The opening sequence of tracks on Side One is amazing. And the whole thing is better live. Ever since In The Flesh was released, I’ve barely listened to the original album, preferring the live incarnation.

Seeing and hearing the album performed as a laser show at the Space Needle in Seattle was one of the highlights of my visit to the US many moons ago.

I can totally understand why a lot of people (and, for that matter, a lot of Floyd fans) don’t like it, and it does in many ways sound like it was a completely different band (a surrogate band?) playing it, compared to previous Floyd albums - but damn, it’s a good album. I love it. ❤️

A handful of good songs.

Nick Mason sleeps through most of it.

Richard Wright famously barely there.

Better than The Final Cut.

and mostly played the Numb side.

Same for Lamb Lies Down On Broadway. There’s not a single track I would wish to lose.

It’s also always the second disc that people complain of filler, I’ve noticed, on any double album. To me, this is more indicative of listener fatigue, than any real presence of filler. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Still solid music but not a go-to for me.

Yes, "flat production that is a feature most Floyd albums". Because Dark Side of the Moon is a gold standard and most emulated and revered album for flat production. 

Anyway, I think The Wall works best when David Gilmour is fully engaged, hence songs like "The Thin Ice", "Another Brick in the Wall, Part 2", "Mother", "Goodbye Blue Sky", "Young Lust, "Hey You", "Comfortably Numb" and "Run Like Hell", all of which Gilmour has writing credits, and basically the best and most memorable parts of the album.

My hero!!! 

The Wall today still hits me like it did in '79, I remember coming home from HS for weeks after it came out and doing one thing before anything, spinning The Wall (all 4 sides). It really is like a movie with ups and downs but as a complete movie its easily Best Picture caliber.

When I want to spin it I make sure I am ready to hear all 4 sides.....very rare I will only listen to 1-2 sides.

Hi,

Not sure how "cohesive" something has to be ... few novels and works fail to add something on the side, and different as a way to rest the story somewhat, but also to give it more depth at times.

Rock music, in general, has been cohesive, only in the way it sounds ... not in anything else ... heck ...next thing we're gonna say is that TFTO is cohesive and none of us can agree on any of its supposed meanings whatsoever.

FOR ME, The Wall was the continuation (or the end!) of the visual side of PF ... which in the early days of the 70's used sound effects and fun stuff within their QUADRAPHONIC sound system going around your ears in the concert hall, and it added an interesting thing to the shows ... a sense that life was going on and this is a little story from it ... I think they needed the minute or so to setup the synthesizers and the effects properly and it made sense. By DSOTM, the effects and visuals are well coordinated, but DSOTM might not be as well remembered without the most amazing, focused and centered light show ever. But it helped tell the story ... if there was one supposed to be there. The Wall, for me, is the culmination of all these visuals and how they were used before ... and I like to say that these visuals helped Roger write something more intelligently and better prepare for a show ... which of course was out of this world with all the cartoons and such.

In many ways ... the trial is important ... why? It's all the folks that hate it that this is about ... and the one person that feels attacked by it all ... and the general military-ness of the audience and folks, even within a progressive board. It makes perfect sense, and helps the story in The Wall really well ... the kid, alone, against the world and the masses!

In my book ... the artist against the masses and the world for new ideas and thoughts and music!

This all makes The Wall much more important and valuable, not only as a live show (my review here compares the later Wall show to the original show) ... still great ... but it's message now is diluted to just a few songs ... how sad!

I got into Floyd long before I properly got into any of the other prog greats.  As a result, I had listened to The Wall over and over, digested the concept and also watched the movie by the time I got around to listening to full prog albums of Yes or Genesis.  

So...when I contrasted Lamb Lies Down On Broadway with Wall, I felt the latter was a little underwhelming.  Musically more so than lyrically.  It felt like the Brick In The Wall motif was repeated a zillion times. And The Trial...don't get me started on The Trial!

I also found that there were some similarities between the concept of Wall and that of Crime Of The Century but, again, liked the music of the latter more, especially Rudy, Asylum, the title track. 

I am afraid Nick Mason had become a massive liability for Floyd as rock evolved into a harder-edged direction and even subbing him with sessions hands wasn't enough to cover this up.  Rick Wright too was a passenger on this album.  It's not particularly clear to me that this was entirely Waters' doing but that's another day, another debate.  As Dark Elf said, the best songs are the ones where Gilmour is pulling all his weight and without him, the album would probably fall flat. 

And THEN, 2016 happened (actually, 2014 for me).  The rise of neo-fascism all over again made me see songs like In The Flesh reprise in a new light.  The videos of both that song and Waiting For The Worms make for chilling viewing. Suddenly, Waters' fable of a lonely guy who cannot find love turning into a Nazi fiend didn't seem so far fetched after all.  

I still cannot listen to the album in entirety anymore and prefer to pick my favourite moments from it.  But as a concept, the Wall still stands tall.  As a standalone Waters achievement, it's his most towering (though, as band efforts, I prefer DSOTM and Meddle).

I've never been impressed by Floyd in terms of production, so don't care for the 'my ears are lying' tripe by people who clearly have very little idea but like to pretend otherwise. The whole 'thought police' thing on this forum is very wearing at times. I know what I hear. You of course are allowed to have an opinion but pretending you know what you are talking about is a whole other thing. As for Dark Side of The Moon being the 'gold standard' is a complete joke. What is this FM Radio or something? The most ridiculously over hyped album in terms of production there has ever been. Everything Alan Parsons has ever touched is so bland sounding. Quite strange really. 

But that sounds more like a music issue than a production issue.  I mean AP WAS associated with super bland adult contemp rock kinda stuff. Just listen to Nick Mason on Live at Pompeii.  There's nothing much a producer can do about that drum sound.  

The elephant in the room is why do even top notch drummers feel so compelled to rationalize or contextualize Mason?  Sure he was a creative force but his chops are hardly much to crow about.  Ergo, the dynamics you miss are really lacking in his playing itself, not the production.  And there isn't much room for the others to get dynamic when the drummer isn't.  

For that matter, based on Gilmour's long career (and I say this with the greatest respect), I don't think he can deliver Hackett like dynamics for you.  That's not his speciality.  Those albums kinda sound bland because the playing IS bland.  It's more 'classic rock' playing than prog rock playing.  Nobody wants to talk about this but it doesn't make it not true.  Floyd were the Beatles of the 70s.  They were great at putting together amazing albums, less so at playing brilliantly on those albums.

I think it's a bit of both.  I read in a recent Classic Rock interview that Mason could not play the time sig of Mother and a session hand played on the recording.  NOW you have to say it is difficult to imagine any of Bruford/Collins/Palmer/Weathers having any difficulty playing that song. And while it may not have been necessary for him to play balls out most of the time, I think the ability to produce lots of variations in your drumming is also correlated to a reasonable amount of virtuosity and the exceptions only prove the rule. They are both related to the amount of control a drummer has over his instrument.

There can't be too many drummers who could only play the most basic patterns but somehow had the most awesome dynamic range. I don't think Mason falls into that basket at any rate. 

Hi

I wonder if this is unfair ... for the time and place that it came out, it was the cleanest and best thing in recording ... that only George Martin and Tom Dowd could come close to ... but unlike the others, Allan's ability was the clarity of each instrument ... and yeah, I suppose that makes things a bit bland, but you are hearing something that most musicians would love to hear themselves ... a nice clear sound all around ... and in some ways, this made for a bit more simplicity in the whole thing and likely better equipment behind it all ... instead of just the studio "making the band" ... like George did and Tom did, specially with "Layla" ... and how it was discovered ... see his special for details ... it was not exactly an accident, but more of a person's attention to their work as they rehearsed ... once recorded, it becomes easy for them to learn what they did!

Allan, in some ways made things sound cleaner ... a lot more than before ... and I'm OK with that, and for the history of "recording" it was really good ... 

My only concern is us comparing a recording done in 1972/1973 to something that is done in 2021 inside a nice clean digital setup, which makes things easier, not not necessarily better ... bland as heck, since I doubt that as many musicians have the knowledge and ability to use effects so cleanly and well.

Saying a recording from yesterday was crap ... is bad ... it was the best there was at the time ... just like folks here can't relate to the RED SEAL recordings of a few records in the late 1960's ... which were beautifully done ... but today we have no idea what that meant for the business of recording ... essentially, Allan Parsons did the same thing ... and made sure it was clean and clear ... which is what made the RED SEAL albums famous, specially for people with high end stereo systems, where you could hear the clarity.

DSOTM sounds bland, on mp3 ... PERIOD. But get a good stereo, with very good speakers, and a nice stylus for the turntable (cost of all three past 2K on all these) ... and the difference is MASSIVE ... and I don't think you know about it ... because if you did, I doubt you would have made that comment about bland ... but many other things by Allan did not sound "bland" ... they cleaned up and made the artist sound a lot better than before!

PF's earlier recordings were muddled and not clean by comparison, sort of like a microphone hanging from the ceiling picking it all up ... and hoping that SW can clean these up 45 years later. SW's work is not better than what Allan did, or Tom, or George. He just thinks it is, and because he talks good game, everyone thinks he is better.

From what I remember of that article, Mason himself said he could no longer play that stuff by then.  That was shocking.  But maybe not so shocking considering the arsenal of musicians Gilmour seemed to have to employ for the Delicate Sound of Thunder/Pulse shows. Multiple keyboardists, multiple drummers...while he continued to sing and play guitar just the same. 

Never heard DSOTM...or any prog album...on vinyl but I have the 30th anniversary remaster and listening to the opening bars of Breathe on a good speaker system with proper separation is an experience to behold. Not many recordings sound like that.  

Hi,

Even more important, was the fact that the ENGLISH original pressing was pristine clear and the AMERICAN recording was taken from a trash can from a Hollywood party tape! The difference is astronomical, and the "remaster" only makes it closer to the ENGLISH pressing of the album, which was very clean, and not muddled.

The same thing happened to Sgt. Pepper's where the original ENGLISH pressing was vastly superior with all the background stuff shining like crazy which was all muddled for the AMERICAN pressing. An absolute travesty if you ask me.

Some records, whether one likes them or not ... deserve a good listen ... the problem is, that I think that less that 5% (maybe 10%) of the folks here on PA have never even had a strong stereo system with outstanding equipment, with which they could have heard something ... and let me tell you that some of those RED SEAL albums, the classical music was phenomenal ... it gave you an understanding and an appreciation for the compositions that was unreal ... true music from the spheres (so to speak) and absolutely stunning! If you thought you needed Kubrick to show it to you, then you didn't know what you were missing sonically!

Nowadays, we have nothing like that ... and SW thinks his recordings are good and the ones he does for others better, and they aren't. They are mere manipulations and a little cleaning along the way but kinda "switching" the positions of the instruments with each other on KC does not make it better ... for me it made it stupid and worse! The charm got replaced with some plastic! And unfortunately that is just about all the folks know these days ... and speaking about those recordings 50 years ago, is really difficult because they never got to hear anything like it! Not to mention that the LP's being made today are bad and do not even come close or stand up to the original!

Hearing Dark Side what maybe 45yrs ago for the first time on my Montgomery Wards all in one stereo with small krappy speakers (of course back then I thought it was the shat!!) I was floored by the production of sound and the whole experience. 

Today, hearing it on what I have now its not even fair to compare....the system brings me walls of sound off the record, it's utterly crazy what Alan Parsons did back in the 72/73 at Abbey Road studios.....Even if you think the music is bland, the production of the record, the engineering is brilliant. And what Alan Parsons has received in accolades is well deserved, the music industry acknowledges what that record has done for the past 45+yrs.

If one does not like the music, that's fine although I could not imagine how or why?? Rogerthat is spot on, not many recordings sound like that, especially ones that are 45+ yrs old. It will remain as one of the top choices for people to play to "show off" their system, analog or digital.

I would suggest the only one in this conversation who has no idea what they are talking about is you. Clearly clueless. I am not even going to waste my time explaining why you are clueless about production techniques or studio production in a historical context because it would be a waste of time.

Hi,

Just so you know, in LA the FM signals from KMET and KLOS (the two biggies at the time) was pristine and really clean, and in fact there was a lot of issues when one asked why a record sounded so good then, and the album was not as good.

There are various thoughts, on that, but I think the original FM signal was actually two signals combined, and it created an atmosphere that was very different due to the air waves of transmission by the FM signal ... I don't think it is a dual signal anymore but I lost track of that information a long time ago.

It is POSSIBLE (and somewhat likely) that the signal was thought to be dual because of the cheesiness and crappiness of the AM signal which was really poor anywhere you went unless you were looking for Wolfman Jack, and even then the only thing that was insane was the power of that signal he was on! None of the stations here in Portland, for example, are even half as good as those early ones, and that would even include KTYD where Guy Guden did his show, and I have quite a few shows from 1974, and the quality of the stereo EVEN THEN is excellent, and I recorded most of these on a Maxell, or TDK 120 cassettes on an UHER deck and later on a Pioneer deck.

I have always thought the quality through a station was superior to the records, and I had the system to show it ... but the best we could do was get the albums. There might be some secrets here, as one of the engineers that worked in Santa Barbara on that station happened to do part time work also for KMET and went on to put together a show of jazz music that ran for many years. Joe Collins was his name. Another famous one is on that pay thing ... Jim Ladd ... the weird thing being that he had a huge hand in a lot of our favorite top 5 and he has said nothing about it all these years! 

Hi,

Sadly, if you were there ... it was NOT mainstream ... it was completely different and for once, people were playing on the FM dial the whole of side one of the album ... 

You can't get that attention today, and appreciation ... but the lack of understanding of the history of the time and place ... makes a difference ... of course one might like AMLOR ... it is much more "modern" and more suited to today's audience than the conceptual nature of the SHOW (I don't think the album on its own is strong enough concept of anything except ideas!) ... which helped make it very famous!

But I can see why 2020 fan would say something like that ... sadly, the effect of how the music grew, just like the Beatles and Rolling Stones, or even Miles and many others that deserve to be studied and appreciated, has been lost because all folks can think about is "hit songs" and "pop songs" ... and that history is non-existent except for a top ten that continues on in classic rock ... complete with a cut up version of "Money" just to show you the hippocrisy!

Your information is incorrect. Gilmour has writing credits on all the songs I mentioned. Refer to Wiki for further info.

And as a millennial, I have seen the We Don't Need No Education video a bunch of times on VH1. It's an anthem like We Will Rock You. In fact, though DSOTM sold more copies, no single track on that album has the notoriety of ABITW pt2. 

Rare we disagree, but I have just pulled out my old vinyl copy, and the only joint writing credits are (with Gilmour) Young Lust, Comfortably Numb, and Run Like Hell, and (with Ezrin) The Trial.

I think the confusion comes from misreading the Wikipedia page?  The Wiki page actually shows that Dellinger and Lazland are correct about writing credits, and The Dark Elf  is getting confused by who is listed as providing lead vocals..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wall#Track_listing" rel="nofollow - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wall#Track_listing

You and Dellinger are correct. My mistake. Vocals shared on those several songs, not writing credits. 

Actually, you do raise an interesting sort of general query or point, when you make reference to Gilmour having to have had some input on the guitar solo of Brick Part Two. I agree. It has Gilmour written all over it, yet he didn’t get a credit.

Earlier today, whilst working, I put on Asia Alpha as a bit of background. The Last to Know is one of my favourite Asia tracks, and one of the reasons for that is a lovely Steve Howe lick in between Wetton’s vocals in the chorus. I can’t imagine for the life of me Wetton and Downes, who have the writing credit, telling Howe to play that particular piece in that particular way. I can imagine Howe telling the pair of them to piss off if they did. However, he doesn’t have a credit.

There are probably many other examples. What defines who gets what credits on a song? The only thing I can think of are band politics in many instances.

are you sure what you wrote there makes any sense? 

I’m presuming he’s meaning the Roger Water album of The Wall live in Berlin? 🤷🏻‍♂️

The only digestable song off this wimpy album is Comfortably Numb. Nuff said !!!

 Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh where are you Syd!!!!!

digestible? why, are you eating it? 

thank you Captain Obvious, you've saved us all. 

I was only joking, it's even funnier that you got annoyed with what I said (which I did not think it was possible, but anyway). 

Wow !!! so now we have a guilty conscience, don't we ??!!

I find eggs digestible, but only in certain forms.

I do not like green eggs, though - ham or not.

Cristi vs Triptych is looking like it could be the new Cristi vs Paul.

Paul more or less rhymes with Wall, which is eggs in a form I enjoy. I find it easily digestible, and so good that I often come back for seconds. You can’t have any pudding I’d you don’t eat your meat, but honestly Wall is meaty enough to fill me up, without needing any pudding. 👍🏻

God no... 

Have I got the reputation of the one that argues all the time? 

I guess the nonsense some users go into here bothers me more than others. 

Exactly! I meant Roger Waters' The Wall: Live in Berlin album, so what I said makes perfect sense, which makes a nice change. 

awful live album, I agree with the overall rating it's got here on PA. 

It appears Roger Waters' Live in Berlin album has come up against The Wall of indifference from you.  

 

Not surprisingly, I disagree. It's a brilliant Live album with a well-deserved 5-star rating from me.

The Wall as a whole is of little worth musically speaking, esp if we compare it to other more SERIOUS Floyd albums. Most people have played the record sales card when arguing about The Wall ! Frankly, I don't care if an album has sold millions of copies around the world....it just means that there are people who like to throw their hard-earned money out the window and not that there are people who really like and appreciate REAL music. But that's all fine with me. All I can say to round up this post is that Syd wouldn't have liked The Wall one single bit :)

Again, no-one asked your opinion EGGHEAD 

Really? The one that has the reputation of the one that argues all the time? I hadn't noticed 

2.25 rating here on PA, so yeah, I agree. 

as long as you spew nonsense, I am gonna argue and disagree. 

The only track on the album I like is the wonderful Comfortably Numb.

The rest is utter bilge, especially the cringeworthy Another Brick in the Wall part 2 (despite Gilmour's attempt to rescue it with a lovely guitar solo).

I've seen Floyd three times. The first was the In The Flesh Tour 1977 at Cleveland Municipal Stadium. It's still one of the greatest concerts I've ever seen (and I've seen hundreds). I think anyone who was there would agree. So, I have no idea what you are talking about.

I share the thoughts about Nick Mason being asleep through it though, but I think he's asleep for all their work.

Thanks, that was an interesting watch.  But what I get from that is not that the album Animals itself precipitated the issues, but that they had become too big of a band for the kind of music they made. They took their music very seriously but neither the promoters nor the fans seemed to and that made them disillusioned.  Beatles retreated permanently to the studio when it became impossible to play live.  But for Floyd, that was understandably not an option.