Most underrated prog band?
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Topic: Most underrated prog band?
Posted By: GingerFox
Subject: Most underrated prog band?
Date Posted: May 28 2019 at 23:41
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What do you think is the most underrated prog band? ------------- Where my country at? |
Replies:
Posted By: Chaser
Date Posted: May 29 2019 at 01:44
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This one's been done before and it always prompts a debate about the meaning of "underrated". I would say it's an artist who hasn't received the recognition they deserve in the prog community or the wider music press, as compared to other artists, based on the quality of their music. Two obvious ones for me are Gentle Giant and Van der Graff Generator. They are not considered "big six" and yet, for me, their output was often better than some of the big six. ------------- Songs cast a light on you |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: May 29 2019 at 02:35
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Have to echo Chaser's sentiments about how this thread will likely rest upon what the OP means by 'underrated' etc  Off the top of my head, Argent, Greenslade, Gentle Giant, VDGG, Banco, Colosseum, Atomic Rooster, Happy the Man, the Nice and Beggars Opera certainly warrant more kudos from within PA and while we're at it, probably deserved greater material success in terms of sales methinks? Funny thing is, although hardly lacking for love on PA, one band who probably never shifted nearly as many units as the likes of ELP, Yes, Genesis and Pink Floyd (even when Prog was topping the album charts in the early 70's), are....King Crimson
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Posted By: M27Barney
Date Posted: May 29 2019 at 03:58
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Focus. ------------- Play me my song.....Here it comes again....... |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: May 29 2019 at 04:37
| Triumvirat-even on PA, they don't get the attention they deserve. |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: May 29 2019 at 04:43
nobody's bashed the band either
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presdoug wrote:Posted By: M27Barney
Date Posted: May 29 2019 at 06:08
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They got unfairly called "ELP tribute band" bit like Starcastle and Yes... ------------- Play me my song.....Here it comes again....... |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: May 29 2019 at 06:19
I don't remember them being called that. And who said that is wrong because as far as I know a tribute band does covers. They are not even an ELP clone, there are many more things in their music than ELP, let's be serious. |
Posted By: handwrist
Date Posted: May 29 2019 at 06:47
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Gilgamesh. IMO their self titled is one of the best albums ever made. ------------- http://handwrist.bandcamp.com" rel="nofollow - My Music http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=9405" rel="nofollow - PA Page |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: May 29 2019 at 07:26
You're doing your best to change that.
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: May 29 2019 at 07:26
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Hi, I can not think of anything is under-rated, although I think way too many bands are over rated simply because of the "fans", not the music itself. As above, the sentiments that GG and VdGG had a much better and stronger output, of the "big six", and it doesn't mean anything to so many folks here because they like a song or two only and won't even consider the other material as they have no ear for it. The obvious one, though, is, as mentioned also, KC ... over the course of their history, they should probably rate at the highest level ... but that sentiment only became apparent 10 or so years ago ... because of the darling definition of "progressive music" that had nothing to do with music! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: May 29 2019 at 07:52
| It's hard to pick one band as the most under-rated, I guess it depends a lot on personal taste. Many great bands are not mentioned, while other mediocre ones are listed very high, but as I said, it mostly depends on personal choices. |
Posted By: miamiscot
Date Posted: May 29 2019 at 07:55
| Le Orme |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: May 29 2019 at 07:57
oh, here we go again.
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Posted By: TenYearsAfter
Date Posted: May 29 2019 at 08:01
| Solaris from Hungary, top notch prog, so overlooked. |
Posted By: TerLJack
Date Posted: May 29 2019 at 08:19
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I have always had a soft spot for Ambrosia's first two records. Great vocals and instrumentation. Impeccable production... They are often dismissed because of their later move to commercialism and hit singles, but those first two records (and a little of the later ones too!) had some strong progressive tendencies.
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Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: May 29 2019 at 11:21
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If a band's big enough to get called underrated, are they really underrated? ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: Friday13th
Date Posted: May 29 2019 at 14:55
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The Mercury Tree! They play eclectic/avant-prog with microtonal tuning. SO UNIQUE. I just saw them play live last month and they're currently capping off their US tour. It boggled my mind that they could replicate their last album with 17 EDO guitars. This song "Vestments" is like Discipline King Crimson meets Harry Partch. Best new prog band around IMO |
Posted By: grantman
Date Posted: May 29 2019 at 16:04
| FM band from Toronto,Canada sure they made some so-so records but first 3 records BLACK NOISE,Surveillance and CITY OF FEAR great stuff akin to RUSH |
Posted By: jayem
Date Posted: May 29 2019 at 16:31
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A whole lot of bands ! Either they didn't tour enough, were not "referential" enough, appeared too lately... The ones who'll tour the most will maximize their chances to be remembered... ------------- http://www.digger.ch/?lang=en" rel="nofollow - Support mine-clearing ! https://bandcamp.com/machinechance/?lang=en" rel="nofollow - bandcamp collection |
Posted By: tempest_77
Date Posted: May 29 2019 at 18:07
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IMO, Coheed and Cambria is incredibly underrated. I think that their music has lots of great emotion, and their composition is really quite excellent. Their 2003 album In Keeping Secrets of Silent Earth: 3 especially I feel is an underrated masterpiece, but lots of their other albums, notably the Good Apollo I'm Burning Star IV albums and the Afterman albums, are very good as well. I think people don't like them because of all of it is pretty emo, but I don't mind it at all personally. ------------- I use they/them pronouns (feel free to ask me about this!) Check out my music on https://tempestsounds.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - my bandcamp ! |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: May 29 2019 at 20:04
I'll probably get laughed at for saying this but I think it's Yes. Sure they are household names(and then some)in prog circles but outside of prog circles they are probably only known by a handful of classic rock fans as that band who did owner of a lonely heart and roundabout and not much else. Yes deserve to be as well known outside of prog circles as Rush and Pink Floyd(and Genesis)but sadly they aren't so for me they are the most under rated. Even among younger prog fans I don't think they are as well known as they should be. I bet there are a lot of guys in their twenties who have music(probably downloads or vinyl records since young folks don't buy cds )by Between the Buried and me, Mastodon, Opeth, Tool, Porcupine Tree, Coheed and Cambria, the Mars Volta and even Pink Floyd, Rush and King crimson but no Yes.
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Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: May 29 2019 at 20:57
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Probably the ones that haven't been rated at all And to AFlowerKingCrimson, Yes? Really?  -------------  https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: Friday13th
Date Posted: May 29 2019 at 21:01
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Yes only has the highest rated album on this website! So underrated!
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Posted By: progmatic
Date Posted: May 29 2019 at 21:09
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Pulsar, Sensations' Fix, Anekdoten, Solaris, Sinkadus. Most underrated band overall: tie between dada and Concrete Blonde. ------------- PROGMATIC |
Posted By: Machinemessiah
Date Posted: May 29 2019 at 21:17
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For me it is Maxophone... Although there appear to be only one album (or so) -their homonym- I find it highly enjoyable and well rounded: both the italian and the english lyrics versions alike; since this is an album where all songs are, IMO, of premium quality (something rare in albums from less well known bands, outside big six, etc., and a hallmark on the contrary); some are headbangable in the prog sense, some very delicate, with the finest classical guitar extracts and a falsetto which I yearn in more prog bands, so well employed (among other reasons, why I like Yes so much); others highlight the symphonic side, with horns and the like with a reference there to Bartok's Concerto for orchestra. But, when talking RPI, I miss it being mentioned more frequently alongside the Premiatas and the likes. |
Posted By: Jaketejas
Date Posted: May 29 2019 at 21:20
| siLLy puPPy is right! Look at all the new bands on Progfreak that need reviewing. There ARE some good ones. |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: May 29 2019 at 23:24
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I'll probably get laughed at for saying this but I think it's the Beatles.....they are so great, not sure why everyone does not like them -------------   
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: May 30 2019 at 00:30
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nowadays ELP serious answer though might be Par Lindh Project . The first three albums are all unique symphonic prog albums chock full of superb musicianship and just about everything you could want from the genre. However for some reason they never get the same attention as say Anglagard which is ironic considering that Parl Lindh was the prime mover in creating The Swedish Art Rock Society from which Anglagard came. In terms of the seventies I would go for Be Bop Deluxe. Bill Nelson - was there really ever a more talented guitarist and song writer? Everyone should do themselves a favour and grab the deluxe edition of Sunburst Finish.
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Posted By: FXM
Date Posted: May 30 2019 at 03:47
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Jade Warrior - I have had for some time the four Island Records releases which were reissued by Eclectic Discs in 2006 and thought they were quite good. But it is only recently that I got their first three releases (S/t, Released and Last Autumn's Dream) plus two that were recorded in 1973 but not released until 1998 (Eclipse and Fifth Element) and thought that there were really excellent - much better than the instrumental Island Records albums. Fruupp are another underrated band who released four great albums.
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Posted By: handwrist
Date Posted: May 30 2019 at 04:01
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What about Sloche? Maybe Maneige? All those Quebec bands deserve much more recognition. ------------- http://handwrist.bandcamp.com" rel="nofollow - My Music http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=9405" rel="nofollow - PA Page |
Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: May 30 2019 at 10:18
I was thinking Jade Warrior myself. So eclectic and diverse, ever before the Island recordings, yet never sounding like anything but Jade Warrior. My personal favorite is Last Autumn's Dream. Tony Duhig is also an underrated guitarist - just listen to him on the Horizen album and the song Death of Ra from Way of the Sun. ------------- The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty" |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: May 30 2019 at 10:47
I understand they're influential, but I'm just not "into them." ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: May 30 2019 at 10:47
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It's mostly subjective of course and it depends on how you compare it with other bands. Below is a somewhat random list (some already mentioned earlier) that I feel are underrated, not necessarily with the "Big Six," but more or less, with other comparable bands. Admittedly, some of these are probably underrated simply because they only made one album, or had a short lifespan. Ascorbic Acid Apogee Pentwater Flamborough Head Citizen Cain Conqueror (Italian band) ExCubus Galleon Eyestrings Eccentric Orbit Versus X Efecto Et Cetera (Canadian band) Alex Carpani Blue Effect (aka Modry Efekt) Zombi Yezda Urfa The Watch Visible Wind The Underground Railroad Triumvirat The Tangent Tale Cue Solaris Simon Says Sebastian Hardie Runaway Totem RPWL Renaissance Refugee Rainbow Theatre Quella Vecchia Locanda Pollen Paatos The Othello Syndrome Nexus (from Argentina) Mikromidas Mezquita Malibran Magenta Little Atlas Liquid Scarlet Kaipa IZZ Steve Hillage solo Grobschnitt Greenslade Glass Hammer Kevin Gilbert Finch England Egg Echolyn Devil Doll Cell15 Carpe Nota La Coscienza di Zeno Códice Cliffhanger Cheeto's Magazine Castle Canyon Cast Camera Chiara Cairo (American band, 1994-2001) Brighteye Brison Emmanuel Booz [for his Dans quel état j'erre album] Blue Mammoth Black Bonzo Birds and Buildings Bijou Bigelf Beardfish Bacamarte Babylon Aurora Lunare Atoll Astra Asia Minor Ars Nova (Japanese band) Argos Anyone's Daughter Anima Mundi Anima Morte Alpha Lighting System Alco Frisbass Alphataurus Airlord Airbag Spock's Beard (seriously!)
------------- ---------- i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: May 30 2019 at 10:51
Yeah, PLP deserves better. And while the albums are all "symph," they're certainly not cookie cutter. Veni Vidi Vici is significantly different (better?) than Mundus Incompertus. RIP Magda. ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: May 30 2019 at 11:31
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Awesome list. Some random thoughts:
Mémoires Incubussiennes was a pleasant surprise, indeed.
Great band. Bill Noland is a really cool guy, too.
One of my faves (as if you can't tell). Their Goblin-meets-John Carpenter-meets Tangerine Dream sound is exactly what the doctor ordered. They maintain a loyal following, but it should be bigger. And they need to make a new album. But they do make solo albums as well, so I'm just grateful for the body of work they've thus far released. Everyone should dig these guys.
It is such a huge bummer they never recorded a follow-up. One of my favorite one-shot bands. Laura Basra, where did you go?!
Another forgotten band from the same neck (and time) of the woods is Supernova. I don't think they ever got past the one album, and it's our loss. Great female vocals, keys, drums, and 5-string bass. No lead guitar! I'll also add Chile's Matraz, whose Gritaré enjoyed many, many hours in my player for many months when it was new.
Definitely. I saw these guys perform nearly 20 years ago and they were awesome. Their OOP double CD Alba Y Ocaso is a gem.
Say what? ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: M27Barney
Date Posted: May 30 2019 at 12:39
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Aye. Par lindh so unknown, when I ordered his entire back catologue from the web. Each one was signed by the man himself... ------------- Play me my song.....Here it comes again....... |
Posted By: ProfPanglos
Date Posted: May 30 2019 at 16:37
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I will go with Nektar. Unless I'm talking to progressive rock knowledgeable types, no one has heard of them. I think Remember the Future is an absolutely brilliant, top-tier prog album. And, I think Albrighton has a unique guitar style.
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Posted By: TCat
Date Posted: May 30 2019 at 18:15
I totally agree. "Spidermilk" is one of my favorite releases this year. I am very impressed with their music! ------------- https://ibb.co/8x0xjR0" rel="nofollow">  |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: May 30 2019 at 18:47
Still more under rated than King Crimson. There I said it.
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: May 30 2019 at 18:51
You could say the same about any band who is bubbling just under. Not just Nektar but also Camel and probably even Gentle Giant.
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: May 31 2019 at 00:22
Veni Vidi Vici is the true 'classic' in my eyes but those other 2 are certainly not far behind in quality. I briefly met Par Lindh when I bought the Gothic Impressions CD at the 25th ELP Anniversary convention in Birmingham UK (1995). I paid for the album and walked away from table he was sitting at then I heard 'Don't forget the your CD!' I had paid but left the CD on the table. Scatter brained me LOL!
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Posted By: Marcin
Date Posted: May 31 2019 at 04:51
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SBB Their 'Memento z banalnym tryptykiem' and 'Karlstad live' albums should be well know by all prog fans. Worth checking if you still don't know them. ------------- 
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Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: May 31 2019 at 05:13
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So the most underrated progbands are: Gentle Giant, Van der Graaf
Generator, King Crimson, Yes.... Those are great suggestions but have we forgotten all about Genesis and
Pink Floyd? I mean these are bands that should be loved by
everyone in the world but not eveyone in the world loves them  ------------- 
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Posted By: AliceBaldieDaughter
Date Posted: May 31 2019 at 07:04
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Embryo are most definitely a very underrated band. Their name should be mentioned much more often. |
Posted By: dougmcauliffe
Date Posted: June 02 2019 at 15:41
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I really hate the word underrated. But some bands I wish were talked about more Camel Focus Kansas Nektar
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Posted By: dougmcauliffe
Date Posted: June 02 2019 at 15:43
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And let me throw Spocks Beard in the mix as well! I think snow is one of the best concept albums, of course snow live is far superior to the studio album V is also one of my all time favorites
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Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: June 03 2019 at 05:13
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One of my favourite prog bands that doesn't get a lot of love around here is Lifesigns. Their debut is comfortably in my top 10 prog albums. http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7890" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7890
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Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: June 03 2019 at 12:54
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The Red Masque. the only band formed after 2000 that I really like.
no-one but Friede and me ever mentions them. singer Lynette Shelley is a
member of PA under the name "redvelvetone" -------------  A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: foregonillusions
Date Posted: June 03 2019 at 20:53
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In the world of progressive metal, I feel Sieges Even is overlooked. A Sense of Change and The Art Of Navigating By The Stars are great albums--especially the latter. Those albums are certainly better than most of Dream Theater's output after Awake. |
Posted By: foregonillusions
Date Posted: June 03 2019 at 20:56
For what it's worth, I see them mentioned a lot by younger prog fans. So I don't think they're terribly underrated.
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Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: June 04 2019 at 04:33
I only heard 1 album of them (I have forgotten which one), and I was seriously underwhelmed. I even asked myself why they were in the archives at all ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: June 04 2019 at 04:53
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Bands that are not mentioned are unrated rather than underrated. |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: June 04 2019 at 05:51
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I think to be underrated it needs to me a band/artist with quite an extensive discography (say at least four albums) that has gone under the radar or is strangely unloved by potential listeners that are disposed to enjoy the kind of music they got to offer. The earlier mentioned Embryo is a perfect example (I think their fan base is growing though) while King Crimson or Yes isn't. I'd tempted to suggest the brilliant zeuhl-fusion of Zao. -and perhaps a little on the side of this whole discussion but I'd say the whole british jazz and & jazz-fusion scene and the many great projects initated by Ian Carr, Don Rendell, Michael Garrick, Joe Harriot, Trevor Tomkins (many of those PA-relevant Nucleus being the most famous) and a few more - are unfairly ignored and even more overlooked and underrated than other european jazz-artists.
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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: June 04 2019 at 06:40
Trevor Tomkins was the excellent drummer on the second album of Gilgamesh, "Another Fine Tune You've Got Me Into". His drumming was very jazzy on that album. -------------  BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: June 04 2019 at 07:04
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^Indeed. And that was something like the 35th album he contributed to.
If you haven't heard those stunning The Don Rendell / Ian Carr Quintet
(with Trevor on drums obviously) late sixties pre-fusion jazz albums such as Dusk Fire, Change Is, Live... and more - they are highly reccomended (just like many of those 70's albums). -------------
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Posted By: miamiscot
Date Posted: June 04 2019 at 09:21
| Anyone's Daughter also comes to mind!!! |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: June 04 2019 at 11:06
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Perhaps Guru Guru, the chameleons of rock. Almost every album is in a different style. ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: June 04 2019 at 11:08
love them, but in the grand scheme of things they did very well for themselves, moving over 120,000 albums of prog at the end of the 1970s and early 1980s. Nothing to sneeze at, even if they are given somewhat short shrift here on a prog website. |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: June 04 2019 at 11:09
| on PA, definitely Nightwish |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: June 04 2019 at 11:44
Very true...all of the known bands have plenty of ratings here at PA and are rated fairly imho...but many are not mentioned often or don't have a lot of ratings here on the board.....some of those might be underrated in that respect. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: M27Barney
Date Posted: June 04 2019 at 12:15
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Nightwish is a good call... ------------- Play me my song.....Here it comes again....... |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: June 04 2019 at 12:40
I disagree. They are famous and get a lot of praise from listeners enjoying symphonic metal and power metal. |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: June 04 2019 at 13:41
true but I specifically stated that on PA they are underrated. Obviously they are a huge group commercially worldwide. Considering that their latest studio album was released in 2015 and I was the first collaborator to review it 4 years later, I would say if they aren't underrated then they are just plain ignored
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: June 04 2019 at 13:47
When I say underrated, which I very rarely would, I mean that something is held in lower esteem/ valued less than I think it should be. One might think that many things are underknown, and that may be because one feels that it had been underrated by some and so the word never spread. I like to think more in terms of specific claims being made about music. If someone says that every band that came before The Flower Kings could not be considered Prog or progressive, and that The Flower Kings Back In The World Of Adventures should be considered the first Progressive Rock album and is the most unique album in music history, then I would say that they have underrated that which came before TFK and overrated TFK's importance. The following is a review of King Crimson's In the Court of the Crimson King. It does not prove a great illustration, but it gets some things wrong, so I would argue that this one star review underrates the album.
So what's a Prog band that could get the golden diaper award (a bum wrap) as very underrated in terms of it not getting the credit it deserves from many people from a verifiable objective standpoint? I don't know. I can think of lots that I believe certain individuals have underrated as claims and arguments have been made that lacked validity/ showed ignorance/ were inaccurate. ------------- Just a fanboy passin' through. |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: June 04 2019 at 14:23
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^Man, that review of ITCOTCK was sure harsh! I don't agree with any of it. Thanks for posting! ------------- I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!! |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: June 04 2019 at 14:29
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^Sounds like a troll.....but who knows? But one bad rating doesn't not make any meaningful difference anyway...so....? ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Machinemessiah
Date Posted: June 04 2019 at 15:14
Hey thank you guys! this entry is already delivering for me . I don't want to go too much off-topic, but I've been searching for a long time here on PA for the best "electronic" band to my liking, being a neofite at this genre; Tangerine Dream not being quite there for me with its long soundscapes; I was looking something more on the lines of Gong - A Sprinkling of Clouds from You album (by the way, what a great keyboardist Tim Blake is! and what a great song; I found some other stuff from him -New Jerusalem- but not as good, IMO). Being recommended twice on this thread, I checked Zombi's first, Cosmos, and it surprised me: Serpens, what a great song! and Andromeda is a gem. I did a shallow listen to the newer albums but they didn't come across as good to me. I think we could say Zombi is a grain less underrated now
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Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: June 04 2019 at 15:28
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^check out: Sensations Fix Portable Madness for some more kinda space rockin' progressive electronics (the remastered version sound great) -------------
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Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: June 04 2019 at 16:08
Maybe because most people don't find them to be progressive metal. That's why I mentioned the other two metal subgenres, they make more sense to me describing their music. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: June 04 2019 at 16:11
If underrated at PA is synonymous with being one of the most ridiculed bands in PA, then I agree with Nightwish. ----------------------------------------------------- EDIT: By the way, that In the Court of the Crimson King review might be a troll, but then that troll is me. I wrote it with some humorous intent to illustrate how I use the term underrated. An individual or a group can underrate or overrate something, and I often discern that when false or dubious claims are made and specious arguments are used as justification. ------------- Just a fanboy passin' through. |
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: June 04 2019 at 16:33
Nice band, got a couple of their albums, Lynette's art is great. ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: M27Barney
Date Posted: June 05 2019 at 12:14
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The pan-heads do spend an inordinate amount of time disparaging classic symphonic progressive rock....I blame the parent's... ------------- Play me my song.....Here it comes again....... |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: June 05 2019 at 12:37
This is hilarious, very philosophical and dada and gaga at the same time, and I don't think it contains any serious rating whatsoever.
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Posted By: M27Barney
Date Posted: June 06 2019 at 01:00
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What is the point of a spoof review of a classic? Unless an attempt by the pan-heads to bring down the average rating of an album they do not like? ------------- Play me my song.....Here it comes again....... |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: June 06 2019 at 05:16
Some pots and pans-heads love spatulas (in the US, an implement used in cooking). It hasn't brought down the rating and it is not intended to do so. If one were to assume that such a silly review were written with serious intent, it would be underrating the album as it is fallacious/ erroneous. No cheap diner spatula was used to percussive disco intent in that album, the alleged spatula was in actuality quite an expensive electro-mechanical, polyphonic spatula -- the Spatulatron*. While not my favourite King Crimson album -- I tend to favour Lizard) --, I like In the Court of the Crimson King, and that review only exists in this thread. For those who haven't read through the posts here, like I said "I wrote it with some humorous intent to illustrate how I use the term underrated". *Incidentally, the Spatulatron was most famously employed at John Lennon's "Strawberry Pancakes Forever" breakfast restaurant in Brooklyn and had also been utilised by The Moody Blues line-cook in "Fillets of Future Passed". ------------- Just a fanboy passin' through. |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: June 06 2019 at 07:09
Ooops. Proper reading is an underrated skill...
 |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: June 06 2019 at 08:57
Proper clear writing is also an underrated skill... Well, I rate it highly, I'm just not terribly good at it. I just buried my explanation at the bottom of another post I made here about Nightwish. Mea culpa for being misleading. Quoting said review after writing "The following is a review of King Crimson's In the Court of the Crimson King. It does not prove a great illustration, but it gets some things wrong, so I would argue that this one star review underrates the album" is very misleading. So, then I would argue with myself that I not only misrepresented In the Court, but Prog, music and reality. I did quite like "...unless Prog is short for microwave oven. In fact, it's not even music at all cause it's just noise, and music cannot be noise... It doesn't have notes, just noises, and noise is not musical so this is not music." And "[those who appreciate it] are not cool and they are all liars since they are not even real people and this music is not cool, and it is not even music, so how could it be cool and how would be people who do not exist in the truest reality that is in my world even know? It makes no sense." It makes no sense, indeed. ;) Anyway, I should have mentioned in that post that I wrote it as an example of the kind of underrating that I was writing about. If just one person has underrated the significance/ merit of an album, then I would argue that it is underrated. Most everything we know is underrated and overrated by some in some respect. I took some grief when I claimed that http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=70767" rel="nofollow - the Beatles get too much credit , but I would also claim that some don't give enough credit to the Beatles. It was a rather underhanded title since I wasn't so much interested in the Beatles at the time, but instead I intended to use it as a springboard to discuss notions of overratedness and underratedness. It was quite trollish. When one brings out terms such as overrated and underrated, it does always lead to discussions about the terms themselves, which is important to understand where people are coming from. Side-note: my biggest issues tend to be surrounding terms such as liberal, socialist, communist and various "phobia" terminology -- by liberal I often mean free-thinking / open-minded, and when I talk of a phobia I mean a psychological condition that involves an irrational fear and is detrimental to the person with the phobia and is not synonymous with bigotry, though said person may also be a bigot. But I digress. Underrated is a term that can be used in a variety of ways, but when I use it, I like to refer to specific claims where people are demonstrably and evidentially not giving something sufficient merit commonly out of ignorance and flawed, invalid reasoning. In this case I concocted my examples with The Flower Kings and King Crimson, ridiculous though they were, but I have seen various bands and albums being underrated by individuals making false or dubious claims and making specious arguments as justification for their estimations of worth/ merit. I know that I've done it before as well. I expect when most people say something is underrated or overrated, they just mean that they like it or more or less than it seems that the majority do. I don't enjoy Close to the Edge much, and I seem to be in a minority here, but that doesn't mean that I think others are overrating it or that I'm underrating it. I recognise its significance, and I'm fine with people praising it, despite not personally being of the religious persuasion. But, to use an extreme example, if someone claims that Close to the Edge should be considered great by music historians as the first symphonic album, then I will say that they got it wrong and have overrated its significance. If someone claimed that that album in not important to progressive rock, and Yes should be drummed out of Prog Archives, then I will argue that that person has underrated the album and the significance of the band. I like to look at specific examples, and I have come across dubious, and downright wrong, claims to, and arguments for, greatness for the Beatles, and some who I say demonstrably have unfairly diminished the merit as well. ------------- Just a fanboy passin' through. |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: June 06 2019 at 09:18
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I agree, in fact the only solid and properly verifiable content of "x is underrated" is "y rates x lower than me", which is one reason why I don't think this label makes much sense - other than giving another excuse for talking about some stuff we like that maybe not everyone likes that much, which is what 90% of this forum is about anyway. In this spirit I'm rather happy that in this thread even Yes qualify as underrated, because that comment has ultimately taken the last remaining shimmer of an illusion out of the idea that the concept could actually mean anything sensible. I think it was AFlowerKingCrimson, so congratulations for that posting! |
Posted By: irrelevant
Date Posted: June 06 2019 at 09:26
I love both of their albums! The second one doesn't seem to get as much love (esp. on PA), but I think it may even be better. One of my favourite bands these days. ------------- https://gabebuller.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - New album! http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385 |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: June 06 2019 at 11:08
I prefer the second album too ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: June 06 2019 at 16:58
RIP Alan  ------------- Soldato of the Pan Head Mafia. We'll make you an offer you can't listen to. http://bandcamp.com/jpillbox" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp Profile |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: June 07 2019 at 20:36
Quite honestly? All of them. ------------- I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!! |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: June 08 2019 at 02:19
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Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: June 08 2019 at 05:46
That's different. "The Beatles weren't very popular" is a statement about the opinion and behaviour of many people that can be measured by sales etc. When AFlowerKingCrimson writes that "Yes are underrated" it basically means that "a number of people like Yes much less than me", which I'd think is correct, except that for whatever band some people can say this and be right.
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Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: June 08 2019 at 06:28
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^You missed the point. Although AFlowerCrimson writes that "Yes are underrated" and that feels pointless to most of us - it doesn't mean "Embryo is underrated" can't be a sensible and meaningful statement. -------------
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Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: June 08 2019 at 06:53
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So a number of people like Embryo less than you then? Anyway, I see your point, but I wouldn't use the "underrated" term for that. The issue with "underrated" is that this terms implies "I can rate them correctly but those who underrate them cannot". It comes with a smell of objectivity that is hard to justify; really as hard for Embryo as for Yes. "More people should listen to Embryo" or "I think there's more to discover in Embryo's music than most people do" are so much better.
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Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: June 08 2019 at 11:36
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^Either one has to be allowed to state things that one believes to be correct - based on say... knowledge and experience - or I don't really see much point in visiting a discussion board at all. I know that on this forum "Embryo is underrated" is a more informed thing to write than "Yes is underrated". If someone disagrees with me, well I don't mind (and I know I'm right). -------------
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Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: June 08 2019 at 15:55
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What's the difference then between "I believe it's so good that it should be rated higher" and "I like it a lot, and many don't"? |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: June 08 2019 at 16:45
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Posted By: Fischman
Date Posted: June 08 2019 at 19:16
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Fates Warning Lifesigns
Agusa Aghora Soen |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: June 08 2019 at 19:22
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I think that one can put weight into the words by arguing well, coming up with original views and observations etc. The statement "Embryo is underrated" on its own is quite unaffected by whatever information and experience is behind it. (Information and experience by the way are not enough; there are people who use all their information and experience just to confirm whatever view they have held for the last 25 years.)
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: June 09 2019 at 05:20
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Maybe going off on tangents here, it's a late night... While one should avoid making an argument from authority/appeals to authority, I commonly would trust a person's opinion more if I thought they had more experience when it comes to making their claims. I'd trust a neurosurgeon more to tell me which brain surgery option is better than asking an ice cream vendor, even if the ice cream vendor's arguments are really original (first we brain freeze you with loads of ice-cream, then we use a sugar cone as a shunt, squeeze in gelato...). A good opinion is a well-informed and well thought-out opinion. I would expect someone who knows lots of Krautrock, Jazz-Rock and psychedelic music to be able to better assess the merits of Embryo than someone who expresses opinions on that albums worth and knows very little similar music (quite often such people resort to apples and oranges comparisons to justify their claims). I've read reviews, I could link to one but I won't, that have claimed that an album is poor, overrated, and then compared it to music that wasn't even in the same category to make the argument, and clearly was not familiar with the style or had an appreciation of that kind of music. I would sooner value the opinion of someone who is well-informed when it comes to that kind of music, but that doesn't mean that I would necessarily accept their statements as valid (reasonable and rational). What matters most to me is that there's a good argument and evidence with relevant, acceptable and sufficient premises to back-up the person's conclusions when it comes to the merit. Just saying, "Embryo is underrated" would be pretty meaningless to me whomever said it. Underrated in what way? How would you back up that assertion? Both experienced and inexperienced people are prone to confirmation bias, and very experienced people can be so set in their ways that their opinions have become far too rigid. While I would be more likely to trust someone who has demonstrated experience, I would still want cogent arguments to back up those assertions. A neophyte might discover something that demonstrates to me that something has been undervalued or overvalued, and come up with a good,logical framework for an assessment, and someone who seems to have good experience listening to certain music might still not be very insightful, nor offer good reasons, and might have clear biases and factual errors that render their assessments to be useless. If someone says that x is overrated or underrated, I want to hear justification for the statement, and I want it to be clear how the term is being used. ------------- Just a fanboy passin' through. |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: June 09 2019 at 08:05
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Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: June 09 2019 at 10:51
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Saperlipopette: There's really not much disagreement between us when it comes to questions like whether experience and information are worthwhile, whom to trust when it comes to recommendations, and even that there are more or less let's say helpful or convincing evaluations of music. I even like Embryo (and actually I respect your music knowledge a lot). My point is just the term "underrated"; by using it you are basically stating that those who rate the band lower than you get it wrong, without any assessment why they're rating it lower, and probably without even knowing the vast majority who rates them lower and their reasons for it. Even if 99% of these fulfill your criteria for being uninformed ignorants, you are sl*g.ing off the remaining 1% wrongly and uselessly, because you could easily get your point across without doing that. Now obviously people do this all the time and it's not a crime, so go on doing it if you must. It won't stop me from checking out the supposedly underrated stuff, however I maintain that the statement ultimately doesn't say anything more than "many people like them less than I do". (Which in fact is quite something if said by somebody with musicality, authority, experience, intelligence, whatever.) Or actually it does, it also says "I want my statement to sound more authoritative than it would if I just referred to my taste". You could do without, really.
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Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: June 09 2019 at 12:17
Btw. Embryo wasn't even my suggestion, it was just a handy example. -------------
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Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: June 10 2019 at 04:43
Quite literally came here to say this, and mention those two exact bands. So, thank you   .------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Posted By: Spacegod87
Date Posted: June 13 2019 at 05:52
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Most prog bands are highly underrated.. But I guess the obvious answer would be Gentle Giant (although even they're mainstream compared to a lot of other prog bands) I would put Camel in the same boat as well.
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Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: December 22 2020 at 00:01
------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Posted By: iluvmarillion
Date Posted: December 22 2020 at 22:54
Gentle Giant is the obvious one, but in recent times definitely Spock's Beard who haven't received due recognition since Neal Morse left the band. Ryo Okumoto I would rate the best Mellotron player in the world today.
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