at 21:19
To simplify things, I do consider ItCotCK as the first prog album. I know it's not accurate... actually not true. But since the creation of the genre was a process, an evolution, and music widely considered prog doesn't always have all the elements usually asociated with prog (actually, there's no true concensus about which characteristics make prog, and there are many bands that some cosider prog and others don't), it's actually very difficult, or just about impossible to choose the real first prog album. So, I'm just fine by considering Crimson's debut as the first one, more as a turning point.


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: April 15 2019 at 21:27
It's amazing how much prog owes to Psychedelic rock.



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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: M27Barney
Date Posted: April 16 2019 at 00:25
Its a little known fact that Steve Howe used the shadow of his erect penis to calculate the height of the great pyramid of cheops...

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Play me my song.....Here it comes again.......


Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: April 16 2019 at 03:28
Not sure if it's an urban legend or not: the guitar solo at the end of Kate Bush' Wuthering Heights is played by David Gilmour.


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Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.


Posted By: M27Barney
Date Posted: April 16 2019 at 04:23
Thought that was Fripp?

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Play me my song.....Here it comes again.......


Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: April 16 2019 at 04:30
On the single those are credited:

- Paul Keogh / guitars
- Alan Parker / guitars
- Ian Bairnson / guitars




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Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.


Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: April 16 2019 at 04:31
It seems it was Bairnson. No Gilmour and no Fripp.


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Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.


Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: April 16 2019 at 07:54
[QUOTE=Atavachron]
Steve Howe had a small penis.  False, and was one of the most well-endowed people in prog.


LOLLOLLOLHandshakethanks for a good laugh first thing in the morning---I think you were thinking of Rabin


Posted By: M27Barney
Date Posted: April 16 2019 at 11:06
Phil Collins cant be that well endowed. His wives all fancied having it off with interior decorators etc...

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Play me my song.....Here it comes again.......


Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: April 16 2019 at 11:14
Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

Phil Collins cant be that well endowed. His wives all fancied having it off with interior decorators etc...
 

When one's bank account is as well-endowed as Phil's, whatever else is an afterthought. LOL


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Posted By: Fischman
Date Posted: April 16 2019 at 11:22
The major misconception among non-prog fans is that prog is all egghead music, purely for showing off instrumental or compositional chops, and inherently devoid of actual artistry or emotional content.  


Posted By: jamesbaldwin
Date Posted: April 16 2019 at 15:18
Proto-prog misconception.

Ringo solo on The End (Abbey Road) was not a real solo.

Ringo didnt want to do a solo, so Paul and John and George, with George Martin, 
removed instruments from the arrangements during the mixing, 
so we can hear almost only the drums played by Ringo.

Anyway, Ringo was a good drummer (listen to I Feel Fine, Rain, A Day in The Life, Come Togehter)


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"Happiness is real only when shared"


Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: April 16 2019 at 21:07
Originally posted by Fischman Fischman wrote:

The major misconception among non-prog fans is that prog is all egghead music, purely for showing off instrumental or compositional chops, and inherently devoid of actual artistry or emotional content.††


Indeed the emotion thing. There's lot's of prog songs I find utterly emotional... and mostly because of prog's characteristics, being able to elaborate a melody in a way a pop/rock act wouldn't do.


Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: April 17 2019 at 04:20
Originally posted by jamesbaldwin jamesbaldwin wrote:

Anyway, Ringo was a good drummer (listen to I Feel Fine, Rain, A Day in The Life, Come Togehter)
Clap
I would add Ticket To Ride to that list.
 
Which brings me to another misconception that Lennon said Ringo wasn't even the best drummer in The Beatles, apparently it was Jasper Carrott.


Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: April 17 2019 at 22:08
Originally posted by jamesbaldwin jamesbaldwin wrote:

Proto-prog misconception.

Ringo solo on The End (Abbey Road) was not a real solo.

Ringo didnt want to do a solo, so Paul and John and George, with George Martin, 
removed instruments from the arrangements during the mixing, 
so we can hear almost only the drums played by Ringo.

Anyway, Ringo was a good drummer (listen to I Feel Fine, Rain, A Day in The Life, Come Togehter)

So they tricked him into doing a "solo?" LOL I never heard that before. 

Ringo doesn't stand out for me as a drummer. I think his best drumming was on Back in the USSR. LOL Yes, that's obviously a joke. ;) I actually think Nick Mason is a much better drummer.


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When you list all the qualities that you despise and you realize you're describing yourself.


Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: April 17 2019 at 22:10
That the Mothers of Invention albums are Frank Zappa albums. I guess because Zappa owned all the rights that they became known as his? 

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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: April 17 2019 at 22:12
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

That the Mothers of Invention albums are Frank Zappa albums. I guess because Zappa owned all the rights that they became known as his? 

Let's put it this way. The Mothers of Invention albums are as much Frank Zappa albums as the Paul McCartney and the Wings were Paul McCartney albums which is to say they mostly are. 


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When you list all the qualities that you despise and you realize you're describing yourself.


Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: April 18 2019 at 06:58
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

That the Mothers of Invention albums are Frank Zappa albums. I guess because Zappa owned all the rights that they became known as his? 

Let's put it this way. The Mothers of Invention albums are as much Frank Zappa albums as the Paul McCartney and the Wings were Paul McCartney albums which is to say they mostly are. 

Jethro Tull albums are as much albums as are Ian ANderson solo albums. Let's put all Tull's albums on the ANderson page then. No, not the same. Zappa was the leader but the albums were released as The MOthers of Invention, NOT Zappa albums. I know why this happens but the Mothers albums were generally better than the Zappa solo albums because of the band IMHO


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Posted By: PROGMAN
Date Posted: April 18 2019 at 09:50
Misheard lyrics in Peter Gabriel's songs

Games without Frontiers doesn't say She's So Popular (even fooled me for years)


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CYMRU AM BYTH


Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: April 18 2019 at 10:20
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

So they tricked him into doing a "solo?" LOL I never heard that before. 

Ringo doesn't stand out for me as a drummer. I think his best drumming was on Back in the USSR. LOL Yes, that's obviously a joke. ;) I actually think Nick Mason is a much better drummer.

"Ringo isn't even the best drummer in the Beatles." 


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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: April 18 2019 at 10:29
Originally posted by Odvin Draoi Odvin Draoi wrote:

Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

Hey Mosh! We agree. Prog is sophisticated AND it is complicated and THEREFORE, from my frame of reference, it is superior. I have not been in a position to validate any other frame of reference.



I know the word "moshpit", and If I guess the meaning of mosh correctly, you're addressing me just the opposite. LOL

My point was, being simple and effective/impactful/impressive/original etc.  is just as good as being sophisticated and complicated while also being consistent and intriguing; and it is even better than being sophisticated and inept.

There aren't many prog rock bands - at least the big name ones - that I would think of as sophisticated and inept.  Something like power/symphonic metal?  Yeah, maybe, especially Dragonforce.  Again JMO. The best prog is effective, impactful, impressive and original while also being sophisticated and complicated. Wink  Pretty much my favourite kind of music and though prog doesn't have a monopoly over this kind of music, at least I find it most frequently in prog.  It's the reason why I am not able to be genre agnostic though I try to keep an open mind.  I can't take more than a couple of minutes of country without getting bored, for instance.


Posted By: M27Barney
Date Posted: April 19 2019 at 00:53
Good job mate, a few minutes of country will give you a mild headache. Listen to more of it and your wife will shag your best mate and your car will explode...

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Play me my song.....Here it comes again.......


Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: April 19 2019 at 06:38
Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

Good job mate, a few minutes of country will give you a mild headache. Listen to more of it and your wife will shag your best mate and your car will explode...

LOLLOLLOL


Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: April 19 2019 at 13:25
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

That the Mothers of Invention albums are Frank Zappa albums. I guess because Zappa owned all the rights that they became known as his? 

Let's put it this way. The Mothers of Invention albums are as much Frank Zappa albums as the Paul McCartney and the Wings were Paul McCartney albums which is to say they mostly are. 

Jethro Tull albums are as much albums as are Ian ANderson solo albums. Let's put all Tull's albums on the ANderson page then. No, not the same. Zappa was the leader but the albums were released as The MOthers of Invention, NOT Zappa albums. I know why this happens but the Mothers albums were generally better than the Zappa solo albums because of the band IMHO

I didn't say that about Ian Anderson. Anyway, some of the albums were  credited to "Frank Zappa and the Mothers of Invention" and not just MOI. Frank was the leader and without him there really was no band or at the very least it would not be the same.  Since you mentioned Tull, no there is no Tull without Ian but I see that as being somewhat different anyway. Technically speaking I do agree that a band listing should be separate in some cases than a solo listing. For FZ and MOI though it doesn't make much difference(at least to me)and it would be silly imo to have a separate listing for FZ and Moi unless they did albums without Frank and I don't think they did. So the way they have it on progarchives(Zappa solo and MOI mixed together)is perfectly fine by me. 


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When you list all the qualities that you despise and you realize you're describing yourself.


Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: April 20 2019 at 11:23
Originally posted by 2dogs 2dogs wrote:

Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

A somewhat common misconception is that Germany's Triumvirat are basically just a copy of ELP.
        This is utter nonsense, when you intently listen to T'rat's music, you discover that they are a group in their own right, unique, really, in the overall atmosphere or "vibe" they create with their music. Structurally, as well, they do many things their own way.


I have Illusions On A Double Dimple, Spartacus, The School Of Instant Pain in the Krautrock: Music For Your Brain box sets. Iím not mad keen on them (or ELP) but they never struck me as ELP copyists.
Clone? No.  Influenced by Emerson.  Certainly.  And for me that was used as slur but I like what they did. Big smile  And I might add I have nothing wrong with that.  They both made great music to my ear.


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