Time for Kansas to retire ?
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Topic: Time for Kansas to retire ?
Posted By: Enchant X
Subject: Time for Kansas to retire ?
Date Posted: September 25 2020 at 03:50
After the last underwhelming CD the absence of presence I`m considering my favorite band might be ready to retire, I'd like to know your thoughts 
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Replies:
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: September 25 2020 at 03:58
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Either they retire, OR you could stop listening to them and they could carry on doing what they enjoy. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: September 25 2020 at 04:04
I agree, I'm no Kansas expert but I have listened to their latest CD and I thought it was quite enjoyable. How it compares to their earlier output I couldn't really say but it's not for us to say they should retire.
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Blacksword wrote:Posted By: Enchant X
Date Posted: September 25 2020 at 04:07
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Its not kansas we are listening to anymore its more a cover band of Kansas , without Steve Walsh and Kerry Livgren the heart and soul has gone, what we are left with is predictable songs with shallow meanings.
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Posted By: JD
Date Posted: September 25 2020 at 04:57
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^The same argument raised about bands like Genesis, Yes, ELPowell etc. For every fan that says 'WTF?' about a latest release there are fans who are saying 'Alright!' No band/musician should ever worry about retiring from music because some fans/critics say they've lost a step. Other fans who appreciate the music will no doubt step in. The open market gives the feedback they are free to acknowledge or not. ------------- Thank you for supporting independently produced music |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: September 25 2020 at 04:58
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Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: September 25 2020 at 05:49
| Their last album is quite good, and they seem inspired to keep going, so Why not? No reason to retire if you want to keep writing enjoyable music. |
Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: September 25 2020 at 05:52
| As long as the musicians are having fun, still passionate, and there is a market for their product, no need to retire. As for the quality of the music...it will never reach the heights of them in their prime. No band can do that. As a consumer you can decide if you want to support then anymore. |
Posted By: Enchant X
Date Posted: September 25 2020 at 06:15
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I payed $42 (aus) for the latest CD (imported from Germany) so I had invested interest , it wasn't a good investment .. Animals on the roof is the worst song Kansas have ever written .. cringe worthy the second half of the CD is pathetic and that sudden cut off ending was a terrible idea.
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: September 25 2020 at 07:30
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Hi, No true artist will EVER retire from what they do best! It doesn't matter that it is a band! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: dougmcauliffe
Date Posted: September 25 2020 at 07:36
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Hell no, go see them live or watch an interview with the current lineup. It’s clear there is a great comradery and sense of inspiration in this current lineup and they are all just as capable and competent as they’ve ever been instrumentally. Steve Walsh leaving the band was essential for the band to progress and create new music, as his voice was just gone. I really enjoy the last two Kansas albums, don’t listen comparing them to the first 5 albums because these last two albums are not meant to be a noastalgia act, they’re different and they explore different sounds (as any progressive band should). They also have the nod from Mr. Livgren, who often joins them on stage when they’re in the same area. PS: I think Animals on the Roof, along with Throwing Mountains and The Song the River Sang are the best songs on the album ------------- The sun has left the sky... ...Now you can close your eyes |
Posted By: Argo2112
Date Posted: September 25 2020 at 08:41
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As long as they like what they are doing & people still enjoy their music (Live or Recordings) they should carry on. A lot of the band we grew up with are older now & may not be a prolific as they use to be but they are still out there making music.
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Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: September 25 2020 at 08:47
I guess nobody told Fish that!  As I said, I'm not a Kansas expert but I've played the album again and it seems perfectly acceptable. It's all down to personal taste but you can't ask a band to retire just because you shelled out dollars for something you don't like (otherwise Yes would have packed up after H&E).
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: September 25 2020 at 09:05
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I'm not familiar with the last two Kansas albums. However, rym has the last one at 3.43 and prelude implicit at 3.41. On this website the absence of presence has a 3.74 and prelude has a 3.82 rating(less than a ten point difference). Also, both albums have four out of five stars on allmusic. Interestingly, "somewhere to elsewhere is the only post seventies album(not counting "box set")to have 4 1/2 stars(none have five). I just listened to "animals on the roof" on youtube and I have to say it's a rather decent track. Nothing offensive at all imo then again I don't always pay much attention to lyrics. So no it didn't sound that bad to me. I'm not sure what the worst Kansas song I have heard is but "stay out of trouble" and "lonely road" must rank up there and also probably something from audio visions.
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Posted By: dougmcauliffe
Date Posted: September 25 2020 at 09:14
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Stay out of trouble truly does suck ^ but i've always liked lonely wind, especially the version off two for the show with the guitar and piano solo. ------------- The sun has left the sky... ...Now you can close your eyes |
Posted By: Jeffro
Date Posted: September 25 2020 at 09:32
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Ah, too retire or not to retire that is the age old question. If the members are willing then why shouldn't they continue? However, I also think that bands do sometimes out stay their welcome. There is something to be said about going out on top or going out before declining or having most of your members replaced by time and/or death. I feel like bands that either don't have any original members left or only one or two are that band in name only. That's not to say they can't still make enjoyable music but if there's only two original members left are they really still Kansas? Foreigner only has Mick Jones left. Is it still Foreigner? Shouldn't it be more than just a name on a masthead? Does that even matter? Damned if I know. ------------- We all live in an amber subdomain, amber subdomain, amber subdomain. My face IS a maserati |
Posted By: SouthSideoftheSky
Date Posted: September 25 2020 at 09:37
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Hell no, their latest album is great! Better than the previous one, in my opinion. Tom Brislin is a really great asset to the band. I'm surprised to see so few reviews of the new album here on PA. |
Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: September 25 2020 at 09:41
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Personally, I am glad to see them continuing. The original line-up was gone long ago and there have been numerous exits, re-entrances, and shake ups throughout the years. Kerry Livgren, Robbie Steinhardt, and Dave Hope left in the early 80s. The former two came back briefly. This means that current bassist Billy Greer has been in the band much longer than Hope. Steve Walsh also quit the band for a brief period. David Ragsdale is also a long-time member. Rich Williams is now back in the band. And let's not forget that Phil Erhart was actually the one who originally put it all together. So, who has the right to be considered the band? I have long had an idea that a band's legacy and presence should be strong enough to pass through multiple members over the years, even to the point of new generations joining. As long as the vision of the music is intact, it is the band. Everything I have heard from this new line up sounds like Kansas to me, revitalized and re-energized. So, no, there is no reason for this band to retire, it still has much to offer. ------------- The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty" |
Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: September 25 2020 at 10:20
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: September 25 2020 at 10:52
I'm sorry, I meant to say "lonely street" which is from SfA. It's ok, I guess, but I've just never been much into their "boogie rock" songs. "Down the road" is maybe a little better and at least has some good violin work. I haven't heard the first one in a while so I'll have to pay attention to "lonely wind" next time I do.
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Posted By: Braka1
Date Posted: September 25 2020 at 11:12
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Maybe. I haven't listened to anything they've done in ages. But what are they supposed to do - become roof plumbers? ------------- Believe me Pope Paul, my toes are clean |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: September 25 2020 at 11:39
I don't disagree as far as Livgren and Walsh, but the band does still have two of its founding members, Rich and Phil, and Billy Greer and David Ragsdale aren't newcomers. Now, a band like Foreigner, with its leader taking a voluntary timeout and sending hired guns out to play the band's music? THAT is a cover band.  ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: September 25 2020 at 13:01
Hi, I think BB simply got tired of dealing with the wrong kind of people ... the music itself, in all of his work, is just fine and special in its own way and he is a wonderful interview and person to talk to according to the Space Pirate. Being disillusion-ed with the business and everything else, was probably the reason why he "retired" but as far as I know, he is only retired from playing music ... not doing other things related to drumming and music! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: September 25 2020 at 14:19
| Who the heck said Fish was retired? He has a new album that was just released today as a matter of fact. If he did announce his retirement he must have done so very recently but I didn't hear it. |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: September 25 2020 at 14:20
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Fish announced that a while back that he was retiring and that this would be his final album.
Here is an article from 2015 that said he would retire in 2017 after the release of Weltschmerz, which was supposed to be released in 2017, but ended up delayed until now. %3ca%20href=" rel="nofollow - https://www.loudersound.com/news/fish-aims-for-2017-retirement#:~:text=Fish%20aims%20for%202017%20retirement%20By%20Martin%20Kielty,a%20set%20of%20re-releases%20and%20a%20farewell%20tour. "> https://www.loudersound.com/news/fish-aims-for-2017-retirement#:~:text=Fish%20aims%20for%202017%20retirement%20By%20Martin%20Kielty,a%20set%20of%20re-releases%20and%20a%20farewell%20tour." rel="nofollow - https://www.loudersound.com/news/fish-aims-for-2017-retirement#:~:text=Fish%20aims%20for%202017%20retirement%20By%20Martin%20Kielty,a%20set%20of%20re-releases%20and%20a%20farewell%20tour. ------------- 
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Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: September 25 2020 at 14:42
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Also, I voted no. I've really liked their last 3 albums. -------------
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: September 25 2020 at 15:31
With Fish being Scottish, with this no true artist claim, I'm ever more reminded of the No True Scotsman fallacy. Scotty MacKilt declares that no Scotsmen would put sugar and fish in his porridge. Derek William Dick declares that he is a Scotsman and he puts sugar and fish in his porridge and drops a haddock and some sugar in his bowl. Scotty screams that no true Scotsman puts sugar and fish in his porridge! A now angry Dick picks up the fish and smacks Steve Rothery in the head with it for having no business being in this example. If maybe it is time for Kansas to retire, then that is contingent on if Kansas wants to retire or is forced to retire due to circumstances as I see it. Based on my opinion of the music had I heard it, certainly not. I won't say when it's time for the band to retire -- not my call. ------------- Just a fanboy passin' through. |
Posted By: The Stygian Heresy
Date Posted: September 25 2020 at 19:19
| Kansas should continue. (Every time there's a poll, a message says 'You cannot vote in this poll'. I don't know why that is.) Since I can't vote, I'll put it in words, No, they should absolutely not retire. I find Absence to be even better than preceding Prelude. In fact, I think Absence is one of their best six or seven CDs, ever. I enjoy the entire disc. Sure, the only real strong prog piece is the short instrumental; but as a rock band with many prog tendencies, I love them, and hope they continue to rock on. I agree with many fans that the first five albums were their strongest -- and the most prog, even with those two or three bluesier numbers, ouch; but as largely different lineup in a different decade, I'm just happy they still compose killer tunes, some rock, some prog. Kansas remains my favorite band of all time. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: September 25 2020 at 19:35
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Despite having registered at this site over a decade ago, you still have Forum Newbie status due to your low post count, and forum newbies don't have the ability to vote in the polls. You have 34 points now, and I think only 40 are needed before you can vote (50 max). It won't take many posts before you earn the coveted second star and the wonderful privileges that come with it. That restriction was put in place because of some abuse that was going on, and to encourage new members (and older ones such as yourself that rarely post) to join in on the conversations and post your thoughts more. ------------- Just a fanboy passin' through. |
Posted By: Enchant X
Date Posted: September 25 2020 at 21:59
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: September 25 2020 at 22:20
So cruel...  Keep Hogarth in as a background vocalist, plus additional keyboards and guitar, and as a dancer though (think Stacia with Hawkwind)*. Marillion could call the new album Hog-Fish. It's like a dogfish except instead of barking it squeals. (j/k) * a reference many may not get. ------------- Just a fanboy passin' through. |
Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: September 25 2020 at 23:02
| in the long run these bands make no money on new music---only on touring---Howe has said not new music from Yes---(its a tribute band at this point anyway)--he has no good writing partners in the band anyway---and they make money from tours---I'm not a fan of Kansas but heard some of their last album and it wasn't bad--plus Tom Breslin is a good guy and talented. |
Posted By: Enchant X
Date Posted: September 26 2020 at 00:15
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Tom Breslin's performance on the latest CD is about the only thing I did like
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Posted By: iluvmarillion
Date Posted: September 26 2020 at 00:43
| Gee I thought it was a pretty enjoyable recording so I don't agree with your comments at all. And your comments about Fish and Marillion are misinformed. You should listen to Absence of Presence again to at least justify your $42 purchase. |
Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: September 26 2020 at 01:45
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To my mind they haven't done anything particularly memorable since 1978. But there's no reason why they shouldn't carry on doing what they do for as long as they want to do it. There are some who dig it, so why not? ------------- Soldato of the Pan Head Mafia. We'll make you an offer you can't listen to. http://bandcamp.com/jpillbox" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp Profile |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: September 26 2020 at 02:28
| The last 2 albums are enjoyable. There is still plenty of life in their music and they are way better than most of what is now still available. Anyway why on earth are we trying to 'retire' any prog bands?! Lets retire all the useless pop crap that is being put out instead. |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: September 26 2020 at 04:01
| No |
Posted By: FatherChristmas
Date Posted: September 26 2020 at 04:25
------------- "Music is the wine that fills the cup of silence" - Robert Fripp "I am an anti-Christ" - Johnny Rotten |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: September 26 2020 at 07:09
Hi, I'm not sure that is quite fair ... while I tend to prefer FISH's acting style over the other one, the band without him have produced a lot of magnificent material ... quite different in many ways, but their history alone would suggest that a band would not have stuck it out so long without some sort of success ... and Marillion has had that ... maybe not as visible in America's commercial standards! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: September 26 2020 at 07:24
Steve Walsh unfortunately cannot sing anymore. Livgren was doing some christian rock/AOR at some point, quite bland and uninteresting. I liked the new album, quite enjoyable.
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Posted By: dougmcauliffe
Date Posted: September 26 2020 at 07:36
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I just relistened to The Prelude Implicit last night and I think that's a great album with awesome production and intensity, kinda in the same vein as modern spocks beard (ted leonard era) in a way. With This Heart, Visibility Zero, Voyage of Eight Eighteen, Rhythms in the Spirit, Camouflage, all great songs. ------------- The sun has left the sky... ...Now you can close your eyes |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: September 26 2020 at 07:49
Who is Tom Breslin?
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Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: September 26 2020 at 09:54
Listen to Kerry Livgren's first solo album, Seeds of Change. It's anything BUT bland and uninteresting. There are a number of great vocalists contributing, like the late, great Ronnie James Dio (two songs), Steve Walsh, Davey Moire (Frank Zappa's recording engineer!), Ambrosia's David Pack, Le Roux's Jeff Pollard, and even Kerry himself sings one song. Phil Ehart and Barriemore Barlow play drums. Kerry's instrumental album One of Several Possible Musiks is an Eighties classic! ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: September 26 2020 at 09:55
American keyboardist Tom Brislin. He's led his own band, Spiraling, and has played keyboards for Yes, The Syn, Renaissance and Camel. ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: September 26 2020 at 10:20
I know Seeds of Rage. I was not talking about it. I did say AOR/christian rock after all. |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: September 26 2020 at 11:43
Change, not Rage. And the songs therein qualify as both AOR & Christian rock. ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: September 26 2020 at 11:49
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I don't know what the situation is like in Australia for buying CDs/LPs or if you are able to listen to it online. Were you able to listen to it online before buying? $42 (AUD) seems like the price for a small box set. This is about $30 (US). I listened to it a couple weeks ago on this YouTube playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLG3sKYOVDEGOT5UO9Hee5eU67CdPeFLvZ" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLG3sKYOVDEGOT5UO9Hee5eU67CdPeFLvZ I think I would rate this around 3.70 out of 5. At that rating it will be on my list of things to get, but won't be a priority. Sometimes waiting a year or two, the prices drop.
------------- ---------- i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: September 26 2020 at 11:54
Yeah, I figured that's who he meant. ;)
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Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: September 26 2020 at 11:56
Change (I was thinking of something else, sorry). It's the only Livgren album I have and listen to from time to time. Livgren had that AD band and then I did listen to a couple of his solo albums I lost interest TBH. |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: September 26 2020 at 14:36
Now, now... ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: foregonillusions
Date Posted: September 26 2020 at 15:14
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I think it's only underwhelming if you think they were going to create something in the vein of SFA. Someone, possibly you, posted a poll before the latest album's release with answers related to how progressive/AOR would the album be. One of the choices was a mixture of AOR and progressive rock, favoring the former, and I think that pretty much sums it up. It's a decent album, and the first two songs and the instrumental are awesome, "The Song the River Sang" is a piece I wasn't expecting, and I'm quite pleased with it. If The Absence of Presence was anything like Yes' Heaven & Earth, then I would be more sympathetic. Also, Kansas is still a great live band. (They even play Song For America, and it's glorious!) I hope they are able to eventually come to Australia so you can see them as you would not be disappointed. |
Posted By: RaphaelT
Date Posted: September 26 2020 at 17:27
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No. Don't rush the band to retire just because they made an album that does not suit you. The next album may be great. Or this weak album may open yourself to you in other circumstances. And watch the band live. If they can still deliver the old material with passion, without feelings of repetitiveness and tiredness, why can't they provide other fans with joy of listening? Only unremovable repetitiveness and tiredness justify the retirement of artists. Unless they choose otherwise. ------------- yet you still have time! |
Posted By: iluvmarillion
Date Posted: September 26 2020 at 17:46
The jewel case CD should be around $24 -$30 (AUD) depending where you order it from within Australia (still in stage IV lockdown here in Melbourne).
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Posted By: Enchant X
Date Posted: September 27 2020 at 06:28
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Posted By: Mormegil
Date Posted: September 28 2020 at 06:05
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Nope - They should keep doing what they enjoy, even if no one is listening. ------------- Welcome to the middle of the film. |
Posted By: Enchant X
Date Posted: October 01 2020 at 04:19
for your arrogance ... I`ll never stop listening to them they are my favorite band but I will stop blindly rushing in and buying their new material without hearing it first
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: October 01 2020 at 09:19
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: October 01 2020 at 09:50
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Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: October 02 2020 at 12:30
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In a word, yes. ------------- "It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno |
Posted By: iluvmarillion
Date Posted: October 03 2020 at 00:28
You need to preface what you say with the words, "At this point of time". Time has a funny effect on people's taste in music. What you like one day changes the next day. Tastes never stay the same unless you're tone deaf.
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Posted By: Enchant X
Date Posted: October 03 2020 at 06:54
and I apologize for calling Blacksword arrogant it was wrong of me I guess I'm just really disappointed nobody is posting reviews nobody's listening it's as if I'm the only fool to rush out and spend $42 on it... makes me feel like an idiot. Which is why should Kansas retire came up in my mind and I wanted feedback on the question  Kansas have a great reputation to protect I don't want to see it tarnished with so so material anymore. After their great come back album The Prelude Implicate I was expecting so much more than I got... disappointing, atleast to my tastes. I'll put substance before flash in that order when I judge a CD and its rating.
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Posted By: axeman
Date Posted: October 12 2020 at 08:33
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I'm a little surprised that I can't agree with the idea that if Livgren and Walsh aren't in the band anymore there is no point. I think that is a good point. I just can't agree, totally. It sounds like the current crew have done a good job of keeping the "Kansas sound" alive. There is also another reason: the band may have never made it without Phil Ehart's drive. Phil was *the* guy showing up in people's offices, not taking "no" and selling the band. He even spent some time in England once he decided that prog-drumming was what he wanted to do and improve at. So from that perspective, it's Kansas as long as Phil wants to keep it running. I ended up really liking Throwing Mountains, anyway. ------------- -John |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: October 12 2020 at 08:37
| Gave the new album another listen the other day and enjoyed it quite a bit. |
Posted By: Enchant X
Date Posted: October 25 2020 at 05:28
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I used Mp3gain to analyse what's wrong with this recording it peaks at 100.5 decibels ....Loudness wars killed the sound especially the drums, also its slightly distorted, I knew there was something I didn't like about it, my ears automatically tune out when the volume is so tightly compressed ,anything above 96 decibels and I have that reaction, higher than that it kills the dynamic range, It's been brick walled folks
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Posted By: dougmcauliffe
Date Posted: October 25 2020 at 05:58
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Yeah I can agree the new album is really compressed and loud which is a shame because The Prelude Implicit is an extremely well produced album. They really could use Jeff Glixman on board, I have to listen at very low volume, the snare sounds like crap. ------------- The sun has left the sky... ...Now you can close your eyes |