Print Page | Close Window

Everything You Need to Know About Prog Rock

Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Music Lounge
Forum Description: General progressive music discussions
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=127057
Printed Date: May 16 2022 at 04:56
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Everything You Need to Know About Prog Rock
Posted By: Progishness
Subject: Everything You Need to Know About Prog Rock
Date Posted: August 17 2021 at 06:45
Everything You Need to Know About Prog Rock, according to Discogs.

Quite an interesting read.

https://blog.discogs.com/en/prog-rock-genre-music-essential-history-guide/" rel="nofollow - https://blog.discogs.com/en/prog-rock-genre-music-essential-history-guide/


-------------
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."
- Douglas Adams, Mostly Harmless



Replies:
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: August 17 2021 at 06:48
Very nice intro to somebody who's not familiar with the genre. Everything? No, but a good intro.


Posted By: Progressive Enjoyer
Date Posted: August 17 2021 at 06:53
It's a really nice look into progressive-rock, but it seems to focus somewaht on the English scene, leaving out people from the american scene like Zappa and Beefhart. Good intro though Smile.


-------------
"You know what you are, you don't give a damn" Peter Gabriel


Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: August 17 2021 at 06:58
I surely didn't know everything about prog rock that I needed to know. For sure I didn't know that two of the ten "essential prog rock albums" were made by  Cressida and Fantasy. Ouch


Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: August 17 2021 at 07:30
Originally posted by Progishness Progishness wrote:

Everything You Need to Know About Prog Rock, according to Discogs.

Quite an interesting read.

https://blog.discogs.com/en/prog-rock-genre-music-essential-history-guide/" rel="nofollow - https://blog.discogs.com/en/prog-rock-genre-music-essential-history-guide/
Thanks! That was a fascinating introduction to the world of Prog Rock and it was interesting to note that "Technically, the origins of Progressive Rock lay in Jazz", so that settles the long-running debate over whether or not Miles Davis should be included in the hallowed halls of Prog Archives. Smile

It's also good to see that two of my all-time favourite albums by Cressida and Fantasy are listed as two out of the ten most essential prog albums of all time. Thumbs Up Clap


Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: August 17 2021 at 08:02
That's actually rather pisspoor. No mention of Frank Zappa and the Mothers of Invention and not even one reference to the Canterbury Scene.

Also no kudos to the experimental electronic music from the 1950s and completely left out the German Krautrock scene as well.

Thumbs down


-------------

https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy


Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: August 17 2021 at 08:39
I don't think it has ever been translated into English, but the book "PROG" by Donato Zoppo, an Italian journalist and reviewer is the most complete and well-done history of the genre that I've read.
Nothing to do with that blog thing, and also good for newbies.


-------------
Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.
My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com


Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: August 17 2021 at 08:45
So Rush are neo-prog and A Passion Play is an essential prog album but Thick As A Brick isn't?


Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: August 17 2021 at 08:46
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

That's actually rather pisspoor. No mention of Frank Zappa and the Mothers of Invention and not even one reference to the Canterbury Scene.

It does mention Caravan and Egg.


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: August 17 2021 at 08:54
Hi,

I really do not think that all of Progressive Music is about indulgence. I'm of the opinion that the person that wrote that was simply trying to find something to say to get our attention.

All the arts, in their history have always had some form of what many considered indulgence, but it was never a fair comment, when the artist did it again and again, and it became an expression.

It could be said, by those around Mozart in the courts specially that they would think of his work as indulgent ... but 50 years later and certainly today no one really looks at him as indulgent!

Poor start and just another fan speaking out on social media like situation. Sad, because we will never elevte our music beyond the pop idiocy that it is described with.


-------------
... none of the hits, none of the time ... favoritism is not an artistic merit! www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: Progishness
Date Posted: August 17 2021 at 10:01
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Thanks! That was a fascinating introduction to the world of Prog Rock and it was interesting to note that "Technically, the origins of Progressive Rock lay in Jazz", so that settles the long-running debate over whether or not Miles Davis should be included in the hallowed halls of Prog Archives. Smile


Damn, I've lived under a misapprehension for the past several decades in thinking prog's main roots were 60's psychedelia.


-------------
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."
- Douglas Adams, Mostly Harmless


Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: August 17 2021 at 10:17
Originally posted by Progishness Progishness wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Thanks! That was a fascinating introduction to the world of Prog Rock and it was interesting to note that "Technically, the origins of Progressive Rock lay in Jazz", so that settles the long-running debate over whether or not Miles Davis should be included in the hallowed halls of Prog Archives. Smile


Damn, I've lived under a misapprehension for the past several decades in thinking prog's main roots were 60's psychedelia.

well, a lot of prog is rooted in psychedelia. You are not wrong. 


Posted By: TCat
Date Posted: August 17 2021 at 10:42
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Progishness Progishness wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Thanks! That was a fascinating introduction to the world of Prog Rock and it was interesting to note that "Technically, the origins of Progressive Rock lay in Jazz", so that settles the long-running debate over whether or not Miles Davis should be included in the hallowed halls of Prog Archives. Smile


Damn, I've lived under a misapprehension for the past several decades in thinking prog's main roots were 60's psychedelia.

well, a lot of prog is rooted in psychedelia. You are not wrong. 

The thing that makes prog what it is, is that it comes from all kinds of influences; rock, psychedelia, jazz, classical, world music, folk music, etc, etc, etc.  That's what makes it progressive is combining all of these influences, and then throwing in unpredictability and new ideas in composition and instrumentation.  The article mentions some of this, but then fails to include artists and albums that take influences from a lot of these influences.  A lot of people do the same thing.  That's why there are so many opinions about what makes music prog and what doesn't.  


-------------
https://ibb.co/8x0xjR0" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: August 17 2021 at 10:54
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

That's actually rather pisspoor. No mention of Frank Zappa and the Mothers of Invention and not even one reference to the Canterbury Scene.

It does mention Caravan and Egg.


A good analysis would explain how Soft Machine and Caravan were instrumental in the prog scene

Mentioning a band or two out of context is lazy

-------------

https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy


Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: August 17 2021 at 11:08
"...progressive rock is about musical indulgence."

Probably about as simple of a definition as I've seen.  


-------------
I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!!


Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: August 17 2021 at 11:14
Originally posted by Progishness Progishness wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Thanks! That was a fascinating introduction to the world of Prog Rock and it was interesting to note that "Technically, the origins of Progressive Rock lay in Jazz", so that settles the long-running debate over whether or not Miles Davis should be included in the hallowed halls of Prog Archives. Smile


Damn, I've lived under a misapprehension for the past several decades in thinking prog's main roots were 60's psychedelia.
No, you're absolutely right - prog's main roots were 60's psychedelia, but it depends how far back you want to go. After all, several classical composers could have been modern-day prog musicians..... For instance:- Grieg's Hall of the Mountain King, Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition, Ravel's Bolero & Prokofiev's Romeo & Juliet suite have all now become prog epics. Smile


Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: August 17 2021 at 11:42
I took a look at this, and much gets glossed over and neglected, which makes me realise how big a world "everything" you need to know about prog rock really is.
           That is just my feeling on it, as one of my feet is in the "known world" of progressive music, with another foot planted just as firmly in the appreciation of obscure and overlooked artists.


Posted By: Progishness
Date Posted: August 17 2021 at 11:44
Originally posted by TCat TCat wrote:


The thing that makes prog what it is, is that it comes from all kinds of influences; rock, psychedelia, jazz, classical, world music, folk music, etc, etc, etc.  That's what makes it progressive is combining all of these influences, and then throwing in unpredictability and new ideas in composition and instrumentation.  The article mentions some of this, but then fails to include artists and albums that take influences from a lot of these influences.  A lot of people do the same thing.  That's why there are so many opinions about what makes music prog and what doesn't.  


Exactly, same as the rock and roll of the 1950's evolved out of jump blues, with strong influences from jazz, R&B, country, gospel, country, swing, boogie-woogie  etc.


-------------
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."
- Douglas Adams, Mostly Harmless


Posted By: Progishness
Date Posted: August 17 2021 at 11:46
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by Progishness Progishness wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Thanks! That was a fascinating introduction to the world of Prog Rock and it was interesting to note that "Technically, the origins of Progressive Rock lay in Jazz", so that settles the long-running debate over whether or not Miles Davis should be included in the hallowed halls of Prog Archives. Smile


Damn, I've lived under a misapprehension for the past several decades in thinking prog's main roots were 60's psychedelia.
No, you're absolutely right - prog's main roots were 60's psychedelia, but it depends how far back you want to go. After all, several classical composers could have been modern-day prog musicians..... For instance:- Grieg's Hall of the Mountain King, Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition, Ravel's Bolero & Prokofiev's Romeo & Juliet suite have all now become prog epics. Smile


I'd also chuck Stockhausen and Cage into that mix, along with other avant-garde 20th century composers.


-------------
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."
- Douglas Adams, Mostly Harmless


Posted By: Progishness
Date Posted: August 17 2021 at 11:47
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

"...progressive rock is about musical indulgence."

Probably about as simple of a definition as I've seen.  


I sometimes define prog as 'music you endure and enjoy in equal measures'.


-------------
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."
- Douglas Adams, Mostly Harmless


Posted By: Sacro_Porgo
Date Posted: August 17 2021 at 12:27
Interesting read, but aside from those rarities listed at the end, nothing really new for anyone who's already a pretty decent prog fan. Might be a good introduction for someone getting their feet wet though.

I will say, they incorrectly listed Hipgnosis as the artist on Rush's Hemispheres. Any major Rush fan knows Hugh Syme has done all their album covers from Caress Of Steel through the present. But any article on a major website attempting to cover that much ground is bound to have mistakes.


-------------
Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :)


Posted By: Sacro_Porgo
Date Posted: August 17 2021 at 12:31
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,

I really do not think that all of Progressive Music is about indulgence. I'm of the opinion that the person that wrote that was simply trying to find something to say to get our attention.

All the arts, in their history have always had some form of what many considered indulgence, but it was never a fair comment, when the artist did it again and again, and it became an expression.

It could be said, by those around Mozart in the courts specially that they would think of his work as indulgent ... but 50 years later and certainly today no one really looks at him as indulgent!

Poor start and just another fan speaking out on social media like situation. Sad, because we will never elevte our music beyond the pop idiocy that it is described with.

I don't find myself agreeing with you often, but yeah "indulgence" definitely caught my eye in the wrong way. Prog is art. It can be about "indulgence," but even Rush sounded pretty tongue in cheek when they gave that subtitle to La Villa Stangiato. 


-------------
Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :)


Posted By: Sacro_Porgo
Date Posted: August 17 2021 at 12:32
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

That's actually rather pisspoor. No mention of Frank Zappa and the Mothers of Invention and not even one reference to the Canterbury Scene.

It does mention Caravan and Egg.


A good analysis would explain how Soft Machine and Caravan were instrumental in the prog scene

Mentioning a band or two out of context is lazy

Instrumental? I thought they had vocals!


Wink


-------------
Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :)


Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: August 17 2021 at 12:39
Originally posted by Sacro_Porgo Sacro_Porgo wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

That's actually rather pisspoor. No mention of Frank Zappa and the Mothers of Invention and not even one reference to the Canterbury Scene.

It does mention Caravan and Egg.


A good analysis would explain how Soft Machine and Caravan were instrumental in the prog scene

Mentioning a band or two out of context is lazy


Instrumental? I thought they had vocals!


Wink


Heehee

-------------

https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: August 18 2021 at 09:19
Originally posted by Sacro_Porgo Sacro_Porgo wrote:

...
I don't find myself agreeing with you often, but yeah "indulgence" definitely caught my eye in the wrong way. Prog is art.
... 

Hi,

Thx. My biggest worry with the identification with "songs", is that it is not exactly looked at as "art", unless, of course (how van we miss that?) it is a huge number one song in all the polls from here to the moon!

While I believe that many folks, even here, are really well versed in the quantity and quality of the music, my concern is that an article like that can not even look at BANCO and realize ... wait a minute ... there is no indulgence there! And even AD2, which was different in almost every album. Their indulgence? Not giving a damn about what we thought which is an artist's prerogative.

Thus I look at all the music as valuable and important, not just a song that got a number 55 years ago, and that we NOW think was indulgent. I don't think that term will go far in  the annals of music history!


-------------
... none of the hits, none of the time ... favoritism is not an artistic merit! www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: The Anders
Date Posted: August 18 2021 at 09:28
No mention of Italian prog?


Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: August 18 2021 at 10:09
It's a noble attempt to create a coehesive mini-history of prog but just doesn't capture the magnanimous and diverse nature of prog's origins.


-------------

https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy


Posted By: miamiscot
Date Posted: August 19 2021 at 12:19
Not bad. Not great. The writer probably did a better job than I could have done!!!

-------------
Prog's Not Dead


Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: September 01 2021 at 15:12
Meh. It seems to be a bit light on anything past the seventies. Also, that's the first time I've seen the Enid referred to as "neo prog."

-------------
When you list all the qualities that you despise and you realize you're describing yourself



Print Page | Close Window

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Copyright ©2001-2014 Web Wiz Ltd. - http://www.webwiz.co.uk