70's aleniation concept albums
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Polls
Forum Description: Create polls on topics related to progressive music
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=121094
Printed Date: April 24 2024 at 21:51
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: 70's aleniation concept albums
Posted By: Sean Trane
Subject: 70's aleniation concept albums
Date Posted: October 02 2019 at 07:14
|
While I wasn't a huge rebel in my teens years (but I was rebellious enough), this was the subject that I thought extremely interesting in my music: albums like Crime Of The Century, Quadrophenia or Bat Out Of Hell or even The Wall and The Lamb (to a lesser extent) were about alienation and inadequacy from the norm and failure to meet society's expectations from us. COTC and BOOH spoke directly to me, because they had a contemporary context (that could be North American), while Quadrophenia was too typically English and happening in the early 60's to be as immediate to the North Am teenager I was then. It took the movie for me to get the full extent of the storyline, but even then, I was mostly sympathising with the Rockers, rather than the Mods, and I smoked pot (like the hippie I was claiming I was then), and disliked poppers (it wasn't agreeing with my body at all, like speed wasn't either). But despite that, I was rather impressed with this RnR (or RnB in this case) rebel story. I did have some sympathy for Rael 's rebellion in The Lamb or even Little Minton's rebellious act in TAAB, but Tommy was a different alien to me, much like Pink in The Wall What sets BOOH a bit apart from those is that the alienation is accepted by the character, and he's more into conforming and trying to resemble other in his case, avoiding feeling isolated. (at least, that's how I read it). |
Replies:
Posted By: dougmcauliffe
Date Posted: October 02 2019 at 07:19
| Wow what a tough poll, going with Supertramp |
Posted By: tboyd1802
Date Posted: October 02 2019 at 07:26
|
Tough choice. Went with Quadrophenia... ------------- He neither drank, smoked, nor rode a bicycle. Living frugally, saving his money, he died early, surrounded by greedy relatives. It was a great lesson to me -- John Barrymore |
Posted By: DarkTower
Date Posted: October 02 2019 at 07:48
| All great albums. Voted for The Wall |
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: October 02 2019 at 08:11
| Thick as a Brick, followed very closely by The Lamb, and Quadrophenia a little behind. |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: October 02 2019 at 08:20
|
I'm tired of voting for TAAB in all polls where it appears, so here I vote for The Wall. Although I prefer listening to TAAB, The Wall is top as musical realisation of the alienation concept. |
Posted By: Braka1
Date Posted: October 02 2019 at 08:37
|
Tommy is a great selection of songs, which I always found marred by bland production and surprisingly unexciting playing. My favourite version of it is actually from the 1989 tour, with Simon Phillips on drums. Everyone else hates it, though. NB I think Simon Phillips's playing on the video of this tour is utterly electrifying. Amazing drummer.
|
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: October 02 2019 at 09:10
|
Judging by the theme of alienation alone, and not how much I personally like the music, I would vote for Quadrophenia. My favourite album from the list is the Lamb. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: October 02 2019 at 09:38
It looks like only you managed to get the essence of this thread (maybe it wasn't so much a good idea to make a poll after all). The idea was to discuss the fate/destiny of the characters I'll go for Crime, though Quadrophenia's ending is even more drastic. ============== BTWS, though not prog (or prog-related at best), Bat Out Of Hell is as serious a contender, IMHO |
Blacksword wrote:Posted By: Mormegil
Date Posted: October 02 2019 at 09:43
|
Dig them all. Voted for The Lamb. ------------- Welcome to the middle of the film. |
Posted By: Argo2112
Date Posted: October 02 2019 at 09:46
| Between Lamb & Tommy for me. Voted for Lamb |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: October 02 2019 at 13:46
|
TAAB ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: October 02 2019 at 21:48
|
The Lamb is about drug addiction??? ? Nah-- I don't think so. Never heard that. Heard more along the line of Wikipedia story description. The album tells the story of Rael, a half https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Ricans" rel="nofollow - Puerto Rican adolescent living in New York City who experiences several bizarre situations and characters. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lamb_Lies_Down_on_Broadway#cite_note-bbc-22" rel="nofollow - [22] Gabriel was influenced by the band's last American tour to set the story in New York City, and used the location as a tool to make Rael "more real, more extrovert and violent". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lamb_Lies_Down_on_Broadway#cite_note-sounds1974-9" rel="nofollow - [9] He chose to develop a character that is the least likely person to "fall into all this pansy claptrap", and aimed for a story that contrasted between fantasy and character. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lamb_Lies_Down_on_Broadway#cite_note-nme1975-12" rel="nofollow - [12] He explained that as the story progresses, Rael finds that he is not as "butch" as he hoped and his experiences eventually brings out a more romantic side to his personality. The ending to the story is not directly clear as Gabriel deliberately left the ending of the story ambiguous. When asked about it, Gabriel does not declare that Rael dies, though he compared the ending to the buildup of suspense and drama in a film as "you never see what's so terrifying because they leave it up in the air without ... labelling it". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lamb_Lies_Down_on_Broadway#cite_note-nme1975-12" rel="nofollow - [12] Several of the story's occurrences and settings derived from Gabriel's dreams. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lamb_Lies_Down_on_Broadway#cite_note-platts-33" rel="nofollow - [33] Collins remarked the entire concept was about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociative_identity_disorder" rel="nofollow - split personality . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lamb_Lies_Down_on_Broadway#cite_note-history-34" rel="nofollow - [34] The individual songs also make satirical allusions to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology" rel="nofollow - mythology , the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_revolution" rel="nofollow - sexual revolution , advertising, and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumerism" rel="nofollow - consumerism . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lamb_Lies_Down_on_Broadway#cite_note-platts-33" rel="nofollow - [33] Gabriel felt the songs alone were not enough to detail all of the action in his story, so he wrote the full plot on the album's sleeve. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lamb_Lies_Down_on_Broadway#cite_note-sounds1974-9" rel="nofollow - [9] |
Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: October 02 2019 at 22:51
|
For alienation, I think the Wall hits the deepest. The others don't quite get to that same level of despair and psychological struggle. ------------- The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty" |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: October 03 2019 at 00:15
|
From personal experience The Wall. I felt that Waters understood this perfectly because of his own experience. Pete Townsend though is even better at this so I could easily have gone for either of the The Who albums. The others just seem a bit soft to really make an impact emotionally although Lamb definitely has it's moments ( Back In NYC especially) and Bat At Out Of Hell is just an oddity and although the title track is certainly 'classic' the whole thing never really resonated with me. Just too 'operatic' which I associate with being fake.
|
Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: October 03 2019 at 01:37
|
Lamb ------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: October 03 2019 at 01:56
Well, I remember that a dealer was involved and reading Rael's whole underground trip looking for his brother was a long hallucinatory drug trip. A Puerto-rican teen in NY (self-called Nuoricans, if I remember well) had his everyday life on the drug-infested streets back then, most likely hanging out (aerosol kid means doing graffitis) and looking or getting in trouble.
BOOH is indeed probably a weaker form of alienation, but it is about that anyways. But by the time it did hit me (release time), I'd plunged for three years into uncertainties that Crime Of The Century had so well described for me. BOOH really told me that it was alight to be alienated, because most kids/teens were, so I felt "normal" again.
|
Posted By: essexboyinwales
Date Posted: October 03 2019 at 05:30
+1
|
Posted By: Fischman
Date Posted: October 03 2019 at 06:52
Ditto, except I went with Quad. |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: October 03 2019 at 07:23
|
Hi, By the time that I heard any of these (Tommy in 1968 or so), I enjoyed them, but in the end, compared to a lot of literature, most of it was over rated and overly impressed with itself kind of material that I did not feel, needed the accolades, and did not deserve it ... Tommy was billed for a long time as the first "rock opera" ... I can handle that, but it was hardly a rock opera ... it was mostly just a bunch of songs in 2 albums! Other than THE WALL I personally do not think a lot of all the others ... and it is weird that TFTO is not listed since that heavy of a spiritual trip is ALWAYS an individual path for everyone, this making it a good candidate for "alienation" without using the word! THE WALL's basic concept and idea had started some 15 years later in PF concerts with sound effects going around your head, and having vignettes and bits and pieces taking place, and eventually these came together into a "story" (second rate one in DSOTM) and eventually a full fledged story off the visuals for THE WALL. That the theme became "alienation" was a bit weird and scary when it had its roots in the WW2 and his parents, thus the term, is not exactly well defined and used in this situation, and THE WALL should not have been in this listing, although the symbol of the wall and its image on stage does indeed create the separation, which for Roger was probably more about protecting the players from the fans ... many of whom invaded their space many times when it should not have happened! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: October 03 2019 at 09:10
|
Voted for The Wall. The whole concept is deeply troubling and I can relate to it to some extent. I don't think the drugs are the reason for Pink's alienation but rather the opposite, a consequence. I suffered a childhood trauma and subsequently, unconsciously I built a wall around me to protect myself from potentially dangerous feelings. As a result I became comfortably numb in many respects, which was fine for many years, I was successful in several respects (such as Pink becomes a successful rock star) but as I grew older I started to feel that something was wrong. I'm not yet fully recovered although I fight the situation. The ending is even more troubling, the judge declaring that the wall must be taken down, because if Pink is not psycologically ready for it, it can be devastating to his mind. We are left wondering wheter that's the case or whether he can overcome it.
|
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: October 03 2019 at 16:52
|
TAAB, then Quadrophenia. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: October 04 2019 at 00:41
This is just total guff.
|
Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: October 04 2019 at 01:29
|
If I were the good man I'd understand the spaces between friends...almost all the lyrics by Waters are about alienation. I would have added Mike Rutherford's Smallcreep's Day, but it's only on one LP side. ------------- Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half. My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com |
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: October 04 2019 at 07:43
|
Great poll idea! I can think of many others you could have included! (Il Balletto di Bronzo's Ys, Nektar's Recycled, and The Buggles' The Age of Plastic are the ones that come to mind immediately.) In terms of effectiveness of the music and lyrics to tackled said theme(s), I was always blown away by The Wall (though I never really liked the music of the whole thing): I could truly feel the impact of Roger's message from the total package of that album. Thus I voted for The Wall (despite the fact that The Lamb is my all-time favorite album). The next closest for accomplishing the capture of each alienation theme that you've designated is, for me, Crime of the Century. The others are all great, with GREAT music and songs, but their ability to accurately and constantly convey said themes over the course of their 45-minutes (or 90) are not as consistent--are more fractured. That is, of course, my opinion. ------------- Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: October 04 2019 at 08:05
I'm a little afraid to ask (difficult already to understand your posts in a normal/plain context, let alone asking you to explain further), but how do you figure?  TFTO is Jon's schmaltry-paltry drivel to achieving heaven & bliss and such frivolities (though yeah, it could be ranked in the heavy drug consumption category). Nothing about feeling rejected from society
|
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: October 04 2019 at 10:37
|
Tommy....a sentimental favorite , though Quad, TAAB, and Lamb are all right up there for me. The Wall is too long.....Crime is imho overrated, and ... Bat Out Of Hell...seriously..? ;) ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Libor10
Date Posted: October 05 2019 at 09:02
|
Lamb with TAAB second and maybe The Wall third. All records are quite good, only Crime here seems to me rather unadequate (I've never been too much into Supertramp) together with Bat Out Of Hell (I like it, but concept album? IMO it's not). ------------- 
|
Posted By: Dopeydoc
Date Posted: October 06 2019 at 15:30
|
Supertramp, then The Who and The Who |
Posted By: A Crimson Mellotron
Date Posted: August 25 2021 at 13:23
|
The Wall |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: August 25 2021 at 13:24
| Crime Of The Century |
Posted By: Steve Wyzard
Date Posted: August 26 2021 at 17:54
|
I voted for Supertramp, but I'm not convinced "inadequacy" is the concept. That would be just scratching the surface. The actual concept of Crime of the Century is the HUBRIS, or fatal flaws of mankind: 1) paranoia ("School", "Bloody Well Right") 2) mental illness ("Hide in Your Shell", "Asylum") 3) self-deception/disillusionment ("Dreamer", "Rudy"), and 4) self-destruction ("If Everyone was Listening", "Crime of the Century"). It's at this point that I must mention that the band has always denied any connection between the songs, as if the album were just 8 songs haphazardly thrown together that by some cosmic fluke propelled them to international acclaim. My response is to read the lyrics, and take note of the song-sequencing. How did the words and music from a very obscure British band somehow resonate with a worldwide audience in spite of ZERO support from the media? Even if they don't understand it all at first, people somehow just "get" the universal themes this album so eloquently lays out.
|
Posted By: The Anders
Date Posted: August 26 2021 at 17:58
|
To be precise, Tommy is from 1969, but it gets my vote. It has always meant a lot to me. |
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: August 26 2021 at 18:06
|
Supertramp ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: iluvmarillion
Date Posted: August 26 2021 at 20:46
I've owned the album since it first came out and it's the first I've heard it's about drug addiction. In fact I still haven't got a clue what the album is about after all these years and what you say just adds to the confusion. Does anybody else apart from Peter Gabriel know what the album is about and could they please tell Steve Hackett what it is because I don't think he knows either?
|
Posted By: Sacro_Porgo
Date Posted: August 26 2021 at 21:56
It's only knock and know-all, but I like it.  Seriously though I was scratching my head at that drug addiction theme. I'd say sexual discovery, liberation, abuse, rejection, and shame area much bigger part of the album's theme. In fact the whole plot could be construed as a kind of sexual awakening for Real, which also resembles a really wild acid trip, filled with all sorts of incredible mythological and religious allusions. He runs around with a tough gang as a pretty young man (or even a teen), gets a certain idea about what it is to be a man, and what sex is and what it's for. He reads up on how to do it right once he realizes that it shouldn't be a one sided thing like he maybe learned in his gang, but he still gets it wrong and feels ashamed (I think there may be a naive rape in there). Later he finds himself seemingly punished for his actions, or maybe his psyche is punishing him for his inability to please the woman he chose to have sex with. He's shrunken down to the size of an insect, then trying to decide who to follow in a world full of disparate beliefs and no easy way out, then winds up following someone who leads him astray despite seeming innocent and leads him to death in a subway tunnel, only he doesn't die and instead approaches a pool of even more nefarious creatures, The Lamia. He gives into their temptation of sexual pleasure, but something about him causes them to suffer by trying to devour him. Maybe he has too true of intentions? Maybe he's too young? Maybe he's spoiled and they were expecting a virgin? Hard to say without research. He winds up traveling to the colony of slippermen, who seem to be sexually deviant monstrosities, and they welcome him as one of their own. Realizing his desires would turn him into a monster, he has his genitals removed to stop himself by force, only they're stolen by a raven and in the end he has to choose between saving his genitals, returning home, or saving his brother, who turns out to be himself. And that's kind of where it all fades to white and Gabriel attempts a moral with the closing number, which is also him lampooning himself. Very strange psychological drama, in some places horror. Beautifully illustrated, compellingly narrated, even if the plot and the reasoning is all pretty fuzzy, but then I think it's supposed to be dense and intangible, like a particularly long and vivid dream. That's one interpretation anyway. ------------- Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :) |
Posted By: Sacro_Porgo
Date Posted: August 26 2021 at 22:00
|
I took a long time deciding between The Lamb and Quadrophenia, but I think Quadrophenia is a bit more impact fully musically, with more heavy hitting tracks that aren't as narrative-dependent as those on The Lamb. I'm going with The Who here, though both are top shelf concept albums. ------------- Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :) |
Posted By: Awesoreno
Date Posted: August 27 2021 at 00:51
|
I've mentioned it before, but here is the most in-depth look at The Lamb I've ever read. http://www.bloovis.com/music/lamb.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.bloovis.com/music/lamb.html
|
Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: August 27 2021 at 19:22
|
I got Crime Of The Century and The Wall close together even though Supertramp was out years earlier. Both blew this 18 year old away back then. I went with Supertramp. By the way Breakfast In America was out by then and I bought it too but even as an 18 year old I was a way bigger fan of Crime Of The Century. ------------- "The wind is slowly tearing her apart" "Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: August 28 2021 at 03:53
i'll check this out, thx ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: August 28 2021 at 07:45
|
I do find this poll/discussion interesting, but I can't really contribute with anything worthwhile. Perhaps its because english isn't my native language, but I rarely or never care enough about stories or concepts lyrically. I still love a good concept, but more as a complete universe like Magma or The Flying Teapot-trilogy. I suppose I'm missing out on something, but I don't think I would enjoy Thick as a Brick any less if I didn't understand a word. That's basically what music was like when I was a child. Just voices and sounds. My frist two favorite albums as were both concept albums: Pink Floyd - The Wall and ELO - Time. I didn't understand any words, but loved the whole feel of them. For me the latter album has ended up as of a more lasting favorite, although the concept is weak and the lyrics often incredibly silly. it sounds awesome though:) ------------- 
|
Posted By: tdfloyd
Date Posted: August 29 2021 at 18:42
|
no bad albums here. The Wall, Lamb, Quad like the poll has it at the moment
|