Do you mean prog bands, or prog listeners? I don't think most bands are against the idea of having a hit - although I most prog bands be against compromising their music for the sake of commercial appeal. And of course, a lot of prog listeners will criticize a band for creating something poppy, whether or not the band was intentionally trying to make a hit or not.

As far as the idea about a song having to be experience only within the confines of its original album... I don't really think that theory has anything to do with whether or not a band is prog or not. If you listen to a certain group of songs in a certain order, that order is going to be ingrained in your mind, and for some, it may seem jarring hearing that song in a different order or context. Never mind the fact that very few bands, even prog, exclusively play entire albums live - so obviously the natural flow of their album is not at all sacred to them. And in all likelihood, the material wasn't written in order and the order of the album was probably decided relatively late in the creative process (except for concept albums).

Let's be honest, the only reason prog doesn't make many hit singles is because prog artists like to make songs that are too long or too weird for the radio.

It's well know that some bands didn't release singles in the seventies , Led Zep being the obvious one , but many did.

There are so many great rock and prog single releases and they certainly help popularise the genre.

In terms of context there are clearly many songs that can exist 'on their own and be appreciated seperately.

For instance ELP released Lucky Man and From The Beginning in the US and both made the billboard top 50 so they were 'hits'. Neither song sits within a story or needs any context.

Another one is Arthur Brown 'Fire'. That was part of a concept album about a man's descent into hell. As a single it works brilliantly but if you want to plough through a whole load of late sixties weirdness to get there then you have that option. Does that make it better when you get there? I'm not sure but to me probably not.

The thing I normally don't like is when long tracks are edited but even that's not a rule in my book. I actually like the single edit of Watcher Of The Skies although can't say its better. Prog fans in general will always prefer the longer version of a track!

Came here to say this .

Owner of a Lonely Heart isn't prog enough?! 

I'd argue GG is one of the few prog bands capable of writing a pop song, and you can tell they got sick of prog toward the end with the last couple albums.

Those songs aren't amazing but to claim GG was incapable of writing a decent pop song is a stretch. Mountain Time is catchy as hell (same with For Nobody, I Lost My Head, etc.) and could have easily been a radio hit. If anything those guys were just smart and knew what they wanted to do. That's different than being incapable, especially at the level of skill GG displays.

Most of these bands released a lot of singles in their early days (Yes, Tull) to become well-known bands. When they were established they could release Thick as a Brick, Tales from Topographic Oceans, etc.

When disco and then punk and then new wave and then hairmetal and then grunge and then raprock and then indierock etc. were the taste of everyone, a lot of bands tried to write songs in those genres because the wanted a hitsingle or their label forced them to do so.

When progrockbands were dropped by the majors, they couldn't care less and stopped trying to be hip.

Did you know that even IQ were on a major once? They even released a couple of singles in the mid-to-late eigthies. Even Twelfth Night released one album on a major.

Problem is: most prog is meant to be difficult and are long extended songs with lots of solos and tempochanges and what not. Most progrocksongs are not suitable for singlerelease.

Bands that actually wrote lite-prog that are suitable for singlerelease are regarded as poprock instead of actual progrock (Queen, Saga, Toto, Boston, It Bites, Asia, Journey, etc.)

On top of that I think the well-known progrock-bands released more singles than we actually realize.

Just take a look at the bottom of the discography. Bands like Tull, Floyd, Genesis and Yes released a multitude of singles and even had smash-hits.

I even think that Missing Piece and Civilian could have been better known, if they had proper promotion.

They were on of the few indeed to crossover to other styles very easily (like Queen and 10cc).

Is should've left Gentle Giant out of the equation. They just had bad promotion. An album like Civilian could have been as big as 90125.

Maybe Eloy was a better example. Towards the eigthies they released a couple of singles and none of them charted.

I'm really not convinced that any music fan enjoying the following is hearing them out of some fanciful 'context':

Lucky Man, Roundabout, Sylvia, Living in the Past, Spirit of the Radio, Silver Machine, Devil's Answer, Nights in White Satin, Dreamer, See Emily Play, Kayleigh etc (the list goes on)

Might be a different story if the song is heavily edited down from a much longer version (America, Fanfare for the Common Man) or divorced from a concept album (e.g. Another Brick in the Wall)

Catchy choruses and memorable hooks in Prog that lead to a chart placing are a feature, not a bug.

Only Moshkito is vehemently opposed to hit songs (cue impenetrable critique of the entire PA membership apart from Pedro himself)

But that's not particularily a prog thing, is it? The moment that an album is created as a unified art form, its individual songs or pieces will necessarily carry a certain meaning in the context of that album that they wouldn't carry otherwise.

Opera arias is basically the same story. They may be sung individually at festival concerts and things like that, but they are meant to be part of a whole opera.

While it is true that prog and hit single don't really go well together and while it is also true that some albums should be listened to as complete albums and not single songs, it's a huge stretch to say what you said above. There are tons of non-concept prog albums that do not flow as you suggest. I'd have to imagine that there are even some concept albums that don't flow like that either. 

Your Comfortably Numb example is interesting because a prog fan and a PF fan would probably look at it the same way, but someone who only knows that song from the radio and has never heard the whole album probably wouldn't feel that way at all. 

Not really ... I think these words are a misinterpretation of my meaning, and it just makes it clear that you are not sure what I am really about. I'm opposed to the mechanism that thinks that hit songs is the only way for any band to make it, and succeed.  And a Top Ten, reinforces the old school of selling and making sure that the record company that owns that song, can make some money ... which these days, DOES NOT reflect the truth as much as we give it credit for ... the fact of the matter is that inventing a way to create a top ten, makes it look like you are with it, and on top of the "news" about which song is better than the one from yesterday!

WE ARE, HERE, IN A PROGRESSIVE MUSIC BOARD. 

None of the music that became known as "progressive" was ORIGINALLY known as famous or had a top ten hit ... their work was a revolution against the commercial pull of radio, and this was EXTREMELY VISIBLE IN AMERICA, DURING THE EARLY FM RADIO DAYS, WHEN IT WAS INDEPENDENT.  When the FM stations in America started being bought out by the commercial interests, it only took another year or two and the "invasion" of European music ended, just about over night! These groups were there to promote THEIR PRODUCT, not yours. That is the form of commercial work and advertising ... it was always like that ... but we do not give a duck today about that at all ... in fact, we kiss it and help their butt stay clean! 

Hit songs, happen, sometimes, regardless of the situation ... even the American AM radio played things that they didn't like, but took steps to fix it ... ex: PF's Money was a big hit ... but too long for AM radio and it had a bad word. So they cut the song in half (some middle parts removed), hid the bad word, and played it ... under 3 minutes worth ... and it did fine as a single, too! But PF did not have the ability at the time to say ... you can't do that and remove it from the air! Another, even more famous song, was The Doors, whose first hit "Light My Fire" also had a single that was cut in half from the original! Jim Morrison did not like that at all!

The main issue with the OP's comment, is that he/she has no idea what PROG was all about in those early days ... it was an ANTI-ESTABLISHMENT thing that was trying to make a point about music, that today, too many folks misinterpret as the start of something else ... which is not quite true. Some songs were longer, and some had different music feelings and designs, and the like ... but today, no one can even consider the difference and how so many different things could be appreciated and remembered ... they were NOT hits as it were per se, and in fact, many things were not respected until a bit later, when the band got a bit more respect, and by then, they could do no wrong ... 

Hit Songs, is what "progressive music" was against. What bothers me, is that a lot of the admins that run this place are not even smart enough to stand up for that idea and concept and instead take on the populist role ... which they don't even believe in anyway ... to make sure they can say something stupid about Mosh ... Mosh is NOT the problem ... the lack of respect for a lot of the music that became "progressive" by many Admins, in lieu of their "favorite songs" is the problem ... 

DAMN IT guys and gals ... PROGRESSIVE WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN AROUND IF IT WERE ABOUT THE HIT SONGS OF THE DAY. So after all that, how do you think they made it? Because it was excellent music ... and today, because you see they stood up and lived, now you can not reconcile the fact that they did not have a "hit" on the radio to make it!

I am just disappointed that so many ADMIN's in this board have no idea what they are trying to support, and I think that they will kill it all because of this lack of knowledge and appreciation to the music ... they keep on trying to KILL PROGRESSIVE MUSIC, because they can only support hits! And almost NONE of them can stand up and say ... ohhh ... that was bad ... we need to improve on that ... and until the day that this happens, I'm not sure that the life of "Progressive Music" or "Prog" can survive long enough to get some respect ... it already doesn't here, because tomorrow it won't be a hit anymore! And too many of the folks here don't care and try to shoot blanks into a fart!

In the case of the radio in Santa Barbara, and possibly LA, it was COMFORTABLY NUMB that sold the whole album. After that it was HEY YOU, and a couple of months later ... the song about the brick on the wall. The album, even by the standards in Santa Barbara, was given a ... wow ... a lot of really weird and stupid stuff in there, until parts of it broke up those cynics. The last "song" to make the album a bona fide HIT, was "Run Like Hell" which was a monster play in LA.

But PF, is a really bad example of "prog" or "progressive" and I'm not sure I would use it for that ... and THE WALL, was way after the whole thing had already started and was almost "gone" according to some folks that could not listen to anything but hits, to see that other bands in other countries had just as good, if not better, material! 

 

That seems a bit harsh.

... then do something that HONORS THE SPIRIT that helped create "Progressive Music" and "Prog" ... because some Admins are not ... and sadly/unfortunately M@x seems to not have the time to even check/know who the folks volunteering for him are and what they stand for.

I'm not out to change everything for nothing ... I'm only out to improve things, and we can't do so ... we plain can not do so ... when so many Admins consistently continue to discuss this as just a hits board ... and posting on those threads about their "favorite". That's an Admin not fit to be involved in a discussion about "Progressive Music".

Why can't people look at all those "top" albums and realize what they are about ... almost none of them are just songs, about nothing. ITCOTCK is by far, for example, one of the most political albums ever done, just done within the structure of poetry and lyrics that soften the message some, but made it clear musically ... instead it is ignored, and some reviews even state it is an uneven album ... and today? That album would be trashed silly and right off the bat! Any band doing something like that today won't last 5 minutes, from a guy in a big white house telling the record company to fire them, to folks here going around throwing tomatoes and everything else at them!

The "hit song" thing is not the issue ... it's the content. Progressive Music and a lot of Prog was not vacuous and pathetically boring and repetitive formats that did not help music develop anywhere, except in your growth from a teenager to an adult ... now you knew how to count 1,2 and 3 and then 4, and even what a few notes sounded like. Wow!

Just checked and weirdly it was just the UK (although a reissue of Whole Lotta Love was released here in 1993 according to Wiki and made 21 )

btw Whole Lotta Love made the top five in every country in was released in in 1969

yep that was the pop phase albums Nomzamo and Are You Sitting Comfortably? fronted by Paul Menel (who recently made a solo comeback)

One of the songs from those albums (Might have been 'As The Years Go by') was a massive hit in South America thanks to being linked to a popular advert that was aired on TV.

Thankfully got back to the grind of 'proper' prog in the 90's. They took more control of their direction by forming GEP records and signed up artist like Spock's Beard and Threshold. The label is still going strong. Not sure if they even bother releasing hit singles anymore.

and also quite obviously a load of bolderdash

No you're right my man, Missing Piece and Civilian SHOULD have been better known, especially for that sound at the time! Another perfect example of dropping the ball...er...Giant... 

I agree with your assertion that Civilian COULD have been their 90125. The fact the latter sold so well is a massive indicator the boys could have struck gold briefly. Those old German TV show performances are some of my favorite prog moments of all time!

Yes, that as well.

Art is subjective
There is no right and wrong. 

I listen to complete albums and I also listen to single songs in isolation. I admire a catchy melody and for me a song doesn't need to be 5+ minutes long. Also I have my favourite songs on many albums that I love to play on their own, which doesn't mean I can't appreciate "flow"; although I don't think the bands get the "flow" always right on their albums; there are albums with good stuff but putting all that stuff together doesn't always make a coherent album (I hardly ever listen to the Genesis albums up to Lamb except Live in full because the whole is often not more for me than the sum of its - often great - parts). And then I don't care much what other people buy, so if I like something, others may make it a top 10 hit or not, I don't mind.

I wouldn't object against listening to a single song that was conceived within an album concept outside the album. If the song can only be appreciated within an album context, it wouldn't become a hit single anyway. Obviously making a song from a concept album (or an album that has some kind of "flow") a single will not destroy the flow, because the song is still on the album, you can check!

Who objects to playing Comfortably Numb outside the Wall context should also object against David Gilmour and the post-Waters Pink Floyd playing this song in a live show without playing the whole album. Which is by the way what 95% of prog bands do all the time. Recently there has been a fashion to play full albums live, even old ones, which is perfectly fine, but it still is only a footnote in the live practice of most bands. 

Of course Moshkito is right that one thing about prog that I like is that it is mostly not done in order to sell, but even in that respect I can be corrupted as I like a few Mike Oldfield pop singles (though far from them all).   

By the way, some defend Gentle Giant as being able to write a good pop song but nobody seems to have defended Camel yet, who have some great pop songs indeed (Heroes, West Berlin, Hymn to Her), some of which were singles but didn't sell that well for whatever reason.

Not a single Admin has yet posted in this thread, so which Admins post in this fashion throughout the rest of the forum? As the old adage has it: Put Up or Shut Up etc

Speaking as an ex Admin, I found it's usually best to clarify the charges first to avoid accusations being interpreted as 'scattergun' at best and 'indiscriminate at worst

That sums it up.....

 

What would you suggest I do? I support prog bands, I buy their CDs, go to their gigs, what else can I do?

Self-editing would be helpful, but since you seem incapable of control, I snipped and pruned the detritus....
 

-------------
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...

But, but, what of site admins destroying the prog?? What of it????

I'm not totally sure that ALL music is "art". It's like saying that every book makes "literature" and and so on, just because it told you a story about a dog licking some water in the gutter by your house!

Art is only SUBJECTIVE, from the artist's perception, because there is no right or wrong when he/she is doing it ... in many cases, it is what you see, and you might not like it, and this is there you decision is a problem ... your choice is not (usually) objective ... it is more often then not perceived through the lens that make up your constitution. And that makes it subjective, however, in of itself, and has little to do with the piece of art ... this has more to do with your own vision and understanding, and you are confusing the two ... they are NOT the same thing.

Right or Wrong, is one of the worst ideas used everywhere ... there is no right or wrong, except one's choices, of course, when they will immediately stand up for their GOD and deny anyone else's ... even if it were the same feeling and idea ... in different words, just to give you an idea of a right/wrong gone totally berserk and out of order!

A piece of art, has no life of its own, thus is can not be objective or subjective ... what comes out of it, is what we animate to make it objective or subjective ... and that has to do with our own way of seeing things and representing them. You could have learned a lot about this in the 60's when Andy Warhol was giving you some pictures, that challenged your idea of what "art" was and if it was either subjective or objective ... again, that result had to do with your perception ... and nothing to do with a can of soup, or a picture of dearest Marilyn ... well, I suppose that we could fantasize some but that would be on us, not the picture! Same with the Playboy fold outs when we were kids ... and going wow ... that's far out!

"Hit songs" is something that arose out of the media for the purposes of selling ... there is no more subjective idea in commercial advertising to subvert your thoughts and ideas ... and most folks, that are not aware of the mechanisms behind the commercial ideas, will usually fall into this trap ... but few of those folks will EVER admit that they got suckered into it.

I'm not opposed to "hit songs" and there are many I love dearly and have in my collection, however, in the history of PROGRESSIVE MUSIC, hits is not what the music was about, even if one or two pieces did really well and helped the band ... but heck ... YES was not known as "progressive" anything when ROUNDABOUT got out and FM radio in America played it to death. It was a great song, no doubt. And the band deserved the attention!

I recommend that you study your relationship to the arts ... and separate the art itself from yourself ... while the idea of what you posted is OK, in the end, it is not exactly clear what you are saying and in most cases you are confusing the issue ... specially what is you and what is the art "over there". We learn this FAST AND FURIOUS in theater and film ... but only in a rock music board will someone say things like that and think they are right! And then try to use it to prove someone else is wrong! That is soooooooooooooooo PA, it's sad!

That's admittedly something I've never tried before. With the naked eye or the telescope, usually they appear invisible making it difficult to shoot them. If the pants are baggy enough, they might puff out upon the release of a fart. You could time your shot this way, but how would you be certain you actually hit the fart? If the anus is pivoted in a different direction, that fart might not have travelled from the fartee on a 90 degree angle. It may have been more oblique. And let's not forget that there is a human on the other end of that fart and if your aim is off, a derrière might be in a lot of pain.

One of the better solutions for shooting a fart might be to use infrared vision and a scope. This should alleviate the inaccuracy of an oblique fart.

Just a thought.

Once in minus 18 degree Celsius weather I was waiting outside for a train and saw an attractive woman wearing black tights and a short fluffy jacket talking to some bloke. Her butt was facing at an angle toward me (and yes I was occasionally glancing at it), then suddenly, due to the black background of her tights, I saw a grey puff cloud appear that looked like she suddenly sprouted what looked like a grey fox tail, then it immediately dispersed. This happened while she kept cheerfully talking to the guy, and of course he couldn't see that quick burst of gaseous release. Super cold weather can bring out the truth!

So technically I could have fired a blank from a pistol at the fox tail (and gotten arrested afterwards), though the pistol would've needed to be within the actual fox tail next to her butt when fired for the blank to be shot "into" the fart.

To answer paganinio's question - the top 40 cannot help but take a song out of context.  That is the nature of the beast.  What is can do is lead the smarter people to want to check out the whole album and then we can lure people to our silly cult. 

Arts based degree, relevant music experience. That's "experience" and not "opinion". Opinions are worth jack sh*t.

Thanks for recommending I study something, Mosh, already done it.

Incidentally, amidst all the waffle, a lot of your reply is actually agreeing with what I said, but you seem to not bother actually thinking about posts and formulating a thoughtful reply to them as it's easier to shout everyone down and insist that you're right. Even though you seem to be unsure what you're right about. God only knows. 

If you're convinced that the admins are "destroying prog" here, I'm quite happy to show you how to set up your own forum. 

Once in minus 18 degree Celsius weather I was waiting outside for a train and saw an attractive woman wearing black tights and a short fluffy jacket talking to some bloke. Her butt was facing at an angle toward me (and yes I was occasionally glancing at it), then suddenly, due to the black background of her tights, I saw a grey puff cloud appear that looked like she suddenly sprouted what looked like a grey fox tail, then it immediately dispersed. This happened while she kept cheerfully talking to the guy, and of course he couldn't see that quick burst of gaseous release. Super cold weather can bring out the truth!

So technically I could have fired a blank from a pistol at the fox tail (and gotten arrested afterwards), though the pistol would've needed to be within the actual fox tail next to her butt when fired for the blank to be shot "into" the fart.

moshkito wrote: while the idea of what you posted is OK, in the end, it is not exactly clear what you are saying

Oh the irony.

Nice!!

I know, brings new meaning to "Trick of the Tail".

80's-90's Phil Collins version:

And yeah, yoga buns. My morning yoga routine doesn't veer much from sitting in my recliner drinking coffee while watching 'Yoga With Adriene' videos on YouTube.

Davesax1965 wrote: BA(Hons) English and History, 1994 with Philosophy 43 years playing music Arts based degree, relevant music experience. That's "experience" and not "opinion". Opinions are worth jack sh*t. Thanks for recommending I study something, Mosh, already done it.  Incidentally, amidst all the waffle, a lot of your reply is actually agreeing with what I said, but you seem to not bother actually thinking about posts and formulating a thoughtful reply to them as it's easier to shout everyone down and insist that you're right. Even though you seem to be unsure what you're right about. God only knows.  If you're convinced that the admins are "destroying prog" here, I'm quite happy to show you how to set up your own forum.

God I love this place 

I laughed my head off at that. Thanks. ;-)

Off this way, electronics to build in the garage, back in probably a few months. ;-)

Nice to see you after a very long time.  And I completely agree.  Try telling the millions who ONLY heard ABTW or Comfortably Numb on radio or MTV that the songs don't work without the context of the album and they would heartily disagree.  By the way, this argument is so antiquated in an age where streaming and youtube are the major ways in which music is listened to (while the LP is becoming a rather yuuge cottage industry again).  As I said in another thread, PA is sort of in a time warp bubble where nobody talks about the elephant in the room.  That without creating some viable revenue streams, the music industry is only going to survive in the form of two extremes - one, the big bad label produced pop and two, the bedroom artists who can no longer find live music venues they can afford or raise money to produce albums that nobody other than the campaign contributors will buy.  It little matters now who is opposed or agreeable to what and we ought to rather celebrate all the good music we can get and cherish it.

To build on this post, hit song and prog aren't necessarily sworn enemies so much as serving different artistic and audience needs.  When some of the prog guys began to try to write 'commercial' stuff in the late 70s or 80s, they found it more challenging than they perhaps expected it to be.  Because standing out in a four minute length, by the same token, is really hard.  That is also why pop is also prone to jumping the shark in desperation to grab eyeballs.  But the best pop music out there is also a product of songwriting brilliance that can sometimes be beyond the grasp of prog artists who get used to working with very complicated motifs that cannot be easily assimilated. Besides, jumping the shark isn't the sole preserve of pop.  What were Emerson's stunts or Gabriel's initial experiments with masks (before he started seeing costumes as a way to supplement the narrative) but a way to capture the attention of the audience.

I don't think I expressed this correctly ... this line needed to be clearer and I missed it on re-reading it.

"Progressive Music" did not get labeled and discussed as such until later, however, we have created a line that includes albums that kinda predated the large wave of "Progressive" materials. It was not quite against it, however, a lot of the material out there that we have called "Progressive" in the really early days, was not meant to be "Progressive" and more than likely NOT DESIGNED to be so. The perfect example is King Crimson's first album, which is a major socio/political album. Even RF has said so ... but in a thread here, way back when, many fans trashed RF, instead! What ELP had done in the early days was probably more inspired by classical music, than any ideas we have of "Progressive" ... maybe even PAAE which was late 1971. Or even worse, that Italian guy interviewing Gary Green and TELLING HIM what was "Progressive Music" and that GENTLE GIANT went away from it ... to which he said ... we didn't write anything ... we just played ....

And my thoughts still are ... we're afraid of improvisation and free form ... which is the "origin" of "Progressive Music" (so to speak) compared to the nature of "songs" which is not free form or improvised, though it may have gotten its start that way!

HackettFan wrote: ... These are important equivocations, and they are better answers in my view than simply the idea that hit songs are what Prog was against (And also a logical problem in your accusation toward the PA Admin(s), BTW).

It's not really meant to be an accusation and it is written with a bit of sarcasm, if you will. However, the truth is that many of the so-called "Collaborators" and "Admins", have a tendency to post ways to destroy the conversation and sidetrack the thread many times, also taking stuff I said and twisting it.

I understand the methodology of "management", as I did manage two restaurants for a long time ... and dumping employees would have put me on the training mode a lot, and I would not be able to move forward, instead of spending money in training new folks.

But, the collective, in PA, in general, and it's an observation, will post more on "hits" and "top ten" discussions than they will anything else, and the sad thing is, they don't even try to say ... I disagree ... LIKE YOU DID ( I appreciate that!) ... but instead ... it's not worth the discussion this whole thing ... because I do not see that many/some of the folks over there, will listen to someone/anyone ... saying something in here, sometimes, is the saddest thing ever ... because all you get is a "commercial" or what the Chinese used to call "Industrial" answer (Isaac Stern goes to China) ... and it is specially so when they do not want to hear/see that a comparison is showing something they wish not to hear or see.

It's fear of the unknown. It's fear of new music. It's fear of something unusual that you can not define ... and it's been the history of the arts for centuries ... except in one board, where a top ten is more important than the music itself ... and discussing HITS is way more important than the music itself or worse ... than the artist himself/herself.

Folks here are discussing hits they like ... not the music itself. There is a huge difference in my book! I don't even try to do that ... 

With all due respect, I'm even suspect of the Surrealism Manifesto ... I'm opposed to "being told" ... what has to be done, and should be done, and specially so by a commercial/industrial society whose folks know of nothing else, and many times do not understand the role of the artist in the 20th century... SPECIALLY IN EUROPE ... which is being ignored and forgotten.

Many of those "manifestos" are just publicity seeking articles! And trying hard to subvert and confuse people's ideas!

Pedro, almost every day, collabs add bands you have likely never heard about.  I say this confidently because they are new bands and not your pet obscure favourites from the 1970s.  They get added and afterwards, there's radio silence about the bands while the next set of bands to be added arrives.  So you are as guilty of this top 10 phenomenon as those whom you frequently accuse of it.  You have your priorities and lots of bands don't fit into them.  And this goes for everyone.  Life is short and there's too much music.  You can't force people to pay attention to the bands you would like to see discussion over.  And what will make that even more unlikely is you utilising every opportunity to lambast the board and its collaborators for so called top 10 syndrome.  

*Ducks tomatoes* 

I assume you're talking about Moshkito here?

That wouldn't be a big issue without those who feed him... the power to ignore, anyone?

In my view Mosh writes really valuable things once in a while or even maybe more often. Also there's his other stuff lambasting 95% of the world with special mention of PA contributors and collabs and I agree that that's not on, but this has been challenged often enough to know that he won't change. As long as he is not banned or censored (I am happy that he isn't) we have to put up with it. It's tiresome and annoying but being offended all the time must be quite tiresome as well...

Final comment.

I'm not trying to take down the board, and make PA look bad ... I'm only saying that some folks considered "colaaborators" or "admins" do not seem to have a sense of "manners" that I am being asked to uphold ... when they switch the discussion and example, into something else, in order to derail the thread and the comments.

I'm just baffled, in my own way, at how some of these folks do not really know the history of the music, enough to make a call on "progressive" ... because 5 minutes later they are posting about a "commercial/industrial" statement about the whole thing.

In my view, this ART is not being allowed to be who it was for what it was ... IT HAS TO FIT INTO AN IDEA that can only see and appreciate a TOP TEN and a specific set of ideas that did NOT have anything to do with the original music and its artists.

That does not mean, in any way, that some had a hit ... and did really well with it ... but it's sort of like actors on the street ... everyone you hear about or read, there are some 500 others starving and washing dishes somewhere ... and ... ohh too bad ... their music is no good anyway! (Those 500 couldn't act 5 lines kinda thing!)

And as the last posted comments say, new bands are being added all the time ... which I appreciate and no, I have not heard most of them, however, I bet that I have checked out more than half of them, since new music, new arts, and different things are a part of my catalog ... not top ten! And we know that those new entries are not top ten ... so why would most folks posting even bother listening to them, specially when their comments are less about new music and its differences (that helped progressive grow!!!), than they are yet another "vote" for that top ten assembly line!

I don't want to see PA gone. But Ii would like to see PA take a stronger stand on PROGRESSIVE MUSIC and help dictate a lot of its definition, instead of WIKI now holding that prestige, because we have not done a whole lot to improve what we have seen, and specially its history ... we still talk about ITCOTCK as an album of songs and hits ... not anything else, and it is not that at all! Even RF stated that it is not "progressive" ... and we don't agree ... and therein lies one of the reasons why I don't like to say one album is and another is not ... to me, the history and its events, are not showing why the music is valuable and important ... we only seem to worry about one smaller thing, at a time when FM Radio in America was wide open, and played so much European stuff and new music, which was closed down within 5 years, when that same FM Radio was bought by commercial/industrial conglomerates, and promptly closed down the avenue of new music and "imports" (in America), thus making it look like for a lot of posts here in America that PROGRESSIVE MUSIC died in the 80's ... duhhhhhh ... the best friend we ever had, was taken away ... that simple, and just like today, it only plays the same stuff in a supposed top list ... that you and I would never EVER believe in ... but we allow it, and think it's cool, because it is "there" and we are not!

This is about a fight for freedom ... in the arts ... and as one of my favorite films ... I call it ... LE PHANTOME DE LA LIBERTE ... as a tribute to one of my favorite films ... that does something with the stories that music, and specially rock music, is afraid to do ... bring it alive! We only hear the lyrics ... not anything else, it seems.

With much love and care ... continue your comments, and let someone else show you what art isn't when it is just a mechanical exercise! 

I recall a long suffering publisher's reply to Gertrude Stein's latest droning, nearly unintelligible stream-of-consciousness manuscript.  I believe this rejection notice would serve well in this case, even if it is not entirely within context:

The top ten lists are normally kept in one place. Admin created that area of the forum for a reason and that was to keep it separate. It really is pointless to keep going on about it. If they got rid of this part of the site then they would just have to keep deleting threads and that's more work for people who are not paid for doing it. In any case this is a free world, you may not like it but others do. Why not just ignore it altogether? Is that so hard?

Fully agreed but who exactly is doing the former? Are there then others who take these fun polls and top ten lists too much to heart?

Sorry about this slight digression, but FWIW, I check the newly added bands almost every day on PA. I add many of them to a list I keep of things I want to listen to. After listening to them, if I like it, I seek out a way of buying it. My problem is time management and I'm guilty of not having written a review in a long, long time. And I own a lot of things that have not been reviewed or have very, very few reviews. If I could only clone myself...

But if the collabs are reading this, please know that your hard work does not go unnoticed. I'm very thankful of the work you do and the newly added bands are something I look forward to every day. I usually don't have the time over the weekend to visit here, but it gives me my lone highlight on the first day back at work on Monday. Thank you for what you do. 

Kingsnake wrote: Gentle Giant didnt really care. They were even unable to actually write a decent popsong.

If it is, it shouldn't be.