Return of the Giant Hogweed - contradiction
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Topic: Return of the Giant Hogweed - contradiction
Posted By: chopper
Subject: Return of the Giant Hogweed - contradiction
Date Posted: January 18 2022 at 13:26
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I suppose I should have noticed this before after 50 odd years of listening to this song, but I've just realised that one hand Peter is saying - "Strike by night! They are defencelessThey all need the sun to photosensitize their venom" and next minute he says "Still they're invincible Still they're immune to all our herbicidal battering"So which is it Peter? First you suggest we just have to show up at night with flamethrowers to wipe them out, then you're saying they're still invincible. I mean, they can't be both defenceless and invincible, so which is it Peter?
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Replies:
Posted By: JD
Date Posted: January 18 2022 at 13:42
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Context brother. These are the ramblings of villagers who don't know 5hit about anything. First, they state and then they maintain the assertion that the weeds are 'invincible', that doesn't change. The verse with the 'Strike at night' line is yet another villager's theory as to how to kill them, but as previously stated...'they are invincible'. And at the end of the day, the Hogweed emerges victorious. So Peter was right on with his story.
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Posted By: Hrychu
Date Posted: January 18 2022 at 13:56
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Good point. BTW have you noticed the phrase "Mighty Hogweed is avenged, human bodies soon will know our anger..." and so on, was, like, recorded using varispeed to achieve a deeper voice? ------------- On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became. Ernest Vong |
Posted By: Heart of the Matter
Date Posted: January 18 2022 at 14:10
| Peter wasn't playing a man of science with a theory, he's more like the voice of desperate men who first think we have a chance, and then see that that's not the case. |
Posted By: Cosmiclawnmower
Date Posted: January 18 2022 at 14:55
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As far as im aware the song is a satire based on 'Day of the Triffids' but using the (actually very current) concern of the times (Victorian then again in the 60's/early 70's) regarding 'foreign' introductions of plants which might 'escape' our gardens and take over the countryside.. Giant Hogweed hasn't proven to be quite as 'invasive' as Japanese Knotweed or Himalayan Balsam but it does have some herbicidal resistance and though it tends to be monocarpic it produces a lot of viable seed. Like many of the larger umbellifers (including Hemlock and even Parsnip foliage) it has chemicals in its sap which if in contact with the skin, can cause severe blisters and burns when exposed to sunlight. I'm sure most Genesis fans know the origins of this song but as a botanist and horticulturalist all i can say is that Peter is pretty accurate and its no surprise he has showed a fair bit of interest in Gardening in his own life   ------------- |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: January 18 2022 at 15:33
^ Just try taking out an infestation of kudzu. 
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Posted By: Sacro_Porgo
Date Posted: January 18 2022 at 15:38
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I always thought "strike by night..." was the plan of how they thought they could defeat the hogweed, but then when they try to do that they are surprised to find "still they're invincible..." ------------- Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :) |
Posted By: Cosmiclawnmower
Date Posted: January 18 2022 at 16:12
Yep.. its not something we have to deal with in the UK but i can see its no laughing matter.. ------------- |
Easy Money wrote:Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: January 18 2022 at 17:33
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Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: January 18 2022 at 19:56
This is also my take on this.
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Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: January 18 2022 at 23:46
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The question in my mind is why nobody on this forum uses Giant Progweed as a handle. ------------- Soldato of the Pan Head Mafia. We'll make you an offer you can't listen to. http://bandcamp.com/jpillbox" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp Profile |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: January 19 2022 at 02:53
Yeah, that makes sense but where did the theory about them being defenceless at night come from? Surely one of the aforementioned villagers tried this out?
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Posted By: Cosmiclawnmower
Date Posted: January 19 2022 at 04:16
Maybe its not thought out properly but the idea of them being 'defenseless' at night comes from the fact that in 'real' giant hogweed (and many other umbellifers) the chemical irritant in their sap only creates burns and blisters when the skin which came into contact to it is exposed to the sun; hence 'They all need the sun to photosensitize their venom'.. PG has just raised this to 'day of the triffid' proportions. There were real hysterical horror stories in the early 70's about what effect contact with giant hogweed would do to you- it is nasty stuff but whilst ive only had very very minor skin irritation from them one chap i know put a strimmer into one and ended up in hospital, nearly lost his sight and was quite moderately scarred for life on face, hands and arms!  ------------- |
Posted By: Cosmiclawnmower
Date Posted: January 19 2022 at 04:22
Ive been looking a lot on line and doing a bit of research and i can see it REALLY is no laughing matter its like a real world version of HG Well's Martian red weed!! (except that its not red..) We have infestations of Japanese Knotweed (which can undermine buildings, foundations, break up concrete and tarmac and cause you to not be able to sell your property or get a mortgage if you have it on your land..) but nothing like Kudzu!!------------- |
Posted By: JD
Date Posted: January 19 2022 at 05:09
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Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: January 19 2022 at 06:57
Hang on, you said these villagers were thick as sh*t.
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Posted By: JD
Date Posted: January 22 2022 at 16:15
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Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: January 23 2022 at 01:05
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Invincible could have also been hyperbole for effect. You know, just like giant weed monsters in general. PROG!!! ------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Posted By: Boojieboy
Date Posted: January 24 2022 at 16:12
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The Hogweed are strongest during the day, when they recharge and strengthen themselves by sun and photosynthesis. Striking by night would be when they are weakest. They're weak and defenseless without sun and photosynthesis. Makes complete sense.
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Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: January 25 2022 at 05:29
Well I was joking but my point was after saying they're defenceless he says they're still invincible. That's the contradiction.
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Posted By: JD
Date Posted: January 25 2022 at 06:04
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^As I often say...Context man ! Strike by night! They are defenceless They all need the sun to photosensitize their venom This statement is one of the 'villagers' suggesting a course of action based on a basic understanding of plant life. Simple enough? Still they're invincible Still they're immune to all our herbicidal battering This statement is is the villager coming to the realization that his theory was ineffective. Again...Simple enough? ------------- Thank you for supporting independently produced music |
Posted By: Boojieboy
Date Posted: January 25 2022 at 12:10
| They might just be invincible, but striking by night offers the best chance/hope of subduing them at least. Still makes sense, and there is no contradiction. |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: January 25 2022 at 12:54
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the effects of smoking 20 bowls of buds..... -------------   
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Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: January 26 2022 at 02:48
Ah but that's the thing, he doesn't say they might just be invincible, he says they ARE invincible.
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Posted By: JD
Date Posted: January 26 2022 at 05:15
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Holy 5hit man...give it up ! BTW..he says STILL they're invincible.
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