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Forum Name: Prog Polls
Forum Description: Create polls on topics related to progressive music
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Topic: Barclay James Harvest vs The EnidPosted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Subject: Barclay James Harvest vs The Enid
Date Posted: September 09 2020 at 18:41
Sometimes I get accused of having bands who sound nothing like each other and shouldn't go up against each other. Hopefully that won't be the case here especially since there is a connection.
Anyway, which band do you prefer? Being that these are both relatively lesser known bands I added more options than I usually do(which is saying something).
Replies: Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: September 09 2020 at 19:32
BJH is hardly lesser known, though they are definitely frequently mocked and unappreciated here. Enid leaves me cold, while BJH was one of the first serious bands I got into in the mid 70s
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: September 09 2020 at 19:45
Enid
------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: September 09 2020 at 19:54
kenethlevine wrote:
BJH is hardly lesser known, though they are definitely frequently mocked and unappreciated here. Enid leaves me cold, while BJH was one of the first serious bands I got into in the mid 70s
Compared to the usual suspects as well as Gentle Giant, Focus, Renaissance, Nektar, Camel, VDGG, Magma, etc they are. I would put them just below Strawbs and Eloy in popularity.
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: September 09 2020 at 20:34
AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:
kenethlevine wrote:
BJH is hardly lesser known, though they are definitely frequently mocked and unappreciated here. Enid leaves me cold, while BJH was one of the first serious bands I got into in the mid 70s
Compared to the usual suspects as well as Gentle Giant, Focus, Renaissance, Nektar, Camel, VDGG, Magma, etc they are. I would put them just below Strawbs and Eloy in popularity.
BJH never made much of a dent in the US but had a fair bit of UK success and absolutely MASSIVE success in Germany for some reason. The album "Gone to Earth" was on the German charts for literally years. Internationally overall they are better known than Strawbs, but Strawbs had more North American success (similar to Gentle Giant as I mentioned) and much more Canadian success, though obviously that's a relatively small market. It's hard for me to gauge Eloy's success, but it was considerable in Germany, with several chart albums, and a variety of other countries, minimal in NA. Anyway thanks for including BJH in a poll! The first song that I heard by them was "Child on the Universe" in the radio in about 1975. I always wondered if Supertramp's "Crime of the Century" (the song) was influenced by that BJH track, but I think they came out at about the same time. To me there are some similarities
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: September 09 2020 at 22:43
kenethlevine wrote:
AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:
kenethlevine wrote:
BJH is hardly lesser known, though they are definitely frequently mocked and unappreciated here. Enid leaves me cold, while BJH was one of the first serious bands I got into in the mid 70s
Compared to the usual suspects as well as Gentle Giant, Focus, Renaissance, Nektar, Camel, VDGG, Magma, etc they are. I would put them just below Strawbs and Eloy in popularity.
BJH never made much of a dent in the US but had a fair bit of UK success and absolutely MASSIVE success in Germany for some reason. The album "Gone to Earth" was on the German charts for literally years. Internationally overall they are better known than Strawbs, but Strawbs had more North American success (similar to Gentle Giant as I mentioned) and much more Canadian success, though obviously that's a relatively small market. It's hard for me to gauge Eloy's success, but it was considerable in Germany, with several chart albums, and a variety of other countries, minimal in NA. Anyway thanks for including BJH in a poll! The first song that I heard by them was "Child on the Universe" in the radio in about 1975. I always wondered if Supertramp's "Crime of the Century" (the song) was influenced by that BJH track, but I think they came out at about the same time. To me there are some similarities
Yes, they were pretty huge in Germany at one point(as was Eloy) and probably other parts of Europe too. I suppose I'm judging them from a US perspective as far as over all popularity goes but also based on what I see and how often they are mentioned and rated in prog circles after spending much time online on prog related sites. I'm not saying they weren't important just that they don't even seem to pop up that much when second tier bands are listed. Also, not that it means much but I've never heard them on the radio not even college or independent radio. Maybe once or twice on deep tracks on satellite radio but that's about it. I still maintain that they are relatively lesser known with the key word being relatively. Again, compared to other prog bands mentioned on here(such as those that would make the big ten) is what I meant by that.
Posted By: VianaProghead
Date Posted: September 10 2020 at 03:43
Probably BJH. I always loved them. They wrote some great things. They were very popular in Portugal at the time. They deserve to be better known.
------------- "PROG IS MY FERRARI". Jem Godfrey (Frost*)
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: September 10 2020 at 03:47
I'be not heard much BJH, but based on what I have heard I prefer The Enid.
------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
Posted By: jamesbaldwin
Date Posted: September 10 2020 at 05:07
I know only BJH
------------- Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion.
Posted By: Mormegil
Date Posted: September 10 2020 at 05:47
BJH.
Both are good listens, though.
------------- Welcome to the middle of the film.
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: September 10 2020 at 10:33
kenethlevine wrote:
It's hard for me to gauge Eloy's success, but it was considerable in Germany, with several chart albums, and a variety of other countries, minimal in NA.
I'm fairly certain Eloy was Germany's #1 rock band at some point during the '70s. I think they even beat the Scorpions in album sales one year.
Posted By: grantman
Date Posted: September 10 2020 at 10:47
No one band can be compared the band who wrote MOCKINGBIRD.
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: September 10 2020 at 10:47
verslibre wrote:
kenethlevine wrote:
It's hard for me to gauge Eloy's success, but it was considerable in Germany, with several chart albums, and a variety of other countries, minimal in NA.
I'm fairly certain Eloy was Germany's #1 rock band at some point during the '70s. I think they even beat the Scorpions in album sales one year.
In the early 80's too.
I remember I had a friend who had a housemate who was in the military and stationed in Germany at one point. This was an american guy. I remember seeing his cassette tapes and they were all the typical usual well known rock stuff except for one and that was Eloy. None of the othe stuff was prog either. I think that right there says something.
Posted By: geekfreak
Date Posted: September 10 2020 at 10:53
Barclay James Harvest
------------- Friedrich Nietzsche: "Without music, life would be a mistake."
Music Is Live
Two people are better off than one, for they can help each other succeed.
Keep Calm And Listen To The Music… <
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: September 10 2020 at 13:50
AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:
verslibre wrote:
kenethlevine wrote:
It's hard for me to gauge Eloy's success, but it was considerable in Germany, with several chart albums, and a variety of other countries, minimal in NA.
I'm fairly certain Eloy was Germany's #1 rock band at some point during the '70s. I think they even beat the Scorpions in album sales one year.
In the early 80's too.
I remember I had a friend who had a housemate who was in the military and stationed in Germany at one point. This was an american guy. I remember seeing his cassette tapes and they were all the typical usual well known rock stuff except for one and that was Eloy. None of the othe stuff was prog either. I think that right there says something.
according to the German charts, the biggest Eloy album was "Silent Cries and Mighty Echoes". "Colours" and "Time to Turn" were also big, so most of their chart success was actually in the 1980s. Perhaps "Ocean" was the one that helped the group hit the bigtime though
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: September 10 2020 at 14:10
kenethlevine wrote:
AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:
verslibre wrote:
kenethlevine wrote:
It's hard for me to gauge Eloy's success, but it was considerable in Germany, with several chart albums, and a variety of other countries, minimal in NA.
I'm fairly certain Eloy was Germany's #1 rock band at some point during the '70s. I think they even beat the Scorpions in album sales one year.
In the early 80's too.
I remember I had a friend who had a housemate who was in the military and stationed in Germany at one point. This was an american guy. I remember seeing his cassette tapes and they were all the typical usual well known rock stuff except for one and that was Eloy. None of the othe stuff was prog either. I think that right there says something.
according to the German charts, the biggest Eloy album was "Silent Cries and Mighty Echoes". "Colours" and "Time to Turn" were also big, so most of their chart success was actually in the 1980s. Perhaps "Ocean" was the one that helped the group hit the bigtime though
Interesting. I thought "Planets" was their biggest album. As a prog fan I don't equate commercial success with quality and I hope you don't either. ;)
Also, could you post a link to these charts you speak of. I would like to see it for myself.
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: September 10 2020 at 20:06
AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:
kenethlevine wrote:
AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:
verslibre wrote:
kenethlevine wrote:
It's hard for me to gauge Eloy's success, but it was considerable in Germany, with several chart albums, and a variety of other countries, minimal in NA.
I'm fairly certain Eloy was Germany's #1 rock band at some point during the '70s. I think they even beat the Scorpions in album sales one year.
In the early 80's too.
I remember I had a friend who had a housemate who was in the military and stationed in Germany at one point. This was an american guy. I remember seeing his cassette tapes and they were all the typical usual well known rock stuff except for one and that was Eloy. None of the othe stuff was prog either. I think that right there says something.
according to the German charts, the biggest Eloy album was "Silent Cries and Mighty Echoes". "Colours" and "Time to Turn" were also big, so most of their chart success was actually in the 1980s. Perhaps "Ocean" was the one that helped the group hit the bigtime though
Interesting. I thought "Planets" was their biggest album. As a prog fan I don't equate commercial success with quality and I hope you don't either. ;)
Also, could you post a link to these charts you speak of. I would like to see it for myself.
agreed, except when I love an album and it was commercially successful...this is so rare that I always point it out. Strangely enough, with Colours and Time to Turn both charting for some time, it's hard to undertsand how Planets didn't chart being as it was in between them, but it could be that it sold reasonably well over a long period.
I'm not sure this link will show the Eloy albums but it lets you do a search. I also copied and pasted the results up to Time to Turn. After that album most of their albums charted only briefly. Silent Cries hit the highest spot while Colours was in the chart for the longest. It's clear that Ocean was their breakthrough.
https://www.offiziellecharts.de/suche
9
Eloy https://www.offiziellecharts.de/album-details-33735" rel="nofollow - Time to turn
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: September 10 2020 at 20:10
I can't say that I am super familiar with either band, but I have heard a number of albums from both. My vote goes for the Poor Man's Moody Blues. I'm really not sure why they weren't bigger here in the US.
-------------
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: September 10 2020 at 21:26
rushfan4 wrote:
I can't say that I am super familiar with either band, but I have heard a number of albums from both. My vote goes for the Poor Man's Moody Blues. I'm really not sure why they weren't bigger here in the US.
The American rock press was quite open about their disdain for melodically oriented British rock, almost like they didn't understand it. If an American group had done what BJH did they would havce been hailed as brilliant by the same press, though. This negative bias certainly didn't help the cause of BJH
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: September 11 2020 at 00:48
OMG BJH beating The Enid
Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: September 11 2020 at 04:51
AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:
kenethlevine wrote:
BJH is hardly lesser known, though they are definitely frequently mocked and unappreciated here. Enid leaves me cold, while BJH was one of the first serious bands I got into in the mid 70s
Compared to the usual suspects as well as Gentle Giant, Focus, Renaissance, Nektar, Camel, VDGG, Magma, etc they are. I would put them just below Strawbs and Eloy in popularity.
In the 70s, BJH were huge in Germany and the continent, and also had 7 or 8 top 40 albums in the UK, where they were more of a cult band. Overall they were much bigger than Magma, VDGG, Nektar, Eloy and probably Gentle Giant. Some of those bands have become far more popular now than at that time.
The Enid were THE cult band and I love them as much as I love BJH.
So both equally.
------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life.
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: February 02 2021 at 10:30
hell's frozen over, I've voted for Barclay James Harmless.
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: February 02 2021 at 10:40
I recall Robert John Godfrey of The Enid once worked with Barclay James Harvest and I like both bands equally, so I vote "Both Equally"
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: February 02 2021 at 11:55
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
I recall Robert John Godfrey of The Enid once worked with Barclay James Harvest and I like both bands equally, so I vote "Both Equally"
Yes, he did the orchestration on "Once Again" which is one of my favourite albums but despite that I voted for The Enid for a better overall catalogue.
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: February 02 2021 at 11:56
Hercules wrote:
The Enid were THE cult band
They are still going, you know?
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: February 03 2021 at 01:39
RJG once claimed that BJH would have been as big as Pink Floyd if he stayed with them. That's some major ego there...
As I said earlier in the thread, I prefer The Enid based on what I've heard. I didn't case a vote as I don't now much BJH, but The Enid seem to be far more..er 'interesting' and original sounding than BJH. Got In the Region of the Summer Stars vinyl re-issue recently, and that's magnificent. IMO.
------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
Posted By: Ronstein
Date Posted: February 03 2021 at 02:36
I like The Enid, but I love BJH. Apparently the split between BJH and Robert Godfrey was pretty acrimonious. Basically he thought he should be part of the band (for which you can read, run the band) and the band saw him as an arranger that was trying to take over. I found what The Enid were doing by fusing classical and contemporary music was interesting but, for me, another occasion prog arranger, Simon Jeffes, did a far more interesting and creative job with Penguin Cafe Orchestra, who've made some of the most genuinely beautiful music on the planet.
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: February 03 2021 at 03:02
Ronstein wrote:
I like The Enid, but I love BJH. Apparently the split between BJH and Robert Godfrey was pretty acrimonious. Basically he thought he should be part of the band (for which you can read, run the band) and the band saw him as an arranger that was trying to take over. I found what The Enid were doing by fusing classical and contemporary music was interesting but, for me, another occasion prog arranger, Simon Jeffes, did a far more interesting and creative job with Penguin Cafe Orchestra, who've made some of the most genuinely beautiful music on the planet.
You've engaged my interest :-)
Listening to Penguin Cafe Orchestra now for the first time.
------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
Posted By: Ronstein
Date Posted: February 03 2021 at 03:03
Blacksword wrote:
Ronstein wrote:
I like The Enid, but I love BJH. Apparently the split between BJH and Robert Godfrey was pretty acrimonious. Basically he thought he should be part of the band (for which you can read, run the band) and the band saw him as an arranger that was trying to take over. I found what The Enid were doing by fusing classical and contemporary music was interesting but, for me, another occasion prog arranger, Simon Jeffes, did a far more interesting and creative job with Penguin Cafe Orchestra, who've made some of the most genuinely beautiful music on the planet.
You've engaged my interest :-)
Listening to Penguin Cafe Orchestra now for the first time.
Posted By: Ronstein
Date Posted: February 03 2021 at 03:08
A little snippet, Simon Jeffes and Geoff Richardson (Caravan etc., being silly as usual)
Posted By: freed
Date Posted: February 03 2021 at 12:15
Barclay James Harvest, when I first heard them in Switzerland with the Bern Symphony Orchestra on 22 May 1971 with She Said; Mocking Bird; Galadriel; The Sun Will Never Shine; Too Much On Your Plate; The Poet; Dark Now My Sky listed on their website https://www.bjharvest.co.uk/concert1.htm#1971
A cherished memory!
------------- expand y-our mind, expand y-our world at planetwork.org