System of a Down
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Other music related lounges
Forum Name: General Music Discussions
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12085
Printed Date: May 17 2024 at 11:36
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Topic: System of a Down
Posted By: Don Quito
Subject: System of a Down
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 18:08
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Ok! I just want to bring this into the forum and see what do you think... I was reading at some material that defines the history of progressive rock and found a quote that mentioned the band System of a Down. The passage says: "Other heavy metal bands not generally considered prog-metal, such as System of a Down, have nevertheless incorporated prog-influenced elements like bizarre shifts in time signatures and tempo in their music." (taken from the website http://www.wikipedia.org - www.wikipedia.org ) On the other hand, I found something that tells more about the influences of the band, as well as the range of instruments they use in their albums: System of a Down uses a wide range of instruments, including baritone electric guitars, electric mandolins, sitars, 12-string classical guitars and many other East Asian instruments. Their main influences are most noticeably from earlier alternative rock bands, but they also draw influence from the punk rock, jazz, fusion, Armenian folk music, classic rock, blues, and industrial genres. (taken from the website http://www.wikipedia.org - www.wikipedia.org ) I know System of a Down is not a progressive band. They are an Alternative Metal, Nu Metal or Power Metal band with influences from progressive rock. To get an idea, listen to their song Question! from their latest album Mezmerize and you'll see all those multi time signatures, scales and tunings with very quiet and very loud passages ocurring in the same piece. These same characteristics can be found in all their works. I definitively think they should be included as Prog Related since the term is also defined as artists unrelated to prog with common things to prog music in that it is very structured and adventurous, sometimes hard or heavy, sometimes mellow, with strong melodies and good hooks as an integral part of most of the material. Though most of these artists aren't considered progressive themselves, their relation to progressive music is not to be underestimated. Besides, they are mentioned as part of the progressive rock definition/history. What do you think about this???? ------------- KEEP THE PROMISE YOU MADE |
Replies:
Posted By: Arnold Layne
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 18:11
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i dont even really like them but i do agree with what you said ------------- HELP! |
Posted By: horza
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 18:11
i like them but NO sorry  ------------- Originally posted by darkshade: Calling Mike Portnoy a bad drummer is like calling Stephen Hawking an idiot. |
Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 18:16
Give me 3 SOLID reasons why they should not be in prog-related. ------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection. Commissions considered. |
horza wrote:Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 18:18
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------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 18:21
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Two types of metal and a synthetic plastic? I expected better from you, Snowie.
------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection. Commissions considered. |
Posted By: horza
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 18:24
its not for me to decide,i expressed an opinion,if you want them in you give the reasons  ------------- Originally posted by darkshade: Calling Mike Portnoy a bad drummer is like calling Stephen Hawking an idiot. |
Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 18:25
The original post stated why they qualify as prog-related. You
said they do not qualify for prog-related, therefore the burden of
evidence is on you. 
------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection. Commissions considered. |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 18:26
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I couldn't think of any better reasons! And Perspex is a real plastic! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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With Prog related category,just about anything could be added I reckon.
Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 18:27
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I'm not entirely sure I'm happy with the prog-related catagory's
existance. After all, that is true, just about ANYTHING can be
added. With that said, I really *do* think System Of A Down
qualify; they've got a lot of proggy elements without being prog.
Their guitarist has said before that they try to pack all of the
variation of a prog song into their music, but keep the songs short. Either way. ------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection. Commissions considered. |
Posted By: horza
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 18:29
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i LOVE system of a down,lets have them in they will fit in with peter gabriel and david gilmour,why did'nt i see that? mmmmm,the lush keyboards/synths.....yummy   ------------- Originally posted by darkshade: Calling Mike Portnoy a bad drummer is like calling Stephen Hawking an idiot. |
Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 18:30
Sweetie, the original poster didn't say they had "lush keyboards/synths" (although they actually DO make use of keyboards/synths, did you know that?), he said they had enough elements to qualify as prog-related. Prog-related doesn't mean msuic like Gabriel and Gilmour. ------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection. Commissions considered. |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 18:34
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I have no objections, and if I did it wouldn't make any difference! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: horza
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 18:34
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Sweetie?? What a strange term to use Anyway,System of a Down not prog in my book,if they can be shoe-horned into prog related, fine ------------- Originally posted by darkshade: Calling Mike Portnoy a bad drummer is like calling Stephen Hawking an idiot. |
Posted By: Don Quito
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 18:37
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Yes! I agree with you all. Now that we have that category on the archives, anything is possible. Besides, the are good. On the other hand, The Mars Volta did make it to the archives and I never imagine they could be progressive. I always related them to alternative rock. System of a Down is not plastic and they have enough elements to qualify as prog related. Think about that... ------------- KEEP THE PROMISE YOU MADE |
Posted By: horza
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 18:39
Yes,they are good  ------------- Originally posted by darkshade: Calling Mike Portnoy a bad drummer is like calling Stephen Hawking an idiot. |
Posted By: Don Quito
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 18:42
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Yup, I noticed that their vocalist, Serj Tankian, plays keyboards too... ------------- KEEP THE PROMISE YOU MADE |
Posted By: horza
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 18:44
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I knew they featured keyboards,in a thread of mine i query whether a band can be termed prog WITHOUT keyboards,i have no axe to grind re:System of a Down ------------- Originally posted by darkshade: Calling Mike Portnoy a bad drummer is like calling Stephen Hawking an idiot. |
Posted By: goose
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 18:45
That tour with Magma and Pink Floyd went down a treat too! I don't think prog is about fitting in with other prog bands!
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Posted By: Starette
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 18:47
I agree that they're prog related but OH my GOD they SUCK!!!!!!!!! ------------- 50 tonne angel falls to the earth... |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 18:48
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This is BS.I can't believe how this site is deteriorating. System of a Down prog?You have got to be kidding me. -------------  |
Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 18:49
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Not prog. Prog-related. The "open" catagory to attract more visitors and so forth.
------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection. Commissions considered. |
Posted By: horza
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 18:50
it was a FAILED attempt at humour,thanks for pointing that out ------------- Originally posted by darkshade: Calling Mike Portnoy a bad drummer is like calling Stephen Hawking an idiot. |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 18:50
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So someone plays some keyboards on a song or 2 and they are prog? ------------- |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 18:51
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------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 18:51
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Then you can call just about anything prog related ------------- |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 18:53
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And why does a thread about System of a Down stay in the prog music lounge but a thread about rating the albums of Symphony X get moved to non prog music lounge? ------------- |
Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 18:53
Which is the reason I personally am completely against the catagory's inclusion. ------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection. Commissions considered. |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 18:53
I don't believe anyone has said this. And its Prog related as Manbentover said! I see I was too late wityh this post! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Starette
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 18:54
Sorry to offend anyone- but one tends NOT to like the favourite band of their ex-partner. ------------- 50 tonne angel falls to the earth... |
Posted By: Don Quito
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 18:55
No Protologist. That is not a major concern for a band beign prog or not. It was just a reply for someone that talked about it. On the other hand, don't worry, I don't think the site is deteriorating. I've already seen worst crap than System of a Down within the archives. Still, SOAD is not in the archives. I just wanted to hear opinions... ------------- KEEP THE PROMISE YOU MADE |
Posted By: horza
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 18:56
i must have missed that!!! i love them - now THEY are prog (metal) ------------- Originally posted by darkshade: Calling Mike Portnoy a bad drummer is like calling Stephen Hawking an idiot. |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 18:56
I'm not offended......you just made me laugh.......I could sense the bile! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 18:57
Same here MO. ------------- |
Posted By: Don Quito
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 18:57
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Because we are discussing about "Prog Related"... ------------- KEEP THE PROMISE YOU MADE |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 19:00
Doesn't matter, if they're not included in the Archives,this thread will be moved! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 19:09
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My mistake,that Symphony X thread is in the Non-Music Prog Lounge ------------- |
Posted By: R_DeNIRO
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 19:23
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System of a Down in the site... I hope you are kidding, do you know that Rammstein have keyboards in all they songs, why not include them also in prog related? And we can include Limp Bizkit, Linkin Park, Korn... (they covered a Pink Floyd song). Then we can erase of the site Genesis, Yes, Rush, Dream Theater, Camel, King Crimson... and this will be the f**king NuMetal archives. The day this could happen I will leave this web inmediatly. What will be the next? ------------- We were always be much human than we whish to be. |
Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 19:24
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SOAD are prog-related for sure. every review i've read of
Mesmeriz/Hypnotize has tried to categorize them as "Aggro-prog".
however, this prog-related category does seem kind of sketchy. It
may just serve as another way for people to try and define their
favorite bands as prog because they are afraid of being labelled
"unprog".
------------- http://www.myspace.com/altaic" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/altaic ALTAIC "Oceans Down You'll Lie" coming soon |
Posted By: Don Quito
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 19:31
Keyboards are not a major concern for categorizing a band as prog or not. But, let me ask you, Isn't prog also described as the use of unusual time signatures, scales, or tunings. Pieces with multiple time signatures??? I didn't know you wanted to include Limp Bizkit, Linkin Park and Korn on the Archives... ------------- KEEP THE PROMISE YOU MADE |
Posted By: R_DeNIRO
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 19:37
This is the point, only the keyboards doesn't make a band prog, only unusual time signatures, scales or tunings neither. I mentioned limp Bizkit, Linkin Park and Korn because are more similar to SOAD that anything prog. ------------- We were always be much human than we whish to be. |
Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 19:42
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Linkin Park, Limp Bizkit, and Korn don't have tons of odd time signatures, odd scales, and tons of time changes.
------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection. Commissions considered. |
Posted By: Don Quito
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 19:45
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I think this Prog Related lable will have a major impact on prog as a whole and I believe it doesn't make sense at all. These label, in my opinon, applies for bands that aren't progressive, but have their influences on prog. The bands that are included on it are progressive for me: Adrian Belew, Peter Gabriel, Saga, Styx, Triumph, Roger Waters, Alan Parsons, Asia, Jon Anderson. And what the hell is Primus doing there???? Sorry, but whoever did it must be on drugs. They are a Jam Rock band that should be a category or label where you can include bands like Phish, Oysterhead and all Les Claypool's projects. Now I understand why the site is deteriorating... As I said on one of my posts, A band is prog or is not. A band can have their prog influences and hence become progressive like all Neo Progressive bands which had their influences from progressive rock bands, but there is not a single band in the whole world that have their influences from prog and ain't prog... Doesn't make sense... My last words are that people should be more careful on putting down quotes like this: In recent years, the most commercially viable category of prog has been progressive metal. These bands are usually happy to be known as progressive, and produce very long pieces and concept albums. Several of the leading bands in the prog-metal genre (particularly Dream Theater) cite pioneer progressive hard-rockers Rush as a prime influence. Meanwhile, other heavy metal bands not generally considered prog-metal, such as System of a Down, have nevertheless incorporated prog-influenced elements like bizarre shifts in time signatures and tempo in their music. Or else, we will have pissed off/neurotic people like The Protologist or R_DeNiro... ------------- KEEP THE PROMISE YOU MADE |
Posted By: Don Quito
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 19:49
Sorry, but I don't see that in those bands. Still, I try not to waist my time or money listenning to that junk... But I really don't think much complexity in bands like those you have mentioned... ------------- KEEP THE PROMISE YOU MADE |
Posted By: R_DeNIRO
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 19:56
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Even called SOAD heavy metal is excessive. They are Nu Metal. Just listen to Chop Suey, for example. Is it prog? Where is the complex structure? When do you see a prog band so, so, so repetitive? ------------- We were always be much human than we whish to be. |
Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 19:59
Red was a pretty repetitive track, but no one says anything. Listen to "Aerials" from that same record. Not prog, but definitely not nu-metal. ------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection. Commissions considered. |
Posted By: R_DeNIRO
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 19:59
I donīt waste my time in them too. But in the past I listened to them, fortunatly, my musical taste have an evolution to prog, that's the reason I think it's a shame to include bands like SOAD. ------------- We were always be much human than we whish to be. |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 20:02
I am not neurotic,I just think a band like SoaD even being thought of for inclusion on this site is ridiculous. ------------- |
Posted By: Don Quito
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 20:48
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Listen to Question! from Mezmerize. Not prog, not sure if its nu-metal, but it fits well under your so called prog related label... ------------- KEEP THE PROMISE YOU MADE |
Posted By: Don Quito
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 20:55
Yes, my musical taste has evolved to prog either, but your so called "prog related" label still confuses me. Besides, still don't understand what the heck is System of a Down doing on an introduction paragraph on the definition and evolution of prog rock. But still, I do love prog and enjoy non-related prog stuff like System of a Down, and found interesting to know what people say about this. Although, I can tell you the the band has influences from many styles. You should really listen to those samples (Aerials and Question!) and see for your self... ------------- KEEP THE PROMISE YOU MADE |
Posted By: FragileDT
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 20:56
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I can't stand system of a down though I do think they have enough progressive elements to fit them into some sort of prog genre here. ------------- One likes to believe In the freedom of music But glittering prizes And endless Compromises Shatter the illusion Of integrity |
Posted By: Don Quito
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 20:58
Yes, I think we got to that point... Nobody is begin for inclusion... It was just a thought since the name of the band is mentioned on the quote, I found it interesting to see what people thinks... ------------- KEEP THE PROMISE YOU MADE |
Posted By: Don Quito
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 21:01
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And to tell more, that quote is stated in one of the pages from the Archives... Isn't it so ironical??? ------------- KEEP THE PROMISE YOU MADE |
Posted By: Retrovertigo
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 21:16
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Alright, I'm going to explain why SOAD can be misinterpretted as prog. One, they use Eastern instruments because they're Armenian, and care about their heritage and want to bring it over here to an extent. Two, they use switching time signatures (which is not at all a trademark of prog) because they're influenced by the craziness of Mr. Bungle. I love SOAD, but damn I'm sick of all this crap. |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 21:18
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Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 21:21
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They're "different". let's just leave it at that and quit bitching. ------------- http://www.myspace.com/altaic" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/altaic ALTAIC "Oceans Down You'll Lie" coming soon |
Posted By: Don Quito
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 21:26
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If Mr. Bungle is labeled as RIO/Avant-Prog and SOAD are influenced by their craziness, so you mean that SOAD are still prog related... Curious and still ironical to me... On the other hand, if keyboards and the use of time signatures are not at all a trademark of prog, then what is the trademark for a band to be classified as prog???? Men, your scientifical explanation still doesn't convinces me... ------------- KEEP THE PROMISE YOU MADE |
Posted By: Don Quito
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 21:27
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Yes, you are right GoldenSpiral... I'm sick of this BS... ------------- KEEP THE PROMISE YOU MADE |
Posted By: GatesOfDelirium
Date Posted: September 25 2005 at 21:45
Then I pray that your next partner is not a Gentle Giant or King Crimson fan. ------------- 
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Posted By: Logos
Date Posted: September 26 2005 at 00:22
*Sigh* Women... 
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Posted By: hotbelly
Date Posted: September 26 2005 at 04:42
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