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Music today

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Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Polls
Forum Description: Create polls on topics related to progressive music
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=120552
Printed Date: November 20 2019 at 22:28
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Topic: Music today
Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Subject: Music today
Date Posted: July 21 2019 at 17:36
I always hear... the music today is so bad. It was so much better when I was growing up.

I think music today is much better than when I grew up. More choices and more talent. What do you think?





Replies:
Posted By: TCat
Date Posted: July 21 2019 at 18:05
I think there is excellent music in both cases. 

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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: July 21 2019 at 18:08
It depends on the genre. Personally I think pop music is probably the worst it's ever been and most of it is just going around in circles(especially rap and hip hop). Alternative rock I'm not so sure about. I think it started to go downhill around 1998/99. I haven't really kept up with most forms of pop music so I'm not the best judge I suppose. Other than prog I don't really pay that close attention but there are some good bands currently out there(non prog). I would say most of the better ones are probably in the indie genre(not sure if alternative is still a thing like I mentioned). I really like a lot of 90's bands and in fact sort of took a break from prog for about five years or so during that decade and was really into bands like Live, Smashing Pumpkins, PJ and the rest of the whole grunge scene but then at some point things just sort of went south when bands like Creed came along. Then even worse(if anything) were bands like Nickleback and it didn't get any better. 

Anyway, not a big deal to me but shouldn't this be in the general music discussion forum?


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Yes is for Rush fans who grew up.


Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: July 21 2019 at 19:48
Originally posted by TCat TCat wrote:

I think there is excellent music in both cases. 
 

this is correct. even if things don't resonate with me as much as the "classics" do, I can't pretend it's all sh*t. 


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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.


Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: July 21 2019 at 20:24
The preponderance of the past outweighs the scant selections of the present.

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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...


Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: July 21 2019 at 20:57
I think music of the past collectively is better. The reasons are numerous such as there are so many other ways to express artistic creativity these days. The internet has created a wealth of visual arts unthinkable 40 years ago and the demise of the record labels which nurtured and directed bands talent is practically non-existent. I do however believe things go in cycles and there will inevitably be a renaissance of musical expression that captures everyone off guard. When? Who the bleep knows but hopefully in our life times :)  

That doesn't mean that there isn't some great music out there these days though. It just seems so scattered. There are no artists that everyone can relate to any longer. No generational bonds through music. On the other side of the coin, the internet has allowed us to explore the nooks and crannies of the past thus giving obscurities new life so in a sense the modern day artists are competing against all of music history and those are some serious odds against them.


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https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy


Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: July 21 2019 at 21:03
There is great music every decade as far back as I've listened, roughly 1940. Today's great, yesterday was great. It's a smorgasbord, not a competition. 


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"nobody else could ever know
the part of me that can't let go..."


Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: July 22 2019 at 00:47
If we're talking prog (and I assume we are as the thread isn't in the General Music discussions forum) than, no. Prog was obviously better years ago.

As for mainstream music, there's always been a lot of crap out there and ones perspective on just how bad it is changes as you get older. I'm inclined to say that mainstream pop music was generally probably sightly better when I was a kid. I use the 'relative genius' principle. These days, someone who plays guitar, writes their own songs and sings them is looked upon as being extremely talented, even a genius in the case of performers like Ed Sheeran, but that kind of very basic level of musical talent was a prerequisite to having a music career at all, 40+ years ago.

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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: July 22 2019 at 01:11
I will say generally music today, pop and art, often seems more diverse and interesting than in the past.   But 'better', no I'm afraid not.   Just take a glance at this week's Top 40.   Ouch.   And it's not so much a matter of Pop music as it is style--  Jonas Bros., Justin Bieber, Taylor Swift, Sam Smith, Katy Perry.   I like pop music and I like hiphop but this is the stuff you hear coming out of a fourteen year-old's Bluetooth.  

As for progressive music, rock seems a quaint antique, jazz a novelty, the relevant singer/songwriter seriously endangered, and we keep circling the wagons with our avant-garde and retro symph.




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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: handwrist
Date Posted: July 22 2019 at 01:34
There have been studies done on complexity of rhythms, melodies, harmonies and words across the decades and popular music (not just pop music) has been on a downward spiral towards retardation. I was born in the late 80s, so I was always late to the party - the music that was popular in my youth was already formulaic to the max and so I found treasure on previous decades (1995 and below). The future described in Idiocracy is not that far away, and music is as affected as everything else. I find it harder and harder to tolerate the absolute garbage that is frequently played at commercial establishments (that weird and disgusting mix of pop, rap, hip hop and electronica). It's just tasteless consumer products, in a musical format.

There's clearly still good music being produced, but in general I think most releases lack the inspiration, the spirit, of earlier times. And certainly our culture seems incapable of producing another truly original genre or scene. Everything is rehash of a rehash. One of the reasons I like vaporwave is because, unlike those retro bands who emulate the sound of the 80s, vaporwave is straightforward and tells you upfront the music is repackaged and manipulated and is about making you nostalgic for an era long gone.

So in short, yeah, music (as pretty much everything else) is worse today and will be worse tomorrow.


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http://handwrist.bandcamp.com" rel="nofollow - My Music

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Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: July 22 2019 at 01:59
Originally posted by Man With Hat Man With Hat wrote:

Originally posted by TCat TCat wrote:

I think there is excellent music in both cases. 
 

this is correct. even if things don't resonate with me as much as the "classics" do, I can't pretend it's all sh*t. 

x 3.

Good music is also timeless anyway.


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Lying on the hill; crawling over the windowsill into your living room...


Posted By: patrickq
Date Posted: July 22 2019 at 02:56
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

There is great music every decade as far back as I've listened, roughly 1940. Today's great, yesterday was great. It's a smorgasbord, not a competition.
Well put. I’d vote for the “equally good” option. Now if we’re talking favorite vs. better, I’d go with the past,


Posted By: essexboyinwales
Date Posted: July 22 2019 at 04:20
For me, what's in the charts is almost universally awful, but in terms of music I buy and listen to, be it prog, metal, prog metal, etc., there is some absolutely wonderful stuff coming through year after year.  Most of my favourite albums have come from this century I would say....



...and part of that is due to the fact that I didn't get into alot of the older stuff until later in my life, and I think an awful lot of people who still think that the best music (prog) comes from the early days, were there when it happened....


Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: July 22 2019 at 04:34
I see the temptation in voting for the past, not that much temptation to vote for the present. But then voting for the past would be unfair to all those who put out great stuff these days, and they do exist!

Also, not only music changes, also quality criteria change. Hard to compare really. Let's not forget most people are initiatied to music between the age of 10 and 20, together with first love and all that, and most will carry around a preference for the stuff they got into at that time for the rest of their live. "The past" vote in this poll will be strongly biased by this, although kudos to the 10-20 years old of today who get into Pink Floyd, King Crimson and all the rest!


Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: July 22 2019 at 05:04
How long ago is "the past"?


Posted By: Meltdowner
Date Posted: July 22 2019 at 05:11
Answering the poll question and since I was born in the mid-90's, I think music is better now. I mean, I find more music I like better from today than from the previous two decades. Maybe for the fact that underground artists can distribute their music more easily but also because of the resurgence of vinyl, many try to make concise records instead of filling up CD's.


Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: July 22 2019 at 07:25
Originally posted by patrickq patrickq wrote:

Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

There is great music every decade as far back as I've listened, roughly 1940. Today's great, yesterday was great. It's a smorgasbord, not a competition.
Well put. I’d vote for the “equally good” option. Now if we’re talking favorite vs. better, I’d go with the past,


Yeah, the favorite/better wording is a good point too. If it was favorite, I'd have to admit there is some truth to the embedded nature of songs from our youth being extra special. But it doesn't have to lock one there in stasis. I purposefully try to listen to things before my youth as well as today, and these songs can be great too. Right now, I'm on an old jazz kick which is so much fun.

I realize now this was a prog poll as someone pointed out. I was answering as if it were a general poll, so my response is off base anyway now.  LOL


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"nobody else could ever know
the part of me that can't let go..."


Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: July 22 2019 at 07:47
The music industry in not what it was when I was growing up. The days or the rich rock star, started by Elvis, is now gone, and the artists of today simply do it for the love of music, so it's very hard to compare. Before, they could make a living off it, so they would put all their time and energy into it. Now, most artists, specially music which doesn't fit the popular trend, have to have a 9 to 5 job and write and perform their music on their spare time. With sites like Spotify, where you can just pay a small yearly fee and listen to everything you want, hardly anybody buys music anymore, and the artist gets paid next to nothing for their music. Of course there's still some people who buy the music, but is a very small percentage of those who listen to it, making music sales very insignificant to what they used to be. That doesn't mean the artists of today are not as talented as the ones of previous decades, but the circumstances are so different, that indeed affect the quality and nature of their music.   


Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: July 22 2019 at 07:50
Thanks for all the great comments. I’m 59 and grew up during the age of new wave, disco, and punk. Prog was losing steam and radio, as it always is, sucked. Radio may have been better in a larger town, but in my area the only good show was the weekly broadcast of The King Biscuit Flower Hour. Beyond that you could only hear the top 40 drivel (disco was the worst) or the constant rotation of Zeppelin, Stones, The Who, etc. I guess I’m in the minority so far about this topic, but I feel the talent and choices available to me now are better than when I was growing up. Some of my favorite new prog acts, which I love as much, or more than, the old prog bands, include… Bubblemath, Frost*, Haken, Tauk, Riverside, The Aristocrats, Thank you Scientist, Freak Kitchen, IZZ, Echolyn, Nova Collective, Big Big Train, Lonely Robot, Sanguine Hum, and Thieves’ Kitchen. And I am always searching and finding new groups of all genres that amaze me now more than ever. This site is one such place to find new discoveries. So, thanks again for all the awesome comments and I’m glad to be here.


Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: July 22 2019 at 08:02
50-50 for me but I voted now since it had the least votes. LOL

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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...



Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: July 22 2019 at 08:29
Originally posted by Manuel Manuel wrote:

The music industry in not what it was when I was growing up. The days or the rich rock star, started by Elvis, is now gone, and the artists of today simply do it for the love of music, so it's very hard to compare. Before, they could make a living off it, so they would put all their time and energy into it. Now, most artists, specially music which doesn't fit the popular trend, have to have a 9 to 5 job and write and perform their music on their spare time. With sites like Spotify, where you can just pay a small yearly fee and listen to everything you want, hardly anybody buys music anymore, and the artist gets paid next to nothing for their music. Of course there's still some people who buy the music, but is a very small percentage of those who listen to it, making music sales very insignificant to what they used to be. That doesn't mean the artists of today are not as talented as the ones of previous decades, but the circumstances are so different, that indeed affect the quality and nature of their music.   
 

And the fact that some of today's artists do it part time, and create music that rivals say Close to the Edge, is amazing.  


Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: July 22 2019 at 08:36
Originally posted by Manuel Manuel wrote:

The music industry in not what it was when I was growing up. The days or the rich rock star, started by Elvis, is now gone, and the artists of today simply do it for the love of music, so it's very hard to compare. Before, they could make a living off it, so they would put all their time and energy into it. Now, most artists, specially music which doesn't fit the popular trend, have to have a 9 to 5 job and write and perform their music on their spare time. With sites like Spotify, where you can just pay a small yearly fee and listen to everything you want, hardly anybody buys music anymore, and the artist gets paid next to nothing for their music. Of course there's still some people who buy the music, but is a very small percentage of those who listen to it, making music sales very insignificant to what they used to be. That doesn't mean the artists of today are not as talented as the ones of previous decades, but the circumstances are so different, that indeed affect the quality and nature of their music.   
 
True, but sadly there were also artists around in the 60s and 70s who didn't make a living from their music due to unscrupulous agents and managers (Badfinger being one example).


Posted By: TCat
Date Posted: July 22 2019 at 09:04
There are some great comments and arguments here.  I still believe that there are great artists today and yesterday, so I find music I like in all eras.  Now, I am referring more to progressive of course, because pop music and radio music has always been mostly bad, but  I feel that music on the radio was much better and included more styles during the 60s and 70s.  I grew up not knowing what progressive music was, but I still had exposure to it on the radio, and that is what got me interested in the complexities of it all.  I look back now and find that almost all of the music I purchased on vinyl, 8-track and cassette was progressive and I didn't even know it.  I loved and owned most of the albums from Pink Floyd, Kansas, Blue Oyster Cult, UK, Steely Dan, Genesis, Yes, and so on, and it wasn't until 1980 when I was asked what groups I liked and named these off, the person responded by saying "Oh so you like progressive rock."  Pretending I knew what she was talking about I said, "Ehrmmm.... Sure!"  So what I am saying is, at least where I grew up, that I got my knowledge of progressive rock from the radio, however, I didn't realize it then.  I don't think this would happen nowadays, at least on commercial radio.  Now all that music sounds the same.  And let's not even start about how God-awful country music has become lately.  It was bad before, but now it is just automated drivel where all of the crap sounds the same and people gobble it up like candy.

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Posted By: hellogoodbye
Date Posted: July 22 2019 at 09:27
I'm still curious of good music, from today or from the past. so both.


Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: July 22 2019 at 10:22
Music overall: better in the past

Prog music: about the same level of quality, past and present (maybe the 1980s being an exception)


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Aardvark, aardvark? I smell dryer sheets.
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Posted By: Fischman
Date Posted: July 22 2019 at 13:04
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

I always hear... the music today is so bad. It was so much better when I was growing up.

I think music today is much better than when I grew up. More choices and more talent. What do you think?



I find music today to be pretty good.  Of course, you have to look for the good stuff, but it is there.   

But there are periods I think were relative down periods for music in general or prog in particular.

I'd be interesting to know when you "grew up" (meaning when you first began taking a serious interest in, and absorbing music).  


Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: July 22 2019 at 13:31
I voted music from the past. One reason is that to some degree at least most of the good ideas and melodies have already been done. Along those lines does anyone really think there will be a band in the next few years(or even from the past few years)as good as the Beatles, Rolling Stones, the Who, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd just to name a few? I don't. Even if we limit ourselves to prog I don't think there are many(if any)current bands even approaching the greatness of Yes, Genesis, PF, ELP, Camel, KC, JT, etc. Sure, there's some good music out there but I think the best(even in prog)is way in the past. 

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Yes is for Rush fans who grew up.


Posted By: questionsneverknown
Date Posted: July 22 2019 at 16:11
It's all been downhill since Beethoven's 3rd Symphony.

Seriously, I think it's often difficult to contemplate this question and separate those contemplations from some fairly deep matters of psychology. Something happens to us when we're in our early teens through our early twenties and we encounter certain music. That music could be the latest stuff, or it could be something older, but developmentally that music, heard then, does something to us, imprints upon us, and makes us--to some extent--who we are. As we get older, it's harder for newer music to make as the same kind of impact. Post-adolescence, it's probably harder for new music to shape us and hit us in the same way. Obviously, some of us are more music obsessed than others. I keep reaching out for new music, and I keep finding amazing new stuff I love. But a good majority of my peers probably stopped really listening to anything new after their twenties.

That's a long-winded way of saying that I think that when a good many people say, "music today's not as good as it was when I was a kid," they may not really be talking about the music. 

I have certainly had my moments when I've been nostalgic about how great 1980s post-punk albums were, and think how pale the latest indie band sounds in comparison, but then I think of my brother (who was 15 years older than me) and how he thought all of that stuff in the 1980s sounded like sh*te and only paled to what he listened to when he was younger.

It's probably also much harder to be startled by something new the longer you've listened to music and the more music you've listened to. When I first heard the White Stripes, my first thought was, "Didn't the Flat Duo Jets already do this?" Jack White is a phenomenal musician, who I respect immensely, but I don't think I was ever going to be able to hear him the way my students did when he first came on the scene because that was all new to them.

That said, I like old stuff, I like new stuff. The pop charts blow today (dear god do they blow), but take a look at the pop charts from the 1960s (and you'll find a whole lotta dross).



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The damage that we do is just so powerfully strong we call it love

The damage that we do just goes on and on and on but not long enough.

--Robyn Hitchcock


Posted By: MortSahlFan
Date Posted: July 22 2019 at 16:19
Despite being born in the 80s, 99% of what I listen to and love was made BEFORE I was born.


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https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List


Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: July 22 2019 at 16:46
Well, I might be one of the very few people on here born in the early 70's(70 to be exact)so for me growing up in the eighties I was mostly into seventies stuff even then. 

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Yes is for Rush fans who grew up.


Posted By: dwill123
Date Posted: July 22 2019 at 17:03
If we're talking about my past (I'll be 65 in December) then there is no way that music today is better.  NO WAY. 


Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: July 22 2019 at 18:33
Originally posted by questionsneverknown questionsneverknown wrote:

It's all been downhill since Beethoven's 3rd Symphony.


HA! Maybe since the tribal beats.



Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: July 22 2019 at 20:32
When I started to get interested in music, and even more when I found prog, I paid very little attention to the "modern" music of the time. Well, first I used to put MTV a good deal of time (in the 90's), and so I got to know many very nice (pop) songs of the time, but from 00's up to a few years ago, I really dismissed the music that was being released at the time (I had to make up for the older music that I was discovering). However, I wouldn't even say that I think the music when I was growing up was best (90's), but rather the music from the 70's. Now that I have been paying more attention to modern music, and a bit of what I missed a little earlier on, I still think the same... well, of course 90's music would be better than today's too. However, I do have found some nice stuff around, specially on prog (of course), but still, even knowing these great bands and music being done today, I can't help but return to the classics, and not easily will I want to hear something modern instead (except for a few albums). Even for prog metal, I would rather listen to what was done in the 90's / 00's to what is being released today. And for me that's the most important factor, I can try to understand and explain any number of qualities in the music, but in the end it's all about what I feel like listening and what I don't really want to listen on a common basis.


Posted By: iluvmarillion
Date Posted: July 22 2019 at 22:20
It's not as if there isn't some great music today as good as anything in the past. Radiohead is proof of that. It's just that there is not as consistently great music today, than there was from a period in the mid sixties with the Beatles to a period around the mid seventies, with bands such as King Crimson, Pink Floyd, Yes, Emerson Lake and Palmer and others. Prog bands like Spock's Beard, Marillion, BBT, Moon Safari and Dream Theater are brilliant in my view, but they fight a prevailing view in society today that mostly past musical tastes are dead and that popular music today is a combination of dance, electronic and punk bands. The exception is Blues music, classic rock and Metal which is as popular as ever. Steven Wilson seems to be the only Prog artist who can extract something out of present day popular music and turn it into something decent.


Posted By: dougmcauliffe
Date Posted: July 22 2019 at 22:33
There's a lot of great music coming out today, as far as the popular stuff, yeah not a fan. But Steven Wilson, Wobbler, Dear Hunter, King Gizzard, Neal Morse are all doing great stuff. That said most my favorite albums are from the 70s. I'm gonna chose not to vote though.


Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: July 22 2019 at 23:28
I stopped paying attention to the pop charts more than 20 years ago. 40 years ago, most of what was at the top of the charts did not interest me either, but there was music that charted that I did like. There is excellence and dross in every decade. Good music is easier to find now, but not much of that makes the charts. I voted that music was better in the past even though there are good new artists around now, but most of what I listen to and discover is still from the 60s and 70s.

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The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"


Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: July 23 2019 at 01:41
Originally posted by MortSahlFan MortSahlFan wrote:

Despite being born in the 80s, 99% of what I listen to and love was made BEFORE I was born.

Same!

TONS of great replies in this thread (perfect for morning coffee).


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Lying on the hill; crawling over the windowsill into your living room...


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: July 23 2019 at 01:44
^ It has been a good'n.




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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: July 23 2019 at 03:59
Originally posted by iluvmarillion iluvmarillion wrote:

It's not as if there isn't some great music today as good as anything in the past. Radiohead is proof of that. 

Radiohead now is older than Yes and PF were when I got into music around 1980, and they were seen as dinosaurs by many at that time already.


Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: July 23 2019 at 04:25
Counting the last weeks before 60 these days, I grew up in the heyday of prog, so those immortalized 70s classics had a great impact on me. Outside the prog niche, the music was, in general, better before disco and punk/new wave took over, even though crap has been of all times. I vote for the past, but with the remark that the 2010s have been a great decade for prog.



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Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: July 23 2019 at 06:47
Originally posted by Fischman Fischman wrote:

I'd be interesting to know when you "grew up" (meaning when you first began taking a serious interest in, and absorbing music).  
 

That would be 1974. Thick as a Brick and Sabbath Bloody Sabbath were two of my first LP's ever purchased. 


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: July 23 2019 at 08:22
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

The preponderance of the past outweighs the scant selections of the present.

When one adds up all the history that we "know", we're talking 600 years worth of music, it would seem that today's selections are too small and ... not quite as interesting and innovative as so much other music has been in history ... the worst part being that rock music has not yet taken a hold in music history, and for us to get a better sense of all this, it needs to happen, since in the past 60 years or so, both rock and jazz have surpassed "classical music" a lot and gone quite far ... even if many of us might not enjoy or listen to that stuff as much.

I don't think that today is any better than yesterday, or vice versa ... we, in history, and it goes back quite a bit, do not exactly appreciate the stuff of "today" as much or as well, as we might something that we have known for some time, and think it is representative of this or that. That kinda tends to distort the scales a bit, towards one side of things ... and sends me to go listen to new stuff again ... 

... with one problem ... I really am not interested in screaming and makeup suggesting demons anymore. I guess I have grown up some and don't even think that some of that stuff is really worth while, musically, other than some commercial aspect that makes kids think it is cool ... sort of like rap ... yet another voice, making it look like there is something here, and I'm not sure that new words about the same thing, are all that music is about.

Music, and the arts, NEVER WAS NOT at any time ... the only issue is that we never looked for it, and learned about it, YET ... and somehow, it always comes up for everyone to listen to and hear. My only concern is how some of the arts lag behind others ... and rock music, specially the stuff mentioned in popular boards is way too far behind a lot of the other arts in terms of creativity ... there is way too much copying in the "music" of today ... and I think it is on account, that it is much easier to "make it" and sell enough by yourself, to make it a viable option/selection. Conversely, film, painting and many of the other arts are suffering due to this mechanical/commercial process ... but I sure would like to see some of the off-off-off-Broadway to get a chance, instead of another version of that cat debacle!


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... none of the hits, none of the time ... now try finding your own mirror/art! www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: Fischman
Date Posted: July 23 2019 at 11:43
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Originally posted by Fischman Fischman wrote:

I'd be interesting to know when you "grew up" (meaning when you first began taking a serious interest in, and absorbing music).  
 

That would be 1974. Thick as a Brick and Sabbath Bloody Sabbath were two of my first LP's ever purchased. 

So we seem to be of similar vintage.

Those are two great first pics, by the way!  It took me a little longer to get around to those.


Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: July 23 2019 at 12:45
Originally posted by Fischman Fischman wrote:



So we seem to be of similar vintage.
 

And we seem to be sort of close geographically. If I'm ever in Colorado we should grab some gummies and a good beer and discuss our music snobbery.


Posted By: The Anders
Date Posted: July 23 2019 at 18:59
It depends of what music we are speaking of. There is a lot of really original music that doesn't necessarily have a million hits on YouTube, but if we speak mainstream pop, there is certainly a lot of assembly line music with autotune, recycling of the same computer presets, melody lines and chord structures. Most of it has very little musical and artistic substance.

If you put the Beatles, Pink Floyd and David Bowie up against Rihanna, Katy Perry or Miley Cyrus, I'd choose the first group of artists of course. But I could also choose to compare the Monkees, Ohio Express and some of the 1960-62 teen idols to Pom Poko, Juana Molina or Idles, and in this case I'll definitely choose the latter.


Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: July 24 2019 at 00:17
Voted NOW because when I was growing up (14-21) the years in question were 1976 -1983 which were not great years for prog rock. If you take the last 7 years then I reckon I have acquired a lot more music released on those years that I like compared to the late seventies/early eighties. 


Posted By: 2dogs
Date Posted: July 25 2019 at 05:43
I enjoy most of the relatively recent music on Krautrock World and Echoes Of Bluemars web radio but have generally been more excited and actually bought music from more pioneering periods right back to the musique concrete, electronic and avant garden classical that preceded prog in the 1950s and 60s.

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"There is nothing new except what has been forgotten" - Marie Antoinette


Posted By: Arnulf Floyd
Date Posted: July 26 2019 at 03:36
I believe as always was good music and bad music both in past and present, all depends on tastes and opinions. Mentioned pop singers were not really so bad and not need hate because they are good for their genre. I love both classic rock and modern rock including metal.


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Long Live Rock 'n' Roll


Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: July 26 2019 at 21:27
But compare those pop singers from today... songs that they have released, with ones from the 90's, 80's, 70's, 60's. I haven't heard any new pop song (on this decade, if not even the last two decades) to rival "Unchained Melody", "Stand by Me", "And I love her", "California Girls", "Happy Together", "Imagine", "Candle in the Wind", "Cat's in the Cradle", "Wish you were here", "Dust in the Wind", "Africa", "Eye in the Sky", "Every Breath you take", "Wicked Game", "Wind of Change", "Losing my Religion", "No Rain", "Runaway Train", "Fields of Gold", "Creep", "Dreams", "Seven Seconds", "Black Hole Sun", "Don't Speak". To name just a few... I just made a list of such pop songs I have, 85 songs, over 6 hours, and only 3 songs from the 00's, and none from the 10's.


Posted By: mathman0806
Date Posted: July 26 2019 at 22:09
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

But compare those pop singers from today... songs that they have released, with ones from the 90's, 80's, 70's, 60's. I haven't heard any new pop song (on this decade, if not even the last two decades) to rival "Unchained Melody", "Stand by Me", "And I love her", "California Girls", "Happy Together", "Imagine", "Candle in the Wind", "Cat's in the Cradle", "Wish you were here", "Dust in the Wind", "Africa", "Eye in the Sky", "Every Breath you take", "Wicked Game", "Wind of Change", "Losing my Religion", "No Rain", "Runaway Train", "Fields of Gold", "Creep", "Dreams", "Seven Seconds", "Black Hole Sun", "Don't Speak". To name just a few... I just made a list of such pop songs I have, 85 songs, over 6 hours, and only 3 songs from the 00's, and none from the 10's.

But, is this because of the quality of music released today, or because of what becomes popular or a hit today? Pop songs are not necessarily the same as hit songs. The songs you listed could be looked at as just quality songs you liked that charted well and became hits. I think many of those songs, were they released today, would not be hits. On the flip side of this, if you look around in places like Bandcamp, you can find some good stuff that might have been a hit song in a past era.

A number of songs you listed I would categorize as rock songs that charted well. It seems to me there just isn't as much rock that make it as singles these days (though I am not entirely sure as I don't listen to much current pop music). From what I can tell, music today seems to be more R&B, hip hop, or country oriented.

Also, there was just as much bad pop in the past as there is now. We try not to remember that. 


Posted By: 2dogs
Date Posted: July 26 2019 at 22:57
Originally posted by mathman0806 mathman0806 wrote:

But, is this because of the quality of music released today, or because of what becomes popular or a hit today? Pop songs are not necessarily the same as hit songs. The songs you listed could be looked at as just quality songs you liked that charted well and became hits. I think many of those songs, were they released today, would not be hits. On the flip side of this, if you look around in places like Bandcamp, you can find some good stuff that might have been a hit song in a past era.

A number of songs you listed I would categorize as rock songs that charted well. It seems to me there just isn't as much rock that make it as singles these days (though I am not entirely sure as I don't listen to much current pop music). From what I can tell, music today seems to be more R&B, hip hop, or country oriented.

Also, there was just as much bad pop in the past as there is now. We try not to remember that. 


There was indeed much bad pop in the past but the hits were much more varied, in the 1970s and early 80s it was still worth suffering the weekly TV chart show for what would be at least one gem. I have to endure the current hits at the barbers and a cafe we visit regularly and they’re astoundingly unmusical, all autotuned warbling with hardly any notes at all in the backing. I guess the TV talent competitions have focused the kids attentions on singing to the point where the music has become irrelevant, you won’t win by playing an instrument. There’s a notable contrast when the hits of yesteryear - even 10 years ago - are played.

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"There is nothing new except what has been forgotten" - Marie Antoinette


Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: July 27 2019 at 00:36
Unless someone is creating the greatest album ever at this exact moment, the answer is always the past.

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https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow">
https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp


Posted By: Odvin Draoi
Date Posted: July 27 2019 at 11:12
Cultural productions are cumulative as long as their records are kept. So concerning music, unless previous things are erased, and/or new musical theories, harmonies, and/or new music notation systems are invented, and/or our ears evolve into something superior; it will be harder and harder for the future generations to make something groundbreaking and original. It already is quite difficult.

The answer is in the past for my account, yet I still can find new good gems.

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"Latens, Concludo, Perpetua"


Posted By: Machinemessiah
Date Posted: July 30 2019 at 16:50
Originally posted by handwrist handwrist wrote:

There have been studies done on complexity of rhythms, melodies, harmonies and words across the decades and popular music (not just pop music) has been on a downward spiral towards retardation. I was born in the late 80s, so I was always late to the party - the music that was popular in my youth was already formulaic to the max and so I found treasure on previous decades (1995 and below). The future described in Idiocracy is not that far away, and music is as affected as everything else. I find it harder and harder to tolerate the absolute garbage that is frequently played at commercial establishments (that weird and disgusting mix of pop, rap, hip hop and electronica). It's just tasteless consumer products, in a musical format.

There's clearly still good music being produced, but in general I think most releases lack the inspiration, the spirit, of earlier times. And certainly our culture seems incapable of producing another truly original genre or scene. Everything is rehash of a rehash. One of the reasons I like vaporwave is because, unlike those retro bands who emulate the sound of the 80s, vaporwave is straightforward and tells you upfront the music is repackaged and manipulated and is about making you nostalgic for an era long gone.

So in short, yeah, music (as pretty much everything else) is worse today and will be worse tomorrow.
 

^ The post I most identify with in this thread so far (bolds ar mine).   Thumbs Up   


I was born in late 70's, so grew up in 80s/90s. Still my favorite music is 70's progressive rock. 80's songs I now find good and creative, compared to what went mainstream in 90's and 00's. I also dig 90's grunge (mostly Soundgarden), Björk, Queens of the Stone age, etc. but not much more (I'm still discovering.. even here, so not the last word).


So, my answer:


In the past... but not so long ago… 

Personally, I think 70's prog rock is THE best music ever (surprised I'm here? :D), counting classical as well, as Bill Bruford himself (roughly) puts it in his autobiography... "not so much rhythm there...!". I love jazzy/syncopated drumming in songs, and... rock! so...

For me, 70's Progressive Rock was the one that gathered many postwar geniuses, intellectuals (or at least very intelligent kind of guys), that took the state of the art to the next level; took advantage of technology as it rised and in its fair dose; borrowed on the breath of symphonies, jazz, and previous music, experimented with drugs, and combined it all with interesting themes and artwork in a stunning 180-degrees-from-commercial direction (take, for example, when the fellas from Rush were told after Caress of Steel to go more pop and they responded with... 2112! ...wow…) in a never seen before way to make rich and complex (rock) music.

This feeling of declination also happens to me with movies and computer games. I still remember my incredulous disappointing there sitting at the theater watching Episode One when Jar Jar Binx made its appearance (I no longer go to movies; last one: Sector 9... we left in the middle; don't know if it's good or bad, but couldn't stand the loads of black computarized alien blood being spilled into the screen). I think in that sense Star Wars was Hollywood's pinnacle of craftmanship and a masterpiece made with the perfect blend of art and what (analog) technology was available, IMO (I have a sci-fi bias, in case you don't notice). 

Same in games; nowadays it seems to me they make games only for children, that are less challenging, less interesting, more commercial and less true and artistic. The last ones I remember enjoying were Fallout 1 & 2. Recently, I played Ron Gilbert's (Maniac Mansion and Monkey Island's creator) revisited genre and beautiful early 90's style graphic quest "Thimbleweed Park"; it's been 20+ years I didn't buy a game! I owned a Commodore 64 back in the day, where, in each side of a diskette was room enough for many games that were so creative and unique... it makes me think today each one of those would be an entire genre. It was another time, another people creating them, themselves having values and experiences from yet another different time in the curve of technology; and I think, again, limited technology was the perfect dose that fostered creativeness: make a great game with art and all in 64k of memory!

On the books (sci-fi) department, a big fan of Clarke, Asimov, Poul Anderson and Larry Niven. I have found recent masters like canadian Robert Sawyer, and read great sci-fi books! Anyway, finding 'the future' not so exciting at all… nothing anymore amaze us so much. All is easy and inmediate, the invention of the cellphone must have killed hundreds of drama ideas (not saying cellphones are bad), and I keep returning to the image of humans in the Wall-E movie: a bunch of chubby, disenchanted and apathic consumers. Handwrist, up there, mentioned the movie 'Idiocracy'… that's another that stunned me and keeps me mentally returning to it frequently (remember, in one scene they go to the movies to watch a permanent image of an arse and they have a great time laughing all the same!).

The one thing, in 'mainstream arts', that I found have improved (it can be more, but that I remember now…) or at least equal in quality than before, are some TV series, like 'Breaking Bad' (oh my…) and the like (the rest of my top 3, unordered, being HBO's Rome and The Wire). They are for me of those "too good to be true" things.

Who knows maybe this things are cyclical, as someone pointed out… perhaps in a few decades… but I doubt something like the 70's could ever repeat itself.






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