Ok, just to be clear. As a full fledged born in the snow (ok, in May but it was still cold) Let me make this perfectly clear. Triumph is about as prog as Loverboy, Streetheart or Heli. All good rock bands but NOT prog. I mean come on...really

THAT being said, Saga is a proggy pop band. I've seen them live in a bar in London ON back in thier early years. They put on a great show.

So Saga by a mile.

Saga

I do like Triumph, although it's been a while since I gave them a listen.

Triumph are still proggy enough to be prog related on here while the others are not. While I'm not an expert on Triumph I do hear prog elements in their music. Over all maybe about as proggish as Zebra(if anyone on here knows who they were). No, they aren't prog but not everything by Rush was prog either. Or Kansas or whoever. Some might argue Styx weren't prog. I guess we will have to agree to disagree about the prog element. Anyway, fwiw, wikipedia lists them as hard rock, heavy metal and progressive rock(so that's good enough for me and even more than I would say; not even sure I would call them metal either. Lol.).

well, this poll should have been in the proto/prog-related lounge.

Not too late for someone to move it(I don't have the authority though). I didn't even know they have polls there. 

Prog-related/proto, general music also.

One of these bands(Saga)is "regular" prog though so I don't see what the big deal is. That said, if a moderator wants to move it I don't have a problem with that.

For me, Triumph and Saga are cheesy AOL bands with arena rock mentalilties and an occasional prog flourish. There was so little good mainstream music that those little proggy riffs sounded great back then. Now it sounds like drek. The same with Asia, Foreigner and Styx, who I didn't like even when they came out. (Asia and Foreigner sound so cookie-cutter I want to plug my ears and Styx is like fingernails on a chalkboard).

But everyone's tastes differ, so if you like these groups, enjoy them. It doesn't mean I think you're an a--hole. We can share opinions without hate or ridicule. At least I think we can.

My buddy is into prog hardcore but he likes ... Barry Manilow. I don't know how or why, but even with that, we're still friends. Imagine.

I'm not really that into putting music into boxes though. I like other kinds of rock(including arena rock) so a little bit of  prog in otherwise mainstream sounding rock never really bothered me. It's not an all or nothing thing for me. 

Triumph without a doubt, and by a mile

Both bands were local in Toronto, along with Rush, Max Webster and FM, but Saga was the one who had the least success... All those bands played high-schools on dfriday night, except that I don't remember ever seeing Saga on that circuit.

Sure some of the Saga tracks on their first four albums were OK, but Saga was viewed as a pop band (even a synth-pop band), whereas Triumph were dirty nitty-gritty rock

Overall, I couldn't come up with a CD-r compilation of Saga (their whole career- even if I haven't heard anything in two or three decades), as there are only five or six tracks I like (Don't be late on SK being my fave). Saga was always prog-lite or not prog at all back in the pre-90's - don't know since!! ll that's interesting nowadays to me are the superb sci-fi artworks of Twilight and Knights

Triumph, on the other hand was sometimes close to prog, and if I like most of their first three album with some tremendous stuff (Blinding Light Show, The City, the two-part NY City Streets, etc...) but I can still find stuff until their fifth, though I realize that I'd probably cringe  if their were not a teen nostalgia thing.

I really disliked their stuff after Allied Forces (81), when they became a spandex-wearing AOR-Hair Metallish caricature of themselves... Which is unfortunately how they are remembered by most.

Surely that beats flatly Saga in the prog dept.

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BTW, I really liked Streetheart's first two album, and they sometimes approached proggy stuff, but too light to figure here

Fischman wrote: Saga is a pretty good group, but c'mon people. This is Trumph. Rik Emmett is easily one of the greatest guitarists EVER... truly elite. Ditto the vocals... and the songwriting. Completely different leagues here.

let's not overdo it, please...

He's quite good, and will probably scrape the bottom the top 100, but never approach the top 98

Fischman wrote: Saga may get more mentions as being prog-ish, but that shouldn't mean they get an automatic vote, even on this site.

TBH, "we" (youngs dudes in Hogtown) thought they were a little "fagotty" and certainly didn't understand how they were huge in Germany

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BTW, for those who would doubt of the veracity of all these bands (including Rush) playing high schools in Toronto during the 70's, please see Rik Emmett's testimony at 3'30"

(later on, at the 7-mins mark, they speak of Rush opening doors in which they crashed through)

I also saw bands like CANO, Goddo, Webster, Trooper, Teaze Moxy, Zon, FM, Triumph, Streetheart and plenty others that never made it to a first album.

Oddly enough, the Toronto punk scene (Diodes and Viletones) was never able to get on the circuit (Viletones frontman was called Nazyi Dog and stabbed himself on stage, drawing blood), while other bands simply hit it elsewhere  like Pat Travers Band >> UK and Frank Marino & Mahogany Rush (Texas and stuff), so they were never around

was not able to play in the HS

Going to a french-speaking HS (from 75 to78), there were also Québécois bands touring the circuit (but Harmonium and Beau Dommage were already too big at the time) as well and we also had Aquarelle, Morse Code, Conventum, Séguin and a few others.

AFlowerKingCrimson wrote: Wow, I never heard of Streetheart. I have heard of Chiliwack and April Wine though.

These guys where from Winnipeg (where The Guess Who and BTO - Bachman Turning Overweight - were from)  or Saskatchewan (where nobody else but them came from ), and three of them ended up in Vancouver's Loverboy

Here is them in 79, but by that time, both guitarist Dean and drummer Frenette were already gone (bassist Sinnaeve would join a few years later)

All of the material here is from their second album and The two guys gone did take away from the power from the band.

Just like Triumph, this is teen stuff that hasn't really aged all that well. Almost cringe-inducing and amateurish nowadays

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Chilliwack, on tne other hand evolved out the great proto-prog bands The Collectors (66-69) and their first two albums (70-71) are terrific lazy psych-prog stuff laced with Amerindian influences (the reason why they're here)...

triumph finger talking  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZ1ciYapqp4" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZ1ciYapqp4  ( I hope I'm allowed to post links if not please delete it) 

Sure Rik is good, but I'm pretty sure Ian can keep up with him.

The only Triumph I think I ever owned was progressions of power(on cassette)so I remember finger talking. Anyway, you know Rik is good if he can hang with Steve.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vh1JcI3lDxE" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vh1JcI3lDxE

Triumph is not really prog related at all.  They are more a Hair Metal band.  I like a lot of their songs.

Saga is poppy prog and I also like an equal number of songs.

I will vote both

Triumph has a dash of prog here and there (Blinding Light Show / Moonchild is awesome) in their earlier music but even I think including them here as prog-related is a stretch. 

I'll hide while their fans throw stones at me,,,,

;)

As far as lead vocalist (with vocals of his caliber) and lead guitar (ditto) in one package go, Rik trounces a lot of other guys. He's the consummate guitarist who explored other styles following his time in Triumph. He's excellent on acoustic, as well.

IMO, he'd rank much higher than "#99" in the Top 100 combos. 

Rik is a classic example of an underrated guitarist when it comes to those "top guitarists" lists. He doesn't nearly get the credit he deserves. 

I bought Images At Twilight because of the album cover and they had songs that were part of "chapters"....This is what you did when you walked into a record store and flipped thru bins reading covers. So much of what I bought was do to artwork, not flowers but of fantasy looking stuff.

I also love Triumph, to me different music styles, Triumph was hard driving rock/metal. And yes one of the most amazing guitarist in hard rock music, I saw Triumph a couple times in the 80's and Rik was head and shoulders above most. I saw Saga once in '83-'84 don't remember, wish I would have seen them more.

I chose both, for very different reasons. 

Every bit the lead guitarist that the celebrated EVH is, only Rik can also jam on acoustic! 

I first got Heads or Tales on tape, then went back and (!!!) put in a special order for Images at Twilight on CD, because, as you say, that's how we did it back then! And the Wherehouse actually procured the CD for me, which was the Bel Aire pressing that was circulating at the time.

If you got Phase One, you got "Hangman," which was left off the album, and a better, tougher version of "Mouse in a Maze," too.

Tony Roberts' paintings were used for both Images and Silent Knight, and to this day, they remain the best covers on any of Saga's albums. IMO, Silent Knight is their best album. It's got more of an edge than the previous two albums, and feels exactly like crossover prog as we call it today. Lots of fantastic instrumental interplay, fueled by Moog synths!

See your spot on with "Lots of fantastic instrumental interplay, fueled by Moog synths!"  That CD version, by CD resell standards, is a spendy one now, I think...It's not a $2-$5 CD, I think like $15.

My Images LP i bought at Tower Records Import section, although it is a Canadian print , but still worth about $20 now, probably paid $5.99 in 1981-82.

Don't Be Late (Chpt 2) is excellent!!

I was stunned to find out Triumph had any sort of presence on PA. Yes, Rik Emmett is a fabulous guitar player and vocalist, and they came up with a few great songs. But Prog-Related? Triumph always seemed to me to be more of a beer-drinking, girl-chasing bar band than something even remotely Prog-Related. If Triumph is Prog-Related, then so is Boston.

SAGA, on the other hand, while far more keyboard-oriented is emphatically prog and in my personal Big Six. As good as Rik Emmett is, I would put Ian Crichton right up there with him every day! Even if we ignore what the band sounded like, Saga (like Rush) were far more SERIOUS about their music/lyrics. Can you imagine Triumph doing an album like Generation 13? And while (like Rush) Saga have "lightened up" over time, the only real comparison with Triumph is country of origin.

All that being said, I would pay good money for an album of Rik Emmett/Alex Lifeson or Ian Crichton guitar duets!

Why not vote "I don't know both bands well enough to vote" if that is the case. I would rather have someone not vote at all if they aren't going to play by the rules. You are basically admitting to me here that you are deliberately breaking the rules of the poll. Not cool.

I recommend giving Thunder Seven a revisit because Side B contains some of the best music of their career, and without a doubt their two best instrumentals.

Tonight, you're on the loose! Never surrender!

I just misunderstood the option, I thought it means I don't know either band. Stupid me. There was no rulebook though, just options, and I liked the Saga one.  Some people like it if somebody votes in their three year old poll with comment, but fair enough we're not all the same...

Well, if you misunderstood it I can't really blame you for that other than your misunderstanding. In this day and age it's easy enough to look up a band you don't know (like Triumph for example) on youtube though.

Steve Wyzard wrote: I was stunned to find out Triumph had any sort of presence on PA. Yes, Rik Emmett is a fabulous guitar player and vocalist, and they came up with a few great songs. But Prog-Related? Triumph always seemed to me to be more of a beer-drinking, girl-chasing bar band than something even remotely Prog-Related. If Triumph is Prog-Related, then so is Boston. SAGA, on the other hand, while far more keyboard-oriented is emphatically prog and in my personal Big Six. As good as Rik Emmett is, I would put Ian Crichton right up there with him every day! Even if we ignore what the band sounded like, Saga (like Rush) were far more SERIOUS about their music/lyrics. Can you imagine Triumph doing an album like Generation 13? And while (like Rush) Saga have "lightened up" over time, the only real comparison with Triumph is country of origin.

Well, yes, at one point, Triumph decided to part way from their original stance (their first two albums) and certainly achieved that with success. If Triumph had done another three albums in the line of RnR Machine and theur debut (and achieved the same commercial success they had), they'd probably be remembered differently than their near-Hair-metal MTV videoclips. 

mathman0806 wrote: Just a Game by Triumph is a fantastic rock album. But that and maybe Allied Force would be all I need to satisfy my Triumph listening experience.

Yes, Triumph always had that friday-night-fun-girl-chasing RnR side (not only musical, but also lyrics), but they also had a more profound side, that usually showed both musically and in terms of lyrics... Difficult to adapt the lyrics of Whole Lotta Rosie type of lyrics on Close To The Edge type of music. 

I might have written this in my reviews, but Just A Game was a game-changer for the band and they clearly explain it in the opening track called Movin' On. Genesis did the same with Down and Out on And Then There Were Three.  I'd say both bands realized the music scene was changing and had to do something about it. Rush basically did the same as well with Spirit Of Radio ... all three did that in 78/9, I believe.

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Soooo, I'd say that if all you heard (or care to hear) from Triumph is Just A Game and Allied Forces, you're missing 100% of the point of their prog-related inclusion. Emmett's guitar playing is hardly the only reason.

Now I agree that three or four epics over a whole career might be a little too few (but did Zep or Doors have more?)  to qualify here, but there are worse offenders. (Oingo Boingo, The Church or XTC, for ex).

Just looking at who else is in the list as Prog-Related, I'd say that once you know their first two albums, they fit much better than many others included for whatever reasons.

.

 Never Surrender and Thunder Seven don't sound remotely like hair metal.

Go listen to Faster Pussycat and Madam X. That's hair metal.

When Rik sings, my ears ring blue bells... tintinnabulate...bong!

Let me lay it on the line...tintinnabulate...Triumphs' got the magic power 

Tintinnabulate....how they jingle, jangle, twinkle on the hour....Tintinnabulate...

Spellbound....Emmett pounds...heavy metal bells...Tintinnabulate...

Mellow thunder seven bells....swell ding, and tinkle...

Tintinnabulate... sprinkles Rik's leads ring and sink syncopation

Rang Triumph's spell cast over aural oblation... ting, swing

I Ching, bells swell, cha-ching, ding-dong....ring, ring, ring:

Hold on, someone's out there...Tintinnabulate...tintinnabulate...tintinnabulation. 

Voted Triumph.