Marillion Marbles
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=131211
Printed Date: August 07 2025 at 09:01
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Topic: Marillion Marbles
Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Subject: Marillion Marbles
Date Posted: July 06 2023 at 16:35
I did a Neo Prog poll some time ago and included Marbles and Lazland suggested that this album was not in any way a Neo Prog album. I agreed with him but if it's not Neo what is it? On the site here we have the bands in sub-genres not albums and I feel that maybe Seasons End was Marillion's last Neo record.
I listened to it last night and to be honest before I spun it I was thinking Symphonic ala Spock's Beard and The Flower Kings but after the listen I was leaning more towards Eclectic. Just curious of opinions and comments.
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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN
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Replies:
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: July 06 2023 at 16:43
According to RYM tagging it's progressive rock mixed with alternative rock, post-Britpop and pop rock
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https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
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Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: July 06 2023 at 16:54
Neo Prog all the way! It's the only Marillion album I own from the Hogarth era, although given the opportunity, I'd buy all of them at the right price. 
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Posted By: Awesoreno
Date Posted: July 07 2023 at 00:08
 siLLy puPPy wrote:
According to RYM tagging it's progressive rock mixed with alternative rock, post-Britpop and pop rock
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That seems about right to me. So by that logic, Crossover.
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Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: July 07 2023 at 01:09
Awesoreno wrote:
siLLy puPPy wrote:
According to RYM tagging it's progressive rock mixed with alternative rock, post-Britpop and pop rock
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That seems about right to me. So by that logic, Crossover. |
Interesting and I did look up the RYM tags prior. So Marbles is Prog Rock yes but on this site we're more specific.
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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: July 07 2023 at 01:10
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Neo Prog all day long. Seasons's End and Ever showed a different and evolving direction for Neo Prog generally and it continued. There is an argument that early neo is simply symph prog repackaged. With albums like the aforementioned ones, neo found its own voice. Don't deprive them of that!
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Posted By: Octopus II
Date Posted: July 07 2023 at 05:36
I have always really liked 'Marbles'. 
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Posted By: Mormegil
Date Posted: July 07 2023 at 05:39
It's Neo . . .
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Welcome to the middle of the film.
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Posted By: essexboyinwales
Date Posted: July 07 2023 at 06:57
It’s not Neo, but it IS overrated🤔😃
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Heaven is waiting but waiting is Hell
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Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: July 07 2023 at 06:59
Mellotron Storm wrote:
Awesoreno wrote:
siLLy puPPy wrote:
According to RYM tagging it's progressive rock mixed with alternative rock, post-Britpop and pop rock
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That seems about right to me. So by that logic, Crossover. |
Interesting and I did look up the RYM tags prior. So Marbles is Prog Rock yes but on this site we're more specific.
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Actually this site is more general. Multiple genre tagging is way more specific and i find RYM to be much more accurate at least for albums that have been voted on by a large number of individuals.
It's not neo because neo has a specific definition and this album doesn't meet those definitions.
Neo has a specific requirement for heavy use of keyboards and airy guitar techniques.
People get too hung up over these things. It's still prog just not neo
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https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
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Posted By: O666
Date Posted: July 07 2023 at 07:19
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Xover IMO. When I compare Marillion (post Fish) with Neo Prog bands like IQ , Arena , Pendragon ,... I cant find a solid Neo Prog album from them. Marbles is a good album and perhaps their "Proggest" album after Fish era BUT is it a pure Neo Prog? , I really doubt about it.
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Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: July 07 2023 at 07:26
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^ yeah you're right. I can't stand post-Fish Marillion so i never listen to any of those albums but now that i'm checking on RYM the ONLY post-Fish album that is labeled neo-prog is Season's End. Everything else is a mix of progressive pop, alternative rock, post-Britpop and just plain pop rock. I honestly don't get the hype about the Hogarth years but to each their own :)
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https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: July 07 2023 at 16:37
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It tends to be the Fish years that get hyped imo.
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Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: July 07 2023 at 18:45
siLLy puPPy wrote:
Mellotron Storm wrote:
Awesoreno wrote:
siLLy puPPy wrote:
According to RYM tagging it's progressive rock mixed with alternative rock, post-Britpop and pop rock
|
That seems about right to me. So by that logic, Crossover. |
Interesting and I did look up the RYM tags prior. So Marbles is Prog Rock yes but on this site we're more specific.
|
Actually this site is more general. Multiple genre tagging is way more specific and i find RYM to be much more accurate at least for albums that have been voted on by a large number of individuals.
It's not neo because neo has a specific definition and this album doesn't meet those definitions.
Neo has a specific requirement for heavy use of keyboards and airy guitar techniques.
People get too hung up over these things. It's still prog just not neo
|
No sorry I'm just curious by our sub-genres here where they fit in. And I don't feel hung up at all because I'm so into this stuff it's the exact opposite.
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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN
|
Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: July 07 2023 at 18:47
O666 wrote:
Xover IMO. When I compare Marillion (post Fish) with Neo Prog bands like IQ , Arena , Pendragon ,... I cant find a solid Neo Prog album from them. Marbles is a good album and perhaps their "Proggest" album after Fish era BUT is it a pure Neo Prog? , I really doubt about it. |
I'm going Crossover with this one and maybe a lot of this is personal opinion but it's fun.
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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN
|
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: July 07 2023 at 18:52
Mellotron Storm wrote:
siLLy puPPy wrote:
Mellotron Storm wrote:
Awesoreno wrote:
siLLy puPPy wrote:
According to RYM tagging it's progressive rock mixed with alternative rock, post-Britpop and pop rock
|
That seems about right to me. So by that logic, Crossover. |
Interesting and I did look up the RYM tags prior. So Marbles is Prog Rock yes but on this site we're more specific.
|
Actually this site is more general. Multiple genre tagging is way more specific and i find RYM to be much more accurate at least for albums that have been voted on by a large number of individuals.
It's not neo because neo has a specific definition and this album doesn't meet those definitions.
Neo has a specific requirement for heavy use of keyboards and airy guitar techniques.
People get too hung up over these things. It's still prog just not neo
|
No sorry I'm just curious by our sub-genres here where they fit in. And I don't feel hung up at all because I'm so into this stuff it's the exact opposite. |
I agree that those albums would be crossover if we could tag individual albums.
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https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
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Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: July 07 2023 at 19:49
siLLy puPPy wrote:
Mellotron Storm wrote:
siLLy puPPy wrote:
Mellotron Storm wrote:
Awesoreno wrote:
siLLy puPPy wrote:
According to RYM tagging it's progressive rock mixed with alternative rock, post-Britpop and pop rock
|
That seems about right to me. So by that logic, Crossover. |
Interesting and I did look up the RYM tags prior. So Marbles is Prog Rock yes but on this site we're more specific.
|
Actually this site is more general. Multiple genre tagging is way more specific and i find RYM to be much more accurate at least for albums that have been voted on by a large number of individuals.
It's not neo because neo has a specific definition and this album doesn't meet those definitions.
Neo has a specific requirement for heavy use of keyboards and airy guitar techniques.
People get too hung up over these things. It's still prog just not neo
|
No sorry I'm just curious by our sub-genres here where they fit in. And I don't feel hung up at all because I'm so into this stuff it's the exact opposite. |
I agree that those albums would be crossover if we could tag individual albums.
|
Awesome! I value your opinion in this and it justifies my feelings about it.
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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN
|
Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: July 07 2023 at 19:57
richardh wrote:
Neo Prog all day long. Seasons's End and Ever showed a different and evolving direction for Neo Prog generally and it continued. There is an argument that early neo is simply symph prog repackaged. With albums like the aforementioned ones, neo found its own voice. Don't deprive them of that! |
Stop confusing me.  Hey I always felt Season's End was different when compared to the rest of the Hogarth era because it was written with Fish before he was dumped I believe or at least with him in mind. So it's different but almost a stepping stone to what would follow. And man this is where I get confused because Peter's voice in IQ will always make me think Neo even though they went all heavy like Pendragon. Okay Arena always had that heavy side no? So maybe your right Neo just evolved.
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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN
|
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: July 08 2023 at 02:10
Mellotron Storm wrote:
richardh wrote:
Neo Prog all day long. Seasons's End and Ever showed a different and evolving direction for Neo Prog generally and it continued. There is an argument that early neo is simply symph prog repackaged. With albums like the aforementioned ones, neo found its own voice. Don't deprive them of that! |
Stop confusing me. Hey I always felt Season's End was different when compared to the rest of the Hogarth era because it was written with Fish before he was dumped I believe or at least with him in mind. So it's different but almost a stepping stone to what would follow. And man this is where I get confused because Peter's voice in IQ will always make me think Neo even though they went all heavy like Pendragon. Okay Arena always had that heavy side no? So maybe your right Neo just evolved. |
Pallas - Dreams Of Men is also another one to create confusion. Neo certainly got proper heavy!
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Posted By: O666
Date Posted: July 08 2023 at 07:41
siLLy puPPy wrote:
^ yeah you're right. I can't stand post-Fish Marillion so i never listen to any of those albums but now that i'm checking on RYM the ONLY post-Fish album that is labeled neo-prog is Season's End. Everything else is a mix of progressive pop, alternative rock, post-Britpop and just plain pop rock. I honestly don't get the hype about the Hogarth years but to each their own :)
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EXACTLY  |
Posted By: O666
Date Posted: July 08 2023 at 07:43
Mellotron Storm wrote:
O666 wrote:
Xover IMO. When I compare Marillion (post Fish) with Neo Prog bands like IQ , Arena , Pendragon ,... I cant find a solid Neo Prog album from them. Marbles is a good album and perhaps their "Proggest" album after Fish era BUT is it a pure Neo Prog? , I really doubt about it. |
I'm going Crossover with this one and maybe a lot of this is personal opinion but it's fun. |
Its always about fun!
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Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: July 08 2023 at 18:16
richardh wrote:
Mellotron Storm wrote:
richardh wrote:
Neo Prog all day long. Seasons's End and Ever showed a different and evolving direction for Neo Prog generally and it continued. There is an argument that early neo is simply symph prog repackaged. With albums like the aforementioned ones, neo found its own voice. Don't deprive them of that! |
Stop confusing me. Hey I always felt Season's End was different when compared to the rest of the Hogarth era because it was written with Fish before he was dumped I believe or at least with him in mind. So it's different but almost a stepping stone to what would follow. And man this is where I get confused because Peter's voice in IQ will always make me think Neo even though they went all heavy like Pendragon. Okay Arena always had that heavy side no? So maybe your right Neo just evolved. |
Pallas - Dreams Of Men is also another one to create confusion. Neo certainly got proper heavy! |
Even non-Neo bands like Porcupine Tree and Parallel Or 90 Degrees got seriously heavy in the early 00's and it just seemed like a lot of bands followed suit.
Citizen Cain is a band listed Symphonic here but I have them in Neo and maybe based more on the vocals than anything else.
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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN
|
Posted By: O666
Date Posted: July 09 2023 at 07:37
Mellotron Storm wrote:
richardh wrote:
Mellotron Storm wrote:
richardh wrote:
Neo Prog all day long. Seasons's End and Ever showed a different and evolving direction for Neo Prog generally and it continued. There is an argument that early neo is simply symph prog repackaged. With albums like the aforementioned ones, neo found its own voice. Don't deprive them of that! |
Stop confusing me. Hey I always felt Season's End was different when compared to the rest of the Hogarth era because it was written with Fish before he was dumped I believe or at least with him in mind. So it's different but almost a stepping stone to what would follow. And man this is where I get confused because Peter's voice in IQ will always make me think Neo even though they went all heavy like Pendragon. Okay Arena always had that heavy side no? So maybe your right Neo just evolved. |
Pallas - Dreams Of Men is also another one to create confusion. Neo certainly got proper heavy! |
Stewart Bell (Citizen Cain keyboardist) solo albums are really good albums and IMO both are exact Neo Prog.
Even non-Neo bands like Porcupine Tree and Parallel Or 90 Degrees got seriously heavy in the early 00's and it just seemed like a lot of bands followed suit.
Citizen Cain is a band listed Symphonic here but I have them in Neo and maybe based more on the vocals than anything else. |
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Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: July 09 2023 at 07:49
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I think this thread opens a real can of worms! Yes, I'd agree that 90's and noughties Marillion is nearer to Xover than Neo, but neither is it an entirely satisfying fit.
I remember years ago, Micky (Xover team) joking that PA's Xover dept had become a dumping ground for bands which everyone agreed were prog, but no-one could agree where to put them!!
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Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson
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Posted By: essexboyinwales
Date Posted: July 09 2023 at 08:44
Modern Marillion are just modern Marillion…..
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Heaven is waiting but waiting is Hell
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Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: July 09 2023 at 09:24
Mellotron Storm wrote:
richardh wrote:
Mellotron Storm wrote:
richardh wrote:
Neo Prog all day long. Seasons's End and Ever showed a different and evolving direction for Neo Prog generally and it continued. There is an argument that early neo is simply symph prog repackaged. With albums like the aforementioned ones, neo found its own voice. Don't deprive them of that! |
Stop confusing me. Hey I always felt Season's End was different when compared to the rest of the Hogarth era because it was written with Fish before he was dumped I believe or at least with him in mind. So it's different but almost a stepping stone to what would follow. And man this is where I get confused because Peter's voice in IQ will always make me think Neo even though they went all heavy like Pendragon. Okay Arena always had that heavy side no? So maybe your right Neo just evolved. |
Pallas - Dreams Of Men is also another one to create confusion. Neo certainly got proper heavy! |
Even non-Neo bands like Porcupine Tree and Parallel Or 90 Degrees got seriously heavy in the early 00's and it just seemed like a lot of bands followed suit.
Citizen Cain is a band listed Symphonic here but I have them in Neo and maybe based more on the vocals than anything else. |
In general terms, I'd say a band's genre is usually defined by their first album, which is just the way I like it, but in the case of Citizen Cain, I have them listed as Neo Symphonic Prog, which covers both bases. |
Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: July 09 2023 at 13:40
Jared wrote:
I think this thread opens a real can of worms! Yes, I'd agree that 90's and noughties Marillion is nearer to Xover than Neo, but neither is it an entirely satisfying fit.
I remember years ago, Micky (Xover team) joking that PA's Xover dept had become a dumping ground for bands which everyone agreed were prog, but no-one could agree where to put them!! |
It is an odd sub-genre here but I think it and Eclectic were added just to sort of divide up a massive pool of albums. All under Art Rock at one point?
I did appreciate the hours of listening Micky said he put in to figure out which bands fit Crossover. In theory bands who are 100% Prog but lean to the commercial side of music in certain ways.
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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN
|
Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: July 09 2023 at 14:15
Mellotron Storm wrote:
It is an odd sub-genre here but I think it and Eclectic were added just to sort of divide up a massive pool of albums. All under Art Rock at one point?
I did appreciate the hours of listening Micky said he put in to figure out which bands fit Crossover. In theory bands who are 100% Prog but lean to the commercial side of music in certain ways. |
Yes, I remember the days of the Art Rock split; as you say, I think it became too bloated and broad a church, didn't it? I know a tremendous amount of work went into dividing it into Eclectic & Xover as you say... and later Marillion best fits Xover than Neo; they've moved some way from those swirly synths!
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Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson
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Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: July 09 2023 at 14:35
Jared wrote:
Mellotron Storm wrote:
It is an odd sub-genre here but I think it and Eclectic were added just to sort of divide up a massive pool of albums. All under Art Rock at one point?
I did appreciate the hours of listening Micky said he put in to figure out which bands fit Crossover. In theory bands who are 100% Prog but lean to the commercial side of music in certain ways. |
Yes, I remember the days of the Art Rock split; as you say, I think it became too bloated and broad a church, didn't it? I know a tremendous amount of work went into dividing it into Eclectic & Xover as you say... and later Marillion best fits Xover than Neo; they've moved some way from those swirly synths! |
As always with huge respect to both of you, I would rather that Art Rock had stayed, because that is precisely what we referred to back in the day, and, in fact, it perfectly describes Marillion under Hogarth.
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
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Posted By: mathman0806
Date Posted: July 09 2023 at 15:26
So, while I am still considering whether I accept the following, I would say that I did think of the term of art rock to be more expansive than prog rock. The following is an answer generated by ChatGPT to the question of the difference between progressive rock and art rock.
Art rock and progressive rock are often used interchangeably to describe the same genre of music. However, there can be slight nuances in their usage.
Art rock is a broader term that encompasses a wide range of experimental and avant-garde rock music that incorporates elements of classical, jazz, and other genres. It emphasizes artistic and creative expression, often pushing the boundaries of traditional rock music.
Progressive rock, on the other hand, is a more specific subgenre of art rock. It refers to a particular style of rock music that emerged in the late 1960s and early 1970s. Progressive rock is characterized by its complex compositions, intricate instrumental arrangements, and lengthy song structures. It often features virtuosic musicianship, concept albums, and lyrical themes that explore philosophical and literary concepts.
While all progressive rock can be considered art rock, not all art rock falls under the category of progressive rock. Art rock can include a broader range of experimental and unconventional rock music that may not necessarily adhere to the characteristics of progressive rock.
In summary, art rock is a broader term encompassing experimental and avant-garde rock music, while progressive rock refers specifically to the complex and musically sophisticated style within the art rock genre. |
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Posted By: iluvmarillion
Date Posted: July 09 2023 at 23:54
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The band stopped being Neo Prog when H joined the band. Crossover to me.
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Posted By: LSDisease
Date Posted: July 10 2023 at 13:53
Most of all boring. My friend is a big fan of the album though. She says Ocean Clouds is the best Marillion song. Well not really but...
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"Du gehst zu Frauen? Vergiss die Peitsche nicht!"
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Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: July 10 2023 at 13:57
LSDisease wrote:
My friend is a big fan of the album though. She says Ocean Clouds is the best Marillion song. Well not really but... |
Definitely one of the best Marillion songs.  |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: July 10 2023 at 14:15
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NeoOverCrossProg.......
IDC, it's a brilliant album.
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Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: July 10 2023 at 20:46
lazland wrote:
Jared wrote:
Mellotron Storm wrote:
It is an odd sub-genre here but I think it and Eclectic were added just to sort of divide up a massive pool of albums. All under Art Rock at one point?
I did appreciate the hours of listening Micky said he put in to figure out which bands fit Crossover. In theory bands who are 100% Prog but lean to the commercial side of music in certain ways. |
Yes, I remember the days of the Art Rock split; as you say, I think it became too bloated and broad a church, didn't it? I know a tremendous amount of work went into dividing it into Eclectic & Xover as you say... and later Marillion best fits Xover than Neo; they've moved some way from those swirly synths! |
As always with huge respect to both of you, I would rather that Art Rock had stayed, because that is precisely what we referred to back in the day, and, in fact, it perfectly describes Marillion under Hogarth. |
I for one am a huge fan of the title Art Rock much more than Progressive Rock. It would have been cool to have kept that title instead of the Crossover word. And yes back in the day Art Rock was something I knew about and I used to associate it with Pink Floyd. Funny but the title Art Rock kept popping into my mind with that last Shamblemaths record a couple of years ago. Truly art for the ears.
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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: July 10 2023 at 22:56
Art is so entirely subjective its not real but just in people minds. Maybe if you try to break the mould but that rarely happens. There is KIng Crimson's debut album and then everything else 
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Posted By: O666
Date Posted: July 17 2023 at 06:56
richardh wrote:
Art is so entirely subjective its not real but just in people minds. Maybe if you try to break the mould but that rarely happens. There is KIng Crimson's debut album and then everything else |
Nice . And dont forget that Music is the only art that dont need EYEs
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