5 star ratings
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Music Lounge
Forum Description: General progressive music discussions
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=121128
Printed Date: April 19 2024 at 14:48
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Topic: 5 star ratings
Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Subject: 5 star ratings
Date Posted: October 08 2019 at 08:17
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I believe some reviewers here at PA and other places like the ZON give out 5 star ratings too easily. Some on almost every release. I am guilty of this on occasion also. When your favorite band/artist puts out a new release you may automatically rate it higher than it should be. For me a 5 star release should be one that has not one skipper or filler track. All tracks must be superb, not just great, but the best ever. Desert island disc. If one owns 1000 releases I really believe only 5% (approximately 50) of those should be rated 5 stars. A three star release should be one that is just average, not the bands best work. Or a release with several great songs followed by several bad songs. An inconsistent release. Some reviewers don't rate any release lower than a 3 and that puzzles me. A one star release should be one that every song does not resonate with you. It could be a band outside of your comfort zone, or just a horrible release by your favorite band or artist. I don't understand reviewers not wanting to give any one star reviews. Are they trying to protect the artists feelings, or just don't want to be seen as negative? Wouldn't an honest review (good or bad) appeal to artists more than those who stroke the artists egos and rate it amazing every time? Just wanted to get some opinions on this topic. |
Replies:
Posted By: TCat
Date Posted: October 08 2019 at 08:44
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According to PA guidelines, 5 star = essential, 4 star= excellent, 3 star = good, but not essential, 2 = fans/collectors, 1 = for completionists only. I usually only use 1 star ratings for albums that are either obsolete or so bad (in performance, recording quality, etc) that you can barely listen to it. 5 stars are for those albums that are unique and influential, plus they have to be top notch. Some may have filler material, but that determination is usually made by opinion. Some concept albums use short tracks, or tracks that don't stand alone very well, as transition tracks, or interludes, to make the album slow more smoothly or to develop the concept, and many listeners that don't understand the "concept" concept tend to think of those tracks as filler. Some would think that the short track "Five Percent of Nothing" from Yes "Fragile" album is filler, but in reality, it is quite complex. Anyway, there are a few of my own opinions. In the end, it is always open to some level of opinion when rating an album. ------------- https://ibb.co/8x0xjR0" rel="nofollow">  |
Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: October 08 2019 at 08:53
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I think I may have given 5 stars a bit too often, but it also depends on my attitude at the moment of writing. Not really too much anyway. ------------- Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half. My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: October 08 2019 at 08:55
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1) We all listen more to music that we like and most feel more motivated to review the albums they love most. If somebody thinks they should listen to an album 10 times or even regularly through many years for writing a good review, this person will have a hard time to go through all these listens with an album they think it's one star. So most if not all people will rather review albums they rate highly (although a good occasional slamming may be fun). 2) I try to make an effort to "understand" an album and what it's meant to achieve, and I try to be flexible to find something good about an album. I'll be happier buying and listening to stuff I like, and finding new ways of appreciating music makes my music listening richer, so I'll make an effort to get into things and to find an angle from which I like things. Giving one star doesn't only mean I hate an album but also I didn't succeed finding something that appeals to me despite trying, for which I take some responsibility myself. I don't believe quality is an "objective" feature of an album, I think it's about the relation of the listener and the album, and I'm up for working on that relation as a listener (at least if I believe there's enough in it to be worth several attempts - but if not I may not feel up for reviewing it either, see 1). Also I'm generally a positive person who tries to appreciate the effort other people make, so I have some respect for all musicians and will not give one star lightly. 3) The whole is sometimes more and sometimes less than the sum of its parts. The rating is not an average over the single songs. There are some bits of Kate Bush's The Dreaming that I always fight with and that I'd probably not like that much on their own, but for me there's absolutely no doubt that it's a five star album (in fact it's among my top 5), similar In the Court of the Crimson King. But these parts are not fillers or skippers, they have their own life which may on occasion be in conflict with mine but are in communication with the rest of the album which cannot be ignored. Anyway, this song counting exercise (there are good and bad songs, five stars only good song, three stars mixed, one star only bad songs) doesn't quite work out. 4) That said I sometimes think I should write more one or two stars reviews just to even things out and make the higher ones look more worthwhile. Actually three stars look underwhelming but actually I give three stars to stuff that I think is still pretty good but for one reason or another not at 4 or 5 - sometimes because their qualities don't quite fit this site. But I don't think I rate albums too high, rather I don't put time into evaluating and reviewing stuff that I don't like enough. (Actually recently I don't have enough time for good reviews either, so it's rather a general condition...) |
Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: October 08 2019 at 09:31
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This is why a 5 star system is pretty useless. Are any of us legitimately going to give an album we consider 90-95% perfect an 80% rating? Even a c+ album is more likely to tip the scales to a 4 star for most. ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow">  https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: October 08 2019 at 09:48
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Do you have personal favourite rating systems? I think I discovered at some point that I can differentiate on a 10-point scale with half points (surprisingly these are 21 or 19 different grades, depending on whether I start at 0 or 1). Can't make much sense of more, feel constrained with less.
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Posted By: wiz_d_kidd
Date Posted: October 08 2019 at 10:01
I usually only review albums that I own. I generally don't buy an album if I don't like it, so most of my reviews end up on the higher end of the scale. The exception has been when bands approach me to review their material and give me a copy for free. Then if I don't like it, it ends up on the low end of the scale.
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Grumpyprogfan wrote:Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: October 08 2019 at 10:13
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I have given out a fairly large number of five stars over
the 11 years and couple thousand albums I’ve rated (about 450), but I do prefer
to rate and review albums that I want public attention drawn to. As Lewian
said, I tend to want to give a shout out for the albums that excite me (or to
express my shock/surprise at highly rated albums that I detest). My 25% is certainly higher than OP’s suggestion of 5%, yet I
have only ever rated one album with one star and about 50 with two stars. The
reason for this, which I’ve tried to explain before, is that, as a musician
with some insider perspectives to the process of studio recording, I appreciate
and applaud the talents, skills,
time, and resources it takes to put together and publish as album. My mantra as I’m listening to an album with
the idea of writing a review is: “Could I do better?” I consider myself a two star artist and have created my own
correlating classification system. Usually, I come up with the conclusion that
an album is “good” (better than I could pull together) or “excellent” (offering
interesting twists and turns that I enjoy and appreciate) or “masterful” when
it exhibits artistry and creativity in laudable quantities and levels. So I ask all you raters: Can you do the album that you’re reviewing as
well or better than the artists and production team has done it? If so, then,
depending on how accomplished a musician/artist you are, is the album deserving
of the 4 star “Excellent” tab, the 3 star “Good, but not essential”
assignation, or the 2 star “fans/collectors only”? (And, then, WHO—what artist
that went through the work to produce an album of songs and art—deserves a one
star rating? Could you really do it better?) As I look at the list of all of the albums to which I’ve
given 5 star assignations, I recognize a good number that might be more
deserving of the 4 star rating, but I hate to negate the initial enthusiasm I
had for an album. Also, I see some albums on the list that I gave 4 star ratings
to that I might now appreciate and revere more highly. Should we all review and
re-evaluate our lists from time to time? Or should an album’s appreciation
remain stagnant for time immemorial? As the PA Login prompt challenges us: “Edit
your old reviews & ratings”!!! ------------- Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: Meltdowner
Date Posted: October 08 2019 at 10:23
| I wish I could review here without ratings, I feel like I'm ruining the system for people who actually care about it. |
Posted By: TCat
Date Posted: October 08 2019 at 10:29
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Wow, there are a lot of excellent comments here. I find I agree with most of them to one extent or another. I've always personally rated things on a system of 10, and I still basically do that, but for the purpose of PA, I do what a lot of raters seem to do, say it's a 3.5 in my head for example. Then I think about the album overall and whether it should either round up to 4 stars or round down to 3 stars taking everything into consideration. I also like to rate an album according to how well it expresses it's ideas or concepts, and that trait can come into consideration when rounding a rating up or down. Then, something else that I have done since reviewing for PA, is that I have, in my own mind, an imaginary 6th star, where the perfect albums reside. These are the albums that stand the test of time, so usually an album doesn't get that status in my own head until it has proven itself to me over time. "Close to the Edge" is one of those, and I think most would agree, but then I also think Ambrosia's debut album is a 6 star, and not so many people would go along with that. ------------- https://ibb.co/8x0xjR0" rel="nofollow"> |
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: October 08 2019 at 10:43
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It looks like I rate about 1/3 of my ratings as 5 star but in my defense I only rate albums with 4 or 5 stars as I'm only really interested in rating albums I really like rather than everything I've given enough of a listen to to rate. If I was to go through my whole collection it would be a lot lower percentage but overall I'd still skew to 3 stars and above as I don't tend to hang onto albums I don't like. ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: October 08 2019 at 10:44
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I don't disagree that 5 stars is doled out too easily here. But, as a few others have stated or hinted, for me a 5 star album isn't necessarily about every song being great or no tracks being filler, but rather about its greatness as a unit. That it possesses some sort of inspiration as a cohesive entity. It doesn't even need to be a concept album to have these traits. It might suck you into its unique atmosphere or mood, or charm you with its stylistic versatility. It would be difficult to rate an album with all 5 star songs as being worth less than 5 stars, but that would be the minority of albums I would give 5 stars to. I might even think of a few albums without a single 5 star song that are still 5 star albums
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Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: October 08 2019 at 11:03
MMA allows half stars. I would be likely to give 4.5 to several of my 5's on PA. Gnosis uses a 15 point system which I find unintuitive. Ultimately a 10 point system always seems to make the most sense. ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow"> https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: October 08 2019 at 11:08
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The recent discussion on one-star albums compelled me to look at my ratings (I have written relatively few reviews) and I saw more single stars than I remember giving out. As to five-star ratings, I have several criteria: 1) The criteria found here on ProgArchives. 2) Staying power, for myself and for others as well as I can determine it. 3) Quality of the music and the performances. 4) Subjective and personal reasons. This is a point where I may inflate the rating, but I am okay with that. Something that affects me greatly is something I thing everybody should pay attention to. This leads to some potential oddities. For example, my least favorite album of the PG era of Genesis is Foxtrot, yet as I said in my review, I cannot but give it five stars. I am not alone in that rating. Also, I am a little more positive than most by giving Deep Purple's Burn five stars, but that is not just due to the excellence of the album but for my own private reasons that it is the first album I ever bought. But then there is always a subjective element to reviews and ratings, even from those who are in the biz or well versed in music. In contrast, I gave the album We're Only in it for the Money one star, even though it is rated a respectable 4.11 in general. ------------- The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty" |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: October 08 2019 at 11:19
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I'm pretty much in-line with Lewian's first three points in particular, and don't have that much to add to it. As to a BrufordFreak point, could I make the albums as well? Well, I'm not much of a musician, and I don't think you need to be or to be music professional to critique music or share an opinion. I may not be a concert pianist, but I could hear the difference between a 3 year year old beginner pianist trying to duplicate Liszt and a concert pianist. That said, I wouldn't judge them on the same grounds, but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't consider the concert pianists performance to be objectively better. I also wouldn't judge each performance based on me being the better pianist than the beginner and worse than the concert pianist. I did put a fair amount of work into my "Nineteen-Eighty Whore", which is more of a musical, but I never did complete it. I could as I know very good musicians, but I also feel it's not good enough (even conceptually) to ask for help or slog on with it. I would rather keep my ratings and reviews separate. I've been more interested in reading film reviews than music reviews, and tended to favour those that didn't use rating systems. Most of my ratings at PA were done when the quick rating feature came out over a decade ago, and one will find various 5 stars for albums by bands that I was very into (say, Art Zoyd and Magma, both having various 5 star albums in my estimation). I cannot claim one masterpiece, even though of the Magma studio albums, I tend to favour Kobaia. Cos is one of my favourite bands, and I enjoy several of the bands albums equally (three being five star albums in my books), and I can say the same of many bands (that said, put a gun to my head, and I'll say Viva Boma). Those ratings without reviews worked more as a guide to my tastes than anything else. I don't claim those to be objective, and recognise the subjective nature of musical appreciation (it is a relationship between the music and the listener). To mathematically quantify albums would not be my way, and do feel that an album is more than just the sum of its parts. When I have written reviews, then my ratings have been less generous -- when reviewing I have tended to rate albums lower than my appreciation would seem to warrant. I have well over a thousand albums in my collection, and have only reviewed and rated albums in my collection. I like the music in my collection. When a team member, I did listen to some albums attentively that I didn't much enjoy, but I wouldn't have enjoyed putting the effort into reviewing those. I wouldn't want to write a review without having listened to an album many times, and having lived with it for a while. I want to feel that I personally know that album well (I have a relationship with it, generally platonic). ;) If I'm interested enough to get to know an album well, then I'm finding appreciation in the album. Sometimes albums haven;t opened themselves up to me at first, but over time I grew to love them. If the music seems totally anathema to me, I'm not likely to make the effort. Some people rate and review after only hearing an album once, often by streaming, but I would not be comfortable doing that. Some even rate and review without hearing the album in full (or at all in some extreme cases, which is violation of site policy). Nor would I be comfortable forcing myself to listen to an album that does nothing for me, let alone formally evaluating it. I would much rather review albums that I care deeply about. On a side-note, there are films that I love that are deeply flawed from a technical standpoint, and might well be considered bad (those so bad, they're good ones). I can think of some albums that I hold the same relationship with -- I think in those cases my reviews would be more positive and joyous than my rating would seem to indicate. Those would be fun to review. As I think it;s important to try to get to know and live with an album before reviewing it, and I would rather review in genres that I feel knowledgeable about, of course that will skew things, as I'm not a masochist, and given time I probably would find more to appreciate. The ratings don't mean much to me except as an indicator of an individual's taste. A good review shows a depth of knowledge. The reviews mean the most to me that are able to describe the music and compare it well to similar music. If one lacks familiarity with the musical idiom, then the review is not likely to be useful to me. ------------- Just a fanboy passin' through. |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: October 08 2019 at 12:39
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I have never given any lp a 5 star rating...not one. In all fairness is there an album that is that perfect ..? Really..? I'll give 4.9....maybe ;) ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: TCat
Date Posted: October 08 2019 at 12:40
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To be able to write reviews for items you don't necessarily like, you have to enjoy writing reviews as well as enjoying the media (music, movies, books, etc.). I can understand only writing reviews for the albums you like, but a critic enjoys writing the hows and whys of what makes something good or bad, just like Logan enjoys writing critical essays on movies, but would rather only review music he enjoys. There is nothing wrong with that, we're all different. I think it's important to have both on a site, but maybe there could be a distinction.??.! ------------- https://ibb.co/8x0xjR0" rel="nofollow"> |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: October 08 2019 at 13:10
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While we're at it, I don't find the "official" description of ratings terribly helpful. They're partly referring to quality ("excellent/good/poor"), partly to who should buy it ("Collectors/fans only") and partly to its status in the prog world ("essential/excellent addition to prog rock collection"). Taken literally we are not really asked how much we like an album personally, rather it is implied that there's something like an objective prog quality, i.e., if I rate an album badly, this implies that I think only completionists or fans/collectors may find it of any value. Not so! Also I always struggle to apply this to music at or beyond the fringes of prog; I may find that the quality of an album is 5 star but it surely isn't "essential prog" (as its location within prog may be very doubtful), and I may end up giving 4, or 3 to an album that is excellent but not "as addition to a prog rock collection". In principle I agree that it is to some extent possible to distinguish between whether purely personal taste makes an album worthwhile to me, or whether there are more generalisable criteria, so it's fine that the descriptions are not just "I love it to pieces/I like it a lot/I like it/I'm at best lukewarm/I hate it"... but I think "only XXX should buy this" is rather inappropriate, and I also don't like much that on top of quality I'm also asked to take into account "progginess" and prog status for rating; that case should have been closed upon inclusion in the archives. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 08 2019 at 13:34
5 stars doesn't mean perfect, it means a masterpiece of prog which are almost always imperfect, e.g. TfTO, Brainsalad, or Court. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: October 08 2019 at 13:48
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^^^ It's partially a limitation of mine, I've both formally and informally studied film theory and film history, but am not that comfortable with music theory. I'm not totally illiterate when it come to music, I can at least read sheet music, and play a few instruments not that well (I was in youth orchestra, but didn't keep up with it). I haven't written a film review in quite a few years. I have written quite a few formal essays on film, but none on music, and I have not written many music reviews period. I actually would quite like to write review for what is generally considered a very bad album (it;s not in PA), but I love in its own way: The Shagg's Philosophy of the World. If just rating it for enjoyment, I would give it a high score, but if I tried to be more objective? That would be hard, as I might bias it to much towards other people's expectations, and not judge it for what it is to me. I would much prefer to review films I think poor than albums as I there are more avenues and approaches that I'd feel comfortable exploring. Music is that much more abstract, I'd say, commonly. A good review, and reasonably objective rating, requires a deep sense of understanding of the subject matter and expression. If I were willing to take the time to feel adequately familiar with the music, and similar means of expression, I'd be likely to appreciate it in various ways. While I can appreciate a certain modesty there (though it doesn't always indicate modesty as I've seen acerbic ones which say that), I don't like reviews where the reviewer makes it clear that they don't get it. I have yet to find a review of value where the person said they don't get it, and if a person doesn't "get it", the individual rating is not likely to be of value to me. I have seen various highly critical reviews that are well thought-out and nuanced, and a good case has been made for the poor rating. They have made the problems clear, and those don't just reflect on what they enjoy. There's ever a certain bias, but the more one knows, the better and more precise one may be with the criticism. If I'm going to put the effort into writing music reviews, it will be particularly because I wish to share my appreciation for an album. Perhaps if the writing was its own reward, and I didn't mind taking the time to attentively listen to music that holds no appeal, then I would review more, shall I say, substandard releases, but unless I felt that I "got" the musical expression, and could liken it to similar music that I also "got", then I still wouldn't want to. I have seen one star music reviews that start along the lines of: "I don't get why anyone would like this sh**???!!! It's total crap. I've tried a few songs on UTube from this crap "genre" and they sucked as much as this crap sucks. The album starts with suck, fast-forward, it still sucks! Don't buy this! Get Camel-Toe instead as Camel-Toe is great and sounds nothing like this! One star! I'd give it zero if I could cause it sucks that bad. P.S. It sucks!" A review from ignorance is not good. I wouldn't want to write music reviews, or rate music, about the kinds of music I'm not into. I do think those who pay closer attention to the album, and give it multiple spins and time to sink again are much more likely to find something to appreciate, else why waste time on it when you could be listening to something you enjoy? That said, I'm all for trying to step outside of one's comfort zone, but don't be too quick in publicly criticising it. You might even grow to like it. I don't like the descriptors for the ratings -- had some earlier topics on that. ------------- Just a fanboy passin' through. |
Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: October 08 2019 at 13:54
It's well known that Pawn Hearts is prog perfection. ------------- |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 08 2019 at 14:30
Well said. One thing I hate is when someone says "in my opinion"-- we know it's your friggin' opinion, it detracts from the review, weakens the writer's position, and as you point out reveals a lack of confidence. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: October 08 2019 at 15:45
I feel slightly bad about it now but I admit to getting on a member's case here for giving a five star rating to an Andrew Roussak album. The release had no bass sound. How can you give a five star rating to an album with no bass? 
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Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: October 08 2019 at 16:30
How did Prince's "When Dove's Cry" create a funk sound that made it to #1 on the pop charts with no bass. Same reason. -------------  https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: TCat
Date Posted: October 08 2019 at 17:51
Same thing with Meghan Trainor's "Its All About that Bass". I wonder if she knows what bass is because there is hardly any bass in that song. Its all about the treble.  ------------- https://ibb.co/8x0xjR0" rel="nofollow"> |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: October 08 2019 at 18:13
I never realized that song had no bass in it. I guess you got me there.
However, it's always been probably my least favorite song on that album so now I think I know why. Sorry but I have to have bass.  |
Posted By: Prog Sothoth
Date Posted: October 08 2019 at 18:27
Well, this is a prog rock site, which would attract major prog fans who want to share the prog they like with other prog fans. So I would expect an impassioned stance towards favorite prog albums. If acts like Celine Dion, Michael Bolton, Imagine Dragons and BTS were added to this site due to some seismic cosmic dimensional shift in the universe, then I would expect a bit of a different ratio between 5 and 1 star ratings here. Sure, there maybe a few raters here who only love a few prog groups enough to join this site while actively hating all the rest, but I would guess that they would show up, blow their wad, and disappear soon afterwards.
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Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: October 08 2019 at 18:50
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I give 5 star ratings to perfect or close to perfect albums. Sometimes i round up 4.5 albums if i think they deserve it. Perfect doesn't mean every track is equal. Some tracks are designed to be filler but the album has to flow and it has to be innovative. Occasionally an album isn't exactly innovative but it simply perfects a style that has been around but hasn't reached its logical conclusion. Sometimes an album just blows me away so substantially that it gets a 5 star rating because it's so far out of the box that it is incomparable to anything else and just takes me to that magic music place. I have no problem giving any album 5 stars if it really deserves it. There are many albums that i love personally but don't give five stars because they have flaws. I always rate and review based on the album's merits, not my personal fondness however it can influence whether i round up or down given our whole star system. ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: October 09 2019 at 00:44
sometimes it get's political if we don't like a particular album being so lowly rated. I admitted this with Glass Hammer's Three Cheers For The Broken Hearted which I gave 5 stars for. However should we allow personal taste to come into it? I gave 1 star to Jeff Wayne's War Of The Worlds because I just don't want to listen to it anymore but obviously it's not a complete write off. I think we are in a very grey area here and highly subjective opinion is up against the intellectual need to recognise that maybe something is not that bad despite not liking it. Generally I let my personal stance win out but that is probably wrong!
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Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: October 09 2019 at 01:09
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Lol, this place is so bored and dead we've now come to accost our own star rating system. ------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: October 09 2019 at 04:48
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The distinction between "personal taste" and "objective/an album's true merit" is problematic and a very fine line. On one hand, as I wrote earlier, I can make a distinction between appreciating something for very personal reasons that I wouldn't necessarily expect to generalise, and for reasons that can be explained and communicated and where there is a certain amount of agreement about key criteria for rating music. However, even these are very much up for interpretation and change over time, and they are ultimately the result of social exchange and communication, often dominated by a few people's personal tastes. Ultimately I think that objectivity doesn't exist, at least not in the sense of being truly independent of individual tastes. The music experience is created by the listener, and there is no music experience without the listener's personality, experience, and taste. What there is, as mentioned earlier, is an honest attempt to make sense and understand every music on its own terms (where "understanding" doesn't mean "finding its objective value" but rather "finding individual access"), to go beyond the purely intuitive personal reaction to music, to "work" on the own perception and to discover, and communication that tries to relate to criteria and experiences that are meaningful and informative for those who read the review. It's about good deep listening and communication, not about objectivity and "true quality".
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Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: October 09 2019 at 07:27
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I want to thank all who responded with comments. I don't agree with most of the opinions shared on this post but that is just me. I can't express myself well with words and that is why I don't review. Ratings are all I'm cut out to do. Thanks to everyone who takes the time to write reviews. Most of them are worth reading on this website, even if I don't agree. Not so much on the ZON.
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Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: October 09 2019 at 08:11
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One of the benefits of having just a 5 tiered rating system is that it forces you to choose between clearly demarcated criteria. We may not agree with the criteria but advocating increasing the resolution to say, awarding half stars only serves to confirm that said criteria are considered insufficient for our purposes. All of which begs the question: what is the purpose of a review? is it to provide your own personal appraisal and insight to the music or simply to provide a comparative 'score' to help with a potential purchasing decision? I like to think that PA are above the likes of TripAdvisor (Krautrock cosmiche references aside)  ------------- 
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Posted By: TerLJack
Date Posted: October 09 2019 at 09:12
I would definitely go along with that!
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Posted By: M27Barney
Date Posted: October 09 2019 at 10:57
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Music definately does have objective qualia. The tempo, recording style, studio location, difficulty in reproducing etc...but the rating is always judged on subjective analysis... ------------- Play me my song.....Here it comes again....... |
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: October 09 2019 at 12:00
| In my case, it needs to be more than just a great record to get five stars. It needs to stand the test of time. Some great albums eventually sound dated, like most of the Beatle music for example, whereas others remain always relevant, even if a few decades have passed, and those are the ones that get the 5 stars, at lest on my own list of favorite albums of all time. |
Posted By: friso
Date Posted: October 10 2019 at 06:44
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Giving the five star ratings is also about sharing your love for music. Let's not be to harsh about such a fine thing. ------------- I'm guitarist and songwriter for the prog-related band Mother Bass. Find us at http://www.motherbass.com. I also enter stages throughout the Netherlands performing my poetry. |
Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: October 10 2019 at 07:55
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Some very knowledgeable people may try to give truly objective reviews and ratings, but I guess that subjectivity unavoidably comes into play in most cases. If I review now my list of reviews, most of which were written more than 5 years ago, I still stand by my 5-star ratings. Perhaps I would only demote one or two albums to 4 stars. |
Posted By: miamiscot
Date Posted: October 10 2019 at 08:10
| My ratings are skewed high because I don't want to rate an album I don't know well and I never get there with albums I dislike... |
Posted By: M27Barney
Date Posted: October 10 2019 at 08:56
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^ Surely a rule of thumb...but I reckon that certain classic prog releases have been targeted for outrageous downgrading by reviewers who may even never heard it! I had a conversation with a young geezer in a local beer shop who was wearing an Opeth T-shirt and he trotted out a 1976 cliche about over indulgent pomposity culprits Genesis, Yes and ELP...but he admitted he had not bothered to listen to any of them! ------------- Play me my song.....Here it comes again....... |
Posted By: admireArt
Date Posted: October 12 2019 at 19:57
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https://genius.com/Bob-dylan-all-along-the-watchtower-lyrics#note-1236303" rel="nofollow - "There must be some way out of here" https://genius.com/Bob-dylan-all-along-the-watchtower-lyrics#note-1236304" rel="nofollow - "There's too much confusion I DO AGREE THAT 5 STARS ARE THROWN LIKE IF NOTHING. Opposite of being beneficial, it actually makes the whole thing senseless. IMNHO.
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: October 12 2019 at 21:04
| Yep. I have noticed that when an album is brand new all the fanboys(and fangirls)will immediately give it a five star rating when it's unlikely they have even heard it more than twice. |
Posted By: Walkscore
Date Posted: October 13 2019 at 16:13
| I always like to listen to an album multiple times, and over a number of months, before I rate it. For me, only the top 50-100 albums of all time could be 5-star albums, and I always take into account the whole album. |
Posted By: admireArt
Date Posted: October 13 2019 at 16:23
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Yep! but trying to tell overraters about it!! |
Posted By: admireArt
Date Posted: October 13 2019 at 16:25
or the weed they are into  ....>? |
Posted By: admireArt
Date Posted: October 13 2019 at 16:28
 really?
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Posted By: dougmcauliffe
Date Posted: October 13 2019 at 17:52
| Yeah some people are way too liberal with their 5 star ratings. Before I rate something I think of some of the 5 star bench marks. Foxtrot, Animals, Moonmadness... and then I think, "is this in the same league or come close." Not all 5 stars are created equally however. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: October 14 2019 at 13:12
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I think that too know how liberal someone is being with ratings, it really helps to understand their tastes, what they personally value, how they approach music, and what they think about the music. While I'm not really into the rating thing, and only rated lots when testing out the quick rating feature after it was implemented, and would be less liberal with my ratings now (I don't feel like going back and editing those, and my tastes/ interests have rather changed in that time), I would like to compare it to my favourite albums that make similar music/ are of similar styles. I don't like Foxtrot or Moonmadness much (prefer Moonmadness), but I likely would still give theme threes even though they wouldn't make my top 1000 favourite albums (Foxtrot would be more like a two in terms of my personal taste). My ratings here won't tell one much except how much I have valued albums, and my estimation is not static. My benchmarks will differ from another's. I do like to compare to my favourite in the category/ similar albums. If I were rating/ reviewing an electronic music album, I might not be comparing it to a symphonic prog album and basing my rating that way. I do much prefer it when people are explicitly comparing for rating and reviewing purposes to other music as similar as possible. What often bothers me is that many genuinely seem to confuse the subjective, individual nature of music (that relationship between the material and the listener) with objective evaluation. I don't want people to say IMHO, but phrase things in such a way that its clear when one is speaking from one's perspective and making broad claims. I tend to avoid making statements such as "This is good" and "this is bad" unless I feel that I can objectively back it up, and try to differentiate that from my personal experience. There is music I consider bad using various objective measures but love. One can be objective in certain ways, but enjoyment is personal. I've seen quite a few bad musical comparisons made to justify the ratings which exhibits ignorance (that said, as individuals we might associate differently). ------------- Just a fanboy passin' through. |
Posted By: I prophesy disaster
Date Posted: October 14 2019 at 13:39
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So far since I've joined PA, I've never written a review or rated any album, though I do have a desire to do so. However, I can't see myself giving any album a rating less than 5 stars, simply because those are the albums that I would want to write a review or rate. It doesn't mean that there aren't albums that I think deserve a lower rating, only that such albums don't interest me enough to devote my time to them. ------------- No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man. |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: October 14 2019 at 14:06
Exactly. Relatively few post 70's albums can match the well established classics or come close. Let's face it. Those seventies bands set the bar pretty high so for most later bands to even come anywhere near even their average or not quite top tier albums is an accomplishment. Even a four star rating means the album is pretty excellent and is nothing to sneeze at. I do think a lot of people give the five star rating here too easily though so I agree with you for sure.
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Posted By: patrickq
Date Posted: October 14 2019 at 21:20
Well put. Each of us has his or her own definition of “five stars,” and I’m not sure it’s productive to lament that others don’t share our definitions. But who says forum threads and posts have to be productive?
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: October 14 2019 at 23:59
| I've said many times before but consistency is overrated. Just not having a stinker on an album is not enough. I think that at the end of day 'feeling' is just as valid as anything. The top 20 albums largely makes sense so the overall big picture is still intact. |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 28 2019 at 11:21
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I've been seeing endless 5 star reviews on the PA home page lately. I've no doubt that the albums reviewed are very good but are they an essential to a prog collection? Do they really define what prog rock is and set a standard for their respective sub genre? The same holds true with many 1 star reviews. Are these albums so unredeemable that there's absolutely nothing of value to be found on them? What gives?
------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: dougmcauliffe
Date Posted: October 28 2019 at 11:43
| For example, resistance by IQ |
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: October 28 2019 at 11:49
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A majority of my reviews are 5 stars, because I like reviewing albums I love. Perhaps, other folks feel the same way? They'd rather review an album they love than an album they despise or feel is mediocre. That said, I handed out a total of two- 5 stars ratings in 2018. (All Traps on Earth, and Galahad's " Sea's of Change). My average rating is near 3.00 flat. With 11 out of 22 subgenres below 3.00 and 11 above. For example: Out of 185 symphonic prog albums, my average rating is 3.04. 148 Cross Over albums- average of 2.89.
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Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: October 28 2019 at 12:04
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There is a thread about this, where some PA reviewers explain their rating rationale. I think there are way to many five star reviews, here and on places like the zon. I own close to 1000 discs but seriously only about 50 of those (5%) deserve a five star rating. I was the odd man out on the thread I mentioned. |
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: October 28 2019 at 12:29
I'd have to have a very good reason NOT to give any of my all-time favourite albums less than five stars, and in the case of Arzachel's sole album, I gave it four stars instead of five for the poor production quality, even though I loved the music. Maybe when I've run out of all-time favourite five-star albums to review, I'll start reviewing albums that only deserve four stars in my own subjective opinion.  By the way, I reviewed another five-star album today, Khan's "Space Shanty", and many other reviewers gave the album five stars too, simply because it's a superb album that truly deserves five stars.
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: October 28 2019 at 12:34
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I give your topic one star... ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: October 28 2019 at 12:35
That's funny.
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Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: October 28 2019 at 12:37
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http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=121128" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=121128 . Here is the link to the 5 star review thread.
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Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: October 28 2019 at 12:49
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I don't give out five-star ratings willy-nilly. I've gone into great derail in each of my ten reviews so far to explain why an album truly deserves five stars in nine out of ten of those reviews. To give any of those superb albums any less than five stars would be a travesty, but that's just my own personal opinion, for what it's worth. I doubt very much if I would give an album five stars if I just picked one out at random, but I'm very selective in the albums I review - I only choose the albums to review which appeal to me most of all.
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 28 2019 at 12:56
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Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: October 28 2019 at 13:13
Chances are that reviews are most often read by fans of the band who know the album already, but they can be very valuable for somebody who doesn't know an album yet for deciding what to check out. For this decision process, mediocre and negative reviews can also be very helpful, at least if the album and the reasons for not liking it are well described. Seeing 5 stars all over the place is not very informative.
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Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: October 28 2019 at 13:36
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Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: October 28 2019 at 13:42
Yes, of course it's an appreciation piece when I give an album a five-star rating, because it's a subjectively personal review of an album I truly love.
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Posted By: Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Date Posted: October 28 2019 at 13:44
Word, Cindy...It's a joy to rant and fawn about albums that mean so much to us, that you want to spread the word about far and wide. But I don't have the mental headspace, time or energy to devote to being negative towards albums I dislike, and putting that into words...I'll simply quietly grumble about them to myself! For me, life's too short to rubbish the effort of others 
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Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: October 28 2019 at 13:57
I'm in total agreement with both of you. I'd much rather be positive and give a much-loved album a well-deserved five-star rating instead of deliberately picking out an album I dislike intensely and rubbishing it by giving it a one or two star rating, and besides, I simply haven't got time to waste on listening to and reviewing albums I don't like.
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Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: October 28 2019 at 14:27
I wish my reviews were half as insightful as yours Michael. I recite your reviews aloud like Christmas tinseled poetry, tongue-tied and tied to my tongue.
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Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: October 28 2019 at 15:07
I can't help feeling the criticism over five-star album reviews is being especially levelled at me, or to paraphrase Carly Simon, is it a case of "You're So Vain (I Bet You Thought This Thread Is About You)". |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: October 28 2019 at 15:08
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Hi, This is the hard part of a "review". IF a review is nothing but a note that this person loves this album ... you might as well go do this for all the huge studios and companies that love advertising ... because you know they own a part of that money otherwise a "review" is not there ... why would USA Today do any musicians, unless the Murdoch folks did not have a large (very large, too!!!) interest in the music business? As a film reviewer, and I have been doing this for 40 years, it is necessary that we curb our enthusiasm, sometimes, because in a week's time, I will not appreciate the whole thing as I did 7 days ago ... and this is the case with ALL of my reviews ... I love them today just like I did the very first day I heard them. And my reviews are usually more detailed in terms of technical something or other (specially in film!!!) which adds a perception to the work that makes it different than the rest ... two great examples, that I can still watch today, and cry so many times ... BLADE RUNNER and LADYHAWKE ... surprisingly enough they have the same actor in it, and he is excellent in both of them ... but the directing touches with the music, is some of the very best EVER DONE in film and rivals the likes of David Lean, and Nicolas Roeg, the two best folks in terms of making use of music in the film (we will discuss Bernard Herrman and the Sci-Fy films separately!) ... not only is the idea right, the theme in the music even stands out! Nicolas Roeg, by himself, just about started the MTV thing with video ... and that song? MEMO FROM TURNER with Mick Jagger and seeing it in the film, tells you that Mick knew what he was doing and he added that part to the character and film ... which made it even better all around. Within a rock context, I don't dislike many of the reviews, with one exception ... too many of them are I like this or I don't like that, and sadly this is one of the things that LOWERS THE QUALITY of the work, and the responses to it ... the reviewer did not really specify why there is a like or a dislike ... just did or didn't ... not to mention that some reviews are so small they should be removed because that is NOT a review, even though folks here have this stupid idea that shorter is better ... yeah ... well folks ... remember that "progressive music" was not about being shorter ... it was about expression and being longer and more thorough in its expression ... Where do you stand? Lastly ... there is content that really hurts in many of these reviews ... doing ITCOTCK as a bunch of songs for today's markets, and listeners, hurts the album ... if any band did that today, exactly as it is, no one would bother listening to it, because it is so uneven and so weird, and so out there ... when in essence, what no one wants to see is the snap shot of those days and times ... and the words are about EVERYTHING that we were all about in those days ... and taking that out of the reviews is really sad ... you just took the soul out of the work ... reminds me of the lab portion in high school that you go about finish killing off the frog! A lot folks here continually rag me on ... I don't care, I like it ... or don't like it, or I use too many words ... in the end, who is the more artistic and caring about the work? I'm still writing about it, as are so many folks here, BECAUSE THEY CARE.
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: October 28 2019 at 15:28
| Yeah, it does seem like a lot of people do join the site to champion their favourite albums and the fanboy-ism makes some of these reviews cringe worthy....though I do like that PA allows anyone to write reviews. Actually, when I look back on a few of my early reviews I think I might need to rewrite them :) |
Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: October 28 2019 at 15:41
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This thread is along the same lines as the best=favorite thread. We tend to review the albums that mean the most to us, and so for many there is an over-abundance of five star ratings. I try to limit those, as I try to limit one star ratings, but there are some that I have rated purely from my own enjoyment or for sentimental reasons. For example, I give Burn by Deep Purple five stars because it was the first album I purchased. Is it that classic? From a more objective point of view I would say it deserves four stars. On the other hand, I rate Porcupine Tree's Fear of a Blank Planet three stars at best, maybe two, but it ties for their highest rated on this site. The value of having member reviews is that we get a number of perspectives. Not all those reviews have substance, but we can still use them to draw our own conclusions of what we might be interested in whether it is an old favorite artist or a new band. We are a diverse lot her, and we do not have to agree with one another on a particular album. ------------- The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty" |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: October 28 2019 at 15:47
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Ugh I made a mistake (shouldn't have merged five star reviews with five star ratings, how stupid of me as the ratings topic does not focus just on reviews with ratings). Sorry about that. ------------- Just a fanboy passin' through. |
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: October 28 2019 at 15:58
I didn't join the site to write album reviews. I joined originally to READ album reviews and write blogs. It was only after I'd been here a few weeks that it occurred to me I could make a contribution to ProgArchives by writing album reviews too.
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: October 28 2019 at 16:12
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I think I said it earlier in this thread, but I'd rather rate, review and give recognition to the albums that I love. Of the relatively few reviews that I have written (written more bios), I have liked to live with the album for a while and have given it multiple spins including a spin while writing my review and just before writing my review. I wouldn't want to have to do that with albums I'm not enthusiastic about. If I'm not enthusiastic about an album, I'm not going to be enthusiastic about listening attentively enough times to be comfortable writing a review, or particularly enjoy writing a review. Maybe I might quite like writing a review for a one star album, going all ultraviolent in style, as that brutality might be fun, but listening to it wouldn't. The middling, mediocre to my tastes, albums would be the least fun in terms of writing the reviews for me. If I don't enjoy something, then I don't tend to give it attention, and I've become very good at picking up albums that will hold my interest and suit my tastes very well. My collection is largely superb according to my discriminating tastes. ;) ------------- Just a fanboy passin' through. |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: October 28 2019 at 17:05
Hey Paul, I wasn't referring to you
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Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: October 28 2019 at 17:11
That's reassuring to know.
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Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: October 28 2019 at 17:17
I've always got the option to downgrade my five-star album reviews to four stars at a later date if I subsequently decide I may have overrated them, but I doubt if I will.
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Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: October 28 2019 at 18:18
You mentioned Kate Bush's "The Dreaming" album:- That's a good example of how an album can differ tremendously in ratings from one reviewer to another, because if I was reviewing that album, I couldn't justifiably give it more than a two-star rating as I find it unlistenable, even though I'm a fan of Kate Bush's albums generally. "The Dreaming" was just too experimental for my taste, but that's just my own subjective opinion.
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Posted By: dougmcauliffe
Date Posted: October 28 2019 at 18:37
| Something that was offputting to me was the amount of 5 star reviews that resistance by IQ got within 1 or 2 days of being released. Is that even long enough to know if a 2 Hour album is essential and masterful? |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: October 28 2019 at 18:44
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What makes any album a masterpiece? And should I rate an album five stars that I hate because it seems to have merit to others? My ratings reflect on my appreciation. A review can be a formal critique that examines something using strict criteria or a very subjective assessment, and it can contain both. It's a rare music review that is not opinion-based, that would merely describe the music, and make relevant associations etc., without saying anything about how much one enjoys it. Then there are those that make statements about how others would enjoy it or how they should appreciate it. What is a masterpiece to me may not be a masterpiece to another. What is worthwhile to me may not be worthwhile to another. An issue I have with many reviews is that they make claims that are subjective in nature as if they were objective fact, and seem to be trying to tell the reader what to think and how they should value it, when that really just says more about the reviewer's experience. As we all have different brains, we all "hear' music rather differently. After travelling into our ears it must be interpreted by our brains, and we all bring our own intellects, emotions, knowledge, our own attitudes, associations and experiences into it. The first review I looked at of Steve's, which is for Pentangle's Basket of Light (a favourite of mine) ends with "Five stars for this truly progressive folk rock milestone, as it's an album that simply should be every prog fan's collection." It should be in my collection, but I wouldn't say the same of a prog fan who is mostly into Prog Metal and dislikes folk. Or using the final paragraph for another five star review of Pentangle (this time the debut): "Classified as Folk Rock, this is one of those truly rare albums that is both genre defining as well as being genre breaking and so ahead of it's time that it sounds like something created yesterday let alone 45 years ago. An absolute essential staple for any Prog collection. While the modern rock world is busy putting the petal to the metal, these acoustic giants remain like lost stone monuments just waiting fo new civilizations to rediscover them. 5 stars" Poetic. Again, I wouldn't say it's a staple for any Prog collection. I'd be more comfortable saying that I think it quite essential for most any well-rounded late 60s British progressive folk collection. While I love various Pentangle albums, Basket of Light is for me the band's masterpiece. I do believe that a great many people are delusional in thinking that they are far more objective when it comes to music, and on what others should appreciate and acquire, than they actually are. ------------- Just a fanboy passin' through. |
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: October 29 2019 at 02:25
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I've given nine out of ten of my album reviews five-star ratings "because they're worth it", just like Jennifer Aniston in the L'Oreal ad. |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 29 2019 at 04:09
------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 29 2019 at 04:28
------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
JETHRO TULL - The Jethro Tull Christmas Album http://www.progarchives.com/EditReview.asp?revid=2272456" rel="nofollow">
JETHRO TULL - J-Tull Dot Com http://www.progarchives.com/EditReview.asp?revid=2268077" rel="nofollow">
FAIRPORT CONVENTION - Gottle O' Geer http://www.progarchives.com/EditReview.asp?revid=2112872" rel="nofollow">Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: October 29 2019 at 05:38
No offence taken. You're perfectly welcome to skip right by my album reviews. I'd just like to say though, that in the case of the nine albums I've given the full five star treatment to so far, it's not so much a case of can I justify giving all of those albums a well-deserved five star rating, it's more a case of would I be able to justify giving them only a four star rating when I regard each of those nine specially selected albums as "masterpieces", and the answer is an emphatic "NO!" But again, that's just my own personal opinion. Other opinions may vary. If I was writing album reviews for the Melody Maker or NME, then I can well understand the need for a well-balanced objective view, but as I understand it, the idea of writing album reviews here at Prog Archives is to give our own subjective views of an album and to rate the album accordingly. Albums Reviewed So Far:-  http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=1172" rel="nofollow - - Space Shanty http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=750" rel="nofollow - - Cressida http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=510" rel="nofollow - - Spring http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=826" rel="nofollow - - Paint A Picture http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=616" rel="nofollow - - Garden Shed http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=1051" rel="nofollow - - Breathe Awhile http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=2865" rel="nofollow - - Andromeda http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=9372" rel="nofollow - - Circus  http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=628" rel="nofollow - - Arzachel http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=2085" rel="nofollow - - Lemmings |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 29 2019 at 06:34
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Paul, to the prog fan Progarchives is more important MM, NME, Rolling Stone, Q and Pitchfork all combined. What's written here is important. ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: October 29 2019 at 07:15
what? 1 star for Time Line? And don't you dare lower the rating for "A Song for all Seasons"! |
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: October 29 2019 at 07:24
I should mention that I'm ultimately aiming to write PA reviews for my own personalised Top 100 list of obscure British Prog-related albums, so somewhat inevitably, I'll be giving each of those albums either a four star or five star rating, as appropriate. I could of course choose 100 albums entirely at random to review, with varied ratings, but they wouldn't be nearly so much fun to listen to or to review. The three things all of my carefully selected album reviews will have in common is, they'll all be British, they'll all be obscure to some extent, and they'll all be on my own personal list of 100 favourite albums.
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 29 2019 at 07:27
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And they'll all be your personal favorites. ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 29 2019 at 07:34
Decisions, decisions.
------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: October 29 2019 at 08:24
I say let sleeping dogs lie
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 29 2019 at 08:34
------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: dougmcauliffe
Date Posted: October 29 2019 at 08:37
| Looking at my reviews, I generally only review stuff that I either love, or think is overrated. I’m admittedly not a great reviewer or as great with words as many others around here. Several reviewers really impress me (particularly silly puppy and brufordfreak) with their thorough reviews and just how much music they listen to. |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: October 29 2019 at 08:38
I admit that sleeping dog is a lot cuter than Time Line!
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Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: October 29 2019 at 08:40
I'm impressed with Cristi's thoughtful and insightful reviews, probably because I happen to agree with most of them.
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Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: October 29 2019 at 08:43
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I don’t think “perfection” is the intended association of the 5 star rating. Mastery, masterful, and masterpiece all connote continued commitment to a journey. Plus, what is “perfection.” How can everything in its current order be anything less than perfection? Is jackie Joyner-Kersee's world record performances in the 1996 Olympics “perfection” just because they’ve held their position as “the fastest of all-time”—despite the fact that they will probably be broken sometime? Were Carl Lewis’ performances over three Olympics less than masterpieces just because his records have since been eclipsed? I’ve issued 414 5 star ratings. Divided by 52 years in which we can all agree that Prog has existed, that’s an average of eight (8) per year. (And there are many album “masterpieces” still out there waiting for me that I’ve yet to discover.) Without knowing this statistic I would have said that I find five to ten albums per year that qualify for “masterpiece” status. Do any of you here on PA propose to proclaim that there are less than ten masterful masterpieces of art produced each year within each sub genre of art? Less than ten oil landscape paintings, less than ten chess matches, less than ten architectural designs, less than ten novels, less than ten Rafa Nadal forehands, less than ten mathematical equations, etc., etc.? Mastery breeds masterful compositions, masterful performances, and masterfully rendered sound recordings. And not once in a blue moon (or 50 to 100 times). Masterpieces happen. And thank goodness they do: to provide shining examples of what heights humankind is capable. Reward mastery! Reward human creativity! Reward emotion provoking art! Applaud and shout from the rooftops the events that bring you joy, elation, catharsis, and awe. Celebrate our human journey! It’s not that difficult to do! < ="text/"> p.p1 {margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica} p.p2 {margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica; min-height: 14.0px}------------- Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: October 29 2019 at 08:44
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Beauty is in the ear of the beholder. I adore KC's Lizard and Paul hates Lizard. How do I know Paul hates Lizard? Because Paul said so. Paul's opinion won't change my 5 star rating for Lizard. Yep, Lizard is my favorite KC album. I rate RED 4 stars. Because average ratings, I surmise most folks disagree with my opinion. I don't care. That said, I plan to listen to Paul's 5 star reviews of early 70's psychedelic albums. I'm not familiar with any of them. I may find a few hidden gems. I disagree with Steve G's view that we should take into account other folks viewpoint, when rewarding a rating score. 1. How do we truly measure other's viewpoints? I can't read minds. Can you? For example, a recent study found that 97% of People believe Fame is extremely important to other's happiness. But only 3% of people said fame was important to their own happiness. My point? People don't know what other people truly think. 2. What's the point of reviewing albums, if you don't share your personal heartfelt opinion? 3. As time waxes on, the vast majority of albums find their natural level, when compared to other albums. I believe the top 100 albums to be better than the 2nd hundred albums. Anyone disagree? No system is perfect. Yeah, maybe the average album score is too high, when compared to the word-for-word definition for 1-5 star ratings. I take that phenomena into account when I read album reviews. Is there anyone reading this thread, who doesn't take such things into account? Is there anyone out there who doesn't adapt? 4. Me? Part of the fun is interpreting individual reviewer's styles. I know a score of PA reviewers styles so well, that I can tell by their descriptions whether I'll like an album or not. What I'll like and why I'll like it. Some reviewers have taken the art of review to a literary poetic level. They've made review an art form. 5. The PA reviews are my favorite part of Progarchives. Warts and all. Without the current review system, I wouldn't visit PA. PA wouldn't matter to me. |
Posted By: dougmcauliffe
Date Posted: October 29 2019 at 09:03
| I’m always hesitant to say I hate something I haven’t listened to much here. Thinking back to when I posted about how much I hated gentle giant and then a week later I was listening to them daily. Now they’re one of my favorite bands. Has anyone really liked lizard on first listen? |
Posted By: Meltdowner
Date Posted: October 29 2019 at 09:15
| ^ Lizard is my favourite KC album but it took me many spins to get into it (I think the debut was really the only I liked at first listen). The vocals are a bit distractive but try to pay attention to the many little details: the guitar phrases (love the tones of the guitars), the fabulous piano part throughout the epic, just to name a few. |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 29 2019 at 09:32
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