I was present at the gig in Newcastle when ELP recorded the album in 1971, and I was not very impressed. Emerson's playing was sloppy at times (he spent too much time showing off) and some of the arrangements are a bit naff. Lake was the best by far - a great singer.

I've got the album, but almost never play it. And I never went to see ELP again.

So, I vote for both.

I dont like ELP's version (the Lp).

Great to see lots of love in this great work and also outside ELP:s version!

Apparently there are around 50 unique classical arrangements of it alone ( my source being a BBC documentary from probably 10 years ago - might be on y/t) even before you get to everyone else's!

ELP's version is the first album I ever bought with my own money as a 14 year old in 1976 (£2 if I recall correctly) . I really hated it aside from The Old Castle/Blues Variation . Just one long rambling noise that didn't seem to go anywhere and a very excited crowd which just seemed strange. 

Over the years my feelings probably haven' changed that much and that's coming from a massive ELP fan who regards Keith Emerson as the great God of music . It served a purpose in its time. When they played live at The Isle Of Wight this was pretty much all they had. Thankfully it gradually got slimmed down to something more manageable and sensible. My favourite ELP version is the 1978 Nassau Colloseum version minus the orchestra. Nailed and job done. The version from Mar Y Sol festival (1972) I would also highly recommend. The organ crackles and Palmer is on fire behind the kit!

I enjoy the Tomita version. Emerson was very impressed with this and it influenced his re-arranged version in 1977 that ELP performed at the Montreal Olympic stadium. 

I don't listen to the classical versions that much although I do own one of them. 

Voted for all versions.

Hi,

Tomita's touch is an acquired taste sometimes ... but some things of his really stand out ... the first album (Snowflakes are Dancing) is a must in all collections ... and at that time, everyone kinda thought that the synthesizer could only do what Wendy/Walter Carlos did, which was (to my ears) more about fun, than it was an extension of the synthesizer ... but his next album (Pictures at an Exhibition) kinda stretches your imagination a lot, unless you know the piece, and you will find it a nice rendition of it. His 3rd album with the Firebird Suite is the one I like the most ... and probably his best. The Holst version is rather nice, but probably one that you will like better if you know the piece. 

I'm not sure I know which "version" I like better of PAAE ... since I like them all, and find that some details here and there are better on one than the other ... some parts fit ELP better than Tomita, or the classical touch for my ears!

TD is full of classical music ... and it is the reason why I consider Edgar Froese "symphonic" because all of the music during his life had that touch and feel ... as soon as he passed the new version of TD has lost that "symphonic" feel ... and I don't think those guys can get it back ... on their own, they are too "metalic" ... for my tastes ... too much machine ... I had never thought of "machine" listening to TD since ALPHA CENTAURI ... !!!!!

HI,

The weird thing is that Keith Emerson is the one that was into classical music, and even did pieces with The Nice ... He did Sibelius, Bach and Tchaikovsky in that group ... and probably other bits we are not aware of.

For comparison, try this ... play ELP's The Endless Enigma (both parts) and then look for Rachel Flowers Piano version of this (she also has an organ version) ... and you will find that it is a SOLID piano concert ... that was adjusted for his mates and the rock music of the day ... and another example, even better, is the first album ... listen to "Take a Pebble" and it is ... a superb piano piece and concert by itself ... and I have always thought that Keith was a superb composer ... that could not ... sell a piano concert to anyone ... because the time for classical music was over and dead and done ... no one listens to it for the piano anymore ... and all many folks can think of are the stage antics, that were done more for the fans, to ensure they did not get bored with things ... knowing darn well that a rock audience did not (and STILL does NOT) have the patience to sit through a piano concert.

If Keith has said that he was doing his piano concert #3 ... after 15 minutes a lot of the fans would boo and get upset ... and this is one of the saddest and ugliest sides of rock music ... no appreciation for music whatsoever ... and not allow a player to showcase their talents ... and this is very visible in America and England ... although I can not speak for Germany, France or Italy ... but seeing an orchestra do Tangerine Dream ... is beyond anything that you and I could ever conceive or think ... and if there is something that deserves a recording that does, but my guess is that "purists" have killed that album ... and think that it hurts TD.

The synthesizer and players like Keith Emerson need to get the appreciation for some excellent compositions, and above all ... appreciation for so much music and giving us something ... that is more than once in a lifetime thing and event ... you don't get more than one chance to see a Misha, or Nureyev, or even a Pavarotti (my favorite is the voice of Renata Tebaldi) ... and it is really hard to put these things in perspective in a place like PA, that only worships the almighty "hit" because it sold, and the rest of the music is just sh*t!

I'm just glad (and very proud) to see this thread ... 

 

 

I actually prefer Emerson's playing in the Nice (in fact I generally prefer the Nice as a band), plus the Karelia Suite is one of my favourite pieces of music (but I love all Sibelius music).

I saw Mostly Autumn a few weeks ago at their bash at the Lion Inn on Blakey Ridge, and the start of the second set was Troy Donockley (Nightwish) and Iain Jennings playing the slow movement of Sibelius's  Finlandia Suite on pipes and keyboards. Breathtakingly beautiful.
 

"But last night when I watched "Pictures" I really liked his "show", even it has also really bad taste humor"

He was nowhere near Rick Wakeman for that. Wakeman is a first class stand up comedian - watch his induction into the Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame. As a 70+ man, the bit about the prostate inspection brought tears to my eyes, but it was bloody funny.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLSDgY7-pjc" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLSDgY7-pjc

Back on track I voted all versions. I like the piano version. Not sure who composed the orchestral version. Was it Ravel, because I like that as well? ELP may not have improved on the orchestral version but it's certainly interesting to listen to. Take your pick which live ELP version you prefer because they're all a bit different.

Hi,

Of all the shows by ELP that I have ever seen on the tube, I like to say that the antics is what most of them were after "for the fans" ... and this is sad, in many ways, because the music takes the back seat ... and again, there was one concert that Keith did in LA that he was at the piano for 12 to 15 minutes and the bootleg had people boo'ing at 10 minutes ... and honestly ... if my name was Keith Emerson, I would get up and walk out ... and state something like ... I love music. You don't! And walk! But listening to that bootleg, I can honestly say ... that if my name was Keith, I would have cried on the way home, and probably say ... never again in LA.

It sounds bad, but sometimes an audience (even here!) needs to eat some serious ugly crow ... the idea that the audience is the boss and the player/musician is the slave, is just scary and something that hurts "music" in all its aspects.

I never thought that he was less of a precision player than anyone else, however I think that he could tell that sometimes his fingers weren't right, and I think he used that as a hint/link to something new. "Mistakes", even in rehearsal, are often the biggest leads into something new. However, as he had issues with his hands and wrists in his elder days, I have a feeling that he was already having issues with his hands in the early days, which made him look like he was not as precise. But he certainly knew how to adjust and probably hide it better than many!

And I think he DID push the boundaries (I like your wording on that!), and seeing someone like Rachel Flowers show that side (how else you gonna introduce Tarkus to your bandmates?) on a piano ... and instead you and I end up seeing what a great composer he was!

There are more than one classical version. I know at least one by Borodin and one by Ravel (which I think is superior to Borodin).

As for the ELP version, I have always had mixed feelings about it. Some passages are great, and I like the original songs that appear. But unfortunately the plot is somehow lost for my part when all of a sudden they begin jamming on a 12 bar blues form. It makes little sense in the context of Mussorgsky.

All I need from Tomita are the first three albums (though I still have all the main ones on vinyl until Bolero) and in the order of appearance/publication, but I'd settle for Snowflakes in Pictures only.

I'm not sure myself. Carl Palmer's symbals and high hat are way too muted and the organ is too 'clean' for my taste. Have you ever heard the 1970 Lyceum version? It was part of the film of the band that was released into the cinema at the time. The Baba Yaga section on that version is mighty and shows ELP at their devastating best IMO. Other parts are not so good. The Old Castle/Blues Variation is much better on the album but in general I prefer the rougher sound of the 1970 Lyceum performance to that of the 1971 studio album.

iluvmarillion wrote: Interesting discussion. Of all the different versions I prefer the first from the documentary of the Isle Of Wight festival; that is the video of the performance of Pictures of an Exhibition, not the CD of the performance which came out later. That is vastly inferior. It's Keith's incredible attack on the Hammond organ where he stretches the notes and Carl Palmer's amazing ability at being able to sustain the beat while Keith is doing his act, all the time Greg Lake hiding himself in a corner trying to figure out what to do. This is what I love about Prog Rock. It's not always about the technical proficiency but more about the surprises that it brings up. Someone mentioned Rick Wakeman's comic ability as well. In my view what ELP brings to the table at the Isle Of Wight festival is better than anything that The Nice were doing earlier. However post 1977 ELP for various reasons is inferior to what pre 1970 The Nice were doing.

 

That video of the Isle Of Wight is sadly just based on 10 minutes of film as the BBC decided to switch the filming off shortly after ELP arrived on stage.

The Nice actually were pretty damn brilliant at times. I love their instrumental stuff especially, Davison and Jackson were a great rhythm section backing Emerson to the hilt. Contrastingly, ELP by 1973 were deep into the sci-fi electronic approach that was a million miles away from the organ attack style of the Nice. However there was a nice reminder of what The Nice could do when Moraz (doing a more than passable impression of Emerson) linked up with Davison and Jackson. Refugee is one hell of an album!

Never got over Yes stealing Patrick Moraz from Refugee.