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Help me appreciate Growl Style Vocals

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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=127841
Printed Date: May 16 2022 at 21:26
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Topic: Help me appreciate Growl Style Vocals
Posted By: Cylli Kat (0fficial)
Subject: Help me appreciate Growl Style Vocals
Date Posted: November 19 2021 at 09:08
Help me appreciate Growl Style Vocals

Okay, here's what's cookin'...

I've tried so hard to get the groove of "Growl Style" vocals.
I've gone through a great many acts that employ them so regularly, that it just ends up sounding like a sawmill to my ears.

I LOVE it if it's used like a garnish, or frosting: Employ it occasionally, but not all the time.

So, here's the thing:
Please throw some ideas my way to help me start to appreciate this style.

Either full-on growl, or as a garnish, I'll give anything a try.

I'd be super, WAY excited if the bands have exceptional technical skill (I am a shredder, after all). For example, Christian Münzner with Obscura, Opeth, Rings of Saturn, etc.

Hey, help a fellow progger out! Please help me try to get into this style, because I feel like I might be missing out on some great music...

Thanks!!!

BTW, if you ever wondered what ol' Cylli looks like, here I am in 2007:



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(Insert Clever Words Here)
I'm actually this guy: https://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=17597" rel="nofollow - Cylli Kat



Replies:
Posted By: Shadowyzard
Date Posted: November 19 2021 at 09:17
You can try some Obituary, perhaps? Tardy is my favourite "growler". Also this album is/was one of the most sold metal albums in Turkey ever. It is because of their previous album. It attracted too much attention, and the next (this) album sold a lot.






Posted By: Necrotica
Date Posted: November 19 2021 at 09:18
So here are some introductory entries I'd get you started on:

Death - Symbolic (Progressive Death Metal)
Vektor - Terminal Redux (Progressive/Tech Thrash)
Gojira - The Way of All Flesh (Progressive Death Metal/Groove Metal)
Opeth - Ghost Reveries (Progressive Death Metal)
Cynic - Focus (Progressive Death Metal/Jazz Fusion)
Atheist - Unquestionable Presence (Progressive Death Metal/Jazz Fusion)


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Take me down, to the underground
Won't you take me down, to the underground
Why of why, there is no light
And if I can't sleep, can you hold my life


Posted By: Cylli Kat (0fficial)
Date Posted: November 19 2021 at 09:26
Originally posted by Shadowyzard Shadowyzard wrote:

You can try some Obituary, perhaps? Tardy is my favourite "growler". Also this album is/was one of the most sold metal albums in Turkey ever. It is because of their previous album. It attracted too much attention, and the next (this) album sold a lot.




Yes! Yes! Yes!

AWESOME opening salvo, Ozgur!!! THANKS!!!

THIS I can appreciate!!!
I can still hear a voice!!!

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(Insert Clever Words Here)
I'm actually this guy: https://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=17597" rel="nofollow - Cylli Kat


Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: November 19 2021 at 09:29
Nothing will help. You either like them or don't. You could acclimate to them, just as you could to, say, a Chipmunks album, but your tastes are your own. It's okay if you don't appreciate growl vocals. I don't and for some reason they make me laugh, like Chipmunk vocals.  



Posted By: Shadowyzard
Date Posted: November 19 2021 at 09:29
^ You're welcome man. One other recommendation for you. This has gotta be the last. As I'm not much of a growling vocals guy, either. (But I can growl, even gutturally. Tongue)

The singer here both growls awesomely and sings beautifully. I guess it could be less disturbing, even fun for you than Akerfeldt's screechy vocals.






Posted By: Cylli Kat (0fficial)
Date Posted: November 19 2021 at 09:43
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Nothing will help. You either like them or don't. You could acclimate to them, just as you could to, say, a Chipmunks album, but your tastes are your own. It's okay if you don't appreciate growl vocals. I don't and for some reason they make me laugh, like Chipmunk vocals.  



I hear you, Will!
Mike (siLLy puPPy) also told me in another thread that it might be a case of my needing acclimatization to this style.

My favorite singers (that immediately spring to mind) would include Ray Alder, Einar Solberg, Daniel Gildenlöw, David Sylvian, and the late, great James (Jimmy) Dewar (Robin Trower).
[Big Edit]: I forgot to mention Chris Sampson from Azure. And (what a horrible omission on my part)

Marco Ciancaglini (Soul Doubt).
So, the growls are a bit difficult for me so far, but I feel like I gotta keep tryin'!


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(Insert Clever Words Here)
I'm actually this guy: https://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=17597" rel="nofollow - Cylli Kat


Posted By: Cylli Kat (0fficial)
Date Posted: November 19 2021 at 09:48
Originally posted by Necrotica Necrotica wrote:

So here are some introductory entries I'd get you started on:

Death - Symbolic (Progressive Death Metal)
Vektor - Terminal Redux (Progressive/Tech Thrash)
Gojira - The Way of All Flesh (Progressive Death Metal/Groove Metal)
Opeth - Ghost Reveries (Progressive Death Metal)
Cynic - Focus (Progressive Death Metal/Jazz Fusion)
Atheist - Unquestionable Presence (Progressive Death Metal/Jazz Fusion)


Thanks, Brendan, way cool suggestions!
I have Cynic, Opeth, Death and Gojira in the collection.
Time to dust 'em off and give them another try!


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(Insert Clever Words Here)
I'm actually this guy: https://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=17597" rel="nofollow - Cylli Kat


Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: November 19 2021 at 09:48
This is also a "general music discussion" topic.

I am still not sold on the necessity of this style of vocal and find I am only tolerant of it in the setting of outrageously complex compositions. But I must admit this interview gave me a better understanding and appreciation of what goes into performing and recording this art form.

Warning! The video that is being referenced in this interview is definitely NSFW, which is why I am not embedding it in the post.

https://youtu.be/ACLHIzkW18g" rel="nofollow - Kardavox Academy interview of Dickie Allen

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https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow">
https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp


Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: November 19 2021 at 09:50
Originally posted by Cylli Kat (0fficial) Cylli Kat (0fficial) wrote:

My favorite singers (that immediately spring to mind) would include Ray Alder, Einar Solberg, Daniel Gildenlöw, David Sylvian, and the late, great James (Jimmy) Dewar (Robin Trower).

So, the growls are a bit difficult for me so far, but I feel like I gotta keep tryin'!
Dewar is awesome. Thumbs Up My favorite singers that spring to mind are - Peter Gabriel, Alice Cooper, Robert Plant, and Todd Rundgren.

Keep tryin' to dig the growl, if you must. I listen to some growl vocal music but it takes away from the music, for me. If only those bands would release a instrumental CD along with the vocal CD. Similar to what Haken do.


Posted By: Zeph
Date Posted: November 19 2021 at 09:51
Opeth is my favorite, and one of the only bands in my collection to feature growling. Michael started out with nothing but growling, gradually introduced clean vocals and at one point ditched the growling completely on later albums.

Ghost Reveries is a good place to start with a combination of clean and growls. It’s also a fantastic album in my opinion.


Posted By: Cylli Kat (0fficial)
Date Posted: November 19 2021 at 09:51
Originally posted by Shadowyzard Shadowyzard wrote:

^ You're welcome man. One other recommendation for you. This has gotta be the last. As I'm not much of a growling vocals guy, either. (But I can growl, even gutturally. Tongue)

The singer here both growls awesomely and sings beautifully. I guess it could be less disturbing, even fun for you than Akerfeldt's screechy vocals.



Another nice one!
I forgot about the fact that I like Amorphis!
My Kantele still gives me a "full-on robot chubber"!


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(Insert Clever Words Here)
I'm actually this guy: https://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=17597" rel="nofollow - Cylli Kat


Posted By: Cylli Kat (0fficial)
Date Posted: November 19 2021 at 10:00
Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

This is also a "general music discussion" topic.

I am still not sold on the necessity of this style of vocal and find I am only tolerant of it in the setting of outrageously complex compositions. But I must admit this interview gave me a better understanding and appreciation of what goes into performing and recording this art form.

Warning! The video that is being referenced in this interview is definitely NSFW, which is why I am not embedding it in the post.

https://youtu.be/ACLHIzkW18g" rel="nofollow - Kardavox Academy interview of Dickie Allen


Thanks, Ian!

You phrased it PERFECTLY here:
"I am still not sold on the necessity of this style of vocal and find I am only tolerant of it in the setting of outrageously complex compositions."




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(Insert Clever Words Here)
I'm actually this guy: https://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=17597" rel="nofollow - Cylli Kat


Posted By: Shadowyzard
Date Posted: November 19 2021 at 10:01
^ My Kantele's acoustic reprise is... I can't find the words. I adore it!


Posted By: Mind_Drive
Date Posted: November 19 2021 at 10:07
ok here is my two cents coming from somone who has struggled with growls his entire life and still does not enjoy them thoroughly:

"Your ability to appreciate harsh vocals is equal to your ability to accept your own (still unresolved) shadows."

so the moment this agressive and sometimes painful (in that it carries painful emotions) music is striking a chord within you, that doesnt make you feel grossed out about the fact this very emotion is so relatable to you, you can enjoy it :)

..and the moment you heal and transmute this shadow, this music doesnt resonate anymore because you have let go of this pain and anger.

so either you are still rejecting the aspects of you that carry these emotions or you have already completely integrated and tranformed them.

idk if that makes sense, but i feel the more i accknowledge my "dark side" the more i am able to listen to such growls but the more i feel complete and at peace, the more i am grossed out by it.


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It's just a ride... <3


Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: November 19 2021 at 10:17
Originally posted by Mind_Drive Mind_Drive wrote:


...so the moment this agressive and sometimes painful (in that it carries painful emotions) music is striking a chord within you, that doesnt make you feel grossed out about the fact this very emotion is so relatable to you, you can enjoy it...


I don't know, man. Literally the same exact words can be used in reference to Whitney Houston's insidious wailing on The Bodyguard theme song, which I find even more difficult to tolerate than growls.

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https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow">
https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp


Posted By: Mind_Drive
Date Posted: November 19 2021 at 10:20
Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

Originally posted by Mind_Drive Mind_Drive wrote:


...so the moment this agressive and sometimes painful (in that it carries painful emotions) music is striking a chord within you, that doesnt make you feel grossed out about the fact this very emotion is so relatable to you, you can enjoy it...


I don't know, man. Literally the same exact words can be used in reference to Whitney Houston's insidious wailing on The Bodyguard theme song, which I find even more difficult to tolerate than growls.

sure, the same principle applies to every music, if it doesnt resonate, you dont like it. 
but with harsh vocals its pretty obviously about shadows and negative emotions that seem to be lacking or not accknowledged.


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It's just a ride... <3


Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: November 19 2021 at 10:27
Originally posted by Necrotica Necrotica wrote:

Atheist - Unquestionable Presence (Progressive Death Metal/Jazz Fusion)


What's interesting about this album is that I have the reissues of the first 3 albums with bonus material. The end of the "Elements" cd has almost the entire "Unquestionable Presence" played live on a radio station. His vocals are decidedly cleaner and to me improve the listening experience dramatically.

That being said, his dirty vocals on "Jupiter" I thought were spot-on. Though that album isn't very well regarded. I like it.

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https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow">
https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp


Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: November 19 2021 at 11:30
The secret is to understanding the point of growly vocals

Extreme metal is crafting a bleak and ugly soundscape

Would it really be effective if it used power metal vocals?

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https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy


Posted By: Shadowyzard
Date Posted: November 19 2021 at 11:32
^ I have no problems with extreme metal with extreme vocals. BUT, I have some serious problems with shrieking vocals in black metal. As if all the "evil" entities should have such a voice...


Posted By: Shadowyzard
Date Posted: November 19 2021 at 11:46
I once listened to an album with Jorn Lande on vocals (clean, as clean as Lande's regular voice, at least), and uses melodic black metal instrumentation. If I liked Lande's voice very much, it would be one of my favourite "black metal" albums.

Mike (Puppy), have you listened to this Chinese band? The singer's shrieks are excellent, at least not annoying. The music is so too. (I barely find black metal "shriekers" listenable, by the way.)




Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: November 19 2021 at 12:01
^
Sounds a bit like Absu

Personally I love shrieking

The more extreme the better in my world

I’m a rare breed though

One minute I’m listening to Deathspell Omega, the next Air Supply or Indian ragas and hip hop!

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https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy


Posted By: Shadowyzard
Date Posted: November 19 2021 at 12:07
^ You're like me "on steroids". But, I may be a bit more diverse than you. We have some Eastern culture here too, and I love lots of stuff of it. Even the Turkish Arabesk Music. Star


Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: November 19 2021 at 12:22
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

The secret is to understanding the point of growly vocals

Extreme metal is crafting a bleak and ugly soundscape

Would it really be effective if it used power metal vocals?


Sometimes.
One of the problems is the bleakness of lyrical content is lost in the mud. Admittedly I would often rather not even know what the lyrics are.

When it comes to conveying a bleak, dark, hostile landscape there are a number of ways to accomplish it. One of favorites is the style of the Gothic bass tones of guys like Peter Steel, Johan Edlund, and that Owl dude.

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https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow">
https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp


Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: November 19 2021 at 12:52
Bleak and Ugly:




Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: November 19 2021 at 13:02
Originally posted by Shadowyzard Shadowyzard wrote:

^ You're like me "on steroids". But, I may be a bit more diverse than you. We have some Eastern culture here too, and I love lots of stuff of it. Even the Turkish Arabesk Music. Star


Oh I have hundreds of ethnic cds

Includes dozens of middle eastern music and pretty much a sampling of every possible style of music I can get my hands on hence a collection of over 15k cds

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https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy


Posted By: Shadowyzard
Date Posted: November 19 2021 at 13:05
^ I'm not in the "competition" mode. Perhaps next time. Wink


Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: November 19 2021 at 13:15
Originally posted by Shadowyzard Shadowyzard wrote:

^ I'm not in the "competition" mode. Perhaps next time. Wink


Well you did open the door with a comment like “I may be more diverse than you.”

I love every style of metal, every style of prog and honestly have never heard a genre from anywhere that I don’t like!

I just call myself a music addict and leave it there 🤪

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https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy


Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: November 19 2021 at 13:24
Is there any music that is not ethnic?


Posted By: Shadowyzard
Date Posted: November 19 2021 at 13:25
^ Actually, Mike, we are all products of our own cultures. Sad but true. So, the ethnic CD's you own and I own are generally "targeted" to us. We also unearth "precious gems" like your unearthing Death Oath's magnificent album Pernicious Conjure. But even that is targeted to the "world" in general. The Arabesk songs I listen, and the hip-hop you listen... They should be more specifically for you and me. When I was in Midyat, I heard some Kurdish albums, and before that I wasn't even aware that such musics exist. Midyat is in Turkey, but the authentic music they listen to are not known by most of the Turks. The "Kurdish" music that most Turks know are targeted to the Turks. This is not limited to music, either. Some local breads can only eaten, if you go to the cities that the people make those breads.

One of my friends went to Switzerland for working, and when he came back for a vacation, he gave me a CD of the progressive local bands of there. They were awesome, and some of them were only shared among friends. Never officially released.

I think you get my point.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to teach you anything. But I believe, this is the truth.


Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: November 19 2021 at 20:47
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Is there any music that is not ethnic?


Yeah

Prog!

🤪

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https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy


Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: November 19 2021 at 20:51
Originally posted by Shadowyzard Shadowyzard wrote:

^ Actually, Mike, we are all products of our own cultures. Sad but true. So, the ethnic CD's you own and I own are generally "targeted" to us. We also unearth "precious gems" like your unearthing Death Oath's magnificent album Pernicious Conjure. But even that is targeted to the "world" in general. The Arabesk songs I listen, and the hip-hop you listen... They should be more specifically for you and me. When I was in Midyat, I heard some Kurdish albums, and before that I wasn't even aware that such musics exist. Midyat is in Turkey, but the authentic music they listen to are not known by most of the Turks. The "Kurdish" music that most Turks know are targeted to the Turks. This is not limited to music, either. Some local breads can only eaten, if you go to the cities that the people make those breads.

One of my friends went to Switzerland for working, and when he came back for a vacation, he gave me a CD of the progressive local bands of there. They were awesome, and some of them were only shared among friends. Never officially released.

I think you get my point.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to teach you anything. But I believe, this is the truth.


Yeah we are certainly targeted but there are enough music compilations and resources on the web to seek out whatever we want these days

I’ve found obscure stuff from the middle of Iran, Oman and other off the wall places

Death oath was just one of many Turkish finds

It was certainly one of my favorite metal experiences from 🇹🇷

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https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy


Posted By: Shadowyzard
Date Posted: November 20 2021 at 00:38
^ True dat!

I admire your interest and enthusiasm to learn virtually anything. You're a great connoisseur. I'm more of a ""choosy" guy. Also I cannot be "on steroids". I sometimes have to rest. Hahah. I'm a Pisces FFS!!!


Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: November 20 2021 at 02:15
I love the Waste Of Space Orchestra album of a few years ago, apparently a side project of 2 Finnish death metal bands. The growling seems more 'organic' (although that may not be a thing lol).

I also enjoy the last Meshuggah album The Violent Sleep Of Reason although I'm not a fan generally.


Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: November 20 2021 at 10:29
Opeth rules. End of story.


Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: December 03 2021 at 12:05
Not sure what I have struggled to overcome most... Growls or Tales From Topographic Oceans.

Have always struggled with growls, since the quality of the vocals has always been really important to me. The only growly band I can listen to is Amorphis, partly because I know the clean vocals are never far away and partly because the compositions are often so damn addictive... 


Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: December 03 2021 at 19:36
I have never liked growling, and for a very long time avoided it like a plague. I still don't particularly like them, and mostly songs that feature them are not even songs I enjoy anyway. However, there are some exceptions. Opeth, for example, whom are usually given here as the ones that make growling good still don't make me enjoy it, and mostly I like them because of their clean vocal songs... however, my very favourite song from them, The Drapery Falls (live version from Lamentations) does feature growling. Some other songs with growling that I do love (though not for the growling) are Forever from Macbeth (the first song that called my attention since the 90's), Cry for the Moon from Epica (once again the only growling song that I like, besides I only like clean songs from them... though their newer album might give me one or two songs with growling that I like), The Final Victory from Haggard, Alma Mater from Moonspell, Seclusion by Penumbra, Ecstatic by Trail of Tears, and Crossed by Sirennia (my wife does enjoy this kind of music, and so I got her albums to see if I might find something to like from them, given that I do like metal, and the epic and operatic aproach from many of these albums). And from Wilderun, they have an album called Sleep at the Edge of Earth that has a really gorgeous set of songs that make a sort of epic song. And last, the only artist that has actually made me enjoy growling is Devin Townsend... he does sort of use it for good reason unlike most bands that use them. The main examples for me from him would be Planet Smasher and his performance on Ayreon's Loser.



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