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Prog Research Survey

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Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Music Lounge
Forum Description: General progressive music discussions
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=120524
Printed Date: November 16 2019 at 16:32
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Prog Research Survey
Posted By: Mattone
Subject: Prog Research Survey
Date Posted: July 18 2019 at 05:49
Hi guys,
I am currently working on my master thesis on basically the contemporary conception of progressive music (it is a bit more complicated than that, but it is better to leave it on a vague level, for now). A section of my work will be dedicated on how progressive music fans contribute in the construction of a canon, and the questions in the survey I am linking to you will be of great help for me. Up to now I have received a decent number of surveys back, but it is still not enough to prove anything, so I need your help.

If you want to help, I beg you to answer at least to the mandatory questions of the survey (they are just 4-5), and please send the document to whoever you think might be interested in it.

Thank you so much!
Enjoy

LINK ---->  http://forms.gle/squbY6PK2bUeHx4w7" rel="nofollow - https://forms.gle/squbY6PK2bUeHx4w7 <---- LINK



Replies:
Posted By: miamiscot
Date Posted: July 18 2019 at 09:18
I just completed the survey. Fun.


Posted By: patrickq
Date Posted: July 18 2019 at 13:51
What degree are you working towards?


Posted By: Mattone
Date Posted: July 18 2019 at 14:11
Originally posted by patrickq patrickq wrote:

What degree are you working towards?
Master of Musicology. It that exists at all, I think it is the foreign equivalent of the degree I am about to get in Italy, after two years of master course in musicology and, previously, three of bachelor course in philosophy. I hope this is an appropriate answer.


Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: July 18 2019 at 14:17
I did the survey too.


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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta


Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: July 18 2019 at 14:29
I did it. Personally if it was my survey I would include things like "how did you get into prog?", 
"what bands first turned you onto prog?" and "when did you first discover prog?"(what decade) But then again I have a degree in sociology so these kinds of more social aspects interest me. :)

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Yes is for Rush fans who grew up.


Posted By: Mattone
Date Posted: July 18 2019 at 14:48
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

I did it. Personally if it was my survey I would include things like "how did you get into prog?", 
"what bands first turned you onto prog?" and "when did you first discover prog?"(what decade) But then again I have a degree in sociology so these kinds of more social aspects interest me. :)
Well, those aspects could be of some interest for me as well, but since I am more interested about the perception that fans have of prog, I focused more on questions about the music and less on questions that could bring the research close to the formation of a kind of "average progressive guy" profile. Since I am convinced that genres are created by audiences (and industry, and press and so on), I am interested in discovering which bands are considered to be the most representative of the genre by its audience, and on the base of which features. Then I will figure out a "provisory canon" of progressive music (based on these and other datas) and then analyze some tracks by a selection of those artists, to show how different those examples are. So what makes prog "prog", if the musical matter varies so much? Of course it is a choice made by the social agents mentioned above, but maybe there is something more, because up to now almost everyone of the 120 people that answered the survey agree that Igorrr is "closer to prog" than Banks (which of course I kind of expected). So there must be something about the music, as well. My task is to understand how this thing works, which is possibly the same as it works in other genres, but maybe in prog it is more evident because it is an extreme example. So I hope I will be able to say something interesting about the formation and negotiation of musical genres in general... or at least to say something that can show how unstable, variable and rich is the contemporary progressive situation.


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: July 18 2019 at 14:56
Submitted.



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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: July 19 2019 at 03:31
Done!

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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!


Posted By: patrickq
Date Posted: July 19 2019 at 04:43
Originally posted by Mattone Mattone wrote:

Originally posted by patrickq patrickq wrote:

What degree are you working towards?

Master of Musicology. It that exists at all, I think it is the foreign equivalent of the degree I am about to get in Italy, after two years of master course in musicology and, previously, three of bachelor course in philosophy. I hope this is an appropriate answer.
very interesting!


Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: July 19 2019 at 09:35
Sorted. That was fun, and I rather enjoyed that Vampillia vid.....

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In Lazland, life is transient. Prog is permanent.


Posted By: RandomChange
Date Posted: July 19 2019 at 10:16
Done!

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Facebook.com/randomchangeband


Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: July 19 2019 at 10:21
Enjoyable exercise! Some interesting new music, too.

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The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"


Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: July 19 2019 at 10:43
Done that. Bit busy at the moment or I'd fill it in several times with contradictory answers representing my views on the subject on Monday morning, Thursday afternoon and Sunday evening after a fortifying glass of turps.

p.s. Some of us actually think Igorr is pretty good. I know I'm not the only one...

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Soldato of the Pan Head Mafia. We'll make you an offer you can't listen to.
http://bandcamp.com/jpillbox" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp Profile


Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: July 19 2019 at 10:54
I did it too. I think I would have asked different question had I done such a survey, but that's normal. I even learned something; I had not heard of "djent" yet, and to be honest the specific feature of it goes on my nerves after a while


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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.


Posted By: Snicolette
Date Posted: July 19 2019 at 11:38
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Sorted. That was fun, and I rather enjoyed that Vampillia vid.....
Me too, thought they were a lot of fun!


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"Into every rain, a little life must fall." ~Tom Rapp


Posted By: Mattone
Date Posted: July 19 2019 at 12:05
Originally posted by Mascodagama Mascodagama wrote:

Done that. Bit busy at the moment or I'd fill it in several times with contradictory answers representing my views on the subject on Monday morning, Thursday afternoon and Sunday evening after a fortifying glass of turps.

p.s. Some of us actually think Igorr is pretty good. I know I'm not the only one...
 

Ahah yeah, things are quite unstable for everyone I guess. That's the main reason I am doing this.

I actually love Igorrr, that's for sure ;) (and Banks and Vampillia too, by the way).

Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

I did it too. I think I would have asked different question had I done such a survey, but that's normal. I even learned something; I had not heard of "djent" yet, and to be honest the specific feature of it goes on my nerves after a while

I am glad you were able to discover some new music, though apparently you won't take much advantage of that, at least for now. I can understand the point, though I am pretty much into that kind of music as well.
And yes, of course everyone would have asked different questions, it also depends on the specific things you are doing research on. In facts, every single "how much do you agree" question is about a topic that I have discussed earlier in the thesis ('earlier' compared to where I am going to comment the results of this survey).

Originally posted by Snicolette Snicolette wrote:

Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Sorted. That was fun, and I rather enjoyed that Vampillia vid.....
Me too, thought they were a lot of fun!

Looks like many people listened to the videos from start to finish or something like that, which makes me feel almost guilty since I randomly chose long tracks... but at least if someone finds those videos fun, I can chill out a bit. 

Actually Vampillia are totally out of this world. I saw them live with Alcest last year and they were unbelievable. Don't miss them if they'll ever come to your city!



Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: July 19 2019 at 12:28
Completed. I had to change my answer when it came to most canonical bands after I reread and saw that it was asking for “active” bands. I went with King Crimson, Henry Kaiser, and Daniel Crommie & Glyn Havard. The last was a real stretch when it comes to active. I didn’t even think of Steven Wilson or IQ. I figured Anglagard to be inactive. Jade Warrior has promised a new album for far too long to be active.

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A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now)


Posted By: micky
Date Posted: July 19 2019 at 19:06
submitted.. and yeah..  you'll find my take likely the exception than the rule. 

you really do need to hammer home the difference.. and brother it is a vast one. between prog and progressive. Two very difference musical worlds.. and with two sets of fans with some overlap but as I've seen over the years on sites like this. Not as much overlap as one might think.


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[QUOTE=Nogbad_The_Bad]Christ you talk a lot of crap.[/QUOTE]


Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: July 19 2019 at 20:36
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

submitted.. and yeah..  you'll find my take likely the exception than the rule. 

you really do need to hammer home the difference.. and brother it is a vast one. between prog and progressive. Two very difference musical worlds.. and with two sets of fans with some overlap but as I've seen over the years on sites like this. Not as much overlap as one might think.

As an example at my last few years at Progday I saw very few people wearing Rosfest shirts there and Rosfest had been well established by then. For me Progday is a progressive or progressive rock festival while Rosfest was(and is)a prog rock festival(and at times prog metal). I don't think many prog metal bands have played at progday. There are certainly fans like myself who like both but many seem to feel the need to take sides. 


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Yes is for Rush fans who grew up.


Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: July 19 2019 at 20:53
Completed.



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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...


Posted By: The Stygian Heresy
Date Posted: July 19 2019 at 23:06
I enjoyed your survey, Mattone.  Best wishes on your continued education in this important department!


Posted By: Mattone
Date Posted: July 21 2019 at 04:55
We reached 215 entries and so today I have closed the survey and started to analyze the datas (which are very interesting). I think that I will translate at least the paragraph concerning this stuff in English, and as soon as I will do it, I will post it here, somehow, so if you are interested in the results you will be able to know something at least about these specific topics.

Thank you all so much!


Posted By: micky
Date Posted: July 21 2019 at 11:02
far out man... and way to go forum. Beer Are those 215 strictly from this thread, this forum or did you cast a wider net for entries?

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[QUOTE=Nogbad_The_Bad]Christ you talk a lot of crap.[/QUOTE]


Posted By: Mattone
Date Posted: July 21 2019 at 11:10
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

far out man... and way to go forum. Beer Are those 215 strictly from this thread, this forum or did you cast a wider net for entries?
I am pretty sure that quite a lot of entries came from this forum, but I also spammed it on various Facebook groups related to prog and such, which also helped a lot.


Posted By: micky
Date Posted: July 21 2019 at 11:16
ahh.. cool. Here have a clappie Beerand a damn good American craft that will knock you on your ass if you aren't careful (an 11.0r).  Beer Though I must say.. much like the US..  Italy sure upped their game when it comes to beers. Yeah the wine is great but that is a little too high class for me. You all have some good craft beer sh*t going on there.

Anyhow.. Look forward to seeing what you came up with


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[QUOTE=Nogbad_The_Bad]Christ you talk a lot of crap.[/QUOTE]


Posted By: Sentient Ear
Date Posted: July 21 2019 at 13:35
Originally posted by Mattone Mattone wrote:

We reached 215 entries and so today I have closed the survey and started to analyze the datas (which are very interesting). I think that I will translate at least the paragraph concerning this stuff in English, and as soon as I will do it, I will post it here, somehow, so if you are interested in the results you will be able to know something at least about these specific topics.

Thank you all so much!

Looking forward to seeing the results and wishing you all the best on your thesis! 

I agree with others who mentioned enjoying the music in the survey. How did you end up choosing the samples for this?




Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: July 21 2019 at 16:51
I'd have taken part or at least written a comment but didn't have time the few days this was open. I had something to say on it but can't properly reconstruct it not being able to see the survey anymore.


Posted By: micky
Date Posted: July 21 2019 at 18:27
^ shame you missed that. I think you would have found it interesting, considering your tastes, based upon the questions he was asking and what I suspect he was driving at in asking them.

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[QUOTE=Nogbad_The_Bad]Christ you talk a lot of crap.[/QUOTE]


Posted By: Mattone
Date Posted: July 23 2019 at 05:04
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

ahh.. cool. Here have a clappie Beerand a damn good American craft that will knock you on your ass if you aren't careful (an 11.0r).  Beer Though I must say.. much like the US..  Italy sure upped their game when it comes to beers. Yeah the wine is great but that is a little too high class for me. You all have some good craft beer sh*t going on there.

Anyhow.. Look forward to seeing what you came up with

Thanks and yes, we do have some good beers, though I am mostly a fan of Paulaner and Guinness. But, by the way, where I live (near the border with Austria) they produce a beer that I also enjoy, which is called Forst and maybe is not so well known outside the area, but I love it (maybe there's a little bit of patriotism here). 

Originally posted by Sentient Ear Sentient Ear wrote:

Originally posted by Mattone Mattone wrote:

We reached 215 entries and so today I have closed the survey and started to analyze the datas (which are very interesting). I think that I will translate at least the paragraph concerning this stuff in English, and as soon as I will do it, I will post it here, somehow, so if you are interested in the results you will be able to know something at least about these specific topics.

Thank you all so much!

Looking forward to seeing the results and wishing you all the best on your thesis! 

I agree with others who mentioned enjoying the music in the survey. How did you end up choosing the samples for this?



Thank you and well, the samples were chosen basically because 1. I always thought Igorrr was a great example of progressiveness, though he is not part of the canon; 2. These days I am very much into Banks since she just released a great album and I needed something plausibly far from prog to mention in this survey, so she was the first one that came into my mind; 3. I saw Vampillia live recently and I was blown away. Nothing to add about Big Big Train, I guess.

Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

I'd have taken part or at least written a comment but didn't have time the few days this was open. I had something to say on it but can't properly reconstruct it not being able to see the survey anymore.

That's quite a shame, man: every observation might be very useful. Yet we can still discuss those thoughts here. I am sorry about the very short life of the survey, but actually I was a bit in a hurry because this was not in my plans (it is not an ethnographic research, but I thought that such a survey could enrich the chapter about the reception of progressive music and the construction of a canon, since there is not too much bibliography on that matter) and so I had to close it as soon as a decent goal was achieved, to be able to go on with the thesis. By the way the number of entries was pretty much slowing down to the point of death, and so I thought that the results of my spamming activity were coming to an end. 


Posted By: micky
Date Posted: July 23 2019 at 09:25
Originally posted by Mattone Mattone wrote:


Thanks and yes, we do have some good beers, though I am mostly a fan of Paulaner and Guinness. But, by the way, where I live (near the border with Austria) they produce a beer that I also enjoy, which is called Forst and maybe is not so well known outside the area, but I love it (maybe there's a little bit of patriotism here). 

 

Guinness? Have you tried the Foreign Extra Stout or perhaps that is just a American thing marketed to the power drinkers here who think anything less than a 7.0'r is nothing more than flavored water. ehhh..
 

I'll keep an eye out for that... there is a great place near Ponte Milvio that I love has a killer selection of Italian beers from all over the country.  Perhaps they might have that.


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[QUOTE=Nogbad_The_Bad]Christ you talk a lot of crap.[/QUOTE]


Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: July 23 2019 at 09:28
If you could make the survey still visible, without possibility to actually take part, I may comment on it; although whether what I say is worthwhile and interesting is up for anybody's guess... (and it may be somewhat critical).


Posted By: Mattone
Date Posted: July 24 2019 at 12:03
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

Originally posted by Mattone Mattone wrote:


Thanks and yes, we do have some good beers, though I am mostly a fan of Paulaner and Guinness. But, by the way, where I live (near the border with Austria) they produce a beer that I also enjoy, which is called Forst and maybe is not so well known outside the area, but I love it (maybe there's a little bit of patriotism here). 

 

Guinness? Have you tried the Foreign Extra Stout or perhaps that is just a American thing marketed to the power drinkers here who think anything less than a 7.0'r is nothing more than flavored water. ehhh..
 

I'll keep an eye out for that... there is a great place near Ponte Milvio that I love has a killer selection of Italian beers from all over the country.  Perhaps they might have that.

Never heard of that, unfortunately. But I am no expert, just kind of an occasional enthusiast Wink

Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

If you could make the survey still visible, without possibility to actually take part, I may comment on it; although whether what I say is worthwhile and interesting is up for anybody's guess... (and it may be somewhat critical).

I have tried to do so, but the problem with that is that either I re-open the submission (which would alter the datas I am currently studying), or I have to make the results public, which is a big problem since there was an optional answer in which I asked to write down an email address if interested in getting the result of the research, once finished. Of course I can't leave those 100+ addresses there for all to see, so for now I have no choice but to copy-paste down here the original questions.

Section 1 - Introduction
How old are you?
How long have you been listening to prog on a regular basis, approximately?
If you had to list 3 to 5 active bands that you think are the most representative of the progressive scene, which ones would you choose?
If you had to list 3 to 5 distinctive features of progressive music, which ones would you mention?

Section 2 - How much do you agree with the following statements?
True progressive music has died around 1976-1977
Progressive music was mainly an English phenomenon
Progressive music is now mainly an English and American phenomenon
Progressive music has something to do with counter-culture
Progressive music is often reactionary
Progressive music has got something that puts it on a 'higher' cultural level
Neo-progressive music (i.e. Marillion, IQ, Pallas, Pendragon, Spock's Beard, The Flower Kings...) is mainly derivative of symphonic progressive rock (no judgement of value intended here)
Neo-progressive music is the only true heir to the spirit of the original progressive movement
Besides neoprog and progressive metal, there are other forms of contemporary progressive music
Progressive music is not suitable for wide audiences
Only musicians can fully understand the value of prog
Progressive dance music has nothing to do with prog
Djent has nothing to do with prog
Post rock has nothing to do with prog
Fusion has nothing to do with prog

Section 3 - Features
Let's assume that the following list of features was often associated with the definition of progressive music. Which ones would you pick?
Technical complexity
Long songs
Unconventional song structures
Odd time signatures and polyrhythms
Concept album
Connections with classical andj azz music
Visionary lyrics
None of them

Section 4 - Take a listen to the following songs (I am sure some seconds here and there will be enough for you to judge) and answer to the questions about their supposed progressiveness

1. 'Cheval' by Igorr VS 'Gimme' by Banks
I know you probably hated both. But which one would you consider closer to being prog?

2. Demo song by Vampillia
Level of progressiveness from 1 to over9000

3. 'East Coast Racer' by Big Big Train
Level of progressiveness from 1 to over9000

If you would like to add whatever you could not specify before, now it is the time. Otherwise, skip this question.

If you are interested in reading the output of this study (which will actually focus on so much more stuff concerning prog) leave your email here and, once finished, I'll try to send it to you (only Italian version confirmed up to now).

YOU ARE DONE!




Posted By: micky
Date Posted: July 25 2019 at 06:54
Originally posted by Mattone Mattone wrote:

Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

Originally posted by Mattone Mattone wrote:


Thanks and yes, we do have some good beers, though I am mostly a fan of Paulaner and Guinness. But, by the way, where I live (near the border with Austria) they produce a beer that I also enjoy, which is called Forst and maybe is not so well known outside the area, but I love it (maybe there's a little bit of patriotism here). 

 

Guinness? Have you tried the Foreign Extra Stout or perhaps that is just a American thing marketed to the power drinkers here who think anything less than a 7.0'r is nothing more than flavored water. ehhh..
 

I'll keep an eye out for that... there is a great place near Ponte Milvio that I love has a killer selection of Italian beers from all over the country.  Perhaps they might have that.

Never heard of that, unfortunately. But I am no expert, just kind of an occasional enthusiast Wink



I think I did read somewhere it was something they might have brewed just for export here to the States. Marketed perhaps not to occasional enthusiast but good old fashioned American power drinkers who see anything that comes in a 4 pack as like many to a broad in a low cut red dress and black heels...woo hoo.. bring it on. Looks and taste are optional at that point LOL


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[QUOTE=Nogbad_The_Bad]Christ you talk a lot of crap.[/QUOTE]


Posted By: Lewa
Date Posted: July 27 2019 at 12:20
Hi. Thank you for publishing the questions! Very interesting.

Just saw this and was disappointed that the survey was closed.

Also, I like Igorrr a lot and actually think it is prog LOL -


Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: July 27 2019 at 17:11
Thanks for posting the questions. I'll write something but you'll need some patience.



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