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What do you guys think of "The Final Cut"

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Printed Date: December 06 2021 at 23:43
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Topic: What do you guys think of "The Final Cut"
Posted By: Cboi Sandlin
Subject: What do you guys think of "The Final Cut"
Date Posted: March 26 2021 at 08:59
Pink Floyd's "The Final Cut" is one of my all time favorite albums, but i understand that a lot of people dislike it. I would like to know what you guys think of it. 



Replies:
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: March 26 2021 at 09:23
It perfectly exhibits a band in total disarray. The album is OK but sounds very much like the leftovers from previous sessions that it mostly is. I used to hate it but it has grown on me a bit more over the years. Still though, the classic Pink Floyd majesty ended with The Wall.


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https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: March 26 2021 at 09:26
It would have been great if it was released as a Roger Waters solo album. But alas, it was not.

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Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: March 26 2021 at 09:30
Not one of my top albums, but I certainly enjoy it very much. It's one of those albums that arise controversy and conflicted opinions. Every band that has a long discography is meant to have one of these. 


Posted By: Cboi Sandlin
Date Posted: March 26 2021 at 09:34
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

It would have been great if it was released as a Roger Waters solo album. But alas, it was not.
I dont know though. Everybody says that it was bassically a Roger Waters solo album, but i honestly dont think that's the case. I mean, Rick didnt contribute to much because he was kicked out of the band, but certainly David Gimour did contribute a lot. I mean, several of the songs had some killer David Golmour solos, and he even sang on "Not Now John". I mean, Roger certainly was the leader of the project, but i dont think his taking over was enough to really make not Pink Floyd. That's at least the way i see it.


Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: March 26 2021 at 09:39
Didn't Roger Waters effectively become band leader from DSOTM onwards? The reality of a Dave Gilmour lead Floyd was not that great really. I prefer The Final Cut to anything after although I would like it more if When The Tigers Broke Free had been included. That's a total killer track if ever there was one. The inspiration left when Waters left.


Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: March 26 2021 at 09:50
I don't play it as much as I should probably, I don't have any issue with it, not sure why people don't like it.

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Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: March 26 2021 at 09:53
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

I don't play it as much as I should probably, I don't have any issue with it, not sure why people don't like it.

main complaint is that it's depressing... 


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: March 26 2021 at 10:00
^ It's Floyd damn it! It's supposed to be depressing. Wink

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Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: March 26 2021 at 10:06
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

^ It's Floyd damn it! It's supposed to be depressing. Wink

LOL

don't know if it's "supposed to" LOL

I've also seen many calling Roger's vocal performance as whinny. LOL


Posted By: AZF
Date Posted: March 26 2021 at 10:12
I suppose it's where the Roger template came unstuck. The orchestra compensating for the lack of Rick still dates it. Some lyrics still stand up. Some great moments. Just not enough to make a better album. If the purpose was to make an album that stands still and seem antiquated. They won that.
A pity as I really love the cover and artwork.
There has been an expensive book written about this album. But you have had to have already bought the expensive book about The Wall.
I'm just not intrigued enough. But still say the making of The Wall Movie broke the band. Between The Final Cut and The Wall, no act has ever sounded as burnt out of new ideas than Pink Floyd did on that album, for me.


Posted By: Cboi Sandlin
Date Posted: March 26 2021 at 10:45
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Didn't Roger Waters effectively become band leader from DSOTM onwards? The reality of a Dave Gilmour lead Floyd was not that great really. I prefer The Final Cut to anything after although I would like it more if When The Tigers Broke Free had been included. That's a total killer track if ever there was one. The inspiration left when Waters left.
Exactly I agree. I mean, I still like the post Waters material, but it doesn't even come close to the stuff they put out when Waters was in the band. I will say though, the later versions of the album and the one that is up on Spotify do include "When The Tigers Broke Free". 


Posted By: Cboi Sandlin
Date Posted: March 26 2021 at 10:50
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

^ It's Floyd damn it! It's supposed to be depressing. Wink

LOL

don't know if it's "supposed to" LOL

I've also seen many calling Roger's vocal performance as whinny. LOL

I dont see the album as whiny, i see it as sad, very sad, but in a good way. "The Final Cut" touches me emotionally much more than any other album ever has. Whenever i hear "The Gunners Dream", I get goose bumps because the music is so deeply sad. I see "The Final Cut" as effectively turning the anger from "The Wall" and "Animals" into sadness. I dont see him as whining, i see him a mourning.


Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: March 26 2021 at 12:25
My least favorite Floyd album and one that shows the complete dissolution of everything great about Floyd. Waters great ideas with Gilmours & Wrights musicianship. They all needed each other. It's the only one I ever got rid of. 

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Ian






Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: March 26 2021 at 13:08
What do I think of it? Actually, I try not to.  Wink

All kidding aside I actually don't think it's that bad. Not one of PF's best but still decent enough imo. It was actually the first album I bought by them. 


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When you list all the qualities that you despise and you realize you're describing yourself


Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: March 26 2021 at 13:37
Back when I was much younger and felt crappy, putting this album on used to cheer me up because it would mean there was another bloke out there more depressed than me. It's also a good album to listen to while you're in the middle of spreading an entire jar of mayonnaise all over the kitchen counters.




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to meet anyone nose at nose
the walls have hearsay
he go to four feet
take the moon with the teeth
he has a good beak
the stone as roll not heap up not foam


Posted By: Cboi Sandlin
Date Posted: March 26 2021 at 15:06
Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

Back when I was much younger and felt crappy, putting this album on used to cheer me up because it would mean there was another bloke out there more depressed than me. It's also a good album to listen to while you're in the middle of spreading an entire jar of mayonnaise all over the kitchen counters.



Well the mayonase thing is gross but i agree with what your saying. I think that it is a great album, a pure gem, but i think it is really sad and depressing, which i think is the big reason people are put off by it.


Posted By: JD
Date Posted: March 26 2021 at 15:23
Sorry, not a fan. I've tried on multiple occasions to give it yet another chance to woo me. But the woo is more like
"Woo...I  think I might hurl !"

Not Now John is the only listenable track for me. Probably the only LP I don't regret getting rid of, although I still have the CD.


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Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: March 26 2021 at 15:39
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

I don't play it as much as I should probably, I don't have any issue with it, not sure why people don't like it.

main complaint is that it's depressing... 

True but that's what you get from Mr Waters, he's such a barrel full of laughs!! But really, many of their albums are depressing.


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Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: March 26 2021 at 17:32
I won't listen to it anymore. It is Pink Floyd's In Through the Out Door...or maybe that was Zeppelin's Final Cut. 

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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...


Posted By: Cboi Sandlin
Date Posted: March 26 2021 at 18:41
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

I won't listen to it anymore. It is Pink Floyd's In Through the Out Door...or maybe that was Zeppelin's Final Cut. 
What? Bruh, "In Through The Out Door" is a great album too. 


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: March 26 2021 at 18:58
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

I won't listen to it anymore. It is Pink Floyd's In Through the Out Door...or maybe that was Zeppelin's Final Cut. 
   

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Posted By: JD
Date Posted: March 26 2021 at 19:55
Originally posted by Cboi Sandlin Cboi Sandlin wrote:

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

I won't listen to it anymore. It is Pink Floyd's In Through the Out Door...or maybe that was Zeppelin's Final Cut. 
What? Bruh, "In Through The Out Door" is a great album too. 
Seconded ! Thumbs Up  (But not TOO, Final cut still sucks, sorry bro)


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Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: March 26 2021 at 23:47
Stellar recording.

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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021


Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: March 27 2021 at 00:17
I would've commented, but I've already been there and done that on SteveG's thread on the same topic. Smile
 
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=125328&PN=1" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=125328&PN=1


Posted By: Progishness
Date Posted: March 27 2021 at 00:52
I personally love TFC - I find it a more satisfying & coherent album than The Wall.


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"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."
- Douglas Adams, Mostly Harmless


Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: March 27 2021 at 02:18
Originally posted by Progishness Progishness wrote:

I personally love TFC - I find it a more satisfying & coherent album than The Wall.


Love both, but disagree

The Wall's storyline is easily understood (further helped by the movie a couple of years later), while TFC's needs a fair amount of concentration.
In other words, I got TW almost immediately, but TFC took a fair while (the "grower" album par excellence) and even the return to piano & organ was surprising (after TW's synth fest), at the time were synths were invading even guitar power trios like Rush.
The TFC videoclips film helped understand where Roger was getting at, but even then, it was not a cinch.

A bit the problem of all these Waters solo album concept: maybe too self-centered, as if he (Roger) expected us to be in his head.


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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword


Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: March 27 2021 at 02:24
I have always had a difficult time with The Final Cut. I too think it should have been a Waters’ solo album as it never felt like a Floyd joint to these ears. It sounds like The Wall 2 but in an infinitely more sterile dressing.
The Wall was certainly also very much a personal thing for Waters but when you hear that thing over live albums you get ‘Pink Floyd’..mostly because I think the band generally backed him up on this very personal journey. I could never imagine Floyd doing The Final Cut live and sounding like ‘Pink Floyd’...but maybe that’s just my very biased take

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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams


Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: March 27 2021 at 02:30
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

I have always had a difficult time with The Final Cut. I too think it should have been a Waters’ solo album as it never felt like a Floyd joint to these ears. It sounds like The Wall 2 but in an infinitely more sterile dressing.
The Wall was certainly also very much a personal thing for Waters but when you hear that thing over live albums you get ‘Pink Floyd’..mostly because I think the band generally backed him up on this very personal journey. I could never imagine Floyd doing The Final Cut live and sounding like ‘Pink Floyd’...but maybe that’s just my very biased take


You'd have to try to imagine what the TFC album would've sounded like with Rick Wright still in band.

After all, Wright was a piano & organ dude before being a synth player.


-------------
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword


Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: March 27 2021 at 02:46
That’s my point though. It didn’t seem like the rest of the band was into the thing which is obvious when you find out how it was recorded.
My tip for Rog at the time would probably have sounded somewhat close to: if the rest of the band doesn’t seem remotely interested in your venture, do it under a different moniker.

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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams


Posted By: Progishness
Date Posted: March 27 2021 at 03:32
That for me is the one downside to TFC, suffering from what I call 'lack of Rick' - as did The Wall to an extent.  For me, Rick's lush keyboards are an integral part of the Floydian sound... but as we all know, Roger was taking totalitarian control, and DG and NM seemed to be just going through the motions when making TFC.  I still love it though as it is all part of the Floydian heritage.


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"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."
- Douglas Adams, Mostly Harmless


Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: March 27 2021 at 04:28
It's another facet to Pink Floyd. We'd Syd and Rick's collab on Piper, the four some on most of the rest with Water Setting the Controls for the Heart of the band roughly from Animals to The Final Cut. Then the DG led version. One has to adjust the mind set rather than get bogged down in media influence.

I think TFC is excellent with links to The Wall in terms of the orchestrations and moving the war context from the Second War to that of the Malvinas. Er, Falklands. His point is that nothing changes with the doing and dying. DG contributed guitar with some as usual fine solos. Not the first and only time Floyd have used collaborators from outside. (Piper was a collaboration on the inside than out).

Thematically it's more oriented to Bring The Boys Back Home than Comfortably Numb which may have wrong footed some. Including me, it took ages to get into this album. It's austere and intellectual and has to be understood and accepted on those terms not something for most rock fans, even proving a challenge for the creme de la creme of rock audiences - the prog rock crowd. It is precise on it's locations and themes which does make it a period piece unlike the universal themes of Dark Side.

As for depressing, well who listens to PF for jolly japes? It is not mysterious and Waters does most of the work a listener might do, ensuring nothing is open to interpretation. There is no real cathartic element to it unlike most Floyd albums and the emotional impact is very distant.

It stiffed in the US, a mere 3 million sold. Possibly one or two since.

I wonder how it would be if Waters toured The Final Cut as he did The Wall....




Posted By: Axisus
Date Posted: March 27 2021 at 05:20
Damn! just posted a reply and the forum lost it! Doh!

Here's the gist of it:

I hated the Final cut when it came out. It was a massive disappointment after the Wall, which was an incredible album. It just seemed ...... boring. Played it a few times then gave up.

Fast forward a few decades - last year I really fancied hearing it again, so I bought a CD and played it a lot on my commute. Finally, it clicked for me, and I now see it as a very interesting album. In fact I probably rank it as my 5th fave Floyd album.




Posted By: Progishness
Date Posted: March 27 2021 at 06:26
And it makes for a more complete album if you get one of the more recent reissues that includes 'When the Tiger's Broke Free' (from the film of The Wall).


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"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."
- Douglas Adams, Mostly Harmless


Posted By: Artik
Date Posted: March 27 2021 at 08:24
It's one of those album I was suprised to know so many people have troubles to appreciate. I don't undertstand why. For me, if You like The wall, you should like The final cut. None of them is my favourite Floyd album, but both seem to be of the same kind. 


Posted By: Progishness
Date Posted: March 27 2021 at 11:25
Some dismiss TFC as 'stuff leftover from The Wall' - it is way more than that.


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"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."
- Douglas Adams, Mostly Harmless


Posted By: Cambus741
Date Posted: March 27 2021 at 12:27
It is brilliant. So wonderfully self indulgent.  And great use of brass


Posted By: MortSahlFan
Date Posted: March 27 2021 at 12:34
Not as great as their 70s stuff, but I think its their last good album.

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https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List


Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: March 27 2021 at 13:43
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

That’s my point though. It didn’t seem like the rest of the band was into the thing which is obvious when you find out how it was recorded.
My tip for Rog at the time would probably have sounded somewhat close to: if the rest of the band doesn’t seem remotely interested in your venture, do it under a different moniker.


Originally posted by Progishness Progishness wrote:

That for me is the one downside to TFC, suffering from what I call 'lack of Rick' - as did The Wall to an extent.  For me, Rick's lush keyboards are an integral part of the Floydian sound... but as we all know, Roger was taking totalitarian control, and DG and NM seemed to be just going through the motions when making TFC.  I still love it though as it is all part of the Floydian heritage.


That's my point, though

Gilmour and Wright spent all of their musical ideas on their solo albums, while Roger waqs busy saving the band from bankruptcy. The Wall was all his except for two leftovers (Numb & Run Like Hell >> actually that first popped up during Animals >> sounds like it too) from Gilmour not used on the solo album.
At least David contributed to TW, while Wright sabotaged it by taking his holidays once the studio had been pais (which was financial murder for a band just escaping bankruptcy). So he got the boot, by everyone (not just Roger)
Ditto in 83, Gilmour had nothing to propose for Roger... or holding/hoarding it for the mediocre About Face




.


-------------
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword


Posted By: suitkees
Date Posted: March 27 2021 at 14:02
Now, I may overinterpret some of the considerations above, but I cannot follow this discussion or reasoning of "what ifs"... The Final Cut is an album published under the name of Pink Floyd. But whatever... If it was under the name of Roger Waters or even Britney Spears, it doesn't change a bit of the music that is on that album (though Britney Spears fans might be surprised if it was issued under her name...).

Personally, I like TFC. It's not their best, but still very enjoyable. And yes, it announces (or continues, if you prefer) the direction Roger Waters went into. Fine with me. It is what it is; it's maybe not what you would have wanted it to be, but well, you're not Pink Floyd (or Roger Waters, or Britney Spears...).


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"Maybe nothing is really true, and not even that." Multatuli


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: March 27 2021 at 17:48
Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

Now, I may overinterpret some of the considerations above, but I cannot follow this discussion or reasoning of "what ifs"... The Final Cut is an album published under the name of Pink Floyd. But whatever... If it was under the name of Roger Waters or even Britney Spears, it doesn't change a bit of the music that is on that album (though Britney Spears fans might be surprised if it was issued under her name...).

Personally, I like TFC. It's not their best, but still very enjoyable. And yes, it announces (or continues, if you prefer) the direction Roger Waters went into. Fine with me. It is what it is; it's maybe not what you would have wanted it to be, but well, you're not Pink Floyd (or Roger Waters, or Britney Spears...).
Being released as a Waters solo album certainly would have made a difference in that it's overwhelming dour presence, without a balance of quality from the other Floyd members, would have been expected of this Waters dominated fiasco. Perhaps it would have been better as a Britney Spears album as the expectations would have been even lower and she would have put out a better album than she usually does.




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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: March 27 2021 at 23:54
That's the thing that makes Pink Floyd so great for me. Even one of my least favourite albums from them is, for me, a great album. I only wish they had originally included When the Tigers Broke Free and the two parts of The Heroes Return (I really like that song, but it's so short it's frustrating... hearing both parts together makes it so much better, but unfortunatley the second part was only released in a single. And then when they made the remaster of the album and included When the Tigers Broke Free, I don't understand why they didn't include the whole Heroes Return... if only they had done that, then I guess I would have bought the album again.


Posted By: suitkees
Date Posted: March 28 2021 at 05:48
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

Now, I may overinterpret some of the considerations above, but I cannot follow this discussion or reasoning of "what ifs"... The Final Cut is an album published under the name of Pink Floyd. But whatever... If it was under the name of Roger Waters or even Britney Spears, it doesn't change a bit of the music that is on that album (though Britney Spears fans might be surprised if it was issued under her name...).

Personally, I like TFC. It's not their best, but still very enjoyable. And yes, it announces (or continues, if you prefer) the direction Roger Waters went into. Fine with me. It is what it is; it's maybe not what you would have wanted it to be, but well, you're not Pink Floyd (or Roger Waters, or Britney Spears...).
Being released as a Waters solo album certainly would have made a difference in that it's overwhelming dour presence, without a balance of quality from the other Floyd members, would have been expected of this Waters dominated fiasco. Perhaps it would have been better as a Britney Spears album as the expectations would have been even lower and she would have put out a better album than she usually does.

Haha, yes... Pardon me the Spears anachronism, but you actually underline my point that judgments of this album often seem to be based on the expectations (the perhapses, what-ifs and woulds...) someone has/had rather than on the albums' music itself.
Which maybe raises the question if it is always possible to disconnect one's expectations from one's appreciation (critique/judgment) of music? Over time that is probably easier than on the moment of an albums' release itself...


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"Maybe nothing is really true, and not even that." Multatuli


Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: March 28 2021 at 06:01
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

Now, I may overinterpret some of the considerations above, but I cannot follow this discussion or reasoning of "what ifs"... The Final Cut is an album published under the name of Pink Floyd. But whatever... If it was under the name of Roger Waters or even Britney Spears, it doesn't change a bit of the music that is on that album (though Britney Spears fans might be surprised if it was issued under her name...).

Personally, I like TFC. It's not their best, but still very enjoyable. And yes, it announces (or continues, if you prefer) the direction Roger Waters went into. Fine with me. It is what it is; it's maybe not what you would have wanted it to be, but well, you're not Pink Floyd (or Roger Waters, or Britney Spears...).
Being released as a Waters solo album certainly would have made a difference in that it's overwhelming dour presence, without a balance of quality from the other Floyd members, would have been expected of this Waters dominated fiasco. Perhaps it would have been better as a Britney Spears album as the expectations would have been even lower and she would have put out a better album than she usually does.


I know it sounds Crazy but Sometimes, a Piece of Me wonders what Oops!... I Did It Again would sound like performed by Roger Waters. Tongue


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: March 28 2021 at 08:53
Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

Now, I may overinterpret some of the considerations above, but I cannot follow this discussion or reasoning of "what ifs"... The Final Cut is an album published under the name of Pink Floyd. But whatever... If it was under the name of Roger Waters or even Britney Spears, it doesn't change a bit of the music that is on that album (though Britney Spears fans might be surprised if it was issued under her name...).

Personally, I like TFC. It's not their best, but still very enjoyable. And yes, it announces (or continues, if you prefer) the direction Roger Waters went into. Fine with me. It is what it is; it's maybe not what you would have wanted it to be, but well, you're not Pink Floyd (or Roger Waters, or Britney Spears...).
Being released as a Waters solo album certainly would have made a difference in that it's overwhelming dour presence, without a balance of quality from the other Floyd members, would have been expected of this Waters dominated fiasco. Perhaps it would have been better as a Britney Spears album as the expectations would have been even lower and she would have put out a better album than she usually does.

Haha, yes... Pardon me the Spears anachronism, but you actually underline my point that judgments of this album often seem to be based on the expectations (the perhapses, what-ifs and woulds...) someone has/had rather than on the albums' music itself.
Which maybe raises the question if it is always possible to disconnect one's expectations from one's appreciation (critique/judgment) of music? Over time that is probably easier than on the moment of an albums' release itself...
Again, I disagree. What you are referring to is an expectation of some style or sound. And I agree that artists have every right to evlove or change in that respect. What I'm referring to is an expectation in the album's quality of music, which naturally is greater for an Pink Floyd album than it is for any of it's solo members. Instinctively, fans (the intelligent ones) know that Floyd was a sum of it's creative parts, so the expectations for a Waters solo would have been lower. A good solo album would probably be considered as great also. And a passible Floyd album would be viewed as a failure, as many feel about the TFC, as evidenced by this thread's many negative posts.

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Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: March 28 2021 at 09:48
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

Now, I may overinterpret some of the considerations above, but I cannot follow this discussion or reasoning of "what ifs"... The Final Cut is an album published under the name of Pink Floyd. But whatever... If it was under the name of Roger Waters or even Britney Spears, it doesn't change a bit of the music that is on that album (though Britney Spears fans might be surprised if it was issued under her name...).

Personally, I like TFC. It's not their best, but still very enjoyable. And yes, it announces (or continues, if you prefer) the direction Roger Waters went into. Fine with me. It is what it is; it's maybe not what you would have wanted it to be, but well, you're not Pink Floyd (or Roger Waters, or Britney Spears...).
Being released as a Waters solo album certainly would have made a difference in that it's overwhelming dour presence, without a balance of quality from the other Floyd members, would have been expected of this Waters dominated fiasco. Perhaps it would have been better as a Britney Spears album as the expectations would have been even lower and she would have put out a better album than she usually does.

Haha, yes... Pardon me the Spears anachronism, but you actually underline my point that judgments of this album often seem to be based on the expectations (the perhapses, what-ifs and woulds...) someone has/had rather than on the albums' music itself.
Which maybe raises the question if it is always possible to disconnect one's expectations from one's appreciation (critique/judgment) of music? Over time that is probably easier than on the moment of an albums' release itself...
Again, I disagree. What you are referring to is an expectation of some style or sound. And I agree that artists have every right to evlove or change in that respect. What I'm referring to is an expectation in the album's quality of music, which naturally is greater for an Pink Floyd album than it is for any of it's solo members. Instinctively, fans (the intelligent ones) know that Floyd was a sum of it's creative parts, so the expectations for a Waters solo would have been lower. A good solo album would probably be considered as great also. And a passible Floyd album would be viewed as a failure, as many feel about the TFC, as evidenced by this thread's many negative posts.

It's rather telling that many here say the inclusion of "When the Tigers Broke Free" is the best song on the album, when the song itself was part of The Wall project and was rejected for that album because it was "too personal" by the other band members. Of course, it ended up in the movie as a conveyance to further the plot, but as a composition it fits in the Waters solo album The Final Cut. Richard Wright is gone, with David Gilmour and Nick Mason acting as union-scale musicians, adding parts but divorced from the whole.

Floyd at its best was when Gilmour and Water played off one another (great examples would be "Dogs",  and "Comfortably Numb"), but there is really none of that here. The continual half-speaking/singing of Waters becomes overwhelming and unlistenable. Gilmour's only real inclusion on "Not Now John" approximates that Floydish feeling, but it's ironic that Gilmour keeps repeating "F*ck all that, we got to get on with these", as if punctuating the vacuum and the coming divorce. 

There is nothing great about this album. There is no great Floyd song here: no "Time", no "Echoes", no "Wish You Were Here", no "Shine On You Crazy Diamond", no "Dogs" or "Comfortably Numb".  There is only the unrelenting whine of Waters, speak-singing through an entire album.


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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...


Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: March 28 2021 at 11:37
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

I won't listen to it anymore. It is Pink Floyd's In Through the Out Door...or maybe that was Zeppelin's Final Cut. 

Same here....btw I have an original first US press if anyone wants to pay me good monety for it?
Wink


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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: March 28 2021 at 11:45
How much will you pay me to take it?

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This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.


Posted By: the-enid
Date Posted: March 28 2021 at 11:49
To me, it doesn't say anything which wasn't already, and better, said in The Wall.


Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: March 28 2021 at 13:55
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

How much will you pay me to take it?


LOL


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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin


Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: March 29 2021 at 05:50
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

It would have been great if it was released as a Roger Waters solo album. But alas, it was not.

Does that make a difference regarding whether you (or anybody) likes it or not? (Edit: Sorry, I reacted to this reading it on p.1, that point has in the meantime been discussed... anyway, I always try to listen to it without being affected by expectations coming from the name stuck on it.)

Personally, by the way, I find it... interesting... it has some potential, it's surely not a boring or derivative album and I can find new things on it that I enjoy, however I am very rarely in the mood to listen to it. I know other albums with pessimistic lyrics or dark mood music that don't usually make me feel bad, but The Final Cut tends to do that.  Probably it's too much of these vocals that are whiney indeed.


Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: March 29 2021 at 06:16
I've always regarded The Final Cut as a Roger Waters solo album anyway, and either way, I still rate the album higher than The Piper at the Gates of Dawn and Ummagumma. Smile


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: March 29 2021 at 06:22
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

I've always regarded The Final Cut as a Roger Waters solo album anyway, and either way, I still rate the album higher than The Piper at the Gates of Dawn and Ummagumma. Smile
yes, we know. I'm sure that you rate it high than Animals too.

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This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.


Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: March 29 2021 at 06:42
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

I know it sounds Crazy but Sometimes, a Piece of Me wonders what Oops!... I Did It Again would sound like performed by Roger Waters. Tongue

I would love to see Roger Waters cover Oops! I Did It Again, only if he promised to make a music video wearing a hot red leather jumpsuit and lead the choreographed dancers. That would make my day and put an unusual exclamation point onto his long career. Might even be better than the Waters/Geesin "Our Song."


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to meet anyone nose at nose
the walls have hearsay
he go to four feet
take the moon with the teeth
he has a good beak
the stone as roll not heap up not foam


Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: March 29 2021 at 07:31
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

I've always regarded The Final Cut as a Roger Waters solo album anyway, and either way, I still rate the album higher than The Piper at the Gates of Dawn and Ummagumma. Smile
yes, we know. I'm sure that you rate it high than Animals too.

Yes, you already know that because I said the same thing on your thread on the same subject, although Pigs (on the Wing) might fly before I'd rate The Final Cut higher than the classic Animals album. Smile


Posted By: Cboi Sandlin
Date Posted: March 29 2021 at 07:43
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

Now, I may overinterpret some of the considerations above, but I cannot follow this discussion or reasoning of "what ifs"... The Final Cut is an album published under the name of Pink Floyd. But whatever... If it was under the name of Roger Waters or even Britney Spears, it doesn't change a bit of the music that is on that album (though Britney Spears fans might be surprised if it was issued under her name...).

Personally, I like TFC. It's not their best, but still very enjoyable. And yes, it announces (or continues, if you prefer) the direction Roger Waters went into. Fine with me. It is what it is; it's maybe not what you would have wanted it to be, but well, you're not Pink Floyd (or Roger Waters, or Britney Spears...).
Being released as a Waters solo album certainly would have made a difference in that it's overwhelming dour presence, without a balance of quality from the other Floyd members, would have been expected of this Waters dominated fiasco. Perhaps it would have been better as a Britney Spears album as the expectations would have been even lower and she would have put out a better album than she usually does.

Haha, yes... Pardon me the Spears anachronism, but you actually underline my point that judgments of this album often seem to be based on the expectations (the perhapses, what-ifs and woulds...) someone has/had rather than on the albums' music itself.
Which maybe raises the question if it is always possible to disconnect one's expectations from one's appreciation (critique/judgment) of music? Over time that is probably easier than on the moment of an albums' release itself...
Again, I disagree. What you are referring to is an expectation of some style or sound. And I agree that artists have every right to evlove or change in that respect. What I'm referring to is an expectation in the album's quality of music, which naturally is greater for an Pink Floyd album than it is for any of it's solo members. Instinctively, fans (the intelligent ones) know that Floyd was a sum of it's creative parts, so the expectations for a Waters solo would have been lower. A good solo album would probably be considered as great also. And a passible Floyd album would be viewed as a failure, as many feel about the TFC, as evidenced by this thread's many negative posts.

It's rather telling that many here say the inclusion of "When the Tigers Broke Free" is the best song on the album, when the song itself was part of The Wall project and was rejected for that album because it was "too personal" by the other band members. Of course, it ended up in the movie as a conveyance to further the plot, but as a composition it fits in the Waters solo album The Final Cut. Richard Wright is gone, with David Gilmour and Nick Mason acting as union-scale musicians, adding parts but divorced from the whole.

Floyd at its best was when Gilmour and Water played off one another (great examples would be "Dogs",  and "Comfortably Numb"), but there is really none of that here. The continual half-speaking/singing of Waters becomes overwhelming and unlistenable. Gilmour's only real inclusion on "Not Now John" approximates that Floydish feeling, but it's ironic that Gilmour keeps repeating "F*ck all that, we got to get on with these", as if punctuating the vacuum and the coming divorce. 

There is nothing great about this album. There is no great Floyd song here: no "Time", no "Echoes", no "Wish You Were Here", no "Shine On You Crazy Diamond", no "Dogs" or "Comfortably Numb".  There is only the unrelenting whine of Waters, speak-singing through an entire album.

Wow I missed a lot over the weekend. I should have really kept a better eye on my OWN thread lolTongue! Anyways, I think using Yes' Union was a good example. It was less of a band effort, more or less a large effort. Lots of session players, lots of people who werent in the band working on this. However, like Yes' Union, i found that it gave it a different feel, something unique to all of the other Pink Floyd albums, something you wouldnt want for every album, but something that is interesting for this one album. I like both The Final Cut and Union too.


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: March 29 2021 at 09:25
ooof! TFC and Union, a double whammy.

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This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.


Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: March 29 2021 at 10:37
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

I've always regarded The Final Cut as a Roger Waters solo album anyway, and either way, I still rate the album higher than The Piper at the Gates of Dawn and Ummagumma. Smile
yes, we know. I'm sure that you rate it high than Animals too.

Well...anything Paul rates low is certainly worth buying and one should avoid anything he rates high.
Wink


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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin


Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: March 29 2021 at 10:49
Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

I've always regarded The Final Cut as a Roger Waters solo album anyway, and either way, I still rate the album higher than The Piper at the Gates of Dawn and Ummagumma. Smile
yes, we know. I'm sure that you rate it high than Animals too.

Well...anything Paul rates low is certainly worth buying and one should avoid anything he rates high.
Wink
You already own most of the classic British prog albums I've rated highly. Wink


Posted By: iluvmarillion
Date Posted: March 29 2021 at 23:12
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Didn't Roger Waters effectively become band leader from DSOTM onwards? The reality of a Dave Gilmour lead Floyd was not that great really. I prefer The Final Cut to anything after although I would like it more if When The Tigers Broke Free had been included. That's a total killer track if ever there was one. The inspiration left when Waters left.
I don't see it that way at all. Roger was the bass player and lyricist for the band and provided the concepts for the albums. David was the guitarist and shared the vocals with Roger. Both shared the musical credits for the songs while after WYWH Rick Wright retreated as a song writer. I don't see why one band member is placed above another on the basis that he writes the lyrics. The way a band should work is as a democracy.


Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: March 30 2021 at 02:28
Forgettable.

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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!


Posted By: Awesoreno
Date Posted: March 30 2021 at 14:17
Originally posted by iluvmarillion iluvmarillion wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Didn't Roger Waters effectively become band leader from DSOTM onwards? The reality of a Dave Gilmour lead Floyd was not that great really. I prefer The Final Cut to anything after although I would like it more if When The Tigers Broke Free had been included. That's a total killer track if ever there was one. The inspiration left when Waters left.
I don't see it that way at all. Roger was the bass player and lyricist for the band and provided the concepts for the albums. David was the guitarist and shared the vocals with Roger. Both shared the musical credits for the songs while after WYWH Rick Wright retreated as a song writer. I don't see why one band member is placed above another on the basis that he writes the lyrics. The way a band should work is as a democracy.

While I agree with your assessment of the roles in PF, not all bands are democracies, nor can they always be. Sometimes there are some members that are fine just being a player and nothing more. Or are simply unable to contribute as a composer or lyricist. Other times, the group is simply the vessel of one person's vision, like the Mothers of Invention.


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: March 30 2021 at 17:13
Originally posted by Awesoreno Awesoreno wrote:

Originally posted by iluvmarillion iluvmarillion wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Didn't Roger Waters effectively become band leader from DSOTM onwards? The reality of a Dave Gilmour lead Floyd was not that great really. I prefer The Final Cut to anything after although I would like it more if When The Tigers Broke Free had been included. That's a total killer track if ever there was one. The inspiration left when Waters left.

I don't see it that way at all. Roger was the bass player and lyricist for the band and provided the concepts for the albums. David was the guitarist and shared the vocals with Roger. Both shared the musical credits for the songs while after WYWH Rick Wright retreated as a song writer. I don't see why one band member is placed above another on the basis that he writes the lyrics. The way a band should work is as a democracy.


While I agree with your assessment of the roles in PF, not all bands are democracies, nor can they always be. Sometimes there are some members that are fine just being a player and nothing more. Or are simply unable to contribute as a composer or lyricist. Other times, the group is simply the vessel of one person's vision, like the Mothers of Invention.
That's right. Bands have leaders. Usually the alpha males.

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Posted By: tigerfeet
Date Posted: March 30 2021 at 19:33
For me this was a great follow up album to the Wall, although obviously, an entirely Waters project in regard to composition, lyrics, musical direction. I loved the somber tone, the look back to war time/post war, and war in general. It touches on love, loss, war, betrayal; it is bitter, political, and morbidly optimistic. For those reasons alone, i give it 4 stars. 

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I'm sorry, if you were right, I'd agree with you. Robin Williams.


Posted By: Jaketejas
Date Posted: April 07 2021 at 17:37
I was told it was lousy, so being somewhat of a contrarian I had to check it out. I picked it up at a HalfPrice Books for dirt cheap.

I would agree that it is dark and somber. There’s nothing overtly bad about it, but the songs were not very memorable to me at first listen. I enjoy a good hook or riff or chord progression, which I’d come to expect from Pink Floyd.

Sometimes I want to hear something moody so maybe this will grow on me in time.

For now ... I’m gonna run ... run .. run ... run ...





Posted By: MrMan2000
Date Posted: April 12 2021 at 21:09
I've always been a bigger fan than most. But I was a teen and a huge PF fan so I devoured it from the minute it came out. Yeah, the lyrical topics are repetitive after we just had Roger ruminating on losing his dad to the war through much of The Wall. 

But I like the music. At this point, Waters had perfected the sonic dynamics that exemplified Floyd in that era. Effortlessly switching from loud to soft. Also, it contains one of the absolute gems (hidden or not) within the Floyd catalog: The Gunner's Dream. Not saying it's the best song in their library, but there isn't one better IMO. I even did a video on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVhN841G4PE&t=2s&ab_channel=TheRock%26RollSoapBox

I understand why many don't like it. It's depressing. It's dated. It's closer to a Waters solo album than a true PF album.  But it's vastly superior to either of the three post-Waters PF efforts and better than anything that came out before DSOTM (Meddle and AHM about the same as TFC).  




Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: April 13 2021 at 22:13
^ For me, I guess it does sound very Waters like Floyd, but it really misses the classic Floyd sound, just because of the lack of Wright... and the shorter songs. There are some songs that I do love on this album, though (The Heroe's Return... though the whole both parts together that was released as a single, The Fletcher Memorial Home, and the title songs are my very favourite here). About The Gunner's Dream, I found it good, but not really among my favourites... though I remember hearing a bootleg a long time ago (with too bad of a sound quality, unfortunatley), from Waters solo tour with Clapton on guitars, and it had a really great version of this song (as well as perhaps my favourite version of Nobody Home).


Posted By: MrMan2000
Date Posted: April 14 2021 at 01:26
Yeah, that was likely from the The Pros and Cons of Hitchiking tour in 1984.  I saw that tour and thought the show was amazing. It did not, however, get good reviews and the arena wasn't even full. Honestly, it felt like a past-his-prime artist trying to hold onto past glory...but I loved it. 

Mostly because I loved Pros and Cons and still do. I rank it higher than any PF album other than the DSOTM / WYWH / Animals / Wall group. 


Posted By: A Crimson Mellotron
Date Posted: April 14 2021 at 02:29
I think it is daring and somewhat underrated. Not a bad album for me, but not excellent either.


Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: April 14 2021 at 21:06
Originally posted by MrMan2000 MrMan2000 wrote:

Yeah, that was likely from the The Pros and Cons of Hitchiking tour in 1984.  I saw that tour and thought the show was amazing. It did not, however, get good reviews and the arena wasn't even full. Honestly, it felt like a past-his-prime artist trying to hold onto past glory...but I loved it. 

Mostly because I loved Pros and Cons and still do. I rank it higher than any PF album other than the DSOTM / WYWH / Animals / Wall group. 


I wish he would release an album from that tour... I believe he has sound recordings from several or all shows, but no video. Still, it would be better than nothing. As for Pros, I find it nice, but nothing I really love... I prefer even The Final Cut over it, and among Roger's solo efforts, for me it is Amused to Death the best one... still, in most of his albums, I can only imagine what we might have gotten if Pink Floyd had been with him to give him some input (specially with Amused to Death itself, and his latest one).


Posted By: Michael919
Date Posted: April 24 2021 at 14:01
This thread prompted me to listen to this album for the first time in about 30 years. Back then, I listened to a lot of Floyd, including TFC. CD's came out and I had the entire PF studio catalogue replaced as priority along with Yes. There were times when I would listen to TFC quite a lot. 

I liked it a lot then and, at the time, I didn't really care much that it was less of a true PF album then the others. I liked the tunes. I liked the somber atmosphere. I like how it made me feel. 

So, here I am, listening to it, The Gunner's Dream is on, wondering if I might tear up right when Roger sings. "and as the teardrops rise to meet the comfort of the band". Sax solo. Wow. Old friend. Let's not go another 30 years.


Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: April 24 2021 at 14:29
Originally posted by Michael919 Michael919 wrote:

This thread prompted me to listen to this album for the first time in about 30 years. Back then, I listened to a lot of Floyd, including TFC. CD's came out and I had the entire PF studio catalogue replaced as priority along with Yes. There were times when I would listen to TFC quite a lot. 

I liked it a lot then and, at the time, I didn't really care much that it was less of a true PF album then the others. I liked the tunes. I liked the somber atmosphere. I like how it made me feel. 

So, here I am, listening to it, The Gunner's Dream is on, wondering if I might tear up right when Roger sings. "and as the teardrops rise to meet the comfort of the band". Sax solo. Wow. Old friend. Let's not go another 30 years.

It is fantastic when you spin an album you haven’t listened to in years, and wonder beforehand whether it is still what it was then, and as enjoyable, and you discover that it is, and, even more, get new stuff out of it. Clap


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In Lazland, life is transient. Prog is permanent.


Posted By: geekfreak
Date Posted: April 24 2021 at 15:13
It’s not a favourite of mine. But whenever i listen to it it’s a great album

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It’s a mad mad world conspiracy theories on a. Vast scale about “COVID-19 and the Government” cover up..,


Posted By: ProfPanglos
Date Posted: May 01 2021 at 17:36
I think it's a great album, I love it.  


Posted By: Un Amico
Date Posted: May 02 2021 at 00:18
The real acid test of it would be: play it to someone without telling them it's Pink Floyd and see what they really think of it! Personally I find it uninspired and boring.


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: May 03 2021 at 12:27
Hi,

I DON'T! (even think about it ... )

After spending money on the album and sitting down and hearing it, I realized it was a mistake ... it should have never been considered a PF album ... and even though a song or two were played in a few stations, in some ways ... I didn't like THE WALL Part 69 that was not included in the original, and one or two more songs added to make it like it was the band. It wasn't!


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... none of the hits, none of the time ... favoritism is not an artistic merit! www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: May 03 2021 at 20:56
^ Yeah, I think that was one of Gilmour's complaints about the album. He thought that if the songs weren't enough to be on The Wall, then why should be good enough for the new album. However, as far as I'm concerned, there are a few songs that would have been a great addition on The Wall album.


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: May 03 2021 at 21:02
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

^ Yeah, I think that was one of Gilmour's complaints about the album. He thought that if the songs weren't enough to be on The Wall, then why should be good enough for the new album. However, as far as I'm concerned, there are a few songs that would have been a great addition on The Wall album.

Hi,

Some of the stuff that was in that album was actually a part of the original WALL which had about 15 minutes taken out ... presumably to make sure that all of it could fit into 2 albums!

If you take the story material from that album, you will find that they fit into the story of the original ... and Roger never really explained that, and I do not think he will ... he knows that the story got screwed up, but he's not going to say that the record company told them they had to make sure it fit 2 albums!

There is just too much ... hidden that we can not see!


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... none of the hits, none of the time ... favoritism is not an artistic merit! www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: May 03 2021 at 21:39
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

^ Yeah, I think that was one of Gilmour's complaints about the album. He thought that if the songs weren't enough to be on The Wall, then why should be good enough for the new album. However, as far as I'm concerned, there are a few songs that would have been a great addition on The Wall album.

"When the Tigers Broke Free" was part of The Wall session and was part of the movie. It ended up on The Final Cut, but contextually it makes for more sense in the movie than on that later album. 


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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...


Posted By: jlneudorf
Date Posted: May 04 2021 at 23:08
I love The Final Cut and I think it sits perfectly beside The Wall, both musically and thematically. Sure some of it is a bit depressing and given the subject matter I wouldn't expect it not to be. Some great tracks including one on my all time faves Two Suns in the Sunset.


Posted By: jude111
Date Posted: May 05 2021 at 07:35
I was really into Floyd when it came out, and I was initially quite disappointed. But I did grow to love it after a few years. I understand it's not most people's cup of tea. Curiously, when Marillion's Brave came out, I heard it as a continuation of that sound, so it would seem to have a bit of an influence.

On the other hand, I never got the love for Amused to Death, while I thought Is This the Life We Really Want to be the best Floyd-related album since The Wall. I guess on all these counts I'm in the minority.


Posted By: Cambus741
Date Posted: May 05 2021 at 08:40
it's brilliant 
Floyd's greatest album. Its excellent from start to finish 


Posted By: nick_h_nz
Date Posted: May 05 2021 at 09:23
Originally posted by jude111 jude111 wrote:

I was really into Floyd when it came out, and I was initially quite disappointed. But I did grow to love it after a few years. I understand it's not most people's cup of tea. Curiously, when Marillion's Brave came out, I heard it as a continuation of that sound, so it would seem to have a bit of an influence.

On the other hand, I never got the love for Amused to Death, while I thought Is This the Life We Really Want to be the best Floyd-related album since The Wall. I guess on all these counts I'm in the minority.

Not on all counts. I agree with Is This The Life...? being the best Floyd-related album since The Wall. 👍🏻



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https://tinyurl.com/nickhnz-tpa" rel="nofollow - Reviewer for The Progressive Aspect


Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: May 05 2021 at 19:55
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

^ Yeah, I think that was one of Gilmour's complaints about the album. He thought that if the songs weren't enough to be on The Wall, then why should be good enough for the new album. However, as far as I'm concerned, there are a few songs that would have been a great addition on The Wall album.


Hi,

Some of the stuff that was in that album was actually a part of the original WALL which had about 15 minutes taken out ... presumably to make sure that all of it could fit into 2 albums!

If you take the story material from that album, you will find that they fit into the story of the original ... and Roger never really explained that, and I do not think he will ... he knows that the story got screwed up, but he's not going to say that the record company told them they had to make sure it fit 2 albums!

There is just too much ... hidden that we can not see!


I actually have an ITunes list with my favourite songs from The Final Cut mixed into The Wall (my favourites from it), and they indeed fit perfectly together.


Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: May 05 2021 at 20:01
Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Originally posted by jude111 jude111 wrote:

I was really into Floyd when it came out, and I was initially quite disappointed. But I did grow to love it after a few years. I understand it's not most people's cup of tea. Curiously, when Marillion's Brave came out, I heard it as a continuation of that sound, so it would seem to have a bit of an influence.

On the other hand, I never got the love for Amused to Death, while I thought Is This the Life We Really Want to be the best Floyd-related album since The Wall. I guess on all these counts I'm in the minority.


Not on all counts. I agree with Is This The Life...? being the best Floyd-related album since The Wall. 👍🏻



I have not really understood the love the last Waters album has got. It certainly has some Floyd elements... but it sounds like a stripped down Floyd album, taking out the instrumental sections, and it's a perfect way to show how the rest of the band would come in and make Roger's ideas and songs complete. It's like we got a second rate Sheep, a second rate Have a Cigar, and so on. As far as I'm concerned, I liked Rattle that Lock from Gilmour much better (overall, my favourite Gilmour album, actually).


Posted By: jude111
Date Posted: May 06 2021 at 10:33
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

I have not really understood the love the last Waters album has got. It certainly has some Floyd elements... but it sounds like a stripped down Floyd album, taking out the instrumental sections, and it's a perfect way to show how the rest of the band would come in and make Roger's ideas and songs complete. It's like we got a second rate Sheep, a second rate Have a Cigar, and so on. As far as I'm concerned, I liked Rattle that Lock from Gilmour much better (overall, my favourite Gilmour album, actually).

That surprises me that you don't like Waters' last album; I thought you'd have loved it.

On the other hand, I can't even listen to Rattle That Lock. That one was a massive disapointment to me, especially after On an Island was so excellent. I figured Floyd's members didn't have anything left in the tank, until I was greatly surprised by Waters' album. I just didn't expect such a brilliant return to form from Waters. I'm hoping for another album from him and Radiohead producer Nigel Godrich.


Posted By: projeKct
Date Posted: May 06 2021 at 12:49
The production on this album is... stellar !! Shocked Way ahead of its time in terms of recording quality.


Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: May 08 2021 at 00:07
Originally posted by jude111 jude111 wrote:

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

I have not really understood the love the last Waters album has got. It certainly has some Floyd elements... but it sounds like a stripped down Floyd album, taking out the instrumental sections, and it's a perfect way to show how the rest of the band would come in and make Roger's ideas and songs complete. It's like we got a second rate Sheep, a second rate Have a Cigar, and so on. As far as I'm concerned, I liked Rattle that Lock from Gilmour much better (overall, my favourite Gilmour album, actually).


That surprises me that you don't like Waters' last album; I thought you'd have loved it.

On the other hand, I can't even listen to Rattle That Lock. That one was a massive disapointment to me, especially after On an Island was so excellent. I figured Floyd's members didn't have anything left in the tank, until I was greatly surprised by Waters' album. I just didn't expect such a brilliant return to form from Waters. I'm hoping for another album from him and Radiohead producer Nigel Godrich.




For me, that Waters latest album sounds like second rate uninspired Floyd, clicking his boxes by the numbers... as far as his contributions to the band are. But just because of that, it misses the presence of David and Rick even more. As far as Rattle that Lock, yeah, I know it might not have the brilliance and spark and novelty thing other albums from any Floyd guy might have, it's just a collection of songs not trying to go by old glories nor anything... but all of those songs are beautiful and enjoyable as far as I'm concerned, while many other albums by any of them might have a greater amount of songs that I don't care about. As far as On an Island, I do consider, in theory, that it's a better album... as a whole, not as a collection of songs, but many of those songs don't stand so well by themselves, and the album is a bit too mellow, so you must be in a mood to apreciate it. Also, I like it so much better live, it just comes to a brighter life (and the addition of Wright on all the songs, as well as the Pink Floyd backing band from their last tour, actually makes it seem like a lost Floyd album). By the way, having played more (or all) of Waters last album live might have helped it a good deal; one of my favourites on the album is Picture That... but the live version just brings it to higher point, filling the sounds that were missing on the studio album... and having the rest of the songs played that way could very easily have made for a much better listening experience.


Posted By: jude111
Date Posted: May 08 2021 at 08:56
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

For me, that Waters latest album sounds like second rate uninspired Floyd, clicking his boxes by the numbers...

That was actually my impression when the singles came out prior to the album - first Deja Vu, and then Smell the Roses. They sounded lifeless to me, and I wasn't even going to bother listening to the album, but after being out for a month or two, I figured it'd give it a quick listen. And I was really surprised by how good it was. I think Waters made a mistake - Picture That should have been the first single released. The video for The Last Refugee is quite moving, so that should've been the second single.

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

As far as Rattle that Lock... all of those songs are beautiful and enjoyable as far as I'm concerned, while many other albums by any of them might have a greater amount of songs that I don't care about. As far as On an Island, I do consider, in theory, that it's a better album... as a whole, not as a collection of songs, but many of those songs don't stand so well by themselves, and the album is a bit too mellow, so you must be in a mood to appreciate it.

What I love about On an Island are those first two songs, The Blue and the title track. Those are so good, that it hardly matters to me that the rest isn't up to that level. (As for the rest, I really only listen to Smile and Where We Start from time to time.) I guess I've set my standards much lower, because if there's one or two great songs, then I'm happy LOL (But that Waters album holds up as a complete album experience, which is why I rate it so high.) 

I'll try again with Rattle That Lock, but I've just not been able to like it. Everything about it is so un-Floyd like, from the tunes to the production. I guess that was his intention. (I really dislike the production.) I actually prefer the new song he released last year. Did you hear it, by the way? It's almost a cross between the two albums:



Posted By: tdfloyd
Date Posted: May 09 2021 at 19:44

The Final Cut is a very good album.  Its dark, without any light, its depressing but tells the story that Waters wanted to tell.  The production is stellar, and I really like the sparse orchestrations.  Its definitely related to The Wall, but it doesn't have those great rock songs.  An acquired taste for some, but I always liked it very much.  It is step below the best of PF but it definitely works for me. 

The album for me that is overrated is Amused to Death.  Again, Waters had a lot to say, but by that time, the Waters formula was wearing thin on me.  The Ballad of Bill Hubbard gets me every time and What God Wants Part 3 is the best track here.  But its the reusing of the same idea multiple times that drags this album down a bit for me.  And I'm in the camp that really likes Waters last album.  His best solo in my book.




Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: May 09 2021 at 20:47
Originally posted by jude111 jude111 wrote:

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

For me, that Waters latest album sounds like second rate uninspired Floyd, clicking his boxes by the numbers...


That was actually my impression when the singles came out prior to the album - first Deja Vu, and then Smell the Roses. They sounded lifeless to me, and I wasn't even going to bother listening to the album, but after being out for a month or two, I figured it'd give it a quick listen. And I was really surprised by how good it was. I think Waters made a mistake - Picture That should have been the first single released. The video for The Last Refugee is quite moving, so that should've been the second single.

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

As far as Rattle that Lock... all of those songs are beautiful and enjoyable as far as I'm concerned, while many other albums by any of them might have a greater amount of songs that I don't care about. As far as On an Island, I do consider, in theory, that it's a better album... as a whole, not as a collection of songs, but many of those songs don't stand so well by themselves, and the album is a bit too mellow, so you must be in a mood to appreciate it.

What I love about On an Island are those first two songs, The Blue and the title track. Those are so good, that it hardly matters to me that the rest isn't up to that level. (As for the rest, I really only listen to Smile and Where We Start from time to time.) I guess I've set my standards much lower, because if there's one or two great songs, then I'm happy LOL (But that Waters album holds up as a complete album experience, which is why I rate it so high.) 

I'll try again with Rattle That Lock, but I've just not been able to like it. Everything about it is so un-Floyd like, from the tunes to the production. I guess that was his intention. (I really dislike the production.) I actually prefer the new song he released last year. Did you hear it, by the way? It's almost a cross between the two albums:






Perhaps we will just not agree. That last Gilmour song did nothing for me... though I might just as well listen to it again. However, at least I do agree that the first songs from On an Island are the best there (though I also like Take a Breath and This Heaven from it very well)... and once again, all of them are better on their live versions. And talking about best songs, for me the one on Rattle that Lock that stands out is In Any Tongue.


Posted By: TheLionOfPrague
Date Posted: May 13 2021 at 19:26
It's a great album. The Gunner's Dream, The Fletcher Memorial Home and the title track are fantastic, as good as some of their best material. 

I prefer The Division Bell when it comes to late Floyd though. 


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I shook my head and smiled a whisper knowing all about the place


Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: June 08 2021 at 07:29
What TFC really misses is some Richard Wright, otherwise it would have been a great Floyd album.
But if you start from Southampton Dock until the title track, that's a true Pink Floyd epic.
 


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Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.
My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com


Posted By: Progishness
Date Posted: June 08 2021 at 07:36
Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

What TFC really misses is some Richard Wright, otherwise it would have been a great Floyd album.
But if you start from Southampton Dock until the title track, that's a true Pink Floyd epic.
 


Yup, and The Wall also suffers to an extent from what I term 'lack of Rick' - his keyboards have always been an integral part of the classic Floydian sound, probably as much so as DG's guitar (not to mention the Waters-Mason rhythm section underpinning everything).


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"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."
- Douglas Adams, Mostly Harmless


Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: June 08 2021 at 10:14
Originally posted by Progishness Progishness wrote:

Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

What TFC really misses is some Richard Wright, otherwise it would have been a great Floyd album.
But if you start from Southampton Dock until the title track, that's a true Pink Floyd epic.
 


Yup, and The Wall also suffers to an extent from what I term 'lack of Rick' - his keyboards have always been an integral part of the classic Floydian sound, probably as much so as DG's guitar (not to mention the Waters-Mason rhythm section underpinning everything).
It's clear that they were more than the sum of the parts. Years ago I went to a gig of Australian Pink Floyd and they opened it with "Learning To Fly". At the end of the song a friend and I had the same reaction: better than the studio version or any live version played by the true Pink Floyd!
The reason? The bassist played it as Waters would have probably done if he were in the band. 

Same for another cover band: Pink Floyd Legend playing The Final Cut (the whole album) with a Wright-oriented keyboardist. I'm sure that even The Pros and Cons of Hitch-Hiking would have sounded much better with Gilmour, Mason and Wright onboard.


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Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.
My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com


Posted By: Progishness
Date Posted: June 08 2021 at 10:26
^'Pros and Cons' is the one Waters album I cannot make head or tale of - for me it falls into the category of 'is it an under appreciated work of obscure genius, or is it pretentious tripe?'.  Radio KAOS and the stuff he did for 'When the Wind Blows' are a massive improvement (IMO), and Amused to Death probably his best solo work by far. His most recent album tho sounded to me like a box ticking exercise.


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"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."
- Douglas Adams, Mostly Harmless


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: June 09 2021 at 09:59
Pros and Cons could have been a good PF album if Gilmour was involved and had more input, and Wright was still on board. But they weren't so it's not. Same deal with the Final Cut.

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Posted By: Progishness
Date Posted: June 09 2021 at 10:16
I do like TFC, tho when recently listened to it for the first time in a while it did strike me how much it is practically a Roger solo album in all but name.


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"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."
- Douglas Adams, Mostly Harmless


Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: June 09 2021 at 10:23
Originally posted by Progishness Progishness wrote:

I do like TFC, tho when recently listened to it for the first time in a while it did strike me how much it is practically a Roger solo album in all but name.
I may be wrong, but if TFC was released as a Waters solo album it would have been better received. Perhaps even hailed.

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Posted By: Progishness
Date Posted: June 09 2021 at 10:29
... but without Gilmour and Mason?


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"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."
- Douglas Adams, Mostly Harmless



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