Prog hasn't been popular since the 80s, really, you're right.  Isn't it being more abundant a good thing? 

As Steve mentioned above, DYI home recordings allows for the production and appearance of more one-man bands, but I am of the opinion that one-man projects often lack the depth and fullness that a multiplicity of perspectives seem to benefit from. So, I'd say, as of right now, the interest and ability to "make it" as a prog rock band is maligned and thus diminishing. The "Renaissance" of the Teens is, I believe, over.  

Many people agree with you that the '"Renaissance" of the Teens' is over, mainly reviewers, who I could make many unnecessary rude jokes about. I won't, knowing my track record. 

I certainly agree that bands are usually better than one-man projects. I, however, like the new stuff by the new bands (I think it's better than all the 90s and 00s stuff, and nearly up to the 70s standards), and I hope I'm not alone. What with young people's attention spans, and modern prog barely scraping the charts, prog could die (or be dying right now).

Mind you, I also thought that in the 2000s. I could well be fretting pointlessly again. However, if you're right and 2020 has been a slow down, then we must hope.

^I suppose you're right. As Steve said, it only matters to 1% of the listening public (or less).

In the 80's? Only as far as the more mainstream bands go(PF, Genesis, Rush, Yes, JT, etc). For prog in general that is probably the weakest decade. No one paid much attention to it. You had a lot of fans of those bands popping up at that time(including myself) but it's not like they could go online(because that wasn't an option then) and look up the term "progressive rock." So maybe they knew these bands were similar but just thought of them as "classic rock" bands or something.

Er... why are we forgetting neo prog? That had considerable success.

Maybe in the UK or Europe but not so much in the US. In the US only Marillion were successful and only moderately successful at that. I listened to the radio a lot back then and only heard them maybe half a dozen times on the radio then they sort of disappeared(although in reality they didn't they just changed singers). I became a fan anyway. I never heard of Pendragon or IQ(let a lone any of the others)until the early 90's and that was only because I subscribed to prog mailorder catalogs. 

I'll admit it's debatable though because other than Dream Theater Marillion were still bigger than any non prog metal prog band in the 90's. However, as a scene in general the 90's are considered by most prog fans to have had a bigger over all resurgence than the 80's and I personally don't disagree. The internet was the main catalyst for that.

I have had my first listen today of David Minasian’s new album, kindly shared by him. Utterly brilliant.

Marillion go from strength to strength. Pendragon have released their best album ever. Piles of new artists we share with each other on a daily basis.

Good music never dies. It doesn’t matter what you call it. It never dies, and there will always be great musicians making great music.

In Lazland, the glass is always half full.....

Lazland must be a nice place to visit. 

I hope you're right. After all, classical music had become unpopular by the 50s, seventy or eighty years ago now and still some great classical music is being made. 

I agree. You don't hear much about classical these days(or jazz like you mentioned)and yet here it is hundreds of years later still appreciated and played on the radio. In fact classical if often used as a way to see if you can really play your instrument. If you can play classical you can play anything and I suppose the same could be said about jazz. Prog is niche but other than maybe a handful of bands it's pretty much always been that way. Do you think your average music fan in the 70's who wasn't a prog fan knew much about Gentle Giant, VDGG, Focus or PFM? Probably not. Yes, I have no doubt prog will survive just like classical, jazz, the blues, the beatles, led zeppelin and the rolling stones. They might not be as big as some of those but they have enough fans to survive in the future. I wish there were more people my age into it but at least there seems to be plenty of younger fans.

Anyway, to give a formal answer to the op's question I will say neither.

I totally agree. I think it's pretty much always been that way but I think that's especially true these days.  Just look at this website at all the subgenres. Several of them such as neo prog, all the prog metals and post rock(as well as maybe a few others)weren't even around in the seventies or if they were they were in their very embryonic stages(ie prog metal).

 

Prog has been making a comeback ever since the birth of Neo-Prog in the early 1980's, and long may it continue. I mentioned some of my favourite Neo-Prog bands in another thread, so I won't annoy Cristi again by repeating them all here, but I forgot to mention the Scottish band, Pallas.

Well of course it is. Where have you been? 

Hear, hear! I'd add Riverside - Wasteland is brilliant; This Winter Machine - The Man who Never Was is a superb album. Haken turn out good album after good album, as do Big Big Train.

The only slight downer was my (almost) favourite band IQ (except of course for Camel) releasing Resistance. Whilst not a bad album, it is my least favourite of all the albums they've done, but after the incredible Road of Bones, I can forgive them.

Prog lives. And that's 50 years on from the 70s, which shows its longevity.

Was anyone listening to 1920s music in the 1970s??

Actually, many of the greatest musicians from the 60s and 70s were listening to blues albums from the 20s and 30s. The Stones, Zeppelin, Jeff Beck, Clapton, Ian Anderson, The Allman Brothers, Stevie Ray Vaughan, ZZ Top, Bob Dylan, David Gilmour, Frank Zappa, John Mayall, The Yardbirds, Paul Butterfield, The Doors, Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Bonnie Raitt, Fleetwood Mac, etc.

Robert Johnson, Skip James, Son House, Lead Belly, Sonny Boy Williamson I and II, Memphis Minnie, Blind Willie Johnson, Bill Broonzy, Bessie Smith, Ma Rainey -- if you hear hear the Stones singing "Love in Vain" and "Stop Breakin' Down", or Zeppelin playing "When the Levee Breaks", "In My Time of Dying", "Nobody's Fault But Mine" or "Gallows Pole", or Cream playing "Crossroads", it's because of that much earlier era.

Then throw in the great jazz players and singers, country and bluegrass musicians from the era that influenced that generation. So, yeah. And as a teenager in the 70s, I was listening to them as well. You can't play the blues without listening to the source material.

The only problem with that is:

1979 Steve Hackett - spectral mornings, Univers Zero -heresie, Bruford - One of a  kind, Pink Floyd - The Wall

1980 Yes - Drama, Rush- Permanent Waves, Peter Gabriel - III, Eloy - Colours

1981 Rush - Moving Pictures , Camel - Nude, Dun - Eros, Eskaton - 4 Visions

1982  Peter Gabriel - security, Twelfth Night - Fact and Fiction, Rush - Signals, Kate Bush - The Dreaming

The music that we hear from all these newer artists to me is just that. Riverside, Haken, The Pineapple Thief and yes Steven Wilson....its not progressive rock music anymore, but merely has prog attributes.

The foresight (probably not, but would be cool if true) of M@x and other creators of this website to call it ProgArchives~Ultimate Prog Rock Resource, makes a lot of sense to me.....at least going forward now.

My issue is as others have noted the ease of recording now has made this genre and all its sub-genres almost impossible to listen to much of it without having that young persons ADD....after 15min I'm done and feel like I need to move on to the next. I don't get fully immersed into the music anymore, which is a necessity to understand some of our music.

If I look at my entire music collection....LPs, CDs, Digital misc stuff on cassettes and R2R....not sure I have enough time (years) to listen to it all.

Do I let my tried and true suffer or do I invest precious time in exploring new music?? 

And there lies part of the problem and that is the name. Some people expect it to always be progressing. They don't expect it with classical, jazz or blues only prog rock and that's just because of the name. 

As for the amount of music there is such a thing as having too much imo. Some prog collectors have way too many albums and will never be able to listen to it all. Some stuff maybe you don't even want to hear more than a few times but you want in your collection anyway. For me I will put a limit on it at some point. Having 10,000 or more albums is just a bit too crazy so it will be less than that(maybe half of that)but I'm not there yet.

Hi,

Agreed to an extent. When you see the requests for bands to be included in PA, it's pretty obvious that the abundance is quite large and the listing of requests is even larger.

The biggest issue I have with this, is a sad one ... I'm not sure that we are giving these a proper listen, and that makes it seem like they are less popular, and a result of a lot of DIY recordings, and then, the ability of that band to get any kind of public appreciation/knowledge is dependent on sites like PA to give them some credibility.

Honestly, I think this is the "stage 1" of the new process, and one of these days, one or two of these will click big, and then, no one will worry, or say a whole lot about the DIY process ... honestly, with the exception of a handful of folks in the old "studio" setup, very little of it was better than the band itself, and the ability of the music to last, was not exactly the studio's ability, but any band's ability!

I think that this is a time to "learn" and "feel" your way ... and the results will begin making themselves visible sooner or later. I don't see the point of trashing a DIY process, as it is a logical upgrade from the previous design, and in time, it should have a lot more INVENTIVENESS that most studios EVER had ... why? Easy ... more folks doing it and trying different things!

Prog will be fine, and get even better!

Catcher10 wrote: I just don't think there will be anymore progressive music made that we might compare to the glory days of 70/80s. Newer bands can record music that sounds like it but its not progressive anymore, it will only have prog attributes or tendencies, I don't want to call it copy cat recording. ...

This is our fault, more than it is the actual "music's" fault ... we were the ones that determined a particular number of bands for this or that, and then went out and said very stupid things about how they created the music ... and now we complaint about ... any new music being "copycat" ... it CAN ONLY BE SO IF IT IS DESIGNED LIKE ALL THE ONES WE MARKED SPECIAL.

It's just like ... CITY OF LOST CHILDREN ... we took away the DREAM ... by saying that it had to have this and this and this, and then a loud organ, and then a crazy bass player and then a nutz guitar, and so on ... and in the end, that is the stupidest definition of music that has EVER been defined. Not an inch of it, actually really defines what "progressive music" really was ... so ... AND IT'S TRUE HERE ... we look for a "sound like" ... or "sound alike" ... just look at the number of posts and how many folks, including the knowledgeable ones, making sure they participate ... are they improving "prog/progressive"? ... I, personally, have my doubts ... 

On top of it ... we even have the "instruments that created progressive music" ... when they were used all over the world, and other than the synthesizer, I am not convinced that they are the reason why the music was developed. Heck ... I don't see a whole lot of that in KC!

Read the GG sound like thread ... I'm not sure that people know what they would want from GG ... since they have so much to offer from so many different directions, and no two of them go to the same place! So the postings go every where, and makes it even harder to define and detail what/who might really be GG!

Hi,

This is something that does not, necessarily, have anything to do with "progressive music", or "prog", in my view of things ... we still love to hear Albinoni and Handel and Vivaldi ... and we do not worry about its progression.

Music has been changing since it has been "recorded" and this is now on what ... possibly some 600/700 years?

In the end, we will hear "jazz" the same way that we do "baroque", or any other "style". 

So, in some sense, it's probably OK to say that Prog is dying out ... and based on music history? ... it never died since folks still listen to it, and still love it ... and are you going to tell me that electrical musicians don't do baroque? You would be incorrect!

I think the comment, just needs a little more history, and DE's posting is a great example of how people love music and its history and where it comes from. Prog/Progressive, will likely fall into the same area, but I doubt it will die, or will make a "come back" ... music, of all kinds NEVER WENT AWAY ... only our ears turned to other places, like home, wife, kids, car, work ... and less music!

10,000!!! Are you whacked LOL... Based on some of the music sites I am on that people discuss collections, around 1000-2000 is about what is a lot for many or a higher end avg, and I'm talking LPs. CD I have read people might have 2-3,000 because used CDs are cheap now, nobody wants them they have no resale value.

But even still, do the math....say 3000 albums and you listen to 3 albums per day that's 1000 days needed or about 3yrs to listen to it all. Be realistic in how many FULL albums you listen to in a day or say a month......say 12 full albums in a month would take you 21yrs. With family, work, responsibilities closer to that than 3yrs.

The most I had was about 1200 LPs, over the past many years I sold, traded albums for other stuff and lost couple hundred in several house moves. I've got around 700 LPs now and that is very manageable, I could sell some still. But yea there are gobs of people who are true collectors of records and CDs that buy to have more.....They will never listen to it all

I was trying to be funny.

Tough crowd, tough crowd,,, 

Really? Even standard rock, blues, blues rock and country? I think different genres should do what they can to mix things up and be different and yes even be innovative at times but if they don't it shouldn't be seen as the end of the world. Plus, who's to say what's innovative and what isn't? What sounds like innovation to one person might just sound like a rehash to someone else and vice versa. Also, an artist could think they are being innovative and some people might think they are but really they aren't. 

 

 I agree (unless Mr Wilson manages to get a number one album). It never went away but I do think  it's as healthy now as it has been for a while. There's still plenty of good prog being released, the question is how many bands will be able to keep going with no gig income.

No, I'm not whacked. The people who have that many are. Lol. 

Actually you can easily listen to 10 or even 20 albums a week. For ten you can do five of those on the weekend(not difficult at all). I'm sure it's not too difficult to listen to ten albums in a weekend either(five on Saturday and Five on Sunday). So ten times 52 is 520. That's 520 albums a year. In five years you can listen to over 2,500 albums. Easy peasy.

Rock & Country continue to evolve though in Country's case not in a good way. Jazz certainly evolves there's loads of interesting stuff going on there.

 

So that's 20 years to listen to 10,000 albums once?

 

Blimey, I still haven't got through my Flower Kings box set yet.

Hi,

I got as far as 2300, and when CD's made it around, I started switching and am now to about 700-800 LP's ... the biggest issue being how heavy they are when you have to move, and so on ... 

I "started" the collection in/around 1970, and by the time Space Pirate Radio came about (Jan 1974) I already had probably 400/500 albums and it continued until the 1990's when I had to stop buying LP's but still got the important ones like KS, TD and so on.

I have HEARD and KNOW every single album I have or CD ... anyone can come over and pull out one and play something and I will tell you what that is. My contention is that the QUALITY with which you listen to these things is the reason why you remember or forget them ... I sincerely doubt that you can give any band a fair listen when you have it on the earphones and it is playing while you are driving ... and that is the greatest complaint about abilities to listen to things these days ... you know right away by the comments that it has not been heard ... easy to see why ... why would anyone make stupid comments when they "HEARD" it and then not have a reasonable comment about it?

This is the toughest part of PA ... not to mention the pessimists and people that don't believe in "prog" or "progressive" ... and continually post stuff that makes it look like it's a corpse in a casket!

Music, or the arts, NEVER DIES ... it's our ability to listen and process it that does ... because there is no "dedication", to listening ... heck, I lost a girlfriend because of that ... and in the end all I could say was ... good riddance! ... because life without the arts is not worth living!

Catcher10 wrote: ... ..... say 12 full albums in a month would take you 21yrs. With family, work, responsibilities closer to that than 3yrs. ...

Quality is inversely proportional to quantity ... the main issue I have with it all the how it is heard and paid attention to ... and in the past 30 years or so, commercial music has taken the "attention" out of the music in favor of snippets and songs that you pay 99 cents for, thus making it look like that albums and longer materials are crap and not worthy of attention and listening.

Try 50 years ... and no ... I don't "collect" ... I only have the music that I love!

Ok, I'll stop pretending it's been a great year! Some of my favourite albums come from this year, that's all (Love over Fear, Seven Seas, Virus).

And see the new artists added in this year alone (most of which have had recent releases in the last couple of years):

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=121914" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=121914

What exactly do you mean by that? 

 

Jon Anderson (20 albums)

Barclay James Harvest (26 albums)

Camel (18 albums)

Deep Purple (29 albums)

Electric Light Orchestra (20 albums)

Fruupp (4 albums)

 

I'll have 9 albums coming up next by David Gilmour.

 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUFeBYmR0DbJ8dofbfwZJbg/playlists?view_as=subscriber" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUFeBYmR0DbJ8dofbfwZJbg/playlists?view_as=subscriber

Well, I'm happy to see pretty much everyone saying it's not dead. My modern prog project is not a waste of time! 

So those bands are evidence that prog isn't dying? Hardly a raft of modern bands. I thought Gilmour only had 5 albums.

Or is this a merely a marketing push of your youtube channel? Looking to increase your subscribers from one? Is that Father Christmas or Floydian Pink Rose?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Gilmour_discography" rel="nofollow - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Gilmour_discography

 

My single subscriber to my Prog Britannia Channel is actually a Chinese robot called Gwangi.

Why did this Gwangi subscribe? Do you know?

My techie friend down at my local computer store said Chinese robots are automatically  programmed to subscribe to any new YouTube channels, although no one knows why. It's a Chinese puzzle.

Is a video album a dvd?

The simple answer is no, Prog is not dying out, but is has, as it must, changed over time.

There is a difference between quality and quantity. Sure, there could be a thousand new prog bands but if they all sound the same, or sound like a band of the past, if that is the case, then the quality comes into question, especially if innovation and uniqueness is part of the criteria. J.S. Mill said that anyone who has experienced the higher quality pleasure (his topic) would never be completely satisfied with the lower quality pleasure. My own experience matches this. But note that the lower quality pleasures are still pleasures. Yes, Vangelis, and Jethro Tull are all my favorites, but I still enjoy down 'n dirty rock 'n' roll such as Grand Funk Railroad and Kiss when I am in the mood.

Yes, the five David Gilmour DVD's are listed as video albums on Wikipedia.

More like the past 10 years imo. 

Likewise man! I've got some sessions booked to track an EP for my project this winter, I'm excited to share my music! 

And I completely forgot York's own, very wonderful Mostly Autumn, whose last two albums (Sight of Day and White Rainbow) have been exceptional.

True math wise, but being realistic every single weekend? Especially for those that are married and have a family?? And the real issue is will you listen to each one, meaning no repetitions....So once you listen to AC/DC it will be 5 years before you listen to them again 

Not sure I know how to respond to all of this . 

You make it sound like I am slamming anything past 1980 or not giving credit to music past 1980. What years I mention is an opinion, that's all when people discuss the "glory years of progressive rock". And yes analog is a natural sound, there is no drum machine that will sound as natural as an actual real drum kit, but I have tons of music that is created electronically and not analog based and not all of it is rock based music either.

I really don't know what your 2nd red paragraph is meaning to my comment on Riverside and Steven Wilson and ProgArchives name..

And your 3rd red comment is soooo not me at all, you have me mistaken with someone else. I have recordings from the 30s-40s-50s that I enjoy as well new recordings that I know stem from the glory years and before....I take that comment negatively from you, when I buy records (I don't stream ANYTHING, I pay for 100% of all my music) it's because I have an appreciation of what the artist is trying to convey......and I show my appreciation by paying money for their music.

Very weird post.....

Both.  Perpetual change.

Yea but aren't you like 15yrs old or something, no responsibilities but listen to music and play video games all day long ......Ohh those were teen years, gosh I played records and tapes all day long and then put headphones on at night, because adults have to sleep! 

That's ok with me. I'm not that big into AC/DC. 

Anyway, if you drive around a lot you would be surprised how much you can listen to in your car. It adds up.I personally don't like to listen to music interrupted so for me it only works on long trips but if you don't mind breaking up moving pictures or the yes album in smaller chunks where you listen to part of yours is no disgrace on the way to work and the second half on the way home or whatever then that might be ok with you. :P 

I was much cooler at 13...

Not so much 70s prog, but you take what you get I suppose.

I was 15 years old in 1974, but I couldn't play music all day back then 'cause I had to go to school, although you're right about me listening to music through headphones at night, so as not to disturb my parents.  

Thanks!

I was -14 in 1974 LOL 

I was going to say; there's no way Paul is only 15!

I was 15 in 2003 .

My bad....who is the member that is really young?? Don't we have a prepubescent kid that hangs around here 

I can't keep all our members straight anymore........

^ That happens.  It's why one should avoid getting rid of their prog unless absolutely necessary (assuming you like phyz meed), and even then keep the hard-to-find stuff.

His favorite bands/artists: Ayreon, Mike Oldfield, Gentle Giant, Rush, Tull, Sabbath, TD, JMJ, Vangelis, etc.

His first concert ever, when he was 16, was Magma.  He's also seen King Crimson, Jean-Michel Jarre (twice), Stick Men, Steven Wilson, Riverside, and a few others.

He works at a sandwich restaurant - just a couple of nights ago he was telling me a guy came in the other day and was chatting to him about music... he asked my son for a prog recommendation, and his reply was "Nektar - Remember the Future."

Progressive rock will never die out.

That's awesome.........Nektar rulez too!