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Roger Waters - Dark Side of the Moon Redux 2023

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Topic: Roger Waters - Dark Side of the Moon Redux 2023
Posted By: Frets N Worries
Subject: Roger Waters - Dark Side of the Moon Redux 2023
Date Posted: July 21 2023 at 10:05
http://youtu.be/SUVmeYgo1Iw" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/SUVmeYgo1Iw

Alright Look, I'm sure the vast Majority of us here are Pink Floyd fans. So I'm curios, thoughts on this?


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'Cause it's only knock and know all, but I like it...

Working on a New Album, might be one huge track | https://atmosprog.bandcamp.com/album/atmos-i" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp



Replies:
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: July 21 2023 at 10:28
RW is doing exactly what he describes in Money, he's trying for a cash grab with this reissue. When he announced he was gonna re-record DSOtM and something about how he envisioned it being done I think almost everyone laughed and peed on themselves.
What he and the others created is timeless and now he says its not what he wanted.....the guy needs more medicine and a life. It's sad that he will be remembered for being a twit these past several years.


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Posted By: JD
Date Posted: July 21 2023 at 10:52
So he has Tom Waits singing for him now ??

A hard pass on this one thanks.


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Thank you for supporting independently produced music


Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: July 21 2023 at 11:39
From the new lyrics he sings (or talks), "petty bulk digested sh*t" and "breaks wind out loud." That describes this project. 



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i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag
that's a happy bag of lettuce
this car smells like cartilage
nothing beats a good video about fractions


Posted By: Steve Wyzard
Date Posted: July 21 2023 at 13:20
How many versions of DSotM do we need?


Posted By: Frets N Worries
Date Posted: July 21 2023 at 14:33
I have no clue why he decided to remake it, it'll never be as good. It will never come close. I'm interested to see what the fellow users of Prog Archives rate the album on October 6th


Posted By: zbida
Date Posted: July 22 2023 at 04:57
Haven't heard yet but I wonder if the lyrics aren't in Russian?


Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 22 2023 at 06:59
I kind of liked it Clap


Originally posted by edefakiel edefakiel wrote:

As bad and pointless as this is. Nothing Waters will ever do will be as bad and pointless as A Permanent Lapse of Reason or The Endless River or Metallic Spheres for that matter. 

Yes, not even Ça Ira is as unnecessary as those albums. 


There is a good point to this.

Even this REDUX (pretty good name for this minimalistic approach of a classic) is better than anything Gilmour has done since he took over Floyd, beit with Wright & Mason or solo.

-------------
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword


Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: July 22 2023 at 07:28
It kinda sux ass

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Ian

Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com

https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/


Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: July 22 2023 at 07:43
Roger doing a Leonard Cohen bit on a monotonously slow "Money" sounds like bad karaoke at a wannabe-villains bar. I half expected Dr. Evil and Gru from "The Minions" to join in on backing vocals. Actually, that would have been funnier at least.

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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...


Posted By: Stressed Cheese
Date Posted: July 22 2023 at 08:42
This somehow isn't as bad as I thought it would be, but it's still bad. He's doing something original (going off this one track at least) instead of just re-recording it with more lyrics, and that's kind of the best-case scenario I guess.

But this whole project rubs me completely the wrong way. First of all, people enjoy DSOTM not just because of the "message", but because of the music, and part of that is what other musicians (incl. Clare Torry) brought to the table. This redux album is supposed to have more spoken words and more downbeat instrumentation, but knowing Roger's track record since The Wall, that's a recipe for disaster. Roger seems to think the message is all that matters.

Second, what's the point in adding lyrics to a song whose message was already as clear as day? Roger claims that the message/point of DSOTM hasn't stuck around or needs a refresher, but what does adding a bunch of cartoonish poetry to one of the most obvious songs of all time, message-wise, do? Why drive home the point of the song by making it musically even more obvious?

Lastly, from a pure aural perspective, not taking into account the reasons why this exists in the first place, this is just not that good. Why even bother redoing an album that sounded as good as DSOTM did back in 1973? You're just setting yourself up for failure, and the mix and vocals here just sound bad. We have a frame of reference, we know how satisfying the return to the vocals sounds in the original because of the great instrumental part. Here, you recognize the skeleton of that arrangement underneath all the growling, but it doesn't work like this because the solos aren't there.

Ultimately, Roger pretends he's remaking it because "not enough people recognised what it's about, what it was I was saying then", but he's really just lying to himself. He's remaking it because he's a sour little b*****d who's changed a lot since 1973. The people well understand the point of DSOTM, and what makes it great. At the end of the day, he's just yet another aging rocker who doesn't realize he should've called it quits decades ago.


Posted By: Octopus II
Date Posted: July 22 2023 at 08:43
I will probably buy this. The curse of the collector!


Posted By: edefakiel
Date Posted: July 22 2023 at 08:47
As bad and pointless as this is. Nothing Waters will ever do will be as bad and pointless as A Momentary Lapse of Reason or The Endless River or Metallic Spheres for that matter. 

Yes, not even Ça Ira is as unnecessary as those albums. 


Posted By: Frets N Worries
Date Posted: July 22 2023 at 09:53
I've got a soft spot for the 80s version of a lot for these prog bands. I grew up listening to 80s rock. I shall NOT be purchasing Roger water's DSOTM


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'Cause it's only knock and know all, but I like it...

Working on a New Album, might be one huge track | https://atmosprog.bandcamp.com/album/atmos-i" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp


Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: July 22 2023 at 11:51
Originally posted by zbida zbida wrote:

Haven't heard yet but I wonder if the lyrics aren't in Russian?

It seems you are one of those who have totally misunderstood what Waters said about the Ukrainian war. Try listening directly to his words from youtube instead of the right-wing propaganda.

But I don't think I'll buy the album anyway.


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Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.
My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com


Posted By: essexboyinwales
Date Posted: July 22 2023 at 14:07
Originally posted by edefakiel edefakiel wrote:

As bad and pointless as this is. Nothing Waters will ever do will be as bad and pointless as A Momentary Lapse of Reason or The Endless River or Metallic Spheres for that matter. 

Yes, not even Ça Ira is as unnecessary as those albums. 




And yet, AMLOR is one of my favourite Floyd albums!

It takes all sorts🤓

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Heaven is waiting but waiting is Hell


Posted By: MortSahlFan
Date Posted: July 22 2023 at 14:18
It's better than I thought, but even if it wasn't, it's a bonus. No one is taking the original album away.

I find it humorous when I read fans saying sh*t like, "Can't Roger write a song without politics?" and forgetting he's done it since the 60s. Or "David isn't political" and not realizing DAVID invited Roger to the Palestinian Benefit/Charity, but David can't hold similar views because his son-in-law is Ukrainian.


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https://www.youtube.com/c/LoyalOpposition

https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List


Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: July 22 2023 at 14:34
Originally posted by Steve Wyzard Steve Wyzard wrote:

How many versions of DSotM do we need?
Exactly my thoughts. During the 70s you would buy your vinyl record, which would get forn out and you were forced yo buy a new one. Now, to make up for those lost sells, they just keep releasing new expanded, re-mastered, reissued versions of the same old stull, to keep you buying the same music.


Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 22 2023 at 14:37
I think that Roger made a very good argument about current political events both in his open letter to Putin and in his speech at the UN recently. Most of his critics that I've encountered seem to be unaware of what he is actually saying.

But all that aside, I heard the new Money interpretation and found it both interesting and a little boring. What really WOWed me in a big way were his re-recordings of classic songs during the pandemic, like this one. It's like a thousand times more impressive than the original:



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https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recent Listens tracked with AwesomeProg.com:


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: July 22 2023 at 18:49
Hi,

Have not heard it yet, but I have a couple thoughts on it.

Some of that material that he redid, is really good, and Mike EnRegalia posted one example and there are a couple of others. It is a bit more "updated" so it isn't so "dated", although I doubt many of us will sit and listen to Ronald Reagan and take it seriously enough. The actor was not known to be ... anything ... but an actor.

The scary thing is so many of us playing the "purist" and thinking that the original can not be improved, and we have seen many versions of Beatles tunes that were just as "good" if not better than the original, at least, they did not sound so out of time and place. 

This is the scariest part of "progressive music" and our thoughts about it ... so when someone takes a different step to show something, we think that person is out of it, or this or that. The fact that some of these are being "redone" (or were) is nice, and takes them out of a specific time and place and gives us a different look at the piece of music. 

It's just scary that we do not accept when the music is actually being more progressive, for its new/different interpretation, which I tend to think is a bit on the weird side of our ideas. We may not agree with the this or that, or RW's political views, but we ignore that those views helped put together DSOTM, Animals. WYWH and TW. 

It's like we, as "progressive" are into an IMAGE of something that is not there ... a graven image of some sort ... and the way everyone is reacting to it all, is scary and strange for me. Why can't the artist, redo his own piece differently and us taking our ideas off the pier into the raging ocean?


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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: UnderGround
Date Posted: July 23 2023 at 10:54
DSoTM was the last Pink Floyd album that wrote the songs by all members of Floyd(others less and others more) and the best one for me. So I think he shouldn't have re-recorded it...

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https://antonisadelfidis.bandcamp.com/album/zantea-chronicles-the-dream-dominator


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: July 23 2023 at 11:20
Originally posted by UnderGround UnderGround wrote:

DSoTM was the last Pink Floyd album that wrote the songs by all members of Floyd(others less and others more) and the best one for me. So I think he shouldn't have re-recorded it...

Hi,

Again, that's strange ... they own the dang thing and can do with it as they please. RW has every right to redo it any way he sees fit. We, however, do not have to buy it, and certainly don't need to be making comments that disregard the ownership of the music altogether.

Heck if Ian wants to redo some of his early stuff, why can't he? He owns it!

It just shows the wide gulf by people that really don't seem to understand, or appreciate what an artist and his work is all about. Let me tell you it's not about the so many senseless comments here ... you're not the artist or the owner of the music! Case closed. You simply don't have to buy it, and end the story!


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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: July 23 2023 at 12:02
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,

Have not heard it yet, but I have a couple thoughts on it.

Some of that material that he redid, is really good, and Mike EnRegalia posted one example and there are a couple of others. It is a bit more "updated" so it isn't so "dated", although I doubt many of us will sit and listen to Ronald Reagan and take it seriously enough. The actor was not known to be ... anything ... but an actor.

The scary thing is so many of us playing the "purist" and thinking that the original can not be improved, and we have seen many versions of Beatles tunes that were just as "good" if not better than the original, at least, they did not sound so out of time and place. 

This is the scariest part of "progressive music" and our thoughts about it ... so when someone takes a different step to show something, we think that person is out of it, or this or that. The fact that some of these are being "redone" (or were) is nice, and takes them out of a specific time and place and gives us a different look at the piece of music. 

It's just scary that we do not accept when the music is actually being more progressive, for its new/different interpretation, which I tend to think is a bit on the weird side of our ideas. We may not agree with the this or that, or RW's political views, but we ignore that those views helped put together DSOTM, Animals. WYWH and TW. 

It's like we, as "progressive" are into an IMAGE of something that is not there ... a graven image of some sort ... and the way everyone is reacting to it all, is scary and strange for me. Why can't the artist, redo his own piece differently and us taking our ideas off the pier into the raging ocean?
Nonsense. It's simply a hubristic ego trip for a pompous 80 year-old who lost his singing voice years ago. There's is nothing "progressive" about it. What, did Roger get tired of cashing in on his never ending The Wall tours he's been on for a couple decades, and needs a new more reliable funding source?  Oh, and none of the Beatles wasted time on re-doing Sgt. Peppers or Abbey Road in their entirety. They moved on. 

People doing covers of The Beatles honors the band, they are not meant to eradicate the past, as Waters has with songs like "Have a Cigar" which Roy Harper sang so brilliantly. Roger never forgave Roy for being able to sing the song better than he could. 


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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...


Posted By: mellotronwave
Date Posted: July 23 2023 at 12:02
useless rework imo


Posted By: Mormegil
Date Posted: July 23 2023 at 13:46
Meh, pass . . .

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Welcome to the middle of the film.


Posted By: fredyair
Date Posted: July 24 2023 at 19:07
Listened to the "new" Money and for me is enough to say it is a failed enterprise. He could not stop his ego and started blabbering in the middle of the song about his grievances with society and a bunch of nonsensical ideas unless he's giving out the music for free, which he is not, so instead the magnificent Gilmour solo we get the greatest magnificent your majesty Lord Waters telling us what he thinks. OK Rogers, you lost me.

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Long live Progresive music!


Posted By: Progman4160
Date Posted: July 24 2023 at 19:32
Total Crap!Thumbs Down


Posted By: Stressed Cheese
Date Posted: July 26 2023 at 04:36
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

and we have seen many versions of Beatles tunes that were just as "good" if not better than the original

No we haven't.


Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: July 26 2023 at 05:27
Dark side of the billionaire corporate rock star.


Posted By: hergest ridge
Date Posted: July 26 2023 at 16:07
Personally, I like this reinterpretation of Money.
I'm curious to hear an adaptation of this classic that we all know... and I can't wait.
He composed it with the others, it's his right.
After 50 years, I find it interesting to hear a reinterpretation by one of the members of the band at the time.


Posted By: barbera
Date Posted: July 26 2023 at 16:33
I must confess, remakes have never been a bother to me personally, but when it comes to TDSOTM I find myself treading a unique path. Money it's the one track that's never managed to win me over entirely and with this flat and monotonous essence, I can't help but wonder if it's perhaps not suitable for a low vocal performance. It seems to be filled with messages rather than the ethereal magic of music that resonates within the whole TDSOFM or at least the sonic concept. But I won't be too quick to judge. There's a curious twist awaiting as we consider how "Money" may fit into the grand tapestry of the album. As we wait for the rest of the pieces to fall into place, could it be that its purpose becomes more apparent? After all, artistic expression knows no boundaries (and the creative genius of Roger Waters certainly possesses the right to rewrite his own material as he sees fit) and who are we to challenge the vision of a mastermind?


Posted By: O666
Date Posted: July 27 2023 at 07:07
Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

Originally posted by zbida zbida wrote:

Haven't heard yet but I wonder if the lyrics aren't in Russian?

It seems you are one of those who have totally misunderstood what Waters said about the Ukrainian war. Try listening directly to his words from youtube instead of the right-wing propaganda.

But I don't think I'll buy the album anyway.
EXACTLY Clap


Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 27 2023 at 07:23
Originally posted by hergest ridge hergest ridge wrote:

Personally, I like this reinterpretation of Money.
I'm curious to hear an adaptation of this classic that we all know... and I can't wait.
He composed it with the others, it's his right.
After 50 years, I find it interesting to hear a reinterpretation by one of the members of the band at the time.

I have no problems with Money's rework, however I hope he doesn't do the same for the rest of the album the same way (same sonics)

On some launching video, there is a bit of Breathe, and it doesn't sound all that different of the new version Money. 

In that case (the whole album being that way), I'm out. 


-------------
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: July 27 2023 at 08:03
Originally posted by barbera barbera wrote:

I must confess, remakes have never been a bother to me personally, but when it comes to TDSOTM I find myself treading a unique path.
...

Hi,

I think we have to be careful here.

Classical music, for many years, was almost enjoyed depending on the conductor since many of them had different points of interpretation that made the music seem different. I never thought that it sounded "wrong" or "bad", just slightly different. 

Seeing the same piece, in rock music, done differently, is no big deal and I find it rather weird, maybe naive, that we take such a hard core thought about it ... you could even mention the Stokowski conducting, who was known to setup the orchestra differently simply to get the better effect he wanted on the recording ... again, it doesn't change the music, but it gives it a slightly different interpretation.

It's just bizarre, some of the folks here taking a "purist" point of view, knowing that in a few years they will be all dead, as we also will, and someone else will play it and it won't be the same thing ... it's different people in a different time!

Please let it go ... if you don't care for it, it's OK to say it, but don't trash some of the things that will be remembered for a very long time, because they were special ... and deserve the attention they are getting with updates and all that. Music, is not about you "like it" ... and Mozart and Beethoven and Beatles are still around even if you don't like it, and the versions and different recordings all have a lot of moments to offer, that might make us feel different about the piece of music ... THAT'S OK ... music does that and has done that for many years ... don't take that away from it, please.


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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: Stressed Cheese
Date Posted: July 27 2023 at 09:19
It's fine to re-do rock albums, it's fine for RW to remake DSOTM, but that doesn't mean we can't criticize the reasons he's doing it, criticize the music, criticize the very idea of remakes, or be skeptical of the end product. The way some people defend this redux, you'd think you're not allowed to criticize any album.


Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: July 27 2023 at 10:19
If all the album is sung this way, he can stick it up his @ss... LOL


Posted By: barbera
Date Posted: July 27 2023 at 16:34
Everyone has the right to express their critiques and I've had the opportunity to experience both Roger Waters live performances and Pink Floyd without Waters. Personally, I find Roger Waters' take on the old Pink Floyd material to be more captivating and creatively reimagined, whereas David Gilmour's versions often seem somewhat flat in comparison, sticking with the albums versions. Waters consistently surprises me with new and unexpected elements in his performances, whereas with Gilmour, I can anticipate how he'll interpret Pink Floyd's music. I'll reserve my final judgment until I hear the entire "redux" album, but as of now, I have a strong preference for the original version of Money.


Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 28 2023 at 01:58
One thing is for sure: we all know Waters is right about his recent DSOTM claim about the concept of it.
Can't see Gilmour and Wright (let alone Mason) write lyrics of that value.
Gilmour's silence on this issue is quite revealing.


-------------
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword


Posted By: Sem__
Date Posted: July 28 2023 at 11:13
Will never be as good as the original, but that's a given. Could be decent if you don't mind his politics, and he doesn't larp as Leonard Cohen for the whole thing. This choice of track does seem ironic, though...


Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: July 28 2023 at 14:45
I've read arguments in other places that this version is the "older" Roger Waters version of DSOTM, paying tribute to his younger days when the album was created. 
But on his website he talks about "...also to re-address the political and emotional message of the whole album.."
Maybe just me but I've never viewed the original with a political message. Roger is so infatuated with politics he may be trying to alter the meaning of the album today?? 


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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: July 28 2023 at 18:32
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

I've read arguments in other places that this version is the "older" Roger Waters version of DSOTM, paying tribute to his younger days when the album was created. 
But on his website he talks about "...also to re-address the political and emotional message of the whole album.."
...

Hi,

He did that re-addressing with The Wall ... in the tour here he had a sort of war memorial for VietNam ... the original The Wall was about WW2. The "updating was fine, although for me the story changed and all of a sudden the story of Pink was no longer important, and I felt that his taking on the War Memorial for the VietNam fallen folks was blowing bubbles some, and it felt kinda fake, certainly not in the sense that it lacked meaning, but I thought the context was kinda shaken up a bit.

On "BOFR" update.
The video of "Bravery Out of Range" is another story, in my book. "Amused to Death" was a magnificent album, which even included Jeff Beck beautifully done, and while I enjoyed it quite a bit, I did feel that some of the lyrics were topical and trying to show that he was "relevant" when it came to opinions, and of course, he got panned left and right for opening his mouth ... just shut up and play rock music! Which RW refuses to do, right?

The new version is actually nicer than the original, although I think he's in a time warp, and his using of Ronald Reagan in the video show how out of time he is, even though the music in it itself and the arrangement stands out really nice. The presentation itself, is a bit weird for me ... the 2 cute little girls doing the background vocals, are a distraction for what would be a serious song, so there is a sort of dichotomy here that seems more related to rock music and its presentation (sexy first!), than it does to the value of the wording and total meaning ... so it's sexy to be brave and out of range?

I don't think that RW realizes that the Internet has made things very confusing and that no one knows what is right or wrong, and neither does Roger for that matter, and that we're all caught in this media driven confusion, to the point that "lyrics" are junk, and meaningless. No one is even discussing the latest Ian's lyrics! The "words" have lost their touch! I think RW thought the song deserved a bit more attention than before, but using Reagan, he only dates himself, and shows that he is stuck in a time warp. No one remembers Reagan, or gives a damn! And all of a sudden his song becomes quite ... empty. I don't think he realizes that, obviously, or he would have done something else.

Either way we look at it, it's a sad shape of affairs. None of us listens, and on top of it I don't think many of us give a damn, other than posting a comment that is not anywhere near that idea, or the concept of what the song is about.




-------------
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: July 28 2023 at 20:24
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Either way we look at it, it's a sad shape of affairs. None of us listens, and on top of it I don't think many of us give a damn, other than posting a comment that is not anywhere near that idea, or the concept of what the song is about.

Here's an idea, speak for yourself and don't include your delusional impressions on what other people might think. State an opinion (briefly, please -- and in concise English, if at all possible) and leave out the gibbering nonsense regarding other posters.


-------------
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...


Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 29 2023 at 00:40
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

I've read arguments in other places that this version is the "older" Roger Waters version of DSOTM, paying tribute to his younger days when the album was created. 
But on his website he talks about "...also to re-address the political and emotional message of the whole album.."
Maybe just me but I've never viewed the original with a political message. Roger is so infatuated with politics he may be trying to alter the meaning of the album today?? 


TBH, I've always thought of DSOTM as a "political" album, given the amount of critics on our western society contained in the lyrics (Time, Money, U&T and Brain Damage).

It may not be a Communist Manifesto, but it certainly yells at "evil capitalism" in a few places .

Just like Animals & The Wall and TFC are "political albums" as well.


.


-------------
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword


Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 30 2023 at 15:07
Looks and sounds  like I will pass on this







-------------
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword


Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: July 30 2023 at 16:36
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Looks and sounds  like I will pass on this



Bloody hell! "Us and Them" is an even worse botch job than "Money." It's damn embarrassing. This is the point where it's evident that Waters' ego overran any common sense, and he's tumbling arse over teat down a hill in a desparate attempt to pretend Gilmour and Wright never existed. 


-------------
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...


Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: July 30 2023 at 16:39
How did the drummer stay awake?

-------------
Ian

Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com

https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/


Posted By: Progishness
Date Posted: July 31 2023 at 09:44
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

I've read arguments in other places that this version is the "older" Roger Waters version of DSOTM, paying tribute to his younger days when the album was created. 
But on his website he talks about "...also to re-address the political and emotional message of the whole album.."
Maybe just me but I've never viewed the original with a political message. Roger is so infatuated with politics he may be trying to alter the meaning of the album today?? 


The original DSOTM (in my own opinion) was about the trials of life, death and mental illness. The only nods to politics being their cynical paean to consumerism, i.e. 'Money', and musings on the futility of conflict, i.e. 'Us and Them'.

[I could write a PhD thesis on the concepts and meaning of DSOTM, but haven't got the time just now!]


-------------
"We're going to need a bigger swear jar."

Chloë Grace Moretz as Mindy McCready aka 'Hit Girl' in Kick-Ass 2


Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: August 05 2023 at 09:30
Pass... 


Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: August 05 2023 at 16:35
I'm all good with The Wall and Animals having a lot of political meanings and nods, but I've always taken DarkSide to be much more about mental illness and life in general. The song Money is heavily about greed and how money can make us greedy and only want material things, I don't consider that a political thing, anybody can be greedy. 

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Posted By: Frets N Worries
Date Posted: August 24 2023 at 13:45
Alright, 'Time' is out...

It's not as bad as 'Money' was, but Gilmour's best solo (in my opinion) was sorely missed

-------------

'Cause it's only knock and know all, but I like it...

Working on a New Album, might be one huge track | https://atmosprog.bandcamp.com/album/atmos-i" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp


Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 24 2023 at 14:00
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

I've read arguments in other places that this version is the "older" Roger Waters version of DSOTM, paying tribute to his younger days when the album was created. 
But on his website he talks about "...also to re-address the political and emotional message of the whole album.."
...

Hi,

He did that re-addressing with The Wall ... in the tour here he had a sort of war memorial for VietNam ... the original The Wall was about WW2. The "updating was fine, although for me the story changed and all of a sudden the story of Pink was no longer important, and I felt that his taking on the War Memorial for the VietNam fallen folks was blowing bubbles some, and it felt kinda fake, certainly not in the sense that it lacked meaning, but I thought the context was kinda shaken up a bit.

On "BOFR" update.
The video of "Bravery Out of Range" is another story, in my book. "Amused to Death" was a magnificent album, which even included Jeff Beck beautifully done, and while I enjoyed it quite a bit, I did feel that some of the lyrics were topical and trying to show that he was "relevant" when it came to opinions, and of course, he got panned left and right for opening his mouth ... just shut up and play rock music! Which RW refuses to do, right?

The new version is actually nicer than the original, although I think he's in a time warp, and his using of Ronald Reagan in the video show how out of time he is, even though the music in it itself and the arrangement stands out really nice. The presentation itself, is a bit weird for me ... the 2 cute little girls doing the background vocals, are a distraction for what would be a serious song, so there is a sort of dichotomy here that seems more related to rock music and its presentation (sexy first!), than it does to the value of the wording and total meaning ... so it's sexy to be brave and out of range?

I don't think that RW realizes that the Internet has made things very confusing and that no one knows what is right or wrong, and neither does Roger for that matter, and that we're all caught in this media driven confusion, to the point that "lyrics" are junk, and meaningless. No one is even discussing the latest Ian's lyrics! The "words" have lost their touch! I think RW thought the song deserved a bit more attention than before, but using Reagan, he only dates himself, and shows that he is stuck in a time warp. No one remembers Reagan, or gives a damn! And all of a sudden his song becomes quite ... empty. I don't think he realizes that, obviously, or he would have done something else.

Either way we look at it, it's a sad shape of affairs. None of us listens, and on top of it I don't think many of us give a damn, other than posting a comment that is not anywhere near that idea, or the concept of what the song is about.



I think it was a really good idea not to insert current politicians in what is and should remain a timeless song about corrupt leaders. If you think that Roger is unaware of the current political landscape, you haven't been paying attention. As for Lucius - sure, insult the "little girls". Way to go, old man.


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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 24 2023 at 14:01
Originally posted by Frets N Worries Frets N Worries wrote:

Alright, 'Time' is out...

It's not as bad as 'Money' was, but Gilmour's best solo (in my opinion) was sorely missed

It's amazing how many "best solos" Gilmour has up his sleeve ;-) 


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Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: August 25 2023 at 15:23

profanation


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                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond


Posted By: suitkees
Date Posted: August 26 2023 at 03:47
^ The original work is not destroyed, so it is not a profanation. I would say on the contrary: the original work only gets better with this new horrible interpretation of it...


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The razamataz is a pain in the bum


Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: August 26 2023 at 05:12
Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

^ The original work is not destroyed, so it is not a profanation. I would say on the contrary: the original work only gets better with this new horrible interpretation of it...

I see your point Big smile , but I'm afraid if to listen some times to this "new" work, it might be difficult to listen to the original in the same undisturbed way like before.


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                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond


Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: August 26 2023 at 06:05
It's given me a greater appreciation of the original

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Ian

Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com

https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: August 26 2023 at 06:17
Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

^ The original work is not destroyed, so it is not a profanation. I would say on the contrary: the original work only gets better with this new horrible interpretation of it...

Hi,

Sadly, I'm not sure this makes much sense to my mind ... it's like saying that Beethoven's 5th sounds better than the eventual copies hundreds of years later ... I really think we are not being true to the changes in time and how much things change in between. 

I don't think RW's recent redo is anything, but a new interpretation of an old story, or movie ... heck, we go for Hollywood redo's all the time ... why not rock music?

I imagine that the "music timeline" is kind of forgotten and looked at as some sort of a sacred cow, and in the end, it's just another song ... and a new interpretation is fine ... why should it sound the same? I sincerely doubt that the Stravinsky originals were as good as the ones done in the 60's by Bernstein and many others ... I really find some of the comments here weird, and in many ways, it's like we do not accept the fact that time has moved on many years ... and things are not the same anymore ... but many listeners here want the "same" again ... that is soooooooo pop music oriented in my book and a lot less to be mandated as "progressive music".


-------------
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: August 26 2023 at 21:03
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Sadly, I'm not sure this makes much sense to my mind ... it's like saying that Beethoven's 5th sounds better that the eventual copies hundreds of years later ... I really think we are not being true to the changes in time and how much things change in between.
No, what makes no sense is you referring to Beethoven's 5th completely out of context. Beethoven, even as crotchety as he was in old age, didn't rewrite the 5th into a slow, depressingly bleating Death March because he felt unloved, irrelevant, and he was not getting enough admiration for his former composition.

That is a dead-on comparison, Chachi.

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

I don't think RW's recent redo is anything, but a new interpretation of an old story, or movie ... heck, we go for Hollywood redo's all the time ... why not rock music?

Generally speaking, remakes are trash. Have been for decades in Hollywood. They are cash grabs because producers have run out of ideas. Like Waters, in this case.

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

I imagine that the "music timeline" is kind of forgotten and looked at as some sort of a sacred cow, and in the end, it's just another song ... and a new interpretation is fine ... why should it sound the same? I sincerely doubt that the Stravinsky originals were as good as the ones done in the 60's by Bernstein and many others ... I really find some of the comments here weird, and in many ways, it's like we do not accept the fact that time has moved on many years ... and things are not the same anymore ... but many listeners here want the "same" again ... that is soooooooo pop music oriented in my book and a lot less to be mandated as "progressive music".

Again, your lack of context is stultifyingly redundant and without merit. First, and most importantly to the context you utterly lack, Stravinsky didn't completely rewrite The Rite of Spring and mumble his way through the remake (renamed, I guess, The Funeral Rite of Winter). Stravinsky conducted the piece himself on numerous occasions, and didn't alter it as a bitter old man. 

Also, Bernstein knew Stravinsky on a personal level, and he was in the audience when Bernstein conducted The Rite of Spring. I think it's safe to say Bernstein didn't transmogrify the composition into something alien to the original. In fact, this excerpt from the NY Times says it all:

During the ovation, Stravinsky, who was seated at the front of the first tier, stood up, smiled and gestured his thanks to Bernstein and the orchestra musicians. 




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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...


Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 27 2023 at 02:00
^ wow, do you have a bone to pick with RW. Maybe you should find a way to move on.

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Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: August 27 2023 at 06:29
^ Instead of picking over the bones of past endeavors, maybe Roger could find a way to "move on".


Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 27 2023 at 13:17
^ Isn't it his choice to make? Artists should be free to decide what to create, and listeners are free to decide what they want to listen to and whether they like it. Things go bad when listeners try to dictate what artists do, or when artists start to expect their fans to like what they do simply because they are who they are.

I'll listen to the full Redux album when it comes out. I don't expect to give it a high rating based on what I've heard, but I would never get angry at RW for having recorded it. Why should I even consider telling RW to "move on" ... in what direction? Only he can decide, and if he wants to revisit DSOTM, I say let him.


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Posted By: Frets N Worries
Date Posted: August 27 2023 at 13:23
It seems this topic is more divisive than Tales From Topographic Oceans LOL

Ah, all this bickering has me Amused to Death 


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'Cause it's only knock and know all, but I like it...

Working on a New Album, might be one huge track | https://atmosprog.bandcamp.com/album/atmos-i" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp


Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 27 2023 at 13:27
^ The Pros and Cons of Roger Waters Clown

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Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: August 27 2023 at 14:29
I think the one thing that caught my attention about the Money single was the album cover. It looks somewhat similar to the album cover of my 2021 album Word Soup.

   

What's the deal, Roger? 


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i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag
that's a happy bag of lettuce
this car smells like cartilage
nothing beats a good video about fractions


Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: August 27 2023 at 14:37
^Did not know you are an artist. Will check it out.



Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: August 28 2023 at 04:42
^I consider myself more of a hobbyist. It's weird stuff. We're looking forward to the experimental olive oil from Gallifrey. 

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----------
i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag
that's a happy bag of lettuce
this car smells like cartilage
nothing beats a good video about fractions


Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 28 2023 at 04:47
Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

I think the one thing that caught my attention about the Money single was the album cover. It looks somewhat similar to the album cover of my 2021 album Word Soup.

   

What's the deal, Roger? 

Is it really a pachyderm though?


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Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: August 28 2023 at 07:28
^No, it is not a pachyderm. It's actually a picture of my dog's nose. The cover actually has nothing to do with the concept of the album either. That's kind of how I roll. I will forever be a moon covered with lemon zest and birth certificates.

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----------
i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag
that's a happy bag of lettuce
this car smells like cartilage
nothing beats a good video about fractions


Posted By: Hiram
Date Posted: August 28 2023 at 09:22
Has anyone yet made a joke of Roger being a grumpy old man with too much time and money on his hands? 


Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: August 28 2023 at 19:35
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Frets N Worries Frets N Worries wrote:

Alright, 'Time' is out...

It's not as bad as 'Money' was, but Gilmour's best solo (in my opinion) was sorely missed


It's amazing how many "best solos" Gilmour has up his sleeve ;-) 


Well, he deserves them all.


Posted By: Frets N Worries
Date Posted: August 28 2023 at 19:39
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Frets N Worries Frets N Worries wrote:

Alright, 'Time' is out...

It's not as bad as 'Money' was, but Gilmour's best solo (in my opinion) was sorely missed


It's amazing how many "best solos" Gilmour has up his sleeve ;-) 


Well, he deserves them all.

TRUEClap


-------------

'Cause it's only knock and know all, but I like it...

Working on a New Album, might be one huge track | https://atmosprog.bandcamp.com/album/atmos-i" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp


Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: August 28 2023 at 19:45
Now, with all these redux versions Waters has been releasing, which sort of reminds me of the way he did his last solo album, couldn't he do some sort of un-redux version of "Is this the Life we Really Want?" When I heard it, it felt like it was Pink Floyd, but without the instrumental beauty that Wright and Gilmour provided.


Posted By: Skymachine_119
Date Posted: August 29 2023 at 12:21
Clap


Posted By: jamesbaldwin
Date Posted: August 29 2023 at 14:14
Originally posted by hergest ridge hergest ridge wrote:

Personally, I like this reinterpretation of Money.
I'm curious to hear an adaptation of this classic that we all know... and I can't wait.
He composed it with the others, it's his right.
After 50 years, I find it interesting to hear a reinterpretation by one of the members of the band at the time.

I agree.


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"Happiness is real only when shared"


Posted By: Frets N Worries
Date Posted: August 29 2023 at 14:19
^Perhaps Gilmour should make HIS version of 'The Wall' 

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'Cause it's only knock and know all, but I like it...

Working on a New Album, might be one huge track | https://atmosprog.bandcamp.com/album/atmos-i" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp


Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 29 2023 at 14:23
^ Sure, why not? The chances for that happening are close to zero, but if it did, I’d check it out.

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https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recent Listens tracked with AwesomeProg.com:


Posted By: Frets N Worries
Date Posted: August 29 2023 at 14:38
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ Sure, why not? The chances for that happening are close to zero, but if it did, I’d check it out.

'The Wall', flawed as it is, remains my favorite Floyd album. Even so, as I mentioned, it is flawed so it'd be very interesting to hear Gilmour's version. (Hopefully some Instrumentals0


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'Cause it's only knock and know all, but I like it...

Working on a New Album, might be one huge track | https://atmosprog.bandcamp.com/album/atmos-i" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp


Posted By: Dapper~Blueberries
Date Posted: September 06 2023 at 15:04
Originally posted by Frets N Worries Frets N Worries wrote:

Alright Look, I'm sure the vast Majority of us here are Pink Floyd fans. So I'm curios, thoughts on this?

I am surprised he is even doing this in the first place after his controversies in 2022. What lousey man


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D~B


Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: September 06 2023 at 16:19
^ Lousey? How so?

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Posted By: Awesoreno
Date Posted: September 06 2023 at 23:37
Full of lice. I thought that was obvious.


Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: September 07 2023 at 00:30
Not a nice thing to say - something five year old kids might do. I wonder what has happened to society that some of us have so much anger and hatred bottled up inside ...

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Posted By: Frets N Worries
Date Posted: October 04 2023 at 07:02
http://ultimateclassicrock.com/roger-waters-the-dark-side-of-the-moon-redux-album-review/" rel="nofollow - https://ultimateclassicrock.com/roger-waters-the-dark-side-of-the-moon-redux-album-review/




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'Cause it's only knock and know all, but I like it...

Working on a New Album, might be one huge track | https://atmosprog.bandcamp.com/album/atmos-i" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp


Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: October 04 2023 at 07:28
^ I can wait another two days to listen to the album ... I don't like spoilers Smile

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Posted By: Frets N Worries
Date Posted: October 04 2023 at 07:46
Eh, i don't blame you, i think i'll listen to it ONCE

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'Cause it's only knock and know all, but I like it...

Working on a New Album, might be one huge track | https://atmosprog.bandcamp.com/album/atmos-i" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp


Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: October 04 2023 at 07:50
^ I'll listen to it at least once, then we'll see. Based on the songs to date, I doubt I'll play it much. I much prefer the lockdown sessions.

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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: October 04 2023 at 10:49
Hi,

This is such a weird set of conversations and discussions.

There are many versions of this and that in classical music and for many years, it was the Conductor's take on the music that made it special for many of us ... and no one went out and thought that one conductor was better than the other or their version of this or that was better or worse. Comparing Karajan to Bernstein is ridiculous, and you won't exactly know how to detail the differences in the music that make them special. (Hint!!! Neither will I!). But it will sound great anyway.

Here we are, almost 50 years later, and we're stuck on something that was done then, and no one can redo it differently ... well, I like that guy from Tool's (gosh ... not even sure now!) versions of the PF material ... that was really cool and enjoyable ... but to say that RW's versions of this or that are not right, is wrong. 

It's a new day, and time, and a different take that might give the piece of music some different emphasis ... but the sad side of it? We've already condemned everything to death and threw stones ... like we weren't sinners ourselves.

It's sad, because if you were an artist, you might want to do something different 50 years later ... heck, Bob Dylan does it, so why not Roger Waters?

It just shows how we have become completely disrespectful of artists, not that it did not happen in their time, but for something that has lasted at least that long and is still being appreciated, I think we should cut the artist some slack! Not the vitriol that is visible here. It's like folks are comparing apples to oranges ... !!!


-------------
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: Frets N Worries
Date Posted: October 04 2023 at 11:10
Hey, he can do whatever he wants, but we don't have to like it

-------------

'Cause it's only knock and know all, but I like it...

Working on a New Album, might be one huge track | https://atmosprog.bandcamp.com/album/atmos-i" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp


Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: October 04 2023 at 11:14
Originally posted by Frets N Worries Frets N Worries wrote:

Hey, he can do whatever he wants, but we don't have to like it

ClapThumbs UpBeer


-------------
Ian

Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com

https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/


Posted By: Spacelord
Date Posted: October 04 2023 at 11:27
Myself I prefer the original


Posted By: Progishness
Date Posted: October 05 2023 at 08:51
You cannot improve on a classic - tho this is a thoughtful re-imagining of the original. I find it OK but not great.


-------------
"We're going to need a bigger swear jar."

Chloë Grace Moretz as Mindy McCready aka 'Hit Girl' in Kick-Ass 2


Posted By: Frets N Worries
Date Posted: October 05 2023 at 08:59
It comes out tomorrow, doesn't it?

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'Cause it's only knock and know all, but I like it...

Working on a New Album, might be one huge track | https://atmosprog.bandcamp.com/album/atmos-i" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp


Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: October 06 2023 at 10:14
Another unfavorable review

https://thequietus.com/articles/33475-roger-waters-dark-side-of-the-moon-redux-review" rel="nofollow - https://thequietus.com/articles/33475-roger-waters-dark-side-of-the-moon-redux-review


-------------
Ian

Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com

https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/


Posted By: Octopus II
Date Posted: October 06 2023 at 11:31
I love Mary Fahl's interpretation of the album Smile

Mary Fahl - From The Dark Side of the Moon - Blu-ray 5.1 surround review -  Hi-Res Edition


Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: October 06 2023 at 13:10
^ I can't fail to fall for Mary Fahl with her October Project band. Thumbs Up



Posted By: Frets N Worries
Date Posted: October 06 2023 at 18:56
Wish me luck comrades Beer, I'm about to listen to it

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'Cause it's only knock and know all, but I like it...

Working on a New Album, might be one huge track | https://atmosprog.bandcamp.com/album/atmos-i" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp


Posted By: barbera
Date Posted: October 06 2023 at 19:22
I have tried to write a review, but for some reason the site won't let me publish it, so I stick with the star rating. 2 and half to 3. Musically disappointing.


Posted By: Frets N Worries
Date Posted: October 06 2023 at 19:32
Musically, I could see myself doing something like it (although maybe slightly more exciting, I don't want people falling asleep) and as it's been a busy week for me, this album isn't helping. I'm a huge fan of poetry (even named after a famous one) but please, make it good

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'Cause it's only knock and know all, but I like it...

Working on a New Album, might be one huge track | https://atmosprog.bandcamp.com/album/atmos-i" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp


Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: October 06 2023 at 19:40
Listened to The Flaming Lips with Henry Rollins version of DSOTM today, it's quite good.

-------------
Ian

Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com

https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/


Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: October 06 2023 at 21:38
OK, I just heard it in Spotify. It's not so terrible, but I don't expect I'll listen to it again, let alone buy it. I see absolutley no reason to listen to this new one instead of the original (or the live at Wembley, or even the PULSE version).


Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: October 07 2023 at 03:58
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

OK, I just heard it in Spotify. It's not so terrible, but I don't expect I'll listen to it again, let alone buy it. I see absolutley no reason to listen to this new one instead of the original (or the live at Wembley, or even the PULSE version).


I've not heard the whole thing yet - and certainly not in one shot (don't intend to either).

All I've heard are the bits published over the last three months (I guess that now amounts to 2/3 of the album) and will try to listen to the rest at least once, but I doubt I'll be listening a second time to anything or parts and even less buy it.

Waters had balls to do what he did , but ultimately, it's a failure.


-------------
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword



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