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Marillion's Brave: A Classic or Overblown Mess?

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Topic: Marillion's Brave: A Classic or Overblown Mess?
Posted By: SteveG
Subject: Marillion's Brave: A Classic or Overblown Mess?
Date Posted: January 26 2021 at 15:01
There's many pro and con opinions. Please state yours and why.

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Replies:
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: January 26 2021 at 15:02
overblown? how? 


Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: January 26 2021 at 15:43
It goes on a bit without any memorable bits. Mind you I haven't heard it an age though. I saw the very first gig of the accompanying tour back in the 90's and it just left me wondering 'why?'. Give me Seasons End any day. Will be interesting to find out why people rate it so much. 


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: January 26 2021 at 15:48
I love the fact that it's a deliberate effort to make a prog concept album that's mostly successful musically in a time when no one, including their record label, wanted one. My only beef if the strange EQing with pronounced mid bass frequencies in the album master, but I never heard the Wilson remix so maybe it sounds better in that edition.

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Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: January 26 2021 at 16:16
Easily a Classic, not sure why anyone would regard it an Overblown Mess. DT's The Astonishing is a massive Overblown Mess LOL.

Brave speaks for itself. I have the original CD, I don't recall in the 90's a US issue of the LP version, I do have the 2013 EMI reissue on LP which was cut from original master tapes and is a glorious version, dynamics are off the charts with gut punching deep bass. 
I have not heard the SW remix, but it seems a mix bag as most agree it's excellent yet some don't like that most probably the LPs were cut from a digital file since he also did a 5.1 mix.

It remains one of my best sounding records.


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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: January 26 2021 at 16:22
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Easily a Classic, not sure why anyone would regard it an Overblown Mess. DT's The Astonishing is a massive Overblown Mess LOL.

Brave speaks for itself. I have the original CD, I don't recall in the 90's a US issue of the LP version, I do have the 2013 EMI reissue on LP which was cut from original master tapes and is a glorious version, dynamics are off the charts with gut punching deep bass. 
I have not heard the SW remix, but it seems a mix bag as most agree it's excellent yet some don't like that most probably the LPs were cut from a digital file since he also did a 5.1 mix.

It remains one of my best sounding records.
yeah I have a 2cd deluxe edition that sounds good but not great. An early 2000s reissue.

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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: January 26 2021 at 16:28
Make that 1998. Just 4 years after the original release. 24 bit remastered at Abbey Road. Time for an upgrade.

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Posted By: Prog-jester
Date Posted: January 27 2021 at 12:44
I don't get why both Brave and Marbles are so universally loved, both very dull and boring to me, both could've been decent 40-45 mins long LPs. But what do I know, I love Somewhere Else and Anoraknophobia


Posted By: Prog-jester
Date Posted: January 27 2021 at 12:52
Originally posted by Prog-jester Prog-jester wrote:

both could've been decent 40-45 mins long LPs
yeah, I know, concepts and all, but look:

"Living with the Big Lie" – 6:46
"Runaway" - 4:40
"Goodbye to All That" – 12:26
"Alone Again in the Lap of Luxury" – 8:13
"Brave" – 7:54
"The Great Escape" – 6:29

&

"The Invisible Man" – 13:37
"Fantastic Place" – 6:12
"The Damage" – 4:35
"Angelina" – 7:42
"Drilling Holes" – 5:11
"Neverland" – 12:10
bonus: "Ocean Cloud" – 17:58


Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: January 27 2021 at 12:52
Originally posted by Prog-jester Prog-jester wrote:

I don't get why both Brave and Marbles are so universally loved, both very dull and boring to me, both could've been decent 40-45 mins long LPs. But what do I know, I love Somewhere Else and Anoraknophobia

they are not universally loved, here on PA Marillion's Hogarth era is rather unpopular, so I don't know where you got this idea from. 

Dull and boring? That's your opinion, don't try to pass it as fact. 

Brave around 40 minutes? So what songs do we take out? Evil Smile
Marbles 45 minutes? The epics make that time alone. Can we keep those? They're essential listening if you ask me. 




Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: January 27 2021 at 13:09
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Prog-jester Prog-jester wrote:

I don't get why both Brave and Marbles are so universally loved, both very dull and boring to me, both could've been decent 40-45 mins long LPs. But what do I know, I love Somewhere Else and Anoraknophobia


they are not universally loved, here on PA Marillion's Hogarth era is rather unpopular, so I don't know where you got this idea from. 

Dull and boring? That's your opinion, don't try to pass it as fact. 

Brave around 40 minutes? So what songs do we take out? Evil Smile
Marbles 45 minutes? The epics make that time alone. Can we keep those? They're essential listening if you ask me. 


     

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Posted By: geekfreak
Date Posted: January 27 2021 at 13:19
Not a great fan of Brave, there’s a few amazing songs. But I haven’t listened to it in ages!

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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: January 27 2021 at 13:24
Originally posted by Prog-jester Prog-jester wrote:

Originally posted by Prog-jester Prog-jester wrote:

both could've been decent 40-45 mins long LPs
yeah, I know, concepts and all, but look:

"Living with the Big Lie" – 6:46
"Runaway" - 4:40
"Goodbye to All That" – 12:26
"Alone Again in the Lap of Luxury" – 8:13
"Brave" – 7:54
"The Great Escape" – 6:29

&

"The Invisible Man" – 13:37
"Fantastic Place" – 6:12
"The Damage" – 4:35
"Angelina" – 7:42
"Drilling Holes" – 5:11
"Neverland" – 12:10
bonus: "Ocean Cloud" – 17:58
Wtf? It's prog rock for Christ sake.

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Posted By: Prog-jester
Date Posted: January 27 2021 at 13:47
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Dull and boring? That's your opinion, don't try to pass it as fact
Originally posted by Prog-jester Prog-jester wrote:

both very dull and boring to me

Originally posted by Prog-jester Prog-jester wrote:

to me


Posted By: Prog-jester
Date Posted: January 27 2021 at 13:48
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

It's prog rock for Christ sake.
...so it MUST be dull and boring then?

or you never heard of albums like TAAB (one song, 40 mins)?


Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: January 27 2021 at 13:50
I wouldn't call it an overblown mess, but it's definitely overrated. 

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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: January 27 2021 at 13:53
Originally posted by Prog-jester Prog-jester wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

It's prog rock for Christ sake.
...so it MUST be dull and boring then?

or you never heard of albums like TAAB (one song, 40 mins)?
look, you would think a song on Brave was dull and boring if it was 20 seconds long. What's length got to do with it?

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Posted By: Prog-jester
Date Posted: January 27 2021 at 13:57
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

look, you would think a song on Brave was dull and boring if it was 20 seconds long
not true, my friend The shorter variant I posted is pretty much perfect to me, 9/10 I'd say?..

The real actual album as it is - probably 5/10, too slow, too uneven, too many filler tracks


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: January 27 2021 at 14:00
Originally posted by Prog-jester Prog-jester wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

look, you would think a song on Brave was dull and boring if it was 20 seconds long
not true, my friend The shorter variant I posted is pretty much perfect to me, 9/10 I'd say?..

The real actual album as it is - probably 5/10, too slow, too uneven, too many filler tracks
we get it. You don't like Brave. The gods have spoken.

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Posted By: Prog-jester
Date Posted: January 27 2021 at 14:13
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

we get it
who's "we", lol
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

You don't like Brave
nah, looks you don't get it. I like SOME of Brave, as you may see above


Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: January 27 2021 at 20:50
Well, after a while seeing how well rated it is, along with Marbles, I finally goth them both... sort of. I got a few live albums that included both albums in their whole. I was actually disappointed... I don't remember that much, but there wasn't so much to enjoy from them. I think Neverland comes Marbles... now, that song I do love.


Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: January 27 2021 at 23:39
Of all the crazy stuff I've delved into, I've still yet to do so with Marillion.

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Posted By: Awesoreno
Date Posted: January 28 2021 at 01:48
Originally posted by Prog-jester Prog-jester wrote:

Originally posted by Prog-jester Prog-jester wrote:

both could've been decent 40-45 mins long LPs
yeah, I know, concepts and all, but look:

"Living with the Big Lie" – 6:46
"Runaway" - 4:40
"Goodbye to All That" – 12:26
"Alone Again in the Lap of Luxury" – 8:13
"Brave" – 7:54
"The Great Escape" – 6:29

&

"The Invisible Man" – 13:37
"Fantastic Place" – 6:12
"The Damage" – 4:35
"Angelina" – 7:42
"Drilling Holes" – 5:11
"Neverland" – 12:10
bonus: "Ocean Cloud" – 17:58

I could hear it. But Brave would be missing Made Again, so it would still be incomplete.


Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: January 28 2021 at 02:44
Brave is one of the best Marillion albums. Marbles is elevator music.


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Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: January 28 2021 at 02:54
Originally posted by someone_else someone_else wrote:

Marbles is elevator music.

must be some very cool elevators you've been in, Marbles is playing there... 


Posted By: Ronstein
Date Posted: January 28 2021 at 03:22
Marilliion just aren't for me. Their music sounds like 'prog by numbers' to my ears.


Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: January 28 2021 at 03:29
Originally posted by Ronstein Ronstein wrote:

Marilliion just aren't for me. Their music sounds like 'prog by numbers' to my ears.

I keep seeing the expression "prog by numbers", I don't know what it means exactly, just that is used negatively. 


Posted By: Ronstein
Date Posted: January 28 2021 at 03:45
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Ronstein Ronstein wrote:

Marilliion just aren't for me. Their music sounds like 'prog by numbers' to my ears.

I keep seeing the expression "prog by numbers", I don't know what it means exactly, just that is used negatively. 

It comes from the 'painting by numbers' books that used to be around (and probably still are). It implies creating by formula (or recipe, if that makes more sense) rather than chucking a load of ingredients in and seeing what happens, then picking out the best.

https://lovebyletterbox.co.uk/products/personalised-paint-by-numbers-canvas?currency=GBP&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&utm_campaign=gs-2020-07-17&utm_source=google&utm_medium=smart_campaign&gclid=Cj0KCQiA3smABhCjARIsAKtrg6Jp0RmvFhLDbZELK26ye12O9c-tiXtefcAxkq9p3lziaU1jxgZQXjsaAs1kEALw_wcB&variant=32776602386514




Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: January 28 2021 at 03:47
Originally posted by Ronstein Ronstein wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Ronstein Ronstein wrote:

Marilliion just aren't for me. Their music sounds like 'prog by numbers' to my ears.

I keep seeing the expression "prog by numbers", I don't know what it means exactly, just that is used negatively. 

It comes from the 'painting by numbers' books that used to be around (and probably still are). It implies creating by formula (or recipe, if that makes more sense) rather than chucking a load of ingredients in and seeing what happens, then picking out the best.

https://lovebyletterbox.co.uk/products/personalised-paint-by-numbers-canvas?currency=GBP&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&utm_campaign=gs-2020-07-17&utm_source=google&utm_medium=smart_campaign&gclid=Cj0KCQiA3smABhCjARIsAKtrg6Jp0RmvFhLDbZELK26ye12O9c-tiXtefcAxkq9p3lziaU1jxgZQXjsaAs1kEALw_wcB&variant=32776602386514



well then, it's a worse insult than I thought and i disagree. 


Posted By: Ronstein
Date Posted: January 28 2021 at 03:52
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:


well then, it's a worse insult than I thought and i disagree. 

It's not an insult, and it's just my opinion. Plenty of bands, especially the more commercially driven ones (and those forced to by record companies or circumstances) set out to create music for a specific market. Not everyone has the inspiration or the freedom to create whatever they want.


Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: January 28 2021 at 03:56
I'm not a fan of Marillion with Hogarth; I detest his singing


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Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: January 28 2021 at 03:58
Originally posted by Ronstein Ronstein wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:


well then, it's a worse insult than I thought and i disagree. 

It's not an insult, and it's just my opinion. Plenty of bands, especially the more commercially driven ones (and those forced to by record companies or circumstances) set out to create music for a specific market. Not everyone has the inspiration or the freedom to create whatever they want.

how are Marillion commercial? 
Specific market? What's Marillion's market? They have some of the most loyal fans, and that's about it. 

They have their own label, they went away from EMI who tried to control them and have their own small label. So yeah, they've been doing whatever they wanted since being on their own. 


Posted By: Prog-jester
Date Posted: January 28 2021 at 05:09
^true that
Originally posted by Ronstein Ronstein wrote:

Their music sounds like 'prog by numbers' to my ears
lol, that's probably because literally hundreds of bands followed their sound. It's like disliking The Beatles because you heard Oasis first


Posted By: Ronstein
Date Posted: January 28 2021 at 05:15
Originally posted by Prog-jester Prog-jester wrote:

^true that
Originally posted by Ronstein Ronstein wrote:

Their music sounds like 'prog by numbers' to my ears
lol, that's probably because literally hundreds of bands followed their sound. It's like disliking The Beatles because you heard Oasis first

Nope, I'm an oldie, I heard it all in date order Wink


Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: January 28 2021 at 06:10
I think Brave is a classic. Unlike a lot of other concept albums, I don't think it comes anywhere near close to being overblown. From the Hogarth era, I still think Afraid of Sunlight is their best album and I'm sure I'm a minority opinion on that. 

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that's a happy bag of lettuce
this car smells like cartilage
nothing beats a good video about fractions


Posted By: Chaser
Date Posted: January 28 2021 at 06:22
Not a classic, but "overblown mess" might be a bit strong. It's okay and it has its moments, but it doesn't come close to Misplaced Childhood or Clutching at Straws.

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Songs cast a light on you


Posted By: suitkees
Date Posted: January 28 2021 at 10:49
Originally posted by someone_else someone_else wrote:

Brave is one of the best Marillion albums. Marbles is elevator music.

Well, if you want to put it in these terms I think both are elevator music. I never understood the hype around Brave (or Marbles), because I too think it's a bit dull, too gently meandering music. I prefer Afraid of Sunlight or Marillion.com over these (maybe less prog, but more to my liking...). They did some other good albums afterwards, but none really excelled, to my ears, regarding previous work.


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The razamataz is a pain in the bum


Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: January 28 2021 at 10:54
Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

Originally posted by someone_else someone_else wrote:

Brave is one of the best Marillion albums. Marbles is elevator music.

Well, if you want to put it in these terms I think both are elevator music. I never understood the hype around Brave (or Marbles), because I too think it's a bit dull, too gently meandering music. I prefer Afraid of Sunlight or Marillion.com over these (maybe less prog, but more to my liking...). They did some other good albums afterwards, but none really excelled, to my ears, regarding previous work.

what hype? Where? I wanna see it. I'd be happy to see people talking positively about Marillion for once. 

I don't think there is a worse insult for someone's music than calling it "elevator music". 


Posted By: suitkees
Date Posted: January 28 2021 at 11:01
About prog by numbers...
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Ronstein Ronstein wrote:

It's not an insult, and it's just my opinion. Plenty of bands, especially the more commercially driven ones (and those forced to by record companies or circumstances) set out to create music for a specific market. Not everyone has the inspiration or the freedom to create whatever they want.

how are Marillion commercial? 
Specific market? What's Marillion's market? They have some of the most loyal fans, and that's about it. 

They have their own label, they went away from EMI who tried to control them and have their own small label. So yeah, they've been doing whatever they wanted since being on their own. 

I agree with Cristi here. Marillion has never been about "prog by numbers". They have always gone their own way and generated a diverse fan-base. Some prefer Fish-era, others Hogarth-era, some (like me) like both, but not necessarily everything they produce.
The formulaic prog-approach, I hear it in many modern prog bands, but Marillion really have their own distinctive style and sound, also thanks to some very recognizable musicians and singer (which could be at the same time my critique on the band that they didn't sufficiently evolve over time, but that's another discussion...).


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The razamataz is a pain in the bum


Posted By: suitkees
Date Posted: January 28 2021 at 11:07
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

Originally posted by someone_else someone_else wrote:

Brave is one of the best Marillion albums. Marbles is elevator music.

Well, if you want to put it in these terms I think both are elevator music. I never understood the hype around Brave (or Marbles), because I too think it's a bit dull, too gently meandering music. I prefer Afraid of Sunlight or Marillion.com over these (maybe less prog, but more to my liking...). They did some other good albums afterwards, but none really excelled, to my ears, regarding previous work.

what hype? Where? I wanna see it. I'd be happy to see people talking positively about Marillion for once. 

I don't think there is a worse insult for someone's music than calling it "elevator music". 

When Marbles came out, it was considered by many (and I remember the reviews on DPRP, especially) as a masterpiece. That raises expectations, which,, in my case were not fulfilled with this album.

BTW, there is some very good elevator music out there, but regarding Marillion I was expecting (and hoping for) something more energetic and diverse within one and the same album. In that sense, and for me, I think neither Brave nor Marbles are delivering that.


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The razamataz is a pain in the bum


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: January 28 2021 at 11:18
Calling Brave or Marbles elevator music is uncalled for and is the type of post seen on pop music forums where the uncooth argue over Lorde and Billy Eilish. It's sad to see that type of babyish behavior here.




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Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: January 28 2021 at 11:20
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Calling Brave or Marbles elevator music is uncalled for and is the type of post seen on pop music forums where the uncooth argue over Lorde and Billy Eilish. It's sad to see that type of babyish behavior here.



They used to hang men for less than that!


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Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: January 28 2021 at 11:25
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Calling Brave or Marbles elevator music is uncalled for and is the type of post seen on pop music forums where the uncooth argue over Lorde and Billy Eilish. It's sad to see that type of babyish behavior here.

Even though I'm not a big fan I agree with you. It's not 'elevator music'.
I have the first 3 with Fish...Sunlight with Hogarth and a 2 cd anthology..but I don't really play any of them.
I listened to Brave recently and have heard many of the others before. They are too laid back for me...but I can see why many prog fans here like them.


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Haquin


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: January 28 2021 at 11:28
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Calling Brave or Marbles elevator music is uncalled for and is the type of post seen on pop music forums where the uncooth argue over Lorde and Billy Eilish. It's sad to see that type of babyish behavior here.




They used to hang men for less than that!
Yes, we older types do long for the past at times.

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Posted By: suitkees
Date Posted: January 28 2021 at 11:35
To be clear to some of you: I wouldn't consider it elevator music either, but the term was brought up... And we can all stumble over that notion and not understand what is meant (as happens a lot on forums). What some would label "too laid back" (which is what I think of Brave and Marbles) others call that "elevator music". If some feel insulted, that is then more on their account than on that of the sender. No need to become patronizing when we talk about musical preferences and opinions.


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The razamataz is a pain in the bum


Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: January 28 2021 at 11:39
I have seen lots of positivity for Marillion, including in this thread. I think that conversations often tend to focus on the negative because people often have a tendency to respond to negativity (often with their negative opinions about the others negativity) more than positivity. One often gets more "I disagree with your assessment" or "You're wrong" type posts, than "I really like what you said, agree with you, and would like to delve into and expand on that."

I love lots of muzaky, elevator-type music. If others think of such music as bad, well, what matters to me is that I like it. Vive la difference, different tastes and all that. I like a lot of down-tempo loungey music and exotica which others have called elevator music. Some of it is quite kistch.

As for the album Brave, which I have heard in full but not in years. While I did find it overlong, and its just not altogether music in my wheelhouse (I appreciate more alternative rock type music now), I respected the effort and did find value in it (I often like dark and depressing and quite ambient music). I checked it out because I saw it getting lots of acclaim and recognition. At rateyourmusic it is one the highest rated Marillion albums. At PA, it has a 3.97 rating with 1087 ratings which is a good showing. Various Fish albums do better here, but that is the second highest rated Hogarth album, after Marbles.

To increase the positivity, here is an excerpt from a review by Romdrum:

"This album has been my personal number one album for 15 years now. It shows no signs of ever losing its spot. Brave had a huge impact on me from the moment I bought it, and I was absolutely amazed that they did this album after Holidays in Eden. A greater contrast could not have been achieved. If Holidays was a surface dwelling, shiny pop product, then Brave is its polar opposite. It’s dark, dank, damp, seedy, and mysterious. To paraphrase The Damage, Holidays in Eden was what was in the window, and Brave is the low down deep down primal truth."

Oh, as for the Prog-by-numbers things (which as said refers to paint-by-numbers), I have used the term a number of times. I called Magma's K.A. Prog-by-numbers, and also Magma-by-numbers. I like the album but I felt that it was rather catering to a Prog audience. I called Comus' Out of the Coma, Comus-by-numbers, and also felt it was doing some First Utterance Prog Folk fan service rather than trying something new. I still enjoyed it very much, and there's nothing really wrong with that. I wouldn't expect otherwise (reaching back on an old creative well because there has been interest in your past work). Lots of people say with bands, I wish they'd go back and make something like they used to. I wouldn't have thought of Brave or Marillion generally as Prog-by-numbers (on some Marillion tracks I could say so). Influence is one thing, being derivative is another, but I'm no expert. David Bowie's final album drew more on past eras than a lot of his stuff, and I loved that (he's been known to re-invent himself, but this felt like he was tying together his history together for a final show while also trying new things), but I digress.

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Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me.


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: January 28 2021 at 11:51
Once again Greg, we diverge. We all can't like the same music, that's a given. I posted this thread to give equal input by both camps However, a post for the sake of being inflammatory goes beyond. Very rarely do members use decriptives like "elevator music" or "musak" when describing prog rock, for good reason. It's known to be crossing the line. If the poster had honorable intent, let him say so and an apology from me would be forthcoming. But please don't defend the person until we reach that point.

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Posted By: suitkees
Date Posted: January 28 2021 at 12:12
"Overblown mess" seems more insulting to me than "elevator music"... I mean, your thread question is inciting polarization. If you don't accept negative reactions then don't ask for it.


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The razamataz is a pain in the bum


Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: January 28 2021 at 12:19
Steve, heck, my opinions often diverge with other opinions that I hold -- depends upon what angle I come from. I don't like to be very contrarian.

I'm not defending anyone, but merely am interested in looking at ideas from a variety of perspectives, and trying for a balanced approach. I once suggested a band to PA (for JRF) that was called elevator music, and didn't mind exploring that a bit and recognising those qualities. I did not take it as insulting. That person knows that I tend to like kinds of smoother loungey music, and things that tend towards yacht rock.

Elevator music is not what I would have thought listening to Brave, and hopefully the poster will go into more details. Clearly it is meant to be disparaging, but I wouldn't be insulted by it, particularly because I don't agree with it, maybe I would be if I were Marillion though. The insults that land hardest are ones which hold uncomfortable truths. EDIT: mea culpa, I was careless and misremembered. The comment was the Brave is excellent music and Marbles is elevator music. I haven't heard Marbles so I can't comment on that. I don't see it as terribly harsh especially since it's comparing two and being very positive about one (expect contrasts to be presented more precipitously for effect as well).

By the way, multitasking so I hadn't read your response to the elevator comment (was still just focusing on the last page of the thread).

I often don't like to see disparaging remarks -- especially negative claims presented without justification. It does concern me sometimes when people come into such threads, even ones like this which are not appreciation threads per se (you set this up in a dichotomous manner), but seem to just want to bash the music rather than have an open-minded conversation. Some people I think can come across as way too harsh, which can be disrespectful not only to the musicians but to the fans. Just because I despise something, for instance, doesn't mean that I will go out of my way to announce that fact. I do prefer more nuanced and balanced views. It's often not a good approach to conversation, and will only appeal to a tribe of haters.

And yeah, as said, this was set up in a way that would invite polarised views.



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Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me.


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: January 28 2021 at 12:22
Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

"Overblown mess" seems more insulting to me than "elevator music"... I mean, your thread question is inciting polarization. If you don't accept negative reactions then don't ask for it.
Again, there's a point where being opposing crossed to the point of being inflammatory. If posters can't tell the difference, then they should stick to the pop forums where they belong. As much as someone like Catcher10 dislikes the Beatles, he has never crossed that line in a hundred different Beatles' themed threads. If he can do it, so can anyone.

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Posted By: Shadowyzard
Date Posted: January 28 2021 at 12:23
"Elevator music", per se, is not an insultive saying for me. It can mean like "background music". For instance, I am not much of a smooth jazz fan, but I can enjoy it in a movie scene, while a group of people are chatting and the music serves as a background element. On the other hand, "overblown mess" is undisputedly an insultive saying.


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: January 28 2021 at 12:24
See the last post.

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Posted By: Shadowyzard
Date Posted: January 28 2021 at 12:30
^ I began writing my above post before that. BTW, I don't think either your thread or the negative comments are "the things that should not be" here. 


Posted By: suitkees
Date Posted: January 28 2021 at 12:49
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

"Overblown mess" seems more insulting to me than "elevator music"... I mean, your thread question is inciting polarization. If you don't accept negative reactions then don't ask for it.
Again, there's a point where being opposing crossed to the point of being inflammatory. If posters can't tell the difference, then they should stick to the pop forums where they belong. As much as someone like Catcher10 dislikes the Beatles, he has never crossed that line in a hundred different Beatles' themed threads. If he can do it, so can anyone.

I've gone through this thread again and I don't really see an inflammatory post. Unless you think someone_else's post is (stating Marbles is elevator music). This is the one I referred to and quoted, so mine could be qualified as such too, then, maybe (which was not intended to be so, of course).
If you mean that the lack of arguments to defend a negative opinion (or positive, for that matter), and state an opinion as a fact is inflammatory, then I can understand your point (and I don't need any other forum member as reference point, neither you I guess), but on the other hand, it's a forum: so, with a polarizing thread question you get some that enter and shout negative things and some that enter and shout positive things (which of course we never condemn). It's what we can expect (and react to), but eventually - let's hope - it will lead to more constructive discussions (and actually, I think the PA-forums are quite good for that...).


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The razamataz is a pain in the bum


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: January 28 2021 at 13:02
Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

"Overblown mess" seems more insulting to me than "elevator music"... I mean, your thread question is inciting polarization. If you don't accept negative reactions then don't ask for it.
Again, there's a point where being opposing crossed to the point of being inflammatory. If posters can't tell the difference, then they should stick to the pop forums where they belong. As much as someone like Catcher10 dislikes the Beatles, he has never crossed that line in a hundred different Beatles' themed threads. If he can do it, so can anyone.

I've gone through this thread again and I don't really see an inflammatory post. Unless you think someone_else's post is (stating Marbles is elevator music). This is the one I referred to and quoted, so mine could be qualified as such too, then, maybe (which was not intended to be so, of course).
If you mean that the lack of arguments to defend a negative opinion (or positive, for that matter), and state an opinion as a fact is inflammatory, then I can understand your point (and I don't need any other forum member as reference point, neither you I guess), but on the other hand, it's a forum: so, with a polarizing thread question you get some that enter and shout negative things and some that enter and shout positive things (which of course we never condemn). It's what we can expect (and react to), but eventually - let's hope - it will lead to more constructive discussions (and actually, I think the PA-forums are quite good for that...).
That was an excellent post and on reflection I agree with your points. My apologies to any posters that I may have taken for being inflammatory when they were only stating a benign opinion.

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Posted By: suitkees
Date Posted: January 28 2021 at 13:41
^ Thanks, Steve, appreciated.

And to get back on track, regarding Brave, I think this album may be some kind of a blue-print of the Marillion music and sound of the Hogarth era. This album set forth their musical direction in a way. But personally, I prefer some more sharp edges to their music, or some "outings" into other territories (like the Beach Boys nudge on Afraid of Sunlight, e.g.). In my opinion they lost that a bit (although I must say that the FEAR album was quite good...) And I'm definitely not asking myself if it's prog enough or not... who cares, we like what we like (or not).



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The razamataz is a pain in the bum


Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: January 28 2021 at 13:54
Some people really do seem to look at the Prog label as a badge of honour.   And some will look at the label in a negative light -- overblown, pompous, pretentious pseudo-intellectual, wonky and w**ky noodle-fest, rambling, nerdish etc. Despite the diversity of Prog and amount of influences that it incorporates, and the fairly nebulous attributes, some dismiss that which they don't think is Prog, or progressive enough perhaps with some, while others don't care if Prog is truly progressive but just as a genre.... I wouldn't downgrade an album because it is less Prog, and some bands go far too far with certain Prog stereotypes in the music for me (like the Flower Kings). I would only ask myself is something was Prog enough when evaluating music for PA (and in making some polls). But I digress.

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Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me.


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: January 28 2021 at 14:10
Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

^ Thanks, Steve, appreciated.

And to get back on track, regarding Brave, I think this album may be some kind of a blue-print of the Marillion music and sound of the Hogarth era. This album set forth their musical direction in a way. But personally, I prefer some more sharp edges to their music, or some "outings" into other territories (like the Beach Boys nudge on Afraid of Sunlight, e.g.). In my opinion they lost that a bit (although I must say that the FEAR album was quite good...) And I'm definitely not asking myself if it's prog enough or not... who cares, we like what we like (or not).

This is really a topic for another thread but where do we draw the line between an artist having a definable sound and style, that we appreciate, versus becoming predictable and not moving forward. Something that I've always wrestled with.

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Posted By: Cosmiclawnmower
Date Posted: January 28 2021 at 14:34
I loved the 'Fish' era Marillion in many ways due to it 'being there' and 'happening' at a time when i was younger, actively involved in the backround of and following much more live music as it happened. But i think that era of Marillion is more formulaic, based around 'classic' era prog yet i still prefer it to Steve Hogarth era material which is more certainly  more contemporary and diverse in its sound, groundings and inspirations yet it tends to leave me somewhat cold. I saw the Season's end tour which was ok and i listened to Brave on numerous occasions when it came out and some of it is great but as an entity i just couldnt get it. Ive dipped into the band on and off over the years and still feel the same. I have nothing but admiration for the band as musicians, for their enterprise and determination but i just cant, hand on heart, find more than occasional sparks of connection with them.

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Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: January 28 2021 at 16:17
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Calling Brave or Marbles elevator music is uncalled for and is the type of post seen on pop music forums where the uncooth argue over Lorde and Billy Eilish. It's sad to see that type of babyish behavior here.



They used to hang men for less than that!

Tar and Feather them I say!!!!!


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Posted By: iluvmarillion
Date Posted: January 29 2021 at 02:47
Since everybody wants to talk about Marbles as well, in my opinion both are classics. Elevator music is an insult to Marbles. I come from a different angle because I first bought the Marbles single disc. As good as people rave about Ocean Cloud I much prefer the single disc to the double album. Not a weak spot anywhere. Masterpiece in my view. Brave doesn't quite reach the same heights as Marbles. Some flat spots although it's difficult to say what if any songs detract from the album. Perhaps lyrically their best album and fantastic concept if you're into concepts. The Great Escape is up there with their best songs.


Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: January 29 2021 at 10:01
Originally posted by iluvmarillion iluvmarillion wrote:

Since everybody wants to talk about Marbles as well, in my opinion both are classics. Elevator music is an insult to Marbles. I come from a different angle because I first bought the Marbles single disc. As good as people rave about Ocean Cloud I much prefer the single disc to the double album. Not a weak spot anywhere. Masterpiece in my view. Brave doesn't quite reach the same heights as Marbles. Some flat spots although it's difficult to say what if any songs detract from the album. Perhaps lyrically their best album and fantastic concept if you're into concepts. The Great Escape is up there with their best songs.

That's a good post. I tend to agree, I have the Madfish 2011 2LP issue as well the 2017 3LP box issue with Ocean Cloud and the other expanded CD songs. To me OC just never fit the mood of Marbles, IMO it would have been better on TSE.
I look at both albums differently, both have a theme/concept and of course Brave is 100% concept and from that view to me it is a masterpc, Marbles is right behind but more for a brilliant pc of work and not so much a concept. The bookend songs of Invisible Man and Neverland are perfect! Clap


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Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: January 29 2021 at 10:28
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by iluvmarillion iluvmarillion wrote:

Since everybody wants to talk about Marbles as well, in my opinion both are classics. Elevator music is an insult to Marbles. I come from a different angle because I first bought the Marbles single disc. As good as people rave about Ocean Cloud I much prefer the single disc to the double album. Not a weak spot anywhere. Masterpiece in my view. Brave doesn't quite reach the same heights as Marbles. Some flat spots although it's difficult to say what if any songs detract from the album. Perhaps lyrically their best album and fantastic concept if you're into concepts. The Great Escape is up there with their best songs.

That's a good post. I tend to agree, I have the Madfish 2011 2LP issue as well the 2017 3LP box issue with Ocean Cloud and the other expanded CD songs. To me OC just never fit the mood of Marbles, IMO it would have been better on TSE.
I look at both albums differently, both have a theme/concept and of course Brave is 100% concept and from that view to me it is a masterpc, Marbles is right behind but more for a brilliant pc of work and not so much a concept. The bookend songs of Invisible Man and Neverland are perfect! Clap

Yes, these are pretty much my thoughts. Ocean Cloud comes alive in the live setting of Friends from the Orchestra DVD, recorded at the show in Cardiff I went to with my son.

However, on record, my default setting is still the single cd of Marbles.


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Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!


Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: January 30 2021 at 01:21
So I had another listen to it a few days ago to see if my opinion had changed in 15 years (it really has been that long!) . First of all its 71 minutes long . Wow that did surprise me and they did play the whole thing at the St Davids Hall gig back in the 90's. My issue is still the same - no real memorable songs. However I'm missing the point as usual as its basically one very long song and that was the point. It flows perfectly and Hogarth sings as well as any time in his career and has a truly beautiful voice. It definitely has a reason for existing and will permanently divide opinion , but that's nothing against it. However I would prefer to listen to 5 other Marillion H era albums before it and it probably would scrape into my personal Marillion Top Ten. Different folks different strokes. BTW I wish people would just give opinions rather than snipe at other people for not saying what they want to hear , oh well okay it is Progarchives Smile


Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: January 30 2021 at 02:13
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

There's many pro and con opinions. Please state yours and why.


when I first heard it, I was "underwhelming blown away"LOL. I had hated everything Steve H  prior to it (not that I was a huge fan of all the Fish era either >> I only really liked Script), but this was musically very strong.

Soooo, I spinned Brave (borrowed never bought) quite a few times and even managed to see the movie once (hardly any internet back then), and thought it was quite good - which was quite a feat as I didn't like neo-prog or plaintive/whinny vocals.

I don't think I could spin it nowadays without cringing f-heavily and would probably pop it out after one or two tracks.


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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: January 30 2021 at 16:11
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

There's many pro and con opinions. Please state yours and why.


when I first heard it, I was "underwhelming blown away"LOL. I had hated everything Steve H  prior to it (not that I was a huge fan of all the Fish era either >> I only really liked Script), but this was musically very strong.

Soooo, I spinned Brave (borrowed never bought) quite a few times and even managed to see the movie once (hardly any internet back then), and thought it was quite good - which was quite a feat as I didn't like neo-prog or plaintive/whinny vocals.

I don't think I could spin it nowadays without cringing f-heavily and would probably pop it out after one or two tracks.
I still haven't seen the movie. I was always afraid that it would resemble a 70 minute long video.


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Posted By: miamiscot
Date Posted: February 01 2021 at 14:12
Good album but I prefer Marbles.

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The Prog Corner


Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: February 03 2021 at 05:24
I can honestly say I've completely forgotten Brave. No one track stood out for me. I'll have to give it another go. I just remember thinking it was unnecessarily long, and quite depressing.

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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: February 03 2021 at 05:27
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

I just remember thinking it was unnecessarily long, and quite depressing.
It must be the Pink Floyd influence. Wink  Btw, it's good to see you around these parts. I was a bit concerned.

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Posted By: Steve Wyzard
Date Posted: February 03 2021 at 10:43
Let me put it this way:

I have not listened to one note of new Marillion since hearing and loving the Brave album. This album is so DEFINITIVE and ALL-ENCOMPASSING that anything after could only be a disappointment.

Not only is Brave Marillion's best album, but I consider it the greatest rock album by ANYBODY in the entire decade of the 1990's.


Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: February 03 2021 at 11:06
Originally posted by Steve Wyzard Steve Wyzard wrote:

Let me put it this way:

I have not listened to one note of new Marillion since hearing and loving the Brave album. This album is so DEFINITIVE and ALL-ENCOMPASSING that anything after could only be a disappointment.

Not only is Brave Marillion's best album, but I consider it the greatest rock album by ANYBODY in the entire decade of the 1990's.

Agree with you about Brave, but you really ought to try, at the very least, Marbles and FEAR. They are both masterpieces.


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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org

Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!


Posted By: Steve Wyzard
Date Posted: January 19 2024 at 10:08
[/QUOTE] I still haven't seen the movie. I was always afraid that it would resemble a 70 minute long video.
[/QUOTE]

Actually, the movie they "allowed to accompany the music" is only 60 minutes, because they exclude "Paper Lies" and "Made Again", my two favorite songs on the album. I can sort of understand leaving "Paper Lies" out, because it's really just a "side-bar" to the album's concept/story. But excluding the unnamed protagonist's ultimate redemption in "Made Again" is simply unforgivable and an act of violence against the album. Still, the band signed off on it, and of course the director just wanted it to be a morbid and gloomy suicide story, so "Made Again" had to go!


Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: January 19 2024 at 11:12
 I haven't been in a rush to listen to it, but give me another decade or so


Posted By: Boojieboy
Date Posted: January 19 2024 at 17:15
Brave is decent album, maybe 3.5 stars. It's got good moments. It's neither a classic nor a mess.

I used to listen to it much more (say 15 years ago) than now. I hardly ever listen to it now, or only listen to a few songs. Of all the albums from the first to Radiation, I'd put this in the lower third of the ranked albums. It's as overrated in the Hogarth catalog as Misplaced Childhood is (to me) in the Fish catalog.


Posted By: Magog2112
Date Posted: January 26 2024 at 10:04
Marillion's Brave is a classic. In fact, it's in my top 3 albums of all time. There are no weak moments throughout its 70-minute runtime. Almost every song on Brave are among my favorite Marillion songs. The musicianship and performances found on this record are stunning. Each musician is given a chance to shine. The flow of Brave is impeccable. I simply can't praise this album enough.


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: February 16 2024 at 03:34
Hi,

This goes back a few years, but my thoughts are the the "mess" is in our heads, not in the musician's work.

The big difference, is that we don't have the courage to stand up and create something ... as opposed to the band (in this case) and the material. 

It's stange, and weird, that when we don't "get it", we immediately find it horrible, and bad.

None of us sits here and discusses which of Mozart violin concerts is crap. Or Beethoven's Sonatas. But we sit here and think that some Beatles songs are ... the stool pit ... and someone else's ... this or that. 

I suppose I have no qualms with "Metal Machine Music", but then, I would stand up and finger the record company too! As in take this job and shove it! Heck, even Mike Oldfield did that ... and we like that piece, regardless of how weird it is ... far more entertaining than a lot of his rehashes!


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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: February 17 2024 at 00:13
^ Of course no one is going to discuss Mozart in that way, there is a certain 'fascism' and snobbery about classical music that I hate anyway. Admittedly this can translate to 'progressive rock' as well (no name no pack drill LOL)


Posted By: Hrychu
Date Posted: February 17 2024 at 01:52
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

there is a certain 'fascism' and snobbery about classical music that I hate anyway. Admittedly this can translate to 'progressive rock' as well (no name no pack drill LOL)
Oh yes! I agree! Especially progressive electronic! The hardcore progressive electronic snobs will defend even the biggest smelly turd shat out by the almighty Klaus Schmaltze and glorify that pointless early Tangerine Dream racket (the Phaedra, Rubycon, Stratosphear etc. era stuff) no matter how cringeworthy and bland sounding. I mean, yeah. I'm not the target listener for progressive electronic. You got it! ;)

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Posted By: essexboyinwales
Date Posted: February 17 2024 at 09:10
For me it’s a classic, and sits in my top 3 Marillion albums with MC and CAS. I love a concept album and this is a great one - it’s moody, it’s dark, it’s atmospheric….and it has The Great Escape, one of Marillion’s very finest moments😎😎😎

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Heaven is waiting but waiting is Hell


Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: February 17 2024 at 09:11
Originally posted by essexboyinwales essexboyinwales wrote:

For me it’s a classic, and sits in my top 3 Marillion albums with MC and CAS. I love a concept album and this is a great one - it’s moody, it’s dark, it’s atmospheric….and it has The Great Escape, one of Marillion’s very finest moments😎😎😎
Thumbs UpTongue


Posted By: essexboyinwales
Date Posted: February 17 2024 at 09:19
It was 30 years old last week😳😎

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Heaven is waiting but waiting is Hell


Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: February 17 2024 at 13:31
Originally posted by essexboyinwales essexboyinwales wrote:

It was 30 years old last week😳😎

Incredible, isn't it? 


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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org

Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: February 19 2024 at 08:10
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

So I had another listen to it a few days ago to see if my opinion had changed in 15 years (it really has been that long!) . First of all its 71 minutes long . Wow that did surprise me and they did play the whole thing at the St Davids Hall gig back in the 90's. My issue is still the same - no real memorable songs.
...
 

Hi,

I'm not sure that "memorable" is the proper word, or idea, to look at these pieces of music. No one here or in 73 years of my ears, has anyone tried to hum along with Beethoven's 9th, 8th, 7th, or whichever, of anyone stopped the world by humming along with Stravinsky ... that is NOT a good criteria for music, and sadly enough is something that is used by folks within "progressive this or that" ... and a lot of the music that is considered "progressive" is not designed, and NEVER WAS, to be on a top 5 or top 10 ,,, yet, we treat them like they were a hit song, which is sad, and takes away a lot of what the original musicians wanted to do with their music ... which in most cases was to break away from the AM styled radio control, and the new FM Radio band helped make the long cuts favorable and loved ... we love Layla, but I have never heard anyone hum along or whistle with it!

I kinda think that this "memorable" thing belongs to the hits, and is a part of the radio of 50 years ago, but I'm not sure that we will remember any of the top 50 AoY for 2023 by the amount of memorable moments that we can whistle to or humm. 

I'm gonna try PoiL now ... maybe I can whistle something! Wink


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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: mellotronwave
Date Posted: February 19 2024 at 15:18
A classic

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"You must not talk to idiots, it instructs them" (Michel Audiard)
" Je ne parle pas aux idiots , cela les instruit"


Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: February 19 2024 at 16:47
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

So I had another listen to it a few days ago to see if my opinion had changed in 15 years (it really has been that long!) . First of all its 71 minutes long . Wow that did surprise me and they did play the whole thing at the St Davids Hall gig back in the 90's. My issue is still the same - no real memorable songs.
...
 

Hi,

I'm not sure that "memorable" is the proper word, or idea, to look at these pieces of music. No one here or in 73 years of my ears, has anyone tried to hum along with Beethoven's 9th, 8th, 7th, or whichever, of anyone stopped the world by humming along with Stravinsky ... that is NOT a good criteria for music, and sadly enough is something that is used by folks within "progressive this or that" ... and a lot of the music that is considered "progressive" is not designed, and NEVER WAS, to be on a top 5 or top 10 ,,, yet, we treat them like they were a hit song, which is sad, and takes away a lot of what the original musicians wanted to do with their music ... which in most cases was to break away from the AM styled radio control, and the new FM Radio band helped make the long cuts favorable and loved ... we love Layla, but I have never heard anyone hum along or whistle with it!

I kinda think that this "memorable" thing belongs to the hits, and is a part of the radio of 50 years ago, but I'm not sure that we will remember any of the top 50 AoY for 2023 by the amount of memorable moments that we can whistle to or humm. 

I'm gonna try PoiL now ... maybe I can whistle something! Wink

It seems to fall on deaf ears but I hate it when my posts are edited. So here is my full post

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

So I had another listen to it a few days ago to see if my opinion had changed in 15 years (it really has been that long!) . First of all its 71 minutes long . Wow that did surprise me and they did play the whole thing at the St Davids Hall gig back in the 90's. My issue is still the same - no real memorable songs. However I'm missing the point as usual as its basically one very long song and that was the point. It flows perfectly and Hogarth sings as well as any time in his career and has a truly beautiful voice. It definitely has a reason for existing and will permanently divide opinion , but that's nothing against it. However I would prefer to listen to 5 other Marillion H era albums before it and it probably would scrape into my personal Marillion Top Ten. Different folks different strokes. BTW I wish people would just give opinions rather than snipe at other people for not saying what they want to hear , oh well okay it is Progarchives Smile 

So you deliberately ignored my comment 'However I'm missing the point as usual as its basically one very long song and that was the point' just so you could just have yet another version of you bigging yourself up.
I struggle with the album but I respect it even if I'm never really going to love it I suspect. Nevermind there is plenty of other music for me to listen to out there.
BTW Poil Ueda is good but personally I prefer Yosh*tsune over the first one. This is a totally different style of music to neo prog . I suspect you know this though Confused


Posted By: Frets N Worries
Date Posted: February 24 2024 at 20:50
Listening to it now, not sure how memorable it's going to be, but it sounds good, and the playing is fantastic. I have a feeling it's going to be like 'Wind and Wuthering' a fantastic record, but nothing super memorable. One I'll occasionally come back to 

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The Wheel of Time Turns, and Ages come and pass. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under the shadow.

Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time...


Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: February 25 2024 at 00:25
Originally posted by Frets N Worries Frets N Worries wrote:

Listening to it now, not sure how memorable it's going to be, but it sounds good, and the playing is fantastic. I have a feeling it's going to be like 'Wind and Wuthering' a fantastic record, but nothing super memorable. One I'll occasionally come back to 

Nothing memorable on Wind & Wuthering?! Shocked The only thing not memorable on it is Rutherford's ballad (YOSW), everything else is worthy of praise. 


Posted By: Frets N Worries
Date Posted: February 25 2024 at 01:27
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Frets N Worries Frets N Worries wrote:

Listening to it now, not sure how memorable it's going to be, but it sounds good, and the playing is fantastic. I have a feeling it's going to be like 'Wind and Wuthering' a fantastic record, but nothing super memorable. One I'll occasionally come back to 


Nothing memorable on Wind & Wuthering?! Shocked The only thing not memorable on it is Rutherford's ballad (YOSW), everything else is worthy of praise. 


I've heard it half a dozen times. Everytime I listen to it I love it, but it never sticks with me.

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The Wheel of Time Turns, and Ages come and pass. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under the shadow.

Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time...


Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: February 25 2024 at 01:37
Originally posted by Frets N Worries Frets N Worries wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Frets N Worries Frets N Worries wrote:

Listening to it now, not sure how memorable it's going to be, but it sounds good, and the playing is fantastic. I have a feeling it's going to be like 'Wind and Wuthering' a fantastic record, but nothing super memorable. One I'll occasionally come back to 


Nothing memorable on Wind & Wuthering?! Shocked The only thing not memorable on it is Rutherford's ballad (YOSW), everything else is worthy of praise. 


I've heard it half a dozen times. Everytime I listen to it I love it, but it never sticks with me.

So you only listened to it 6 times? LOL And it still did not click with you?! I don't know what to say then, give it a second chance or give up on the band altogether, maybe it's not your thing. 


Posted By: Frets N Worries
Date Posted: February 25 2024 at 01:39
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Frets N Worries Frets N Worries wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Frets N Worries Frets N Worries wrote:

Listening to it now, not sure how memorable it's going to be, but it sounds good, and the playing is fantastic. I have a feeling it's going to be like 'Wind and Wuthering' a fantastic record, but nothing super memorable. One I'll occasionally come back to 


Nothing memorable on Wind & Wuthering?! Shocked The only thing not memorable on it is Rutherford's ballad (YOSW), everything else is worthy of praise. 


I've heard it half a dozen times. Everytime I listen to it I love it, but it never sticks with me.


So you only listened to it 6 times? LOL And it still did not click with you?! I don't know what to say then, give it a second chance or give up on the band altogether, maybe it's not your thing. 

I'll give it another spin tomorrow, I'm a huge fan of Genesis (I was listening to The Lamb earlier, fantastic

-------------
The Wheel of Time Turns, and Ages come and pass. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under the shadow.

Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time...


Posted By: Harold B
Date Posted: February 25 2024 at 15:20
I love fish Marillion. I even liked SE/HIE. I bought Brave day of release. I still can't get it. It's just dull. I must admit I struggled with TSE onwards. 



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