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Should Gentle Giant have continued after Civilian?

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Topic: Should Gentle Giant have continued after Civilian?
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Subject: Should Gentle Giant have continued after Civilian?
Date Posted: December 23 2020 at 13:44
One of the great tragedies in prog imo is the fact that GG never really reformed properly when just about every other major prog band did. Opinions?



Replies:
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: December 23 2020 at 13:48
I don't know, maybe.
TBH I do not know exactly why they called it quits in the early 80s. 


Posted By: Mirakaze
Date Posted: December 23 2020 at 13:52
I wouldn't have minded it; Civilian is the one post-prog Gentle Giant album that I actually like and it would have been interesting to see the band continue in a similar direction. On the other hand, the band hated working on it and were apparently quite tired of the professional music business in general by 1980, so I can't blame them for calling it quits.


Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: December 23 2020 at 13:55
^I think it had something to do with a combination of them not really being able to break through in a big way commercially plus the fact they didn't like the direction they were more or less forced to take because of record company pressures. I think they just got burned out and didn't want to keep going without any major payoffs from their musical compromise to a different sound. That's just my own speculation though. 


Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: December 23 2020 at 14:18
I say maybe, but the decision was, and always will be, up to the band members.

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The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"


Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: December 23 2020 at 14:23
Originally posted by Progosopher Progosopher wrote:

I say maybe, but the decision was, and always will be, up to the band members.

Yep. I guess we could all be mad that the Beatles never really got back together either(well except for catcher anyway). Or Led Zeppelin for that matter(ok, they technically did but didn't record any new material after ITTOD). 


Posted By: Chaser
Date Posted: December 23 2020 at 14:27
Yes, but only if they returned to their original mission statement: "to expand the frontiers of popular music at the risk of being deeply unpopular"

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Songs cast a light on you


Posted By: dougmcauliffe
Date Posted: December 23 2020 at 14:32
I'm going to say no, because in an interview with Derek Shulman he pretty much made it clear that by the end their hearts weren't in it anymore, and it started to feel like a bit of a burden to the band. I'm happy with the jaw dropping discography we have, including civilian. I believe you can't force yourself to write music to cater the fans when you're checked out, cause it generally comes out the other end uninspired.

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The sun has left the sky...
...Now you can close your eyes


Posted By: Progfan1958
Date Posted: December 23 2020 at 14:34
Absolutely they should have continued. I saw them on the Civilian tour, and they were still in top form.  In the end it was the market that broke them, but if they had had a better record company behind the band I think they could have had a very interesting future.

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Progfan1958
"Peace to you all"
"La paix est avec vous"
"Pax vobiscum"
"Al salaam a'alaykum"
"Vrede zij met u allen"
"Shalom aleichem"


Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: December 23 2020 at 14:46
Given what they were creating as they ended, probably not.

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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.


Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: December 23 2020 at 14:52
Originally posted by Man With Hat Man With Hat wrote:

Given what they were creating as they ended, probably not.

I think it would have been interesting if they went in a more new wave direction while keeping the hard rock elements(like missing persons for example). 


Posted By: iluvmarillion
Date Posted: December 23 2020 at 15:47
I voted not sure. The problem wasn't about what Gentle Giant should have done after Civilian. The problem was what's wrong with the music public not liking Gentle Giant.


Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: December 23 2020 at 16:22
I read they thought they couldn't take it any further than they did....and  One of them became a big record executive.


Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: December 23 2020 at 18:39
It's sad we never got the chance to see them again, but at least, they left their legacy intact.


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: December 23 2020 at 19:17
Originally posted by iluvmarillion iluvmarillion wrote:

I voted not sure. The problem wasn't about what Gentle Giant should have done after Civilian. The problem was what's wrong with the music public not liking Gentle Giant.

Hi,

AND, I think that a lot of that came out of the record companies not wishing to support stuff that was not making them money ... and GG, in those days, should have gotten COMPLETELY AWAY from the record companies and gotten onto their own ownership of the music and its distribution ... but it was easier to just give up. 

GG has stated that their this and that were no longer into it, but I think that a lot of the stuff underneath is what caused the problems. 

This group was not the only one that had issues with a record company ... one well known comedy group decided to "sign" with a record company, and it got a couple of dollars, however, none of their albums were ever heard from again, or their members, which kinda tells you that the record company probably said something like as long as they break even who cares ... right? 

But, in some ways, it was probably the best ... I doubt that GG would have been able to create new material that was as determined and eccentric as the early stuff, and be able to play it ... and when that happens, it's time to hang up the ballet shoes ... your feet can't handle any more bleeding!


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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: December 23 2020 at 21:46
^I don't know. I think if Genesis were able to make the transition then I think GG would have eventually been able to make the transition too. The thing is as a band they probably just didn't have the patience to wait that long. 


Posted By: b_olariu
Date Posted: December 24 2020 at 00:20
Only if they went back to prog

Still they dominate that decade with some spectacular albums, they are legends anyway


Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: December 24 2020 at 00:28
I BET YOU THOUGHT THEY COULDN'T DO IT?!

Lol. GG is one of those bands that could clearly have continued on in whatever style they wanted. I think they did it right letting it be a good solid even 10 year/decade long chapter of, for a good 85-90% of it, being top tier progressive rock IMHO. One of the few bands where the weaker entries don't tarnish their discography IMHO!

I just got my 1975 reprint tour shirt in directly from the band's new store in NYC!:

Clap Tongue Cool


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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021


Posted By: DarkTower
Date Posted: December 24 2020 at 07:27
No. Last 3 are so dull, they should have stop after Interview.


Posted By: dougmcauliffe
Date Posted: December 24 2020 at 07:52
I can't be the only one here who thinks most of The Missing Piece and Civilian are pretty solid. I think it still sounds like Gentle Giant, just a little more simple and poppy. Certainly not their best work, but I don't think either of those are offensively bad or anything. (Full disclosure, haven't heard Giant For a Day)

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The sun has left the sky...
...Now you can close your eyes


Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: December 24 2020 at 07:58
Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

I can't be the only one here who thinks most of The Missing Piece and Civilian are pretty solid. I think it still sounds like Gentle Giant, just a little more simple and poppy. Certainly not their best work, but I don't think either of those are offensively bad or anything. (Full disclosure, haven't heard Giant For a Day)

Giant for a day is a bit like open your eyes by Yes in that if it was released by another band nobody would think it was that awful. It's a half way decent pop/pop rock album with maybe some mild prog touches and gentle giantisms but it's a far cry from their proggy past. I actually like a few tracks on it especially the instrumental "spooky boogie." "Word from the wise" has some very good vocal harmonies and there's maybe a few other things too such as the catchy "little brown bag." Most of it is admittedly not that memorable but it's still worth checking out if you are a GG completionist or even a big fan. Just don't expect vintage prog GG.

I agree with you about the others. Both are maybe a bit uneven but with some solid moments. It's hard for me to pick one over the other. I possibly prefer civilian but not by much. The band could have gone out with a weaker record. At least this one doesn't have a song called "alien afternoon" on it. Wink


Posted By: dwill123
Date Posted: December 24 2020 at 09:56
Yes.  I liked 'Civilian'.


Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: December 24 2020 at 14:32
I have Civilian and wasn't really a fan---Interesting that iTunes sells all their music except Civilian.


Posted By: Heart of the Matter
Date Posted: December 24 2020 at 15:04
Yes, any following album would have been better than silence.


Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: December 24 2020 at 16:18
Originally posted by Heart of the Matter Heart of the Matter wrote:

Yes, any following album would have been better than silence.


I agree. Of course if they went in the direction of Genesis then people would complain endlessly(like they do about later Genesis) but you can't please everyone and a paycheck is still a paycheck. 

Anyway, I finally voted and I voted "yes."


Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: December 24 2020 at 16:27
Maybe. After Giant for a Day, they were on the way up again.

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Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: December 24 2020 at 17:43
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

I don't know, maybe.
TBH I do not know exactly why they called it quits in the early 80s. 

Because they weren't selling any albums, that's why.

Critically acclaimed, but never commercially successful. i hated them in the 70s: they were just too weird. It took me 20 years to "get" them and I bought all their albums, but too late to benefit them.


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A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life.


Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: December 24 2020 at 19:04
^Yeah, I think maybe they figured if they were going to go in a more mainstream direction they should get some kind of financial reward for it and when they didn't they said "f**k this we're out of here."


Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: December 24 2020 at 22:47
Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

I can't be the only one here who thinks most of The Missing Piece and Civilian are pretty solid. I think it still sounds like Gentle Giant, just a little more simple and poppy. Certainly not their best work, but I don't think either of those are offensively bad or anything. (Full disclosure, haven't heard Giant For a Day)

Giant For a Day is the only one I have any real negative feel on. I agree, the rest have their moments and aren't nearly as bad as people make them to be.

Two Weeks in Spain, Mountain Time, I Bet You Thought We Couldn't Do It, For Nobody etc. all catchy and that's just The Missing Piece!


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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021


Posted By: Heart of the Matter
Date Posted: December 25 2020 at 07:34
^ I love The Missing Piece. Probably the problem with it was not being able to satisfy the already established fan base, who were expecting something else.


Posted By: geekfreak
Date Posted: December 25 2020 at 07:52
My absolute honest opinion is Yes! Because i’ve really had a trying time. Listening to there so called supreme albums. And ZERO cannot get into them at all!

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Friedrich Nietzsche: "Without music, life would be a mistake."



Music Is Live

Two people are better off than one, for they can help each other succeed.



Keep Calm And Listen To The Music…
<


Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: December 25 2020 at 08:01
Originally posted by geekfreak geekfreak wrote:

My absolute honest opinion is Yes! Because i’ve really had a trying time. Listening to there so called supreme albums. And ZERO cannot get into them at all!

Ok, so then why would you want them to continue if you don't like them?


Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: December 25 2020 at 08:03
Originally posted by Heart of the Matter Heart of the Matter wrote:

^ I love The Missing Piece. Probably the problem with it was not being able to satisfy the already established fan base, who were expecting something else.

It seems that about half of the album(the second half)was geared towards their established fan base while side one was more about exploring different territories including more pop oriented stuff. 


Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: December 26 2020 at 01:45
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Heart of the Matter Heart of the Matter wrote:

^ I love The Missing Piece. Probably the problem with it was not being able to satisfy the already established fan base, who were expecting something else.

It seems that about half of the album(the second half)was geared towards their established fan base while side one was more about exploring different territories including more pop oriented stuff. 

Agreed; the issue is, it's extremely solid, catchy, timeless pop because the band, if we're being honest here, eclipses a lot of bands in general regardless of genre in terms of skill and musical prowess, lol.

It's like cognitive prog rock dissonance; it's really good pop but it's also GG and we want Cogs in Cogs part 2, etc...

This is why they're in my top 3 prog bands of all time lol.


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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021


Posted By: Heart of the Matter
Date Posted: December 26 2020 at 07:34
Expectation can be a b*tch: some artists reached their best moment playing against it, and others, well, ended like GG.


Posted By: BarryGlibb
Date Posted: December 26 2020 at 19:08
Recently released footage of the band in June 1980; back stage interview (below). The interesting question somewhere in the interview was something along the lines of "where do you see yourself in 10 years time?"...None of the band members where committal regardng this question...they all  avoided answering this specific question...the interviewer asked it more than once and none of them would answer it......I am sure they knew that the end was going to happen after this last US tour....and it did!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?utm_campaign=emailmarketing_102958596255&utm_medium=email&utm_source=shopify_email&v=29LaIgk0mpc&feature=youtu.be" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?utm_campaign=emailmarketing_102958596255&utm_medium=email&utm_source=shopify_email&v=29LaIgk0mpc&feature=youtu.be



Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: December 26 2020 at 22:23
I'd argue GG still has one of the best and relatively most consistent discographies. A fairly clean 10 year run.

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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021


Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: December 26 2020 at 23:15
I'm one of the minority who actually likes the last 3 albums but it was clear their time was up so i'm glad they called it quits and moved on.


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https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy


Posted By: iluvmarillion
Date Posted: December 27 2020 at 21:24
Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

I'd argue GG still has one of the best and relatively most consistent discographies. A fairly clean 10 year run.

They're one of those bands you can go back over their discography and still get something out of their albums, even ones you're familiar with and even if they're not one of your favourite bands. Some bands after a few listenings there's not much more you can out of them. Not Gentle Giant.


Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: December 28 2020 at 00:46
Exactly. There's magic hidden everywhere with GG, lol. Truly a timeless act! Cool

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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021


Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: February 19 2024 at 15:24
Bump...

Originally posted by Heart of the Matter Heart of the Matter wrote:

^ I love The Missing Piece. Probably the problem with it was not being able to satisfy the already established fan base, who were expecting something else.
Eager the hear the new Missing Piece mixes including surround. It's a underappreciated album.


Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: February 19 2024 at 17:09
It's a strange question because the answer it totally unlinked as to whether I like them or not. Yes of course they should have continued but I still reserve the right not to buy the albums if I so choose. 
Most of the classic prog bands struggled to put anything out after the seventies that matched their best music of that decade. I can't imagine that GG would have been any different. For instance people can go on about how much they like Rajaz but in any Camel poll it's the first 4-5 releases that sweep up the votes and Rajaz gets a few consolation votes at best. I think it's safe to say that GG wouldn't have been any different.
Nowadays I've more or less handed in my prog badge when it comes to GG having purchased pretty much everything and tried to appreciate them as much as possible. I've put in my time but there is just no Gentle Giant scratch that I need to itch. I've moved on.


Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: February 19 2024 at 20:14
My guess would be that Rajaz would get more votes than the first Camel album but not more than Mirage to MM. 

Anyway, as far as GG goes, I've moved on too but still listen to them occasionally. I don't currently own several of their albums so there's that also. There's just so much prog out there (and music in general) then I'm not that interested in listening to stuff that much that I've heard a whole lot already (which is most of the most famous prog bands). 


Posted By: Octopus II
Date Posted: February 20 2024 at 01:56
I love Gentle Giant but I think they ended at just the right time to be honest. Smile


Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: February 20 2024 at 02:16
No, ten Gentle Giant albums were more than enough for me. Tongue


Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: February 20 2024 at 02:43
Originally posted by Octopus II Octopus II wrote:

I love Gentle Giant but I think they ended at just the right time to be honest. Smile

I agree. The music landscape had become brutal for bands like GG by 1980. Neither GfaD or Civilian are as awful as they are made out to be; indeed if they had been created by a wholly new band, they'd have probably got more airplay at the time, as they were sufficiently mainstream. The problem was, there was no room for their kind of idiosyncratic creativity from then on and unless they were going to become a completely different band, carrying on would have been futile. 


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Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson


Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: February 20 2024 at 02:44
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

No, ten Gentle Giant albums were more than enough for me. Tongue

Being as they made 11, which one do you actually like? Wink


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Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson


Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: February 20 2024 at 02:46
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

My guess would be that Rajaz would get more votes than the first Camel album but not more than Mirage to MM. 

hmm that's a good question... I think their first would shade it over Rajaz for me, but then so does A Nod & A Wink...


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Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson



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