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Top Drumming Performances of the 2010s?

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Topic: Top Drumming Performances of the 2010s?
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Subject: Top Drumming Performances of the 2010s?
Date Posted: November 09 2021 at 17:18
In further review of the 2010s, what drumming performances from 20teens album releases really stand out for you? I definitely think of several of Antoine Fafard's album releases--the ones with Vinnie Colaiuta, Simon Phillips, Gary Husband, Todd Sucherman, and Gavin Harrison--stand out for me pretty immediately. Any for you?




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Drew Fisher
https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/



Replies:
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: November 09 2021 at 17:26
When it comes to top drumming performances in the 2010s, the world of technical death metal is the pinnacle of percussive prowess.

Bands like Gorguts, Beyond Creation, Obscura, Gorod, Gigan, Pyrrhon, Portal, Nile and Ad Nauseum just to name a few blow everything else out of the water.

Haven 't even heard any jazz-fusion that can compete personally.


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Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: November 09 2021 at 17:31
For what I listen to would have to be Gavin Harrison, Mike Portnoy and Piotr Kozieradzki.

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Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: November 09 2021 at 18:44
Marco Minnemann... solo, The Aristocrats, Steven Wilson, Dewa Budjana, and many others. All superb.

Virgil Donati or Simon Phillips next in line.


Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: November 09 2021 at 19:13
Virgil Donati is definitely up there. Master of jazz and prog metal!



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Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: November 09 2021 at 21:12
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

When it comes to top drumming performances in the 2010s, the world of technical death metal is the pinnacle of percussive prowess.

Bands like Gorguts, Beyond Creation, Obscura, Gorod, Gigan, Pyrrhon, Portal, Nile and Ad Nauseum just to name a few blow everything else out of the water.

Haven 't even heard any jazz-fusion that can compete personally.


Yep. Put Aaron Kitcher on top of that list. Its unfortunate his drumming is accompanied by Infant Annihilator lyrics.


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Posted By: dwill123
Date Posted: November 10 2021 at 06:53
Tony Royster Jr.




Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: November 10 2021 at 06:57
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Marco Minnemann... solo, The Aristocrats, Steven Wilson, Dewa Budjana, and many others. All superb.

Virgil Donati or Simon Phillips next in line.
Yes. Marco is a great drummer.


Posted By: miamiscot
Date Posted: November 10 2021 at 07:30
Harrison
Mastelotto
Portnoy
Blundell
D'Virgilio

Take your pick. All five of the above are inhuman examples of greatness and true heirs to Peart, Collins, Palmer and Bruford.


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Prog's Not Dead


Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: November 10 2021 at 08:52
Does anybody have any specific songs that you can point to as examples of each drummer's prowess?





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Drew Fisher
https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/


Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: November 10 2021 at 09:09
Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

Does anybody have any specific songs that you can point to as examples of each drummer's prowess?





I could literally list hundreds of death metal drummers.

This video demonstrates some of the best and their techniques.

There's a second part if you want to explore further.




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https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy


Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: November 10 2021 at 09:30
John Longstreth of GORGUTS (2009-14) often makes the top of the list for tech death drummers. Pretty much every song is mind-blowing. This is just the first track on COLORED SANDS which was a prog metal masterpiece to many.




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Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: November 10 2021 at 12:21
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

Does anybody have any specific songs that you can point to as examples of each drummer's prowess?





I could literally list hundreds of death metal drummers.

This video demonstrates some of the best and their techniques.

There's a second part if you want to explore further.



AWESOME! Thanks, Mike!



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Drew Fisher
https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/


Posted By: Shadowyzard
Date Posted: November 10 2021 at 13:05
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

When it comes to top drumming performances in the 2010s, the world of technical death metal is the pinnacle of percussive prowess.

Bands like Gorguts, Beyond Creation, Obscura, Gorod, Gigan, Pyrrhon, Portal, Nile and Ad Nauseum just to name a few blow everything else out of the water.

Haven 't even heard any jazz-fusion that can compete personally.

I'm not normally a fan of extreme drumming. My favourite extreme metal drummer is Nicholas Barker. His compositional abilities surpassed nearly all his rivals IMO. I used past tense, as I think he was in his prime in Cradle of Filth and Dimmu Borgir. His Lock Up stuff is still cool though.

Puppy must know this guy (see the video), but it might interest others here. I think Dominator's style is not that dynamic, but his fills are like those of a fantasy anime character. Haha. 




Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: November 10 2021 at 13:21
Your internet broken?

Marco



Virgil




Posted By: Shadowyzard
Date Posted: November 10 2021 at 13:31
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Haven 't even heard any jazz-fusion that can compete personally.

I vehemently disagree with this statement BTW. Not everything is speed and endurance in music. These are not sprinters, but musicians. Here's a good example for you. This guy is unimaginably good.




Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: November 10 2021 at 15:27
^ not sure what you're disagreeing about. Of course that guy is good and many other non-metal drummers are excellent however tech death metal drummers are basically jazz drummers on steroids. Whether it suits your personal tastes or not, speed is a defining characteristic of top drumming performances along with creativity, compositional fortitude and emotional connectivity. As someone who pretty much consumes all genres of music, i'm quite familiar with most styles of drumming. As good as the guy you presented is, he's no Billy Cobham!


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https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy


Posted By: Shadowyzard
Date Posted: November 10 2021 at 15:58
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

^ not sure what you're disagreeing about. Of course that guy is good and many other non-metal drummers are excellent however tech death metal drummers are basically jazz drummers on steroids. Whether it suits your personal tastes or not, speed is a defining characteristic of top drumming performances along with creativity, compositional fortitude and emotional connectivity. As someone who pretty much consumes all genres of music, i'm quite familiar with most styles of drumming. As good as the guy you presented is, he's no Billy Cobham!

I disagree about the competition thing. This is actually funny. You also said that Malmsteen surpassed Van Halen. I "challenged" you, you admitted defeat. And then around a year later, you said the same thing. Really, this is ridiculous. Being on steroids does not equal technical prowess or superiority. Anyway, I believe this is your perception. Neither have I desire to change it, nor do I see a point in trying that.


Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: November 10 2021 at 16:23
Originally posted by Shadowyzard Shadowyzard wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

^ not sure what you're disagreeing about. Of course that guy is good and many other non-metal drummers are excellent however tech death metal drummers are basically jazz drummers on steroids. Whether it suits your personal tastes or not, speed is a defining characteristic of top drumming performances along with creativity, compositional fortitude and emotional connectivity. As someone who pretty much consumes all genres of music, i'm quite familiar with most styles of drumming. As good as the guy you presented is, he's no Billy Cobham!

I disagree about the competition thing. This is actually funny. You also said that Malmsteen surpassed Van Halen. I "challenged" you, you admitted defeat. And then around a year later, you said the same thing. Really, this is ridiculous. Being on steroids does not equal technical prowess or superiority. Anyway, I believe this is your perception. Neither have I desire to change it, nor do I see a point in trying that.


TOP means TOP. Malmsteen's musical vocabulary blows Van Halen's away. When did you challenge me? Don't remember that. You obviously don't listen to a lot of tech death metal to even know what i'm talking about so why are you even commenting?


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https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy


Posted By: Shadowyzard
Date Posted: November 10 2021 at 16:31
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

You obviously don't listen to a lot of tech death metal to even know what i'm talking about so why are you even commenting?

Oh, believe me I've listened to lots of extreme/technical metal drummers. I also can play the drums, can do blast beats too. I wouldn't otherwise comment like this. The fact that you don't remember my challenging your "top dog status" doesn't mean it didn't happen. You can check out VH's R.I.P. thread for that. I'm too lazy to do that now. Comparing VH with YJM is... not OK. Then, Quentin Tarantino surpassed Woody Allen. LOL Anyway, have a good night. 


Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: November 10 2021 at 16:44
Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

Does anybody have any specific songs that you can point to as examples of each drummer's prowess?

This comes to mind instantly, though I look at this more as a stellar band effort.




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Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: November 10 2021 at 17:09
It would be helpful if the OP would give feedback to the examples given. Then we could refine our top drumming performances.

Also, someone mentioned Billy Cobham. Don't recall anything he did in the last decade. Is he as good as Art Blakey?


Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: November 10 2021 at 17:27
Originally posted by Shadowyzard Shadowyzard wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

You obviously don't listen to a lot of tech death metal to even know what i'm talking about so why are you even commenting?

Oh, believe me I've listened to lots of extreme/technical metal drummers. I also can play the drums, can do blast beats too. I wouldn't otherwise comment like this. The fact that you don't remember my challenging your "top dog status" doesn't mean it didn't happen. You can check out VH's R.I.P. thread for that. I'm too lazy to do that now. Comparing VH with YJM is... not OK. Then, Quentin Tarantino surpassed Woody Allen. LOL Anyway, have a good night. 


I don't spend enough time in the forum to care about such challenges to be honest.

I also don't really care who thinks who's better than who etc

Music isn't a contest but if we are ranking artists as supposedly being in the top of their respective game then we do have to tick off a few characteristics of their craft in order to gauge their overall abilities.

Not sure what you're talking about but when i say Malmsteem is a better guitarist is solely from a technical point of view. I find VH much more interesting to actually listen to actually and there are dozens of guitarists who are better in every possible way than both of them!

Top drumming is a perception. What do we mean by TOP DRUMMING PERFORMANCES? In my world that includes not only creativity, innovation, compositional ingenuity and a firm command of textures, timbres, tones and rhythmic nuances but also includes speed and the ability to navigate through fields of time signature changes.

If you or anybody else on the other hand interprets TOP DRUMMING PERFORMANCES as the most interesting to them or some other interpretation, then so be it.

IMHO, tech death is unsurpassed in not ONLY speed but in myriad attributes.

That does not mean in any way that non-metal drummers are not excellent or talented!

And of course these observations have ZERO to do with enjoyability regarding personal taste.

Jazz and jazz-fusion bands are indeed talented ( as are prog bands ) but i personally haven't heard anything that exceeds the all-encompassing technicalities of tech death and even proggy black metal.


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Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: November 10 2021 at 18:29
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

It would be helpful if the OP would give feedback to the examples given. Then we could refine our top drumming performances.

Also, someone mentioned Billy Cobham. Don't recall anything he did in the last decade. Is he as good as Art Blakey?


Reading some reviews of his albums since 2010, he's lost it and taken the great fall into mediocrity.


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https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy


Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: November 10 2021 at 19:33
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

IMHO, tech death is unsurpassed in not ONLY speed but in myriad attributes.

That's fine. Speed doesn't impress me like it did when I was a teen. In fact, overreliance on speed can make things quite boring.

'Sides, no tech/death metal drummer is better than this guy. Wink



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Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: November 10 2021 at 19:35
I won't post the original video. The title itself is inappropriate unedited. Fortunately this is an instrumental take. The bands lyrics are beyond the most vile thing I have heard previously, regardless of their alleged satirical intent. But the drummer is just insane. So here is a reaction video of it.
And no, I won't recommend any of their other videos. Search at your own risk.



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Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: November 10 2021 at 20:52
^ that was sick! Never heard of them but dude was indeed an impressive beast!

OK, i take it back. THIS is the best drummer EVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!




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Posted By: Shadowyzard
Date Posted: November 11 2021 at 00:56
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Originally posted by Shadowyzard Shadowyzard wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

You obviously don't listen to a lot of tech death metal to even know what i'm talking about so why are you even commenting?

Oh, believe me I've listened to lots of extreme/technical metal drummers. I also can play the drums, can do blast beats too. I wouldn't otherwise comment like this. The fact that you don't remember my challenging your "top dog status" doesn't mean it didn't happen. You can check out VH's R.I.P. thread for that. I'm too lazy to do that now. Comparing VH with YJM is... not OK. Then, Quentin Tarantino surpassed Woody Allen. LOL Anyway, have a good night. 


I don't spend enough time in the forum to care about such challenges to be honest.

I also don't really care who thinks who's better than who etc

Music isn't a contest but if we are ranking artists as supposedly being in the top of their respective game then we do have to tick off a few characteristics of their craft in order to gauge their overall abilities.

Not sure what you're talking about but when i say Malmsteem is a better guitarist is solely from a technical point of view. I find VH much more interesting to actually listen to actually and there are dozens of guitarists who are better in every possible way than both of them!

Top drumming is a perception. What do we mean by TOP DRUMMING PERFORMANCES? In my world that includes not only creativity, innovation, compositional ingenuity and a firm command of textures, timbres, tones and rhythmic nuances but also includes speed and the ability to navigate through fields of time signature changes.

If you or anybody else on the other hand interprets TOP DRUMMING PERFORMANCES as the most interesting to them or some other interpretation, then so be it.

IMHO, tech death is unsurpassed in not ONLY speed but in myriad attributes.

That does not mean in any way that non-metal drummers are not excellent or talented!

And of course these observations have ZERO to do with enjoyability regarding personal taste.

Jazz and jazz-fusion bands are indeed talented ( as are prog bands ) but i personally haven't heard anything that exceeds the all-encompassing technicalities of tech death and even proggy black metal.

You said YJM surpassed EVH in creativity and technique. And this was not a "humble opinion" of yours. You insisted on it around a year later, as I said. Sorry but, you're like comparing Usain Bolt with Lionel Messi. Speed is a good thing. I love speed. But when speed is combined with endurance, you generally lose versatility and creativity. This is the case with most extreme metal drummers.

You're not exerting "humble opinions" here, either.

Anyway, discussing with you is a real bore. Go on believing that you "surpassed" me.


Posted By: Shadowyzard
Date Posted: November 11 2021 at 01:24
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

IMHO, tech death is unsurpassed in not ONLY speed but in myriad attributes.

This is mostly because most musicians are not interested in competing with technical death metal musicians. I prefer creativity with taste. I wouldn't want to be a prophet, either. And you can add lots of other "sick" things to those examples.


Posted By: Shadowyzard
Date Posted: November 11 2021 at 02:52
Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

I won't post the original video. The title itself is inappropriate unedited. Fortunately this is an instrumental take. The bands lyrics are beyond the most vile thing I have heard previously, regardless of their alleged satirical intent. But the drummer is just insane. So here is a reaction video of it.
And no, I won't recommend any of their other videos. Search at your own risk.


I once watched a guy whose beats are like "lines" more than "dots". But he was an obscure drummer. Nice to see someone like him got some recognition with a similar drumming. Hahah, sick indeed. But, boring.


Posted By: Shadowyzard
Date Posted: November 11 2021 at 03:11
Here's one of the extreme drumming examples that I find exciting. The drummer (Nicholas Barker) is not seen in the video due to the lighting. Perhaps they didn't want to show his humungous body. LOL




Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: November 11 2021 at 07:49
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

It would be helpful if the OP would give feedback to the examples given. Then we could refine our top drumming performances. 

This (from siLLy puPPy)
"Top drumming is a perception. What do we mean by TOP DRUMMING PERFORMANCES? In my world that includes not only creativity, innovation, compositional ingenuity and a firm command of textures, timbres, tones and rhythmic nuances but also includes speed and the ability to navigate through fields of time signature changes. 

If you or anybody else on the other hand interprets TOP DRUMMING PERFORMANCES as the most interesting to them or some other interpretation, then so be it." 

I'm loving and really appreciating the split-screen drumming videos--very educational/instructional (for me)--especially that Tommy Lang vid. I never knew that kind of array existed for the feet! Incredible!! I used to be so amazed by church organ players with their active feet on the bass pedals and all the stop-gap switches to manipulate, but I'm gaining a whole new appreciation for modern drummers. Which leads me to respond to the following comment with the question, can Billy Cobham or Art Blakey with single bass pedals be compared to these modern sets? Or, better yet, could the Virgil Donatis and Marco Minnemans and Aaron Kitcher and John Longstreth gain recognition with just a snare and hi-hat (as many of the old jazz drummers did)?

Also, someone mentioned Billy Cobham. Don't recall anything he did in the last decade. Is he as good as Art Blakey?
Or Awk, the B.C.E. Greek warship cockswain! 

Anyway, as to the OP: I'm really hoping you guys can link me up to certain songs or albums on which the drumming really caught your ear.

Thanks!




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Drew Fisher
https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/


Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: November 11 2021 at 08:01
Originally posted by Shadowyzard Shadowyzard wrote:

Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

I won't post the original video. The title itself is inappropriate unedited. Fortunately this is an instrumental take. The bands lyrics are beyond the most vile thing I have heard previously, regardless of their alleged satirical intent. But the drummer is just insane. So here is a reaction video of it.
And no, I won't recommend any of their other videos. Search at your own risk.


I once watched a guy whose beats are like "lines" more than "dots". But he was an obscure drummer. Nice to see someone like him got some recognition with a similar drumming. Hahah, sick indeed. But, boring.

I LOVED this video--felt EXACTLY the same as the "drum teacher" watching Aaron. That was not only amazing but beautiful! This is EXACTLY what I'm looking for. Wow! that was impressive! "Sick" technical skills employed in an artistic way! AWESOME!



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Drew Fisher
https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/


Posted By: Shadowyzard
Date Posted: November 11 2021 at 08:22
^ Yes it is very impressive. One of the best I've ever seen. These boundries had been pushed to this degree many years before, but this guy plays like perfectly. The sub-genre doesn't appeal to me though. It is kinda boring. Like a person yelling manically, and then apoligizing depressively in turns.


Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: November 11 2021 at 08:28
Originally posted by Shadowyzard Shadowyzard wrote:

^ Yes it is very impressive. One of the best I've ever seen. These boundries had been pushed to this degree many years before, but this guy plays like perfectly. The sub-genre doesn't appeal to me though. It is kinda boring. Like a person yelling manically, and then apoligizing depressively in turns.


How many times do you have to shout to the world that you don't like extreme metal? I think everyone has gotten the point by now.

Some of us LOOOOOOOVE these extreme manic musical expressions. Me included Wink


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Posted By: Shadowyzard
Date Posted: November 11 2021 at 08:34
^ Not many more times, I guess. I'm bored. Star


Posted By: Shadowyzard
Date Posted: November 11 2021 at 09:24
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Originally posted by Shadowyzard Shadowyzard wrote:

^ Yes it is very impressive. One of the best I've ever seen. These boundries had been pushed to this degree many years before, but this guy plays like perfectly. The sub-genre doesn't appeal to me though. It is kinda boring. Like a person yelling manically, and then apoligizing depressively in turns.


How many times do you have to shout to the world that you don't like extreme metal? I think everyone has gotten the point by now.

Some of us LOOOOOOOVE these extreme manic musical expressions. Me included Wink

BTW, I didn't mean "extreme metal" there. The sorts with lots of "breakdowns". (like being violent and then apologetic - manic/depressive.) I can like some extreme metal like Lock Up, Krisiun, old Behemoth etc. I prefer drummers that play more dynamically though. Like Nick Barker, Inferno, Max Kolesne etc. 


Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: November 11 2021 at 09:48
^ i love it all however when i feel like a machine gun attitude adjustment is in order, NOTHING satisfies more than extreme tech death / black metal or proggy deathcore :)


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Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: November 11 2021 at 09:53
Anyway...getting back to the OP request

JD Beck and Domi have been a YouTube sensation the last couple years. I thought their album was supposed to be out this year, but have not seen notice of it yet.

Drummer JD Beck was I believe 16 years old when these videos where released.





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Posted By: Shadowyzard
Date Posted: November 11 2021 at 10:20
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

^ i love it all however when i feel like a machine gun attitude adjustment is in order, NOTHING satisfies more than extreme tech death / black metal or proggy deathcore :)

This black metal guy has attracted lots of attention in the recent years. I think he is fun to watch. Should I join the Darkside? LOL




Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: November 11 2021 at 10:38
^ i don't get the hype about MGŁA. They aren't very original at all.

Looks like  you already joined the dark side if your avatar is any indication of your true intent :)


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Posted By: Shadowyzard
Date Posted: November 11 2021 at 10:43
LOL

I definitely agree about MGLA. Darkside is also not the mind-blowing sort of a drummer. But I enjoy watching him play anyways.


Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: November 12 2021 at 00:42
Nick D'Virgillio for Big Big Train and some Spock's Beard (also Martin Orford's solo albums but that was pre 2010's) . Big Big Train - Judas Unrepentant stands out massively.

Marco Minnemann certainly on a technical level of superiority for the Raven That Refused To Sing.

A much overlooked band is Tin Spirits and their drummer Douglas Mussard is right on the nose perfect if feel and timing are the most important things.

Also great drumming on Animals as Leaders , Mastodon, Haken and the like.







Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: November 14 2021 at 07:50
Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

...
This comes to mind instantly, though I look at this more as a stellar band effort.

Simon Phillips .. (to save space)

Hi,

My only complaint is the bunch of drummers that have an incredible amount of toms and everything else all over, and don't use more than half of it, and everyone thinks they are great drummers. Or worse, 90% of their drumming is on the snare drum, 5% on the 4th beat (or otherwise), and the last 5% is how they still are doing beat on the snare when the music is softer. That's talent for you ... not listening or even knowing what the music is about.

In this sense, folks like Bonzo will always look better than any of these ... He had the touch that made LZ special, and it was obvious as the stuff done AFTER he passed away was alright with his son, but lacked the touch and feel that we all knew and grew up on! The same with Moonie ... and his use of cymbals and breaks, that defied drumming at the time ... no one can do him, still! 

Simon is an experienced player. He has played enough stuff to be able to define the spots here and there very well and fill them well, even with Hiromi ... something that I imagine is not easy since she can go off at any moment and the drummer and Mr. Jackson have to be there with it!!! Another drummer that does this super well would be Steve Gadd, and listening to him play with Kate Bush is a treat ... a couple of songs that you could say has no rhyme or meter, and he's able to color the touches beautifully, and not have to worry about staying on beat or touch ... that is really rare and special in drumming, but the time keepers we are showing in this thread would not know what to do in these situations. Another drummer that also has a fine touch is Ian Mosley in Marillion, who I think colors their music very well.

A lot was said about Bill Bruford, but he made a comment on his book that was important that no drummers pay attention to ... what to do when it is quiet and there is some silence. I would even suggest that many of the drummers listed here don't know either! 


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... none of the hits, none of the time ... favoritism is not an artistic merit! www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: Cinema
Date Posted: November 16 2021 at 07:25
I haven't seen them listed yet (unless I missed it) ... Craig Blundell from Steven Wilson and Steve Hackett, and Danny Carey from Tool.


Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: November 16 2021 at 14:13

 Ingranaggi Della Valle's drummer Shanti Colucci at times reminds me of Bill Bruford.


Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: November 16 2021 at 16:28



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Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: November 17 2021 at 14:26
Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:


 Ingranaggi Della Valle's drummer Shanti Colucci at times reminds me of Bill Bruford.

Funny, I called him "the new Bill Bruford" in my review of their debut album, In hoc signo back in 2013!
Never felt it the same when Warm Spaced Blue came out, though...



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Drew Fisher
https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/


Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: November 17 2021 at 14:33
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

...
This comes to mind instantly, though I look at this more as a stellar band effort.

Simon Phillips .. (to save space)

A lot was said about Bill Bruford, but he made a comment on his book that was important that no drummers pay attention to ... what to do when it is quiet and there is some silence. I would even suggest that many of the drummers listed here don't know either! 

I've been waiting for others to chime in with this complaint. Why can't the use and allowance of space be a part of a drummer's talent? Steve Jansen being another master of this, IMO (but not in the 2010s). The drummer for Portland's eclectic band, The Mercury Tree, Connor Reilly, seems to possess some of this, as well. 



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Drew Fisher
https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/


Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: November 17 2021 at 14:49
^If space is a criteria, the following meet that - Sanguine Hum, Izz, and Echolyn.


Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: November 17 2021 at 14:54
I like Marco Minniman when he jams with Paul Gilbert

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Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: November 20 2021 at 13:26
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

^If space is a criteria, the following meet that - Sanguine Hum, Izz, and Echolyn.

Yes! Thank you! I really love Paul Mallyon's work. Greg DiMiceli is great, too! Mark Heron from Oceansize was definitely a favorite from the Naughties.




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Drew Fisher
https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/


Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: November 21 2021 at 08:50
I gotta admit (Mike) that the more I watch these closeup videos of extreme/tech/doom/black metal drummers, they're pretty impressive. Hard to discount the incredibly intricate work they do with their feet: I never knew they had multiple pedals per foot to "express" with! Skill, creative/artistry are definitely way more involved in their play than I ever knew/thought. Makes it kind of hard to compare these drummers with the "space-meisters" like Bruford, Jansen, Heron, Mallyon, and Coluzzi. It's like they're different breeds playing totally different instruments (in totally different universes).  

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Drew Fisher
https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/


Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: November 21 2021 at 09:48
Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

I gotta admit (Mike) that the more I watch these closeup videos of extreme/tech/doom/black metal drummers, they're pretty impressive. Hard to discount the incredibly intricate work they do with their feet: I never knew they had multiple pedals per foot to "express" with! Skill, creative/artistry are definitely way more involved in their play than I ever knew/thought. Makes it kind of hard to compare these drummers with the "space-meisters" like Bruford, Jansen, Heron, Mallyon, and Coluzzi. It's like they're different breeds playing totally different instruments (in totally different universes).  


Yeah, i think the extreme nature of metal alienates many so that they don't bother to explore the true genius embedded in much of it. It's the modern version of the drumming Olympics! Of course Bruford and jazz giants paved the way for the modern era of tech proggy extreme metal. In my book it's all good!


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https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy


Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: November 21 2021 at 19:01
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

I gotta admit (Mike) that the more I watch these closeup videos of extreme/tech/doom/black metal drummers, they're pretty impressive. Hard to discount the incredibly intricate work they do with their feet: I never knew they had multiple pedals per foot to "express" with! Skill, creative/artistry are definitely way more involved in their play than I ever knew/thought. Makes it kind of hard to compare these drummers with the "space-meisters" like Bruford, Jansen, Heron, Mallyon, and Coluzzi. It's like they're different breeds playing totally different instruments (in totally different universes).  


Yeah, i think the extreme nature of metal alienates many so that they don't bother to explore the true genius embedded in much of it. It's the modern version of the drumming Olympics! Of course Bruford and jazz giants paved the way for the modern era of tech proggy extreme metal. In my book it's all good!

A sports comparison seems warranted here: Tennis in the old days when the players were solo entities with wooden racquets and simple equipment compared to today's players with their modern composite rackets, hi-tech conditioning programs, and entourages of support teams. Respect for all eras!



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Drew Fisher
https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/


Posted By: Shadowyzard
Date Posted: November 21 2021 at 22:15
^ You both are right, to an extent. Whilst, the technical and strategic "things" also improve as the competitions become more serious. You can easily observe this in football (soccer, for the Americans) and basketball (NBA is a great example). It is also getting "sicker". I agree with you about not comparing the eras, but technically they can be compared. Maradona (R.I.P.) could never play so "wizardly" in today's football. In today's football, the defenders use some strategies that prevent a "prodigy" to dribble past the defenders one by one. I mean, it can still be done but is extremely difficult unlike Maradona's time. As, another defender is already ready to encounter him if he could "beat" one of the defenders. And he keeps a fixed distance, and acts as fast as a bullet if the opponent succeeds to "eliminate" his teammate. This was both a technical and a strategic innovation, and a tactical "change". The defensive strategies and physical training methods improved a lot, and seems to be still improving. But, such a talent and character like Maradona would still be one of the best or perhaps the best footballer of this time still. He just would have to adapt his playing to today's football.

I still think, comparing jazz drummers with extreme/technical drummers as improper. It is like comparing sportsmen from different branches.


Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: November 22 2021 at 07:01
As usual, I'm here to shill for my boy Kenny Grohowski. I've heard him work in contexts from straight up jazz through jazz-fusion, improv, extreme metal and avant-prog and he feels completely right in all of them. I've put a few examples below.

Jazzin' with Rez Abbasi:

View from inside the drum booth at a Rez Abbasi session:


Extreme metal with an avant twist, as part of Imperial Triumphant:


Avant-prog with John Zorn's Simulacrum trio:


Bottom line, when I hear him play it hits me in my soul. 


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Soldato of the Pan Head Mafia. We'll make you an offer you can't listen to.
http://bandcamp.com/jpillbox" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp Profile


Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: November 22 2021 at 07:08
Originally posted by Shadowyzard Shadowyzard wrote:



I still think, comparing jazz drummers with extreme/technical drummers as improper. It is like comparing sportsmen from different branches.
 

I beg to differ. The reason they are compared is because jazz drumming methodologies are integral in many of the techniques used in the more progressive styles of tech / extreme metal. If you don't hear jazz drumming in Cynic, Atheist or Gorguts then you're not listening very carefully.

Obviously metal is a huge universe at the moment and you can compare different bands to almost any style of music out there as it's all been incorporated (or so it seems).


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https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy


Posted By: Shadowyzard
Date Posted: November 22 2021 at 07:16
^ The "surpassing" and "competing" notions of yours. I only disagree with that. Or let me give a better example again from football (soccer). A creative midfielder who lacks speed/endurance but has better technical abilities than his teammates can be likened to a jazz drummer. A very technical but less creative footballer, and this time a striker, who has amazing speed/endurance can be likened to a technical/extreme metal drummer. I'm not stereotyping. There are many metal drummers that are more creative than some jazz drummers. But, in my humble opinion (I really don't like to prove anything here, this is just a nice talk with you) extreme drummers generally lack the creativity and versatility that the jazz drummers possess. I love watching drummers. If they are exceptionally talented. Be it jazz, rock, metal or whatever. I also love how some drummers use their technical skills only to enrich the music, and not showcasing them. I used to think that John Bonham was a regular, mediocre drummer; and I watched one of his solos and was blown away. His beats/hits are also very nuanced.

One thing to add... A real artist/craftsman can be awesome in a myriad of genres. But, one should utterly dedicate his/her life to his/her art/craft. Especially if you plan to do stuff that require lots of physical endurance, your "talent" would never be enough. You always have to stay fit. Even a piano virtuoso should keep his/her fingers "fit" by lots of exercises a day. The Turkish piano virtuoso Fazıl Say said that, if he doesn't play the piano for a couple of days, it takes weeks to compensate for it and be able to play the same again. I had a jazz bassist bandmate. He once said that pop basses are extremely difficult to learn. But once you master 10-20 pop songs, the rest is a piece of cake.

Music is a deep ocean. One has to be a shark! Star


Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: November 22 2021 at 07:35
Originally posted by Shadowyzard Shadowyzard wrote:

^ The "surpassing" and "competing" notions of yours. I only disagree with that. Or let me give a better example again from football (soccer). A creative midfielder who lacks speed/endurance but has better technical abilities than his teammates can be likened to a jazz drummer. A very technical but less creative footballer, and this time a striker, who has amazing speed/endurance can be likened to a technical/extreme metal drummer. I'm not stereotyping. There are many metal drummers that are more creative than some jazz drummers. But, in my humble opinion (I really don't like to prove anything here, this is just a nice talk with you) extreme drummers generally lack the creativity and versatility that the jazz drummers possess. I love watching drummers. If they are exceptionally talented. Be it jazz, rock, metal or whatever. I also love how some drummers use their technical skills only to enrich the music, and not showcasing them. I used to think that John Bonham was a regular, mediocre drummer; and I watched one of his solos and was blown away. His beats/hits are also very nuanced.

One thing to add... A real artist/craftsman can be awesome in a myriad of genres. But, one should utterly dedicate his/her life to his/her art/craft. Especially if you plan to do stuff that require lots of physical endurance, your "talent" would never be enough. You always have to stay fit. Even a piano virtuoso should keep his/her fingers "fit" by lots of exercises a day. The Turkish piano virtuoso Fazıl Say said that, if he doesn't play the piano for a couple of days, it takes weeks to compensate for it and be able to play the same again. I had a jazz bassist bandmate. He once said that pop basses are extremely difficult to learn. But once you master 10-20 pop songs, the rest is a piece of cake.

Music is a deep ocean. One has to be a shark! Star


OK, i get your drift. Many tech metal drummers are also in other bands. Glad you added the word "generally" because extreme metal can indeed become one-dimensional but then again that's the point. I personally don't feel music is competitive in nature. Some of us just have a need for speed and tech extreme metal can scratch that itch like nobody's business!


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https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy


Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: November 22 2021 at 08:50
^Great discussion, Mike and Özgür! Thanks! Just the kind of civil, on-target commentary I was hoping to generate with this thread. 

I agree that I'm not trying to make this out to be a competition--I appreciate the skills and styles of so many artists (including athletes)--I'm just trying to expand my awareness of what artists are out there that I might be missing.

Also, Özgür: Yes, that physical dedication component is super important. I know from many, many examples in athletics and health care that even a seemingly insignificant absence from one's craft of a day or two can significantly affect one's fine tuned timing and skill levels. Dedication is key. Great point.



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Drew Fisher
https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/


Posted By: Shadowyzard
Date Posted: November 22 2021 at 09:03
^ Thank you Drew. It was my pleasure. I also am learning lots of things from this forum. Let's all keep it that way. Also be thankful to yourself. Your intentions to create this thread were already clear. I would be sorry if I happened to be an a****le here. Ying Yang


Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: December 05 2021 at 04:13
Another great young drummer I wanna mention: Michael Mitchell.

Not just because he has got the killer chops (which he has for sure) but because, like the proper jazzman he is, he’s all about listening to and interacting with the other players. Check out the dialogue between him and pianist Greg Spero around half way into this Spirit Fingers track:



It would be interesting to hear him in an extreme metal context. Here he is with Cameron Graves, which seems about as close to that as you’ll get in jazz fusion:



Special thanks to Mirakaze, who just recently turned me on to Cameron Graves.

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Soldato of the Pan Head Mafia. We'll make you an offer you can't listen to.
http://bandcamp.com/jpillbox" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp Profile


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: December 05 2021 at 06:57
Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

...
A sports comparison seems warranted here: Tennis in the old days when the players were solo entities with wooden racquets and simple equipment compared to today's players with their modern composite rackets, hi-tech conditioning programs, and entourages of support teams. Respect for all eras!


Hi,

Even better ... the strings and the tension. Nowadays everyone has them at 80 PSI or better since the rackets are strong and all that. In the old days, McEnroe had his strings on the Wilson (wood) rackets at about 50 PSI so the ball would "die" when it touched it and he could get the ball to spin even more when he placed it over there in that spot, which made him one of the best "spot" players ever. And using the spin on the serve was even tougher on the opposition. But it changed when Lendl came along with strings about 70 PSI or more and he was blowing holes in John's rackets!


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... none of the hits, none of the time ... favoritism is not an artistic merit! www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: February 09 2022 at 14:15
Originally posted by Shadowyzard Shadowyzard wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

^ i love it all however when i feel like a machine gun attitude adjustment is in order, NOTHING satisfies more than extreme tech death / black metal or proggy deathcore :)

This black metal guy has attracted lots of attention in the recent years. I think he is fun to watch. Should I join the Darkside? LOL



I REALLY enjoyed that! He makes it look so smooth and effortless--and sensical! Such economy of motion. Does he even sweat?



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Drew Fisher
https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/


Posted By: Archisorcerus
Date Posted: February 10 2022 at 03:38
^ Cool, Drew! (I used to be Shadowyzard, BTW.)

Hahah. He can play in such an outfit without being out of breath, so you must be right. Darkside is a good drummer. He definitely has style and creativity. 

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"Alone I walk, among the twisting shadows
tempted by the ancient magic, the Power of Five
My desire to mirror my own image -
and I will offer you no soul - offer you no soul"



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