Prog Music Lounge - The future of PA

Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: July 30 2019 at 06:43

King of Loss wrote:

It used to be MUCH MUCH MORE FUN around here. Now it's rather tame..

The fun got permabanned.

Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: July 30 2019 at 06:48

I think PA will still be here in 2026. This site is an excellent resource. I don't see the main site or even the forums really going anywhere. There's too much magic here; someone would do best to archive said magic just in case.

SouthSideoftheSky wrote:

As long as bands from the classic era continue to attract new, younger fans, there is going to be demand for a site like PA.

This.

Tapfret wrote:

Believe it or not, bands from the classic era continue to be unearthed.

Also, this.

AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

I disagree(at least with part of your premise). I don't think you need to resort to baiting and insults to be passionate about the music. I see plenty of passion around here without the jr. high mentality.

One thing I've noticed, after being a member of dozens and dozens of "niche" forums over the years (music and otherwise), is that there's always going to be what I like the call the "haughty, derisive" crowd. The small group of elitists that think their standards for artistic integrity represent some objective measurement everyone else must bow down to...lest they be considered a non-genuine fan!

SMN metal forums was by far the worst in terms of that type of Jr. High BS.

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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021

Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: July 30 2019 at 07:15

As someone who's equally invested in Rate Your Music, i have to say that there are many bands that are on PA that are not on that site so as long as this site remains a relevant resource, it's going to stick around. Yeah, it may ebb and flow and not be the same as when it started but why should it be so?

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https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy

Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: July 30 2019 at 07:31

Atavachron wrote:

^ he's a Grumpy prog fan, what do you expect? ;)

Yep, and I have to uphold that reputation.

Posted By: patrickq
Date Posted: July 30 2019 at 10:06

Grumpyprogfan wrote:

<snip>
I have also read threads that mention a lot of members left the website. Why? Did they <snip>

I’m pretty sure this is said on every forum on every topic: a bunch of the old-timers are gone because this or that forum sucks. It seems more likely that the number of missing old-timers is smaller than we think and that there are regular patterns of people, even longstanding members, joining and quitting most forums. Since they aren’t here to discuss why they left, we can only speculate.

Posted By: micky
Date Posted: July 30 2019 at 10:49

patrickq wrote:

[QUOTE=Grumpyprogfan] <snip>
It seems more likely that the number of missing old-timers is smaller than we think and that there are regular patterns of people, even longstanding members, joining and quitting most forums. Since they aren’t here to discuss why they left, we can only speculate.

but there are some of us left...

no . smaller.... not likely at all.. this site lost not a few but a great many old timers. And I can point to exactly where the brain drain started...

M@X.. and f**king Torman Maxt...

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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip

Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: July 30 2019 at 11:04

richardh wrote:

The thing is though is that many revered prog bands (Gentle Giant , VDGG , PFM are the obvious ones) were never that successful in the first place. Prog was so dominated (commercially) by about 6 bands in the seventies it's ridiculous ( and I don't even need to name them)

So there are 2 tiers of discussion anyway and I doubt anyone left because there is too much chat about GG or VDGG. On the other hand we did have the 'ELP wars' when the site first got up and running. There were (supposedly) too many ELP threads that it got really nasty at times. There seemed to be deep resentment that this band was getting so much chat. I think the result was that many ELP fans ended up leaving although a few like me hung on! If you wonder why their albums are seemingly underrated on this site then that is probably one reason.

In more recent times it seems to be more balanced in general and I see a lot of discussion. For me there is a lot of good stuff out there whether you want retro or something a bit newer. I wish I could spend time reviewing like I used to but I like to come here (on the forum) as it stops me thinking about work for 2 minutes and I feel I don't have to be deadly serious. Generally people are polite so that's nice!

There used to be a decent sized contingent of metalheads, though. They've gone. Like simply disappeared. Maybe got tired of the DT ribbing (guilty as charged on my part) which they all seemed to be fond of. But Mike's gone and then there was Hugues, also not seen in a long, long time. Same with Pessimist/Liquid Eternity, many others.

Cert1fied was an interesting poster and contributor and also doesn't participate here anymore.

Posted By: micky
Date Posted: July 30 2019 at 11:12

anyhow.. thanks for the heads up David.. yeah sort of right up my alley isn't it.

Anyhow... I agree with the earlier comment.. this likely has less than 7.5 years left in it than 75. And it isn't just any failure of the site, though it won't have helped it as the vibrantcy and passion that drove this site, and for the music itself has for the most part died off in the last decade or so. The site exists through a sort of inertia but how much longer will it...

the great prog revival gave birth to it and other prog sites... yet that revival ended in 2011. The day Nearfest cancelled.. and the great split between old farts and their nostalgia for the retro scene smashed right into the wall of the newer scene of progressive artists and fans. Let me repost one of teh greatest posts ever made on the internet regarding this music, the scene around it.

Jacob said:
I'm just going to chime in on the original post, dunno what's been discussed over all these pages.
I whole-heartedly applaud every prog festival organizer who has ever walked the earth for their amazing contribution to the entire prog revival. Without people like Rob and Chad and Greg and Steve and George and the rest, a lot of us in prog bands would simply be nowhere. Progfest and NEARfest in particular have been essential to the growth of Scandinavian prog in the 90's and noughties.

It just seems that the time has come now for prog to find a new way. The festivals have become, as was mentioned, nostalgia get-togethers. They have been artificial life-lines for stagnant acts, rather than fertile grounds for new, exciting acts. And those organizers who have tried to feature some new blood have been punished by a rather backwards-looking audience. As with NEARfest this year. I don't think blaming either the audience, the organizers or the bands has any virtue. What I think, is that the prog umbrella for too long has tried to shelter two very different things under its shade: On the one hand, the nostalgia scene, which features both the old acts that are still around, like Yes and whatever Italian band you care to mention, and "old-new" bands like Flower Kings and Transatlantic - bands that, though newish, cater mostly to very conservative audiences. On the other hand, the new progressive scene, which could include anything from The Mars Volta to Gösta Berlings Saga, and which really isn't a scene at all, especially considering that many of the bands themselves have no awareness of being part of a "prog scene". These two strands really are extremely different. There's plenty of people with a love for both (including, to a certain extent, myself). But to throw the typical fans of both scenes (the former, ageing, follicle-challenged geezers - bless'em all!, the latter young, dynamic listeners brought up to endless eclecticism and irreverence to genres - bless them too!), might just be too much of a stretch. Maybe it's time for a divorce. Let the geezers have their nostalgia-fests, and let the "new prog" bands get out on the regular rock circuit and compete with any other rock genres out there rather than put them in the geriatric ward of "prog" where the smell of old age will make them unpalatable to both the rock media and the major labels. No disrespect to either!!! :-)

And as an a propos: Prog labels that sign new, fresh and exciting bands should be careful how they market and present the bands. Selling them in the traditional way ("washes of mellotrons, recall Eloy in their heyday, rave reception at Bolivia Art Rock Fest (BARF)") will, quite simply, sell them short. It's a new world out there.

Indeed it is a new world out there, and many don't see it still being stuck into their favorite old bands or worse.. the whole retro prog scene that is as progressive as my left toe. See what any 'old timer' has seen has not as much been a decline in the forum per se.. the members we have here in large part are no worse than what we had here in the past.. they are just different and thus the forum has reflected it. Once the blood and semen ran down the streets in this forum.. now... it is just so polite. It has changed as has the bigger picture regarding the scene and this sites' place in it. As Jacob noted and foresaw in fact. it is the falling off of the cliff by the artists themselves.. and in very large part also the fans of those groups..

There was once a time we were literally besieged by artists wanting their bands to be added... for the exposure the site once offered. Now today.. pretty much crickets chirping. Those artists largely don't indentity with the prog scene.. or more accurately.. what it has become. A refuge of retro nostalgia prog.. but largely apathetic to new bands trying new sounds and styles. So the apathy has likely been returned and then some. They and their fans largely get on great without the site.

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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip

Posted By: TenYearsAfter
Date Posted: July 30 2019 at 12:02

Sean Trane wrote:

TenYearsAfter wrote:

When I returned to PA after 10 years (due to the demand of an increasing amount of Dutch bands and artists to support their prog) I was shocked about the situation: so many good reviewers that had left, or stopped to write reviews, less attention for genuine prog (like so many interesting bands from Latin-America, Spain and Japan), and a lot of cynism on the Forum. It all comes to me as a pretty lacklustre atmosphere. Nonetheless, there are stil some good and prolific reviewers. The owner knows that the frustrated reviewers will leave, but there are always new reviewers that will replace them. Because writing reviews and seeing these published is a kind of ego-gratification thing, more or less part of the personality of every reviewer. And this is what the owner benefits from, however, in my opinion PA is going downhill every year, but they will survive, like the appreciation for the progrock dinosaurs. But it will never be like between 2004 and 2006, when reviewers could add bands and albums in freedoom, based upon their motivation and knowledge of genuine prog, without the obstruction of those who consider them more important than serving the visiting progheads on PA. I consider this as the main problem on PA, so frustrating that reviewers quit. Or stop being active, like me, as a prolific reviewer and updater of bios (as TenYears After, aka Erik Neuteboom).

Hi Erik (I see you're in Aruba, now and I'm still in my Nood-Holland dunes),

I had no idea you'd returned... some two years ago, in terms of historical members, the place was still doing ok (but no more), but mailto:M@X" rel="nofollow - M@X had the terrible idea of installing that Captcha (I'm sure you've encountered it), which angered everyone, and quite a few did leave totally disgusted by inactions from him.

He finally gave in (roughly 9 months ago), but it was too darn late.

well for the perenity of the site, I'm not sure its sustainability will be assured for another 15 years if some renovations (not just cosmetics) are not undertaken in the database, but whether that is achievable is a mystery. Whether the site should change hands for a new life is also dubious and a very much a gamble

We've also survived many trolls and even good members going trolls.

Nice to hear from you Sean (I think many don't know I am back), I remember very well that great Prog Archives meeting in The Hague (2006?), with PA members from the UK, France, Belgium (including you) and of course The Netherlands (including me), we ended with the entire group of 10 in a very cosy beer restaurant, but you were glad they served whisky too, haha!

That Captcha kept me from publishing a lot of reviews, so many strange signs that I decided to delete the publishing of my reviews.

And M@X …. well, he acts like the average arrogant millionaire, considering people as objects, he has no idea of empathy or how to talk in a social way, poor man, I am sure he is not really happy, very empty inside. And now I am gonna take my siësta (mid-afternoon on Aruba), I live in the morning and evening, bey.

Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: July 30 2019 at 12:40

^ Man, these are very harsh comments. I never met or talked to the guy so I won't go there...all I can say is that he doesn't seem to like music a great deal.

The future of PA?

The database will stay but the forum will probably closes it's doors eventually.

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Posted By: Stool Man
Date Posted: July 30 2019 at 13:00

I predict we'll still be having these discussions hereabouts in a decade or more. The 2020s will bring us another crowd of new bands, new fans, and new sounds. Some will be the greatest music made in our lifetime.

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rotten hound of the burnie crew

Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: July 30 2019 at 13:05

The site where I spend most of my online time these days (a trivia site, and a great one at that) has been around since 2000, and still going strong. For being a forum, PA is doing quite well, in spite of everything. ProgEars lost a lot of regular participants when they changed servers a few years ago, and from what I can see does not get more traffic than PA. Other forums I know (not necessarily music-based) are all but dead. I don't see PA going away any time soon, but on the Web anything can happen.

Posted By: micky
Date Posted: July 30 2019 at 13:13

Barbu wrote:

^ Man, these are very harsh comments. I never met or talked to the guy so I won't go there...all I can say is that he doesn't seem to like music a great deal.

The future of PA?

The database will stay but the forum will probably closes it's doors eventually.

well... to be blunt my good friend. You haven't spent years involved with him so yeah.. I can honestly and with some degree of reason call him out for the motherf**king pond scum he is.

and he is why this site has such a short life span. forget the nice plattidues.. the peace and love and good dope of the music sustaining the site. This is and was always a money making venture for him. The piece of sh*t treated the man who started this forum and created it like a dirty sock... drove off a good many with his Torman Maxt stunt... and the list goes on.. and hey I'm being nice. He did give me my greatest forum victory over Ivan.. but that can only take one so far before one has to call a spade a spade.

There will likely be a day.. and sooner than later that he tires of this. He doesn't care about the music.. only the money he can get from the site and it will die. Far from accepting offers like mine of case of buttwiper and my seriously hot but completely batsh*t crazy ex wifes phone number as compensation for all the work WE put into this site.. he'll likely be like that cat we saw some time ago and want thousands for the site.

and who the f**k is going to pay that... thus the site will die...

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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip

Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: July 30 2019 at 13:43

^ Frankly I'm amazed he hasn't sold it yet. I guess he missed his chance when the site had a higher revenue and value.

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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy

Posted By: mickcoxinha
Date Posted: July 30 2019 at 13:57

M@x is a smart man. He used people's passion to run the site for him for free. In the end, it caused many people to get angry and leave (not because they realized how smart M@x is, but because they didn't get the power and recognization their egos demanded), but now, regardless of the state of the site, it is one of the most trustworthy and complete sources for prog music, so it will stay relevant for a long time.

Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: July 30 2019 at 13:58

Re David: He has tried to sell it in the past, but the asking price was very very high and there were no takers.

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Help the victims of the russian invasion:
http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446

Posted By: Odvin Draoi
Date Posted: July 30 2019 at 14:04

"People come and people go," is the common attitude shown by the site/forum owners. It seems to be working to keep things going. The alternatives can be risky, or even utopic. I've never seen a popular platform that has kept all its contributors/staff. For personal reasons as well as out of a change of heart, lifestyle or priorities; some people always go. I admit that this forum used to be in its prime in the previous decade; yet what wasn't before the social media thing? Most people preferred to create their own sphere, follow, see, read and interact with the persons they choose and kept their hands off the heterogenous forums and such. The nominal "social circle" allured great masses of internet users, so the forum culture has been trying to endure, ever since.

Of course I'm not among the staff, so I cannot make profound criticisms and present deep insights about the situation of PA. Frankly, I don't see a very special case here. Even, this forum has been going better than the -rather recent- progressive music productions, from my perspective and regarding my interests.

A slight revision, though risky, might work. I don't think here needs a complete overhaul and alteration. Perhaps I'm being selfish, as this is the only music forum that still interests me. Cool

Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: July 30 2019 at 14:14

Atavachron wrote:

^ It is a trade-off: things are less heated around here which is good, but it makes for less passionate and dramatic exchanges and that attracts fewer participants & onlookers.

...word

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Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: July 30 2019 at 14:15

Odvin Draoi wrote:

"People come and people go," is the common attitude shown by the site/forum owners. It seems to be working to keep things going. The alternatives can be risky, or even utopic. I've never seen a popular platform that has kept all its contributors/staff. For personal reasons as well as out of a change of heart, lifestyle or priorities; some people always go. I admit that this forum used to be in its prime in the previous decade; yet what wasn't before the social media thing? Most people preferred to create their own sphere, follow, see, read and interact with the persons they choose and kept their hands off the heterogenous forums and such. The nominal "social circle" allured great masses of internet users, so the forum culture has been trying to endure, ever since.

Of course I'm not among the staff, so I cannot make profound criticisms and present deep insights about the situation of PA. Frankly, I don't see a very special case here. Even, this forum has been going better than the -rather recent- progressive music productions, from my perspective and regarding my interests.

A slight revision, though risky, might work. I don't think here needs a complete overhaul and alteration. Perhaps I'm being selfish, as this is the only music forum that still interests me. Cool

Yes, people come and go. It happened long before the internet. People come and go out of our personal lives. Places where people get paid to be there actually have people leave. Who knew?

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https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow">

https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp

Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: July 30 2019 at 14:17

micky wrote:

well... to be blunt my good friend. You haven't spent years involved with him so yeah.. I can honestly and with some degree of reason call him out for the motherf**king pond scum he is.

and who the f**k is going to pay that... thus the site will die...

I hear your arguments and I certainly don't defend him but it still doesn't sound right to me. There must be more than 'only in it for the money' and 'no compensation for the hard work' for this strong resentment?

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Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: July 30 2019 at 14:20

Atavachron wrote:

^ That's true, you do, but things were just a bit more interesting when people were having fistfights, shouting matches, blasphemous outbursts, shadowy backstage dealings, quiet coups, and threats of preemptive nuclear strikes.

I can go either way.

These were cra-cra times...it was awesome!!

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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: July 30 2019 at 14:22

Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

SouthSideoftheSky wrote:

As long as bands from the classic era continue to attract new, younger fans, there is going to be demand for a site like PA.

This.

Tapfret wrote:

Believe it or not, bands from the classic era continue to be unearthed.

Also, this.

AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

SMN metal forums was by far the worst in terms of that type of Jr. High BS.

As for your last comment I don't disagree. I think progressive ears is one of the worst offenders in that category. If anyone wants to see what elite prog snobism is about go there. That's not just my opinion either. Other's have noticed that as well. Another one is gnosis but they aren't a forum but instead just a bunch of raters with ratings and some reviews.

Posted By: Argo2112
Date Posted: July 30 2019 at 14:33

OK, After reading the lats few posts on page two I feel like i need a history lesson on this place.

Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: July 30 2019 at 14:51

^If you've seen Star Wars and any Mexican soap-opera, just imagine a mash up of the two and you are there. Keeping in mind I only know the 2004-7 era second hand.

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https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow">

https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp

Posted By: micky
Date Posted: July 30 2019 at 14:54

Argo2112 wrote:

OK, After reading the lats few posts on page two I feel like i need a history lesson on this place.

*spits some sort of interesting 7-11 Hibiscus green tea concoction all over monitor*

just wait for the movie.. and the soundtrack LOL

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=120041" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=120041

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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip

Posted By: micky
Date Posted: July 30 2019 at 15:05

mickcoxinha wrote:

M@x is a smart man. He used people's passion to run the site for him for free. In the end, it caused many people to get angry and leave (not because they realized how smart M@x is, but because they didn't get the power and recognization their egos demanded), but now, regardless of the state of the site, it is one of the most trustworthy and complete sources for prog music, so it will stay relevant for a long time.

hmmm... interesting. I don't who the f**k you are. Sound like you think you were there. However many of those that left.. were my friends.. one in particular was then and is today one of my closest friends and damn nicest people you could ever know. Yes he left because of Torman Maxt.. and it wasn't because of that bullsh*t you are spreading there man.

He left.. others left.. not out of ego. Oh yes.. there were some serious ego's involved but M@X never stepped on those. He was very hands off of our work... where the problem began.. and ended for a good number of our 1st generation collabs.. were having some a****le profit off of our work. We did it for nothing other than our love of the music and enjoyment of mass murder and senseless violence on a forum scale.

when he compromised the integrity of the site and in the manner he did with Torman Maxt he lost a good many here.. and those that stayed.. did knowing what the score really was regarding him and his f**king puppets and yes men on the admin team... and they continued on anyway for even though we did what did for the site with no expectations of anything but .. well.. respect which we sure as not only earned but largely received

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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip

Posted By: Odvin Draoi
Date Posted: July 30 2019 at 15:07

Tapfret wrote:

Yes, people come and go. It happened long before the internet. People come and go out of our personal lives. Places where people get paid to be there actually have people leave. Who knew?

I wanted to emphasize my neutrality about the case in PA. (I also have no other choice as I wasn't involved as a staff member, contributor or even observer; except for some disjunctive events that I witnessed.)

I also was a reviewer in a popular music platform in my country, and left for personal reasons. I even bashed harder than this after I left. So I don't mean that your attitude is groundless, unjust and all. I just am not informed enough to have a personal conviction. Geek

Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: July 30 2019 at 15:29

Argo2112 wrote:

OK, After reading the lats few posts on page two I feel like i need a history lesson on this place.

There is a small blurb in the "about" section.

Other than that my recollection is that prog archives started out as a sister site to prog toes and prog lands. There was also a site called prog frogs but I'm not sure if that was related.

Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: July 30 2019 at 15:29

Odvin Draoi wrote:

Tapfret wrote:

Yes, people come and go. It happened long before the internet. People come and go out of our personal lives. Places where people get paid to be there actually have people leave. Who knew?

I didn't think you were bashing anyone. I was merely pointing out that people being surprised by the transient nature of humanity (not necessarily you) in any context is a bit is more a reflection of their own denial of the human condition. Your point is accurate and addresses more specifically how that condition translates to digital sociology in a salient manner. Sorry if I was not clear or seemed terse.

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https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow">

https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp

Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: July 30 2019 at 15:32

Hmm...I have been posting here for some time now....I guess I must have missed all the drama Mick was talking about.

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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin

Posted By: Odvin Draoi
Date Posted: July 30 2019 at 15:42

Tapfret wrote:

Odvin Draoi wrote:

Tapfret wrote:

Yes, people come and go. It happened long before the internet. People come and go out of our personal lives. Places where people get paid to be there actually have people leave. Who knew?

I meant I bashed the site where I used to be a reviewer (it's abbreviation is also PA LOL

). So some reactions I see here are perfectly understandable for me. By saying "I don't see a special case here,", I intended to say that this is the site owners' normative attitude, at least as far as my observation goes.

And thank for the reply. Thumbs Up

Posted By: micky
Date Posted: July 30 2019 at 15:47

yeah.. it was rather Trumpian come to think of it...

It was 2008 .. M@X wasn't getting enough cash from the Big Mick clicking on his goddamn SPANX ads and breast reduction ads we used to have so came up with the great idea to sell monthly spotlights of artists...

problem was the one for taht month was some half talented christian prog metal band.. and the Kiddie in Chief thought it would be a good idea for the band to offer the album in mp3 for our great reviewers to review

well.. problem arose when one of our more talented album reviewers of the early days tore the album apart..

and the band said.. what the f**k M@X.. this isn't what we paid for.. so what does M@X do.. not tell them.. well next time make a better album and leave the cheesy chirstian sh*t at your church.... nope.. the damn fool started hiding reviews and negative opinions of the album.

censorship they cried hahaha Russell left the site ASAP.. and in the collab zone there was quite a bitter disagreement on the wisdom of this beween a number of the collabs and M@X's spokesmen.. the admin team. Those taht were doing this work.. and Doc.. it was real work we were doing. Volunteers. A good number really felt their work was devalued and cheapened... so they left.

and my god how the fur flew...

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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip

Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: July 30 2019 at 15:57

micky wrote:

yeah.. it was rather Trumpian come to think of it...

well.. problem arose when one of our more talented album reviewers of the early days tore the album apart..

and my god how the fur flew...

God I remember that!!! I downloaded both albums, the first one was a nightmare of a recording quality and the 2nd was a bit more refined sound wise but content was ughhh!

They got ripped to shreds....as far as the private collab discussions I can only imagine the feces flying everywhere....hopefully somebody pressed REC in that discussion.

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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: July 30 2019 at 16:06

hahaha.. oh yeah Jose.. it was a riot.. to be honest I thought it more funny than anything but again.. some that I really liked and respected had a real problem with that so I was like.. what the hell.. and jumped in with both fists swinging for the fun of it.

I'd be shocked if it was still around, the classic team loved to atomize threads, that because bloody and messy the admins were very good about zapping those threads into atomic dust.

Needless to say it wasn't their best of moments...

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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip

Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: July 30 2019 at 16:48

Tapfret wrote:

^If you've seen Star Wars and any Mexican soap-opera, just imagine a mash up of the two and you are there. Keeping in mind I only know the 2004-7 era second hand.

That's about right

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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy

Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: July 30 2019 at 17:00

Verily, I foreseeth the veritable apocalypse of noble PA when Svetonio shalt return from the obvlion prepared for him; and he shalt breaketh his chains asunder and bringeth with him a dirgeful horde of Romanian polka videos which he shalt inundate the fora and drown the site with his villainous intent. Thus shalt come the end. So sayeth Fripp.

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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...

Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: July 30 2019 at 19:33

micky wrote:

yeah.. it was rather Trumpian come to think of it...

well.. problem arose when one of our more talented album reviewers of the early days tore the album apart..

and my god how the fur flew...

lol, never knew this. That explains much.

That said, even when I started frequenting the forum near end-2008 onwards, there was STILL a lot of activity in the forum (not to mention the website). The issue isn't just people leaving, which happens everywhere, but of replacement. As you said, whoever are the fans of the new bands (when I say new, I mean even bands who have been around for nearly ten years like Haken or Karnivool) don't seem to visit PA very much at all. And I don't think it's because some new website or database supplanted PA. It's simply bands using social media to reach out to their fans instead. They don't even bother having one of their acolytes post here about upcoming shows or albums etc the way it used to happen. For eg, when The Ocean came over, I only learnt it from a musician friend and it wasn't posted by anyone on PA as far as I can tell. If I didn't have a couple or more friends either working as musicians or working in the music/entertainment industry, I wouldn't come to know of gigs. I don't think this is a particularly effective way of reaching out but bands have decided they don't need what little extra mileage they may get from websites like this and see it as 'old economy'. They prefer to saturate FB instead. And because of that, the fans too gather around FB or any other social media hangouts. Back in 2008, not many bands had started using FB effectively and PA still held some value as a resource to find out about bands and their releases. Not anymore.

Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: July 30 2019 at 20:55

micky wrote:

yeah.. it was rather Trumpian come to think of it...

well.. problem arose when one of our more talented album reviewers of the early days tore the album apart..

and my god how the fur flew...

Seems like i arrived on this scene too late to catch those episode of How The Prog Turns LOL

-------------

https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy

Posted By: Jaketejas
Date Posted: July 30 2019 at 23:32

It is an excellent point and should be a wake up call. I've been visiting some other sites that are really pushing new music and in fact trying to get my own band's tunes out there. We are now getting on some playlists and drawing a pretty decent crowd on Radioairplay. To me, that's where the action is. I come back here and I get the sense that it is becoming a prog nostalgia site. If it is going to survive, and I sincerely hope it will, I think it needs to draw more from the younger generations. One of the most proggy guitarists I know put it this way: if it is progressive, shouldn't it also be focusing on the new directions that music is taking with an emphasis on what hasn't been done before (pioneering aspects). He ended up having to hop genres just to fulfill his honest definition of prog. Some folks here harp on and on about the Big 6 and act like Rush is some new band on the scene. But, the fact is that they are retired. Many bands inspired by Rush are already long gone. My point is that we probably need to emphasize more fresh faces on the scene if PA is going to live on. It needs an injection of adrenaline or something.

Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: July 30 2019 at 23:42

^ So basically we are just a load of boring old farts? fair enough I resemble that well enough

Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 31 2019 at 02:52

micky wrote:

but there are some of us left...

no . smaller.... not likely at all.. this site lost not a few but a great many old timers. And I can point to exactly where the brain drain started...

M@X.. and f**king Torman Maxt...

Yup, for many, Maxt was the dropped that filled the bucket

TenYearsAfter wrote:

Nice to hear from you Sean (I think many don't know I am back), I remember very well that great Prog Archives meeting in The Hague (2006?), with PA members from the UK, France, Belgium (including you) and of course The Netherlands (including me), we ended with the entire group of 10 in a very cosy beer restaurant, but you were glad they served whisky too, haha!

yup, I remember that prog meeting as if it was yesterday.

Not sure mailto:M@x" rel="nofollow -

Barbu wrote:

^ Man, these are very harsh comments. I never met or talked to the guy so I won't go there...all I can say is that he doesn't seem to like music a great deal.

mailto:M@x" rel="nofollow - M@x was a metalhead before discovering VdGG, which made him love prog in general, but I'd guess he was more into progmetal more than other genres. Of course, a lot of us were not kind towards progmetal (including yours truly), so most likely that didn't please him.

I think that he also grew disillusioned with the way the members reacted , fought, ego'ed and everything and disagreed with his new ideas... In 95% of the sites, if you bad mouth the owner, you're out... and yet we stayed and he often gave in to our demands... until he finally bowed out (I mean, he probably said to himself at one point about us "'f**k them, let them run it!! ... as long as PA doesn't cost me money").

He's busy with other things nowadays (making money elsewhere - not sure PA was ever a goldmine, but it did pay for itself because of advert revenues) and to make sure he kept PA safe, he installed craptcha, not to f**k us up, but to protect the site... I wonder how much he hates us as a whole - maybe as much as most here hate him

We're all yelling at him, but if he and ProgLucky hadn't (re-)started PA, we'd still be diddling around with GEPR (recently defunct and taken off-line) or use other shaky sites like ProgGnosis. Sooooo we must still respect them two, because they (don't know if PL is still alive) , simply because the place still exist and we can still see our own labour of love.