Long-running bands ambitious adventurous debuts
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Topic: Long-running bands ambitious adventurous debuts
Posted By: Logan
Subject: Long-running bands ambitious adventurous debuts
Date Posted: June 14 2021 at 10:15
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Which long-running "Prog" (included in PA's prog categories) band with quite a few releases released a truly ambitious and adventurous debut album according to you that you wish to mention? I'll mention Magma with Kobaïa. Magma came onto the scene so to speak releasing a sort of concept double-album sung in a made-up language (more for the sound). I also consider the music to be adventurous (it would be pretty out there for many). It's actually my favourite Magma album. Here is the opening track: I'm not sure where best to place this topic (if anyone should know this, I should) as I'm not asking for lists, I'm asking for people to highlight and say something about a specific debut album that they think fits the bill. A list of one, anyway. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Various music I am very into: a youtube playlist with two tracks per act |
Replies:
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: June 14 2021 at 10:37
In the Court of King Crimson is the first band that comes to mind. 
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: June 14 2021 at 10:38
Hard to argue with that pick. :) ------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Various music I am very into: a youtube playlist with two tracks per act |
Psychedelic Paul wrote:Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: June 14 2021 at 10:39
Marillion - Script for a Jester's Tear 
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: June 14 2021 at 10:41
And that one may be a little easier to argue with.  ------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Various music I am very into: a youtube playlist with two tracks per act |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: June 14 2021 at 10:42
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Just off the top of my head. The most adventurous debuts i can think of now are... CORRECTION: Sorry i seemed to have ignored the Long running band part. Oh well, here's my list King Crimson - ITKOTKC Magma - Kobaia Frank Zappa - Freak Out Mahavishnu Orchestra - The Inner Mounting Flame Mr Bungle - S/T Mike Oldfield - Tubular Bells Museo Rosenbach - Zarathustra Semiramus - Dedicato to Frazz Opeth - Orchid Hatfield and the North - S/T Area - Arbeit Macht Frei Cardiacs - The Seaside Univers Zero - 1313 Birds and Buildings - Bantam to Behemoth Henry Cow - Legend Mars Volta - Deloused In The Comatorium Supersister - Present From Nancy Brainstorm - S/T Moving Gelatine Plates - S/T Comus - First Utterance Yezda Urfa - Boris A.R. & Machines - Die gruene Reise Aksak Maboul - Onze danses pour combattre la migraine
Amon Duul II - Phallus Dei Cornucopia - Full Horn Gnidrolog - In Spite of Harry's Toe Nail Island - Pictures Jean Louis - S/T Marsupilami - S/T The Muffins - Manna / Mirage National Health - S/T Picchio dal Pozzo - S/T Psychotic Waltz - A Social Grace Q'uq'umatz - Tepeu Ron Thal - The Adventures of Bumblefoot Matthias IA Eklundh - Freak Guitar Silberbart - 4 Times Sound Razing Sleepytime Gorilla Museum - Grand Opening and Closing Steve Hillage - Fish Rising Tortilla Flat - Fur ein 3/5 Stundchen -------------  https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: June 14 2021 at 10:48
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Yeah, I probably did misplace this, as I was just hoping for a list of one with some commentary about it (was thinking highlight one album per participant -- I should have been clearer). I also thought about making it about mentioning more than one, and wrote a paragraph about Univers Zero's debut, then deleted it, as I wanted to avoid what are sometimes called laundry list type topics. That said, it's a great list and those appropriate ones are well-worth considering. I have the vast majority of those in my collection. I guess that comes with being part of the panhead brigade. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Various music I am very into: a youtube playlist with two tracks per act |
Posted By: Hrychu
Date Posted: June 14 2021 at 11:29
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TFK - Back in the World of Adventures Amazing album. The songs that bookend the album (World of Adventures and Big Puzzle) are incredible. ------------- Bez pierdolenia sygnał zerwie, to w realia wychodź w hełmie! |
Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: June 15 2021 at 18:19
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When I read the topic the first album that came to mind for some reason was Chicago's debut. So adventerous before they eventually went commercial. ------------- "The wind is slowly tearing her apart" "Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN |
Posted By: Sacro_Porgo
Date Posted: June 15 2021 at 21:30
It's a dead heat between Rush and Genesis! ------------- Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :) |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: June 16 2021 at 00:00
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I wonder if people on this thread are being serious Serious answer possibly ELP's debut Bartok (Hendrix style), new age, psychedelic rock , classical, jazz and pop with a moog synth blitz to finish with. All bets off baby!!
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Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: June 16 2021 at 03:06
Hmm I think you're right Richard, Rush? Good call with ELP though.
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: June 16 2021 at 03:35
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Queen ELP King Crimson Moody Blues (if we discount The Magnificent Moodies) Pink Floyd ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Hiram
Date Posted: June 16 2021 at 11:25
| Can - Monster Movie for sure! Even though they made better albums later, Monster Movie was something unheard of before I think. |
Posted By: AlanB
Date Posted: June 16 2021 at 12:42
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Transatlantic - SMPTe Wishbone Ash -s/t
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: June 16 2021 at 13:14
That's one I had in mind when I made this topic, and I love that album. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Various music I am very into: a youtube playlist with two tracks per act |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: June 16 2021 at 14:00
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Hi, Not considered progressive, but I really think that The Moody Blues DAYS OF FUTURE PASSED, is one album that really stood out at the time with the orchestral things and then style. And this goes way back, to something that in the end, we added and called it "symphonic" within the progressive notion. ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: nick_h_nz
Date Posted: June 16 2021 at 14:25
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Mental Notes by Split Enz is a fabulous debut, that for many years was little known outside New Zealand, as the Mental Notes album most people knew was the slightly neutered and toned down second album (known as Second Thoughts in NZ). I remember playing an English friend who thought he knew the album, the actual album and he was amazed. ------------- https://tinyurl.com/nickhnz-tpa" rel="nofollow - Reviewer for The Progressive Aspect |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: June 16 2021 at 15:23
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I normally like the second and later albums more than the debut, maturing a bit helps. Anyway, two from the same department (krauty electronics) come to mind. Tangerine Dream's and Kraftwerk's debut are maybe not their best albums but both quite adventurous and cool. |
Posted By: Steve Wyzard
Date Posted: June 16 2021 at 15:59
| I immediately thought of the first Saga album from 1978. |
Posted By: TCat
Date Posted: June 16 2021 at 18:38
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Ambrosia's debut album was quite ambitious, especially considering they could never follow it up with anything even close to it. It's still one of my favorite albums. But they did have help from Alan Parsons before he helped out with Dark Side of the Moon. ------------- https://ibb.co/8x0xjR0" rel="nofollow">  |
Posted By: iluvmarillion
Date Posted: June 16 2021 at 23:37
Second Thoughts was a dreadful misfire. Difficult situation when you lose your main guitarist. However that's additional argument why the band should have resisted the temptation to record their debut album again.
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Posted By: iluvmarillion
Date Posted: June 16 2021 at 23:45
| "The Light" by Spock's Beard. Bands were doing all sorts of adventurous things in the earlier 70's. However not much was happening in 1995 when Spock's Band recorded the album. Epic tracks in the 90's wasn't the norm. They didn't just imitate what prog bands were doing in the 70's. They added an original touch to bands like Gentle Giant and Kansas. |
Posted By: nick_h_nz
Date Posted: June 17 2021 at 00:46
Yes and no. Without Manzanera at the helm, and flying their flag, Split Enz may never have made it. And while the re-recorded songs from Mental Notes are inferior in every way to the originals, there are still some neat songs on there, that I’m glad made it onto an album. As for lead guitar, Phil Judd played it before Wally Wilkinson joined the band, and after they fired him, Judd took the role back on. So I don’t think not having Wilkinson onboard was a great loss. It’s hard to know what might have happened if Manzanera hadn’t somewhat “adopted” Split Enz. They likely wouldn’t have gone to the UK when they did, and because of all the changes that wrought within the band, perhaps Phil Judd might not have felt so much pressure, and might not have left the band when he did. If he didn’t leave, Neil Finn wouldn’t have joined when he did, and the whole future of Split Enz would be very different at that point. It’s too much a game of “what ifs” for me to wonder what might have happened if Second Thoughts wasn’t released (as Mental Notes) effectively debuting the band internationally. And, while I’m not a fan of the re-recorded songs from (the original) Mental Notes, I do still enjoy much of Second Thoughts. It’s far from being my least-favourite Split Enz album. You call Second Thoughts a misfire, and, similarly, I have heard many people describe it as a backwards step. For me, it’s more of a sideways step. It’s undeniably a very important album in the history of the band, and very much changed the course the band was taking (hence my thinking of it a sideways step), but if it’s a misfire, it definitely didn’t blow up band’s faces…. ------------- https://tinyurl.com/nickhnz-tpa" rel="nofollow - Reviewer for The Progressive Aspect |
Posted By: iluvmarillion
Date Posted: June 17 2021 at 01:07
| Do you know why Wally Wilkinson was fired? Certainly a better electric guitarist than Phil Judd. Thanks for the additional information. |
Posted By: nick_h_nz
Date Posted: June 17 2021 at 01:17
Wally was originally brought into the band because Phil Judd was aware that he wasn’t as proficient on electric guitar. From what I’ve read in the past (and I have no idea of its veracity), Wally was fired because the rest of the band unanimously found his guitar playing “less than satisfactory”, while in the meantime, Phil had been working on his electric guitar playing, and was more confident. I’m definitely not of the opinion that Wally’s playing was “less than satisfactory”, and wonder if it was merely the new boy not gelling so well with the rest of the band. Regardless, he was fired, and it probably wasn’t a great decision by the band. But again, if he hadn’t been fired, there would have been no place for Neil Finn, once Phil left the band, so…… 🤷🏻♂️ ------------- https://tinyurl.com/nickhnz-tpa" rel="nofollow - Reviewer for The Progressive Aspect |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: June 18 2021 at 01:29
good call on Spock's Beard not just 'copying'. I remember being very underwhelmed though when I first heard them on radio and it felt too 'safe' and not complex enough , but years later I understand they were going somewhere new. maybe Echolyn's debut may also fall into the same category , I say 'maybe' because I've not heard it! |
Posted By: Rick1
Date Posted: June 18 2021 at 02:09
| In general, I think most debut albums - if the band has some artistic control - tend to be good 'statements of intent' almost by definition. The harder answer is to find the debuts that don't fit into this category - 'From Genesis to Revelation' is a more obvious one... |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: June 18 2021 at 02:46
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NEU’s selftitled debut is the one I first thought of. It’s not that often albums are made that sound like nothing else before it. On the surface of things it actually feels simple almost akin to the naive. The music sounds like it’s being poured out of a bucket. Streaming with a naturalness to it that somewhat deceives the underlying stuff happening in the music. I think many new to this music struggle with this element of the music...but once you pass that you realise how much is happening all around it. Franco Battiato’s Fetus also feels like a huge mouthfull for a debut. The cover art alone screams ‘different’...certainly in a Catholic country like Italy. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Hiram
Date Posted: June 18 2021 at 11:46
| Good call on Neu! and a great description of their music. I thought of mentioning them along with Can in my earlier post, but figured they might not be "long-running" enough. |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: June 18 2021 at 13:08
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I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Yes yet! Not as brilliant or as innovative as ITCOTCK perhaps, but it helped launch one of the best prog phenomena in history. From Wikipedia: "Beyond and Before" was written by Squire and Clive Bailey, former singer and guitarist in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mabel_Greers_Toyshop" rel="nofollow - Mabel Greer's Toyshop , the rock band that was a precursor to Yes. The band would open their live shows with this tune, which features three-part harmonies. Years later, Banks was still unsure as to what the lyrics meant yet suggested they were "drug induced". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yes_%28Yes_album%29#cite_note-FOOTNOTEWelch200860-7" rel="nofollow - [7] Squire described it as "one of those https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_rock" rel="nofollow - acid rock kind of songs" with its psychedelic lyrics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yes_%28Yes_album%29#cite_note-FOOTNOTEMorse199613-11" rel="nofollow - [11] "I See You" is a cover version of the original performed by American rock band https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Byrds" rel="nofollow - the Byrds . Banks was disappointed with the version recorded for the album as he later recognized the mistakes on it. The instrumental section with the guitar solo was often stretched for several minutes when performed live, sometimes ending in Banks throwing his guitar in the air and banging it on stage. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yes_%28Yes_album%29#cite_note-FOOTNOTEMorse199613-11" rel="nofollow - [11] "Yesterday and Today" was one of the tracks recorded at Trident Studios and features Bruford playing the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibraphone" rel="nofollow - vibraphone , despite telling the band he can play the instrument and Banks remembering the drummer getting nervous when it came to recording. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yes_%28Yes_album%29#cite_note-FOOTNOTEWelch200859-3" rel="nofollow - [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yes_%28Yes_album%29#cite_note-FOOTNOTEMorse199613-11" rel="nofollow - [11] "Looking Around" remained one of Squire's favourite tracks on the album. When it came to recording it, the band had some difficulties with its pitching as they were unsure on what key the song was in. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yes_%28Yes_album%29#cite_note-FOOTNOTEMorse199614-12" rel="nofollow - [12] "Harold Land" got its title from Bruford, who recalled someone asking out loud what the track should be called. "I remember somebody saying ... 'I want to write a song about a man called...' and I said, 'Harold Land' as I walked through the room". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yes_%28Yes_album%29#cite_note-FOOTNOTEWelch200859-3" rel="nofollow - [3] The song is named after https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Land" rel="nofollow - Harold Land , an American tenor saxophonist, yet the song's lyrics deal with the effects of war on the named character. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yes_%28Yes_album%29#cite_note-FOOTNOTEWelch200859-3" rel="nofollow - [3] The album's second cover version is " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Every_Little_Thing_%28Beatles_song%29" rel="nofollow - Every Little Thing " by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beatles" rel="nofollow - the Beatles . Squire did not realise how much he liked the band's version until he turned on the radio after performing at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madison_Square_Garden" rel="nofollow - Madison Square Garden in New York City in 1984 and liked the instrumentation, failing to recognise it was the band's version being played until Anderson's voice was heard. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yes_%28Yes_album%29#cite_note-FOOTNOTEMorse199614-12" rel="nofollow - [12] "Sweetness" was the first song that Anderson and Squire collaborated on following their initial meeting. It is featured in the comedy drama film https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_66" rel="nofollow - Buffalo '66 (1998), the first film with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_Gallo" rel="nofollow - Vincent Gallo as director. "Survival" was a song that had contributions from the whole band, but it was not worked on fully due to the limited time they had to finish the album. It later became bothersome for Bruford due to its ecology-inspired lyrics and "drippy" melody. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yes_%28Yes_album%29#cite_note-FOOTNOTEMorse199615-13" rel="nofollow - [13] ------------- I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!! |
Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: June 18 2021 at 14:50
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Steve Hackett with Voyage of the Acolyte, combines both mystecisme, crispy instrumentation, lush atmosphere, pastoral flair, majestic, sensitive, boysterous ambition and a will to express freedom in a very pallatable and felt way. It feels like a true metamorphesis from Steve, releasing hes creative energy into a personal and collaborative sensation -------------  
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Posted By: The Anders
Date Posted: June 18 2021 at 17:05
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It will have to be Faust - Faust (1971) It's insane...
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Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: June 18 2021 at 23:37
Great list right here!  ------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: June 19 2021 at 02:00
Thanks. Yeah I guess long-running is somewhat of an open concept...but they did do material after the 70s  Anders mentioned another one I didn’t immediately think of, which is odd, but the Faust debut is a wild first record. A bull in a China shop or perhaps more befitting; a severe case of peyote intoxication at the local music school for gifted kids. Oh almost forgot! How about something like the Electric Light Orchestra debut? I think it is fairly adventurous feeling considering the path they went down later on. That’s not to say that their more well-known albums and hits are poor. Just an observation. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: essexboyinwales
Date Posted: June 19 2021 at 02:50
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I have to nominate IQ, as The Last Human Gateway was certainly a statement of intent on TFTLA... Also the King's X and Dream Theater debuts were and still are amazing😎 |