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Starless and Bible Black: Have At It!

Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Recommendations/Featured albums
Forum Description: Make or seek recommendations and discuss specific prog albums
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=122125
Printed Date: November 28 2021 at 16:47
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Topic: Starless and Bible Black: Have At It!
Posted By: SteveG
Subject: Starless and Bible Black: Have At It!
Date Posted: February 02 2020 at 12:00
The KC album I like a little bit more than LTiA. (But only on Mondays, Thursdays and Sundays.)

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Replies:
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: February 02 2020 at 20:54
Excellent album, one of the best in the KC discog. After the eclectic and creative nature of this masterpiece collection of tracks, follow up album, "Red' seemed like an album from a band that had run out of ideas and direction.

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"Its going to disappear, one day, its like a miracle it will disappear" - hollywood donald vs the pandemic


Posted By: dougmcauliffe
Date Posted: February 02 2020 at 21:05
Itís a mid tier king crimson album, the non improv tracks are all really solid, but the improvs just mess with the flow of the album and are a mixed bag.

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The sun has left the sky...
...Now you can close your eyes


Posted By: dougmcauliffe
Date Posted: February 02 2020 at 21:14
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Excellent album, one of the best in the KC discog. After the eclectic and creative nature of this masterpiece collection of tracks, follow up album, "Red' seemed like an album from a band that had run out of ideas and direction.


I think you got it backwards

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The sun has left the sky...
...Now you can close your eyes


Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: February 02 2020 at 21:35
Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Excellent album, one of the best in the KC discog. After the eclectic and creative nature of this masterpiece collection of tracks, follow up album, "Red' seemed like an album from a band that had run out of ideas and direction.


I think you got it backwards

Nope. "Red" has all the tedious repetitive tracks with the big heavy stadium rock sound that pointed toward this band's creative demise, "Starless and Bible Black" had the eclectic and imperfect creativity that displayed a band willing to take creative risks, a band still very much alive.

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"Its going to disappear, one day, its like a miracle it will disappear" - hollywood donald vs the pandemic


Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: February 02 2020 at 22:48
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Excellent album, one of the best in the KC discog. After the eclectic and creative nature of this masterpiece collection of tracks, follow up album, "Red' seemed like an album from a band that had run out of ideas and direction.

I agree, especially about "Red" which has many fans on PA!  SABB really shows the band at the peak of their songwriting creativity and performance chops....how can any human beside Fripp play the guitar in "Fracture?"


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I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!!


Posted By: dougmcauliffe
Date Posted: February 02 2020 at 22:58
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Excellent album, one of the best in the KC discog. After the eclectic and creative nature of this masterpiece collection of tracks, follow up album, "Red' seemed like an album from a band that had run out of ideas and direction.


I think you got it backwards

Nope. "Red" has all the tedious repetitive tracks with the big heavy stadium rock sound that pointed toward this band's creative demise, "Starless and Bible Black" had the eclectic and imperfect creativity that displayed a band willing to take creative risks, a band still very much alive.


I think red has something very important that starless tends to lack: songs. They are pretty much playing math rock on the title track, fallen angel and starless are perfect prog classics and one more red nightmare is just a damn cool song. Providence is more in line with SABB but it gets there towards the end.

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The sun has left the sky...
...Now you can close your eyes


Posted By: wiz_d_kidd
Date Posted: February 03 2020 at 09:46
Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Itís a mid tier king crimson album, the non improv tracks are all really solid, but the improvs just mess with the flow of the album and are a mixed bag.


Disagree. It's a TOP tier King Crimson album, tied for first place with Lark's Tongues and Red. I like all three for different reasons. And the improv parts are the best - especially the way "We'll Let You Know" evolves from random interplay of Fripp and Wetton into a something more structured. Improv is what defined that era of KC.

And the guitar work of Fripp on "Fracture" is still one of the most complicated guitar parts ever conceived and played. That stroke of genius alone puts the album on the top of my list.


Posted By: Argo2112
Date Posted: February 03 2020 at 10:01
SABB is in my top 3 King Crimson albums along with LTIA & Red. The title track drags it down some but Fracture, The Night Watch, & The Great Deceiver are all among my favorite KC tracks. 


Posted By: dougmcauliffe
Date Posted: February 03 2020 at 10:23
Originally posted by wiz_d_kidd wiz_d_kidd wrote:

Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Itís a mid tier king crimson album, the non improv tracks are all really solid, but the improvs just mess with the flow of the album and are a mixed bag.


Disagree. It's a TOP tier King Crimson album, tied for first place with Lark's Tongues and Red. I like all three for different reasons. And the improv parts are the best - especially the way "We'll Let You Know" evolves from random interplay of Fripp and Wetton into a something more structured. Improv is what defined that era of KC.

And the guitar work of Fripp on "Fracture" is still one of the most complicated guitar parts ever conceived and played. That stroke of genius alone puts the album on the top of my list.


In my opinion there is Just way too much downtime in the improvs and they tend to not get interesting until the final minute or two. With red, itís really exciting start to finish, where with starless, the actual songs are all great, but everything in between disrupts the flow.

I would have loved to see a SABB with less improv and more studio tracks cause they were writing strong material.

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The sun has left the sky...
...Now you can close your eyes


Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: February 03 2020 at 10:30
I think Larks, Starless & Bible & Red are kind of trilogy, not of course totally same kind of albums, but they have a lot in common. Larks & Starless & Bible are really great entities, when Red got all the other greatest tracks from these three albums, but I think Providence is the weakest improvisational track in these 3 albums. 


Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: February 03 2020 at 11:27
Great beginning and ending tunes. The rest is hit and miss for me. Overall, 3.75 stars.


Posted By: miamiscot
Date Posted: February 03 2020 at 14:56
I really love SABB. Sandwiched between two stone cold classics it does tend to get overlooked. But it's every bit as good as LTIA or Red...

(IMHO)


Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: February 03 2020 at 20:44
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

The KC album I like a little bit more than LTiA. (But only on Mondays, Thursdays and Sundays.)
I like SaBB a little bit more LTIA, but only on Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Fridays and Saturdays.

Seriously though, I really would have expressed it pretty much the same as you did. There are times when Iíve gone for Larkís in polls over SaBB, but Iíve never been comfortable with those votes. LTIA is far more dramatic and cinematic than SaBB. However, a weakness that LTIA has (which I brought out in my post in the LTIA thread) is SaBB's strength. SaBB conveys the feel of mass improvisation. It does it in large part by incorporating actual live material. However it does it though, it gets across the feeling of musicians probing and exploring, and I just love it for that. That improvisational aspect is actually the wider history of King Crimson, but SaBB is the only album that really taps into it.





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A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now)


Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: February 04 2020 at 02:14
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Excellent album, one of the best in the KC discog. After the eclectic and creative nature of this masterpiece collection of tracks, follow up album, "Red' seemed like an album from a band that had run out of ideas and direction.


I think you got it backwards

Nope. "Red" has all the tedious repetitive tracks with the big heavy stadium rock sound that pointed toward this band's creative demise, "Starless and Bible Black" had the eclectic and imperfect creativity that displayed a band willing to take creative risks, a band still very much alive.

Disagree. SABB was the clue that they were running out of steam. With that true, Red is an excellent bookend to that era of King Crimson, with "Starless" being the penultimate King Crimson track for that era. SABB is a hodge podge of songs, of which thankfully the title was extrapolated into something legitimate.

With that said, SABB feels like a stop over or a rest stop in the discography. Give me what came before and what came after any day.

Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Excellent album, one of the best in the KC discog. After the eclectic and creative nature of this masterpiece collection of tracks, follow up album, "Red' seemed like an album from a band that had run out of ideas and direction.
 

I think you got it backwards
 
Nope. "Red" has all the tedious repetitive tracks with the big heavy stadium rock sound that pointed toward this band's creative demise, "Starless and Bible Black" had the eclectic and imperfect creativity that displayed a band willing to take creative risks, a band still very much alive.
 

I think red has something very important that starless tends to lack: songs. They are pretty much playing math rock on the title track, fallen angel and starless are perfect prog classics and one more red nightmare is just a damn cool song. Providence is more in line with SABB but it gets there towards the end.

Exactly.


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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021


Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: February 04 2020 at 04:23
I much prefer Red. I only really enjoy Fracture and Night Watch from SABB.



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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!


Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: February 04 2020 at 04:32
TBH, I only like the flipside's two long tracks.
 
I don't mind some tracks (Nightwatch, Great Deceiver), but none of the rest of the A-side would "bump a track out" and find space on either Red (Providence excepted) or Aspic (its only "bumpable" track is the short Book Of Saturdays).
 
in KC's 70's discography, SANN and Islands are the weak links (I even prefer Earthbound & USA to those two)
 
 


Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: February 04 2020 at 08:36
Earthbound?

L'ťquivalent de partir avec la petite grosse moche ŗ la fermeture des bars.

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Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: February 04 2020 at 11:12
Fine KC album....but not as immediately gratifying as LTIA or Red.

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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin


Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: February 04 2020 at 19:41
I haven't actually heard this album, but I have heard just about all songs from live albums, and mostly they do nothing for me, except for Fracture, and even that one isn't among my very favourite Crimson songs. And since the Starless and Bible Black songs were greatly actually recorded from live concerts, I don't really find much of a reason to get the "studio" one.


Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: February 04 2020 at 20:21
Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Excellent album, one of the best in the KC discog. After the eclectic and creative nature of this masterpiece collection of tracks, follow up album, "Red' seemed like an album from a band that had run out of ideas and direction.


I think you got it backwards

Nope. "Red" has all the tedious repetitive tracks with the big heavy stadium rock sound that pointed toward this band's creative demise, "Starless and Bible Black" had the eclectic and imperfect creativity that displayed a band willing to take creative risks, a band still very much alive.


Disagree. SABB was the clue that they were running out of steam. With that true, Red is an excellent bookend to that era of King Crimson, with "Starless" being the penultimate King Crimson track for that era. SABB is a hodge podge of songs, of which thankfully the title was extrapolated into something legitimate.

With that said, SABB feels like a stop over or a rest stop in the discography. Give me what came before and what came after any day.

<span style="line-height: 16.5455px;">
Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Excellent album, one of the best in the KC discog. After the eclectic and creative nature of this masterpiece collection of tracks, follow up album, "Red' seemed like an album from a band that had run out of ideas and direction.
†</span><br style="line-height: 16.5455px;"><br style="line-height: 16.5455px;"><span style="line-height: 16.5455px;">I think you got it backwards
†</span><br style="line-height: 16.5455px;"><span style="line-height: 16.5455px;">Nope. "Red" has all the tedious repetitive tracks with the big heavy stadium rock sound that pointed toward this band's creative demise, "Starless and Bible Black" had the eclectic and imperfect creativity that displayed a band willing to take creative risks, a band still very much alive.
†</span><br style="line-height: 16.5455px;"><br style="line-height: 16.5455px;"><span style="line-height: 16.5455px;">I think red has something very important that starless tends to lack: songs. They are pretty much playing math rock on the title track, fallen angel and starless are perfect prog classics and one more red nightmare is just a damn cool song. Providence is more in line with SABB but it gets there towards the end.
</span><div style="line-height: 16.5455px;">
<div style="line-height: 16.5455px;">Exactly.
Exactly the opposite. Easy Money said it quite right.






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A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now)


Posted By: Braka1
Date Posted: February 07 2020 at 11:57
My favourite of the mid 70's trilogy.

Can't give you a rational explanation.  I liked that it wasn't all hard-edged and angular.

Though I love side two, tracks like 'Trio' and 'Night Watch' are real faves. 

Years later when I got into classical I was gobsmacked when I realised David Cross was channeling Vaughn Williams, 'Thomas tallis' and 'The Lark Ascending'.

Or 'ripping off'. Whichever.


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Believe me Pope Paul, my toes are clean



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