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What do you think of Derek Shulman's voice?

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Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
Forum Description: Discuss specific prog bands and their members or a specific sub-genre
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=122858
Printed Date: November 28 2021 at 04:28
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Topic: What do you think of Derek Shulman's voice?
Posted By: Awesoreno
Subject: What do you think of Derek Shulman's voice?
Date Posted: April 28 2020 at 18:18
It seems there's a theme happening. I'm in quarantine, with not much better to do. So I might as well jump on this bandwagon. I had some friends who couldn't get into Gentle Giant, one of my favorite bands, because of Derek's voice, despite being initially intrigued by their music. Opinions away! (Personally, I don't have a problem with him. I can hear where they're coming from, and he isn't perfect, some songs are better than others.)



Replies:
Posted By: dougmcauliffe
Date Posted: April 28 2020 at 18:26
This isn't get annoying

I'll sum up the thread here, some will like it, some wont. Will it effect how much I enjoy the band? No.


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The sun has left the sky...
...Now you can close your eyes


Posted By: Awesoreno
Date Posted: April 28 2020 at 18:44
I guess a pertinent question is: how many have been warded off from the band specifically because of his vocals?


Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: April 28 2020 at 19:08
I've always felt that GG would have been a bit more popular if they had a different lead singer. The same thing with PG era Genesis.


Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: April 28 2020 at 20:04
I like all the singers in GG---and I think they are an amazing band--but only a fan of a few select albums.


Posted By: foregonillusions
Date Posted: April 28 2020 at 20:38
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

I've always felt that GG would have been a bit more popular if they had a different lead singer. The same thing with PG era Genesis.

One of my dreams is to wake up and realize that I now like Gabriel's voice so that I can finally enjoy Genesis' awesome music.


Posted By: progmatic
Date Posted: April 28 2020 at 21:22
Love his voice.



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PROGMATIC


Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: April 29 2020 at 00:32
Nothing wrong with it, but I usually prefer Kerry Minnear's vocals (though Derek's fit many GG songs better and they knew well enough who should sing which).

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Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: April 29 2020 at 00:52
Derek rocks. Guy's range is fantastic. His tone and note selection are great. I can understand if he's a tad sterile for some, but for prog rock? GG is perfection!

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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021


Posted By: friso
Date Posted: April 29 2020 at 01:56
Great singer, but somehow I can't appreciate his vocals on the 'In a Glass House' album.

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I'm guitarist and songwriter for the prog-related band Mother Bass. Find us at http://www.motherbass.com. I also enter stages throughout the Netherlands performing my poetry.


Posted By: Spacegod87
Date Posted: April 29 2020 at 02:49
I've always liked it. He's not good in a conventional way, but I think that's what I like about his voice tbh.


Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: April 29 2020 at 02:52
Bloody hell - he's one of the best vocalists around!
All members of GG can sing.


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A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life.


Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: April 29 2020 at 03:05
His ability to "shift" into different levels of vocal intensity, on the same phrase, and even sometimes in the same note that he's holding, is incredible.

I Lost My Head is secretly one of the best GG tracks. Their golden era swansong track for me!


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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021


Posted By: irrelevant
Date Posted: April 29 2020 at 03:41
Much like Gary Green's guitar; had just enough of the nitty gritty to keep Gentle Giant from floating away. My favourite of the GG vocalists. 

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https://gabebuller.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - New album!
http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385


Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: April 29 2020 at 04:42
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

I've always felt that GG would have been a bit more popular if they had a different lead singer. The same thing with PG era Genesis.


I don't think Gabriel's voice was an impairment to the bands success at the time. They were still on the ascendancy when he decided to quit. They had released 7 albums, including FGTR and the live album, and in the UK, three had made the top 10 in the album charts, and Foxtrot just sat outside at number 12. SEBTP made it to number 3. On the Lamb Tour the band played what is now Wembley arena. By 1975 they were pretty successful, and much of that was down to Gabriel. They were also doing quite reasonable business across Europe. The US was the challenge, and they needed a change in direction to really break that market. That obviously came later.

As for GG, I'm not a huge fan of the vocals, but they weren't bad and I don't think they had much bearing on the bands success or otherwise. The reason they weren't more successful is because their music was too quirky and inaccessible.

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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!


Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: April 29 2020 at 04:52
He fits the music perfectly. I think he also harmonises well with Phil, Ray and Kerry well, though I prefer the softer voice of Kerry, who doesn’t get to sing too often. GG are up there with the best.


Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: April 29 2020 at 06:34
Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

He fits the music perfectly.
Yeah; hard to imagine a great, billowing, leather-trousered voice a la Greg Lake or John Wetton fitting into those curiously-worked GG tunes...though the results would certainly be worth a laugh.

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Soldato of the Pan Head Mafia. We'll make you an offer you can't listen to.
http://bandcamp.com/jpillbox" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp Profile


Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: April 29 2020 at 06:47
Originally posted by Mascodagama Mascodagama wrote:

Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

He fits the music perfectly.
Yeah; hard to imagine a great, billowing, leather-trousered voice a la Greg Lake or John Wetton fitting into those curiously-worked GG tunes...though the results would certainly be worth a laugh.
Lol !! Never thought of that. I can just see it - Lake singing Proclamation....


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: April 29 2020 at 07:37
Originally posted by Awesoreno Awesoreno wrote:

I guess a pertinent question is: how many have been warded off from the band specifically because of his vocals?

Hi,

I can tell you that at the time the stuff came out and it was being played in the LA area, that there were no problems with the voice ... but somehow 45 years later, all you can think is that the voice is this or that ... DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT IT WOULD LAST THAT LONG IF IT WEREN'T GOOD? Have you any idea how many folks have loved these vocals and the harmonies not to mention the music?

This line of questioning needs to be dumped by the administrators ... I see this as an attempt to mess up with people's minds in the board.


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... none of the hits, none of the time ... favoritism is not an artistic merit! www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: April 29 2020 at 08:04
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

This line of questioning needs to be dumped by the administrators ... I see this as an attempt to mess up with people's minds into the board.
I see nothing wrong with this or any question here. The administrators should leave it be. Several posts on the "Have any famous proggers ever stopped by PA" thread, were deleted. Don't know why.



Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: April 29 2020 at 08:09
I wasn't thinking about his voice, but now that you're asking, I'm gonna make some time for some GG and get back to you. 



Posted By: TerLJack
Date Posted: April 29 2020 at 08:18
Very powerful voice.  Really fits with the music.  
Not necessarily in my top 5, but Gentle Giant's music is superb.


Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: April 29 2020 at 08:20
I don't have a problem with his voice at all.


Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: April 29 2020 at 13:37
I like all of the GG voices--especially when used in woven harmonies--though I LOVE Kerry Minnear's soothing, troubadour-sounding voice the best.

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Drew Fisher
https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/


Posted By: Awesoreno
Date Posted: April 29 2020 at 23:12
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Awesoreno Awesoreno wrote:

I guess a pertinent question is: how many have been warded off from the band specifically because of his vocals?

Hi,

I can tell you that at the time the stuff came out and it was being played in the LA area, that there were no problems with the voice ... but somehow 45 years later, all you can think is that the voice is this or that ... DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT IT WOULD LAST THAT LONG IF IT WEREN'T GOOD? Have you any idea how many folks have loved these vocals and the harmonies not to mention the music?

This line of questioning needs to be dumped by the administrators ... I see this as an attempt to mess up with people's minds in the board.
I saw a pattern happening, and thought I'd make one with a vocalist that I personally have heard get some grief. As a huge fan of the band, I was always saddened when some couldn't get past his vocals. This happened to me just today actually. Made a playlist for my friend, and they said they couldn't stomach this one song because of the vocalist. I had a feeling it would be Proclamation, and it was. Oh well. 

I am fully aware of how popular they were in the States for a bit. I research bands I enjoy quite heavily. I merely decided to join the fun with these threads to know if anyone else had run into the same dilemma. My question stands, but I'll be more specific: has anyone else known people who were turned off by GG just because of Derek?


Posted By: iluvmarillion
Date Posted: April 30 2020 at 00:07
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

I've always felt that GG would have been a bit more popular if they had a different lead singer. The same thing with PG era Genesis.

Well didn't they knock back Elton John? That would have made them a bit more popular. Not that popularity matters. They're good the way they are. Their vocals are fine.


Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: April 30 2020 at 07:29
I love, love, love the vocals, the instruments, the harmonies, the compositions and EVERYTHING about Gentle Giant. The vocals are what make them stand out even more. They are an acquired taste for many but once one has "Acquired The Taste," their style sounds perfect to my ears.


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https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: April 30 2020 at 07:48
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

This line of questioning needs to be dumped by the administrators ... I see this as an attempt to mess up with people's minds into the board.
I see nothing wrong with this or any question here. The administrators should leave it be. Several posts on the "Have any famous proggers ever stopped by PA" thread, were deleted. Don't know why.


Hi,

I'm OK with the admins in PA and their choices even if it seems like sometimes I do not. But there are times when some threads are more about creating what might be considered a poor set of postings that do not help the boards standing within a world of music ... and there are many folks here that work way too hard to ensure that PROGRESSIVE MUSIC is heard and remembered.

And some of these "voice" posts, are not helped by some very keen and well defined CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM, and almost all of them only have "like" and "dislike" ... which is not something that helps evaluate the music any better ... your tastes and mine, have nothing to do with the music itself! In fact, sometimes it was created simply because ... there was nothing like it, and someone wondered what it would sound like with electric instruments ... GG succeeded and were later copied senseless ... but no one could "redo" what they did properly in so many albums!

To me, that's the definition of a great band, regardless of my like/dislike, and their music ... and I think that it is important to show them value ... and simply saying I hate it, is not a proper/good comment to make about the vocals ... which are more about music and its history and design, that most of us have any idea about ... which ought to tell you the musicality of some of those folks ... way above average!


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... none of the hits, none of the time ... favoritism is not an artistic merit! www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: April 30 2020 at 08:04
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,

I'm OK with the admins in PA and their choices even if it seems like sometimes I do not. But there are times when some threads are more about creating what might be considered a poor set of postings that do not help the boards standing within a world of music ... and there are many folks here that work way too hard to ensure that PROGRESSIVE MUSIC is heard and remembered.



This is utterly fantastic, please consider this valuable input when creating your threads, the world is watching with bated breath LOL


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Ian






Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: April 30 2020 at 10:22
Originally posted by Awesoreno Awesoreno wrote:

I saw a pattern happening, and thought I'd make one with a vocalist that I personally have heard get some grief. As a huge fan of the band, I was always saddened when some couldn't get past his vocals. This happened to me just today actually. Made a playlist for my friend, and they said they couldn't stomach this one song because of the vocalist. I had a feeling it would be Proclamation, and it was. Oh well. 

I am fully aware of how popular they were in the States for a bit. I research bands I enjoy quite heavily. I merely decided to join the fun with these threads to know if anyone else had run into the same dilemma. My question stands, but I'll be more specific: has anyone else known people who were turned off by GG just because of Derek?

Not turned off but I would gladly live without his vocals and would much rather have Minnear or Phil's vocals.  

To Mosh: please don't take this as an invitation to deliver a sermon. I own a bunch of GG albums as well as two of their DVDs.  I am a huge fan.  I don't see how Derek's vocals help though. At all.  Yes, one could get conditioned to and used to listening to his vocals in a GG context such that eventually you can't do without him but that's different.  You don't want to listen to him sing, idk, In The Bleak Midwinter or something.  He's no Justin Hayward or Richard Sinclair. 


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: April 30 2020 at 10:55
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

...
To Mosh: please don't take this as an invitation to deliver a sermon. I own a bunch of GG albums as well as two of their DVDs.  I am a huge fan.  I don't see how Derek's vocals help though. At all.  Yes, one could get conditioned to and used to listening to his vocals in a GG context such that eventually you can't do without him but that's different.  You don't want to listen to him sing, idk, In The Bleak Midwinter or something.  He's no Justin Hayward or Richard Sinclair. 

HI,

No sermon needed. You did what many did not. Explain yourself and that is all I ask folks to do, so the comment does not come off as silly and stupid.

Sometimes, though, I think that a lot of Progressive Music is more about the voices involved than anything else ... I mean, if we look at many of the top folks in the list, almost none of them are "pure singers" ... at all ... they are very good at adjusting their feeling and expression to the music they created. AND, that's an art in and by itself ... !!!


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... none of the hits, none of the time ... favoritism is not an artistic merit! www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: Awesoreno
Date Posted: April 30 2020 at 13:52
I think this discussion might be getting too serious for this thread. It's great to want these forums for to be the prog equivalent of salon in France in the late 1700s, and I enjoy those kinds of discussions. But this site, like music, can also be used as a form of escape. I think some people (like me) posting these voice threads are merely trying to have fun. And it IS inciting discussion. I definitely envisioned people responding more than just "I like it" or "I don't like it," which is why I clarified that I want to hear any stories about people trying to show GG to friends or family and were rebuked merely because of Derek. I brought this up because it had been a point of contention for me and others (I personally think it suited the band). 

However, this is a prog "lounge," so I believe it should be relaxed. Especially in these trying times with the pandemic, it can be nice to just have fun in a simple discussion of likes, dislikes, and stories. As long as we respect each others opinions on the arts.


Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: May 01 2020 at 00:16
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

...
To Mosh: please don't take this as an invitation to deliver a sermon. I own a bunch of GG albums as well as two of their DVDs.  I am a huge fan.  I don't see how Derek's vocals help though. At all.  Yes, one could get conditioned to and used to listening to his vocals in a GG context such that eventually you can't do without him but that's different.  You don't want to listen to him sing, idk, In The Bleak Midwinter or something.  He's no Justin Hayward or Richard Sinclair. 

HI,

No sermon needed. You did what many did not. Explain yourself and that is all I ask folks to do, so the comment does not come off as silly and stupid.

Sometimes, though, I think that a lot of Progressive Music is more about the voices involved than anything else ... I mean, if we look at many of the top folks in the list, almost none of them are "pure singers" ... at all ... they are very good at adjusting their feeling and expression to the music they created. AND, that's an art in and by itself ... !!!

Wow, that was an unexpected response.  Maybe for the first time we are getting through to each other.  

I understand your complaint but I think what you would want to see folks do is difficult to a degree not everyone may even be cognisant of.  I can talk in a structured manner about singing because I can sing.  Not an amazing singer or anything but I know how to do it well beyond off key karaoke night level (speaking of, what you said is generally true of great singers, they HAVE to adjust to the music they are a part of.  That is what artists do, as opposed to the athletes that get crowned the next big thing in reality TV shows year after year).  Back to the point:  likewise, someone who writes music may be able to discuss it in a way that comes across as logical and informed (and there have been a few of them on this board).  Someone who plays an instrument can discuss players of that instrument in a sensible way.  But what if you can't sing or play but have a deep love for the music?  Then maybe what you say may come off as too opinionated at times. I say that that can't be helped and is part of the discourse.  And unless somebody says something that is just flat out wrong and tries to impose that opinion, I don't call it out, it's alright.  Had a similar experience in a tennis forum where somebody was digging their heels in and then when I, who am a half decent amateur player, started taking that somebody up on their statements, they got very vague and evasive. 

So again, unless they go THERE with their opinions, I just don't bother about it.  It's just a discussion forum and most discussions aren't going to approach high art. But be thankful such forums survive.  Not many internet forums have withstood the social media onslaught and realistically I don't know how many will still be standing tall a decade from now.  Here's hoping to PA staying afloat ten years from now.


Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: May 01 2020 at 00:18
He sounds a bit different to anyone else. (that's okay!)


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: May 01 2020 at 07:45
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

...
So again, unless they go THERE with their opinions, I just don't bother about it.  It's just a discussion forum and most discussions aren't going to approach high art.
...

Hi,

With one exception ... the history of music is about those that reached the "high art" side of things, and many of them were not liked or appreciated and had to put up with lousy receptions and comments, I suppose we could say similar to here.

It always reminds me, of something in a movie that is STILL A MOVIE (as Dean stated), but it captures the whole idea that bothers me, and hurts the composers of the music ... it was when the King was asked what he thought and he didn't know ... but finally said ... "too many notes" ... 

We have a chance. So far, a lot of the stuff we love has lasted 50 years ... and we're close to nailing it down ... but we have to accept and start treating it with the respect it deserves. Too many of the goons (I'm thinking BBC in the 50's!!!) here is NOT willing to look at it as art, because they were born in a time when the arts (in America specially) has had its money removed from the schools by a president starting about 40 years ago ... and the reason why? Because the arts, naturally, are on the wrong side of the tracks and don't "follow" the rules!

I do my best. I was born into a house with 40K+ in Portuguese, Spanish and Brazilian Literature ... (you can see most of it Lisbon on display now!), and I can tell you that in all of that stuff at home, despite your sinus' getting dry in 2 minutes ... that not all of that paper and books is fit for toilet paper ... there are some fine works in the middle of all that ... and sometimes, seeing these comments, is such a disrespect to the art form itself ... but I'm not sure that these folks can spell out ... what is ART? 

I won't define it, but I can tell you exactly what is NOT art!

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

....
 But be thankful such forums survive.  Not many internet forums have withstood the social media onslaught and realistically I don't know how many will still be standing tall a decade from now.  Here's hoping to PA staying afloat ten years from now.

I am ... but after being here what ... many years, I still think that we need admins to help maintain a better appreciation about the music, than folks that have nothing better to do than really trash it when it comes to it, because their favorite metal band is not the one on top!

I think that if PA can stick around for 10 to 20 years more, that "progressive music" will start to be listed in many places ... and (hopefully) be better defined than just a blue guitar and yet another Fender, or organ out there!


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... none of the hits, none of the time ... favoritism is not an artistic merit! www.pedrosena.com



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