Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Music Lounge
Forum Description: General progressive music discussions
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=131571 Printed Date: July 26 2025 at 12:18 Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Harmony Codex Immersive Previews - Good or Bad?Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Subject: Harmony Codex Immersive Previews - Good or Bad?
Date Posted: September 01 2023 at 00:47
I'm getting increasingly annoyed over the hype around the immersive listening sessions of Steven Wilson's new album. Am I the only one? Should you just be happy for those who have been selected to participate? Or am I justified at getting a little angry at the smugness and "high-horsedness" of the Anointed?
I'm on the fence about this, but I'm leaning towards not liking the concept. I do not have Apple hardware, so I am never going to experience Spatial audio (ok, on my Macbook speakers, but not on headphones), let alone go to one of these locations and pay a premium price just for listening to the album once.
Replies: Posted By: Mormegil
Date Posted: September 01 2023 at 05:27
Go to a place and pay to listen to music?
Growing up, we called them "concerts" ;-)
Otherwise, hard pass. Seems like a money-grab. Just my 2¢.
------------- Welcome to the middle of the film.
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: September 01 2023 at 05:48
I would not do this. Pay to go and listen to an album? Why not buy it instead?
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: September 01 2023 at 05:49
AFAIK these preview listening sessions are free - but they're only available to a tiny minority of listeners, and essentially a marketing device. On a larger scale these are bound to cost a decent amount of money, probably comparable to a cinema ticket.
Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: September 01 2023 at 05:53
Steven Wilson is kind of like onions and an imaginary nose bag with an ear in it. I'd rather roll Brussels sprouts down a sliding board.
------------- ---------- i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions
Posted By: suitkees
Date Posted: September 01 2023 at 06:47
When reading your OP I first thought that your "sitting on the fence" is rather active and that this thread is only contributing to/amplifying the hype of this (if it is one). So, my first reaction would have been: I'll wait to listen to it when it's available and don't care much if it would be in two, six or twelve months...
Then I watched Jim Newstead's video and I understand a bit better what it is about and why you ask this question, although I wouldn't bring this into a good/bad dichotomy.
This "immersive listening" experience makes me think of the acousmatic "concerts" I've attended and they were generally very interesting experiences: not a live concert, but at best someone who "live" mixes the sounds through the dozens and dozens of loudspeakers that were set up in the concert room. These multi-channel sound/music experiences can be really good and are interesting because of the way the musician/artist uses the multi-dimensionality of the sound-stage.
What I understand is that Steven Wilson tries to create this kind of experience for his own music, which doesn't surprise me: he is very good in mixing (for others and in creating his own "original" music). I think the experience to attend to one of those "immersive" listening sessions would be great and I couldn't care less if it was part of a marketing scheme or part of an experiment to make an audience listen to music in those specific conditions. From SW's side, I don't think it is only a marketing thing: I think he is genuinely interested in exploring these acousmatic set-ups and possibilities of rendering sound and music (maybe even more than playing it live). That he found sponsors to do these kind of sessions shows that there is also an interest on the market side; probably more for the experimental side of it than for the commercial side of it, although it can move things forward on both sides.
It can only be good I think (for the experimentation, for the music, for SW, for the sponsors...), even if it is only the happy few who could attend. The main question that remains, for me - and Jim Newstead: will the album be interesting enough if/when it is listened to in a "simple" stereo set-up?
-------------
The razamataz is a pain in the bum
Posted By: miamiscot
Date Posted: September 01 2023 at 07:45
Hey, they told Jim to do an episode on his YouTube channel about the event. It was kinda the price of admission, so to speak.
------------- The Prog Corner
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: September 01 2023 at 08:18
Posted By: suitkees
Date Posted: September 01 2023 at 08:46
^ & ^^ Well, that's how it goes in the worlds of creative industries, isn't it? Press screenings for the film critics, free review copies for the music critics, access to general repetitions for the theatre critics... It has always been like that, and I hope it will continue to be like that.
Now, with the Internet generation, maybe some players feel obliged to be enthusiastic about this or that album/art-work/live rendition, because they're not real professionals and don't get paid by their journal/magazine and want to receive a next invitation or review copy... Maybe that's why Jim Newstead shows some enthusiasm, but I think he gives enough information for each and everyone of us to form an opinion (not about the music, because we don't hear anything of it). And I guess Scott would be the last to dismiss an enthusiastic review...
-------------
The razamataz is a pain in the bum
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: September 01 2023 at 10:41
suitkees wrote:
When reading your OP I first thought that your "sitting on the fence" is rather active and that this thread is only contributing to/amplifying the hype of this (if it is one). So, my first reaction would have been: I'll wait to listen to it when it's available and don't care much if it would be in two, six or twelve months...
Then I watched Jim Newstead's video and I understand a bit better what it is about and why you ask this question, although I wouldn't bring this into a good/bad dichotomy.
This "immersive listening" experience makes me think of the acousmatic "concerts" I've attended and they were generally very interesting experiences: not a live concert, but at best someone who "live" mixes the sounds through the dozens and dozens of loudspeakers that were set up in the concert room. These multi-channel sound/music experiences can be really good and are interesting because of the way the musician/artist uses the multi-dimensionality of the sound-stage.
What I understand is that Steven Wilson tries to create this kind of experience for his own music, which doesn't surprise me: he is very good in mixing (for others and in creating his own "original" music). I think the experience to attend to one of those "immersive" listening sessions would be great and I couldn't care less if it was part of a marketing scheme or part of an experiment to make an audience listen to music in those specific conditions. From SW's side, I don't think it is only a marketing thing: I think he is genuinely interested in exploring these acousmatic set-ups and possibilities of rendering sound and music (maybe even more than playing it live). That he found sponsors to do these kind of sessions shows that there is also an interest on the market side; probably more for the experimental side of it than for the commercial side of it, although it can move things forward on both sides.
It can only be good I think (for the experimentation, for the music, for SW, for the sponsors...), even if it is only the happy few who could attend. The main question that remains, for me - and Jim Newstead: will the album be interesting enough if/when it is listened to in a "simple" stereo set-up?
Very good thoughts. I think the OP is feeling like this is 100% a SW snobery kind of event, which it clearly is not. It's been done for decades, having listening events for new albums especially those that are created with an ear towards a very high fidelity perspective, which has always been a part of SW background.
In the audio world, he is considered an excellent mixing/remastering engineer.
This whole Atmos/Immersion thing is new, so Dolby has a vested interest in probably (I'm not sure) sponsoring these kinds of events. Mixing in Dolby Atmos is the new thing for home audio, it does require a pretty expensive investment with all the speakers required but it is focused on the home theater crowd, not really the 2-channel audio crowd. I'll never invest in such a system so does not matter to me but I would enjoy going to one of these events.
I have zero issue with how SW is marketing his new album with this new media format, it is a way to expose more people to his music, which is a main goal of all artists. Clearly marketing new music on websites or music forums like this is almost passé, so artists need to stay in front of change.
If it bothers you, why even click on the YouTube videos??
-------------
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: September 01 2023 at 12:31
Catcher10 wrote:
If it bothers you, why even click on the YouTube videos??
I didn't watch the video - I don't like spoilers. The way the videos and comments are phrased bothers me - some randomly selected people brag about their experience and scramble to tell the less fortunate all about the music they are (never) going to experience in that way.
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: September 01 2023 at 12:35
Catcher10 wrote:
I think the OP is feeling like this is 100% a SW snobery kind of event, which it clearly is not. It's been done for decades, having listening events for new albums especially those that are created with an ear towards a very high fidelity perspective, which has always been a part of SW background.
In the audio world, he is considered an excellent mixing/remastering engineer.
I actually don't mind these events themselves or SW doing them - that's all fine. It's the way some of the participants act which I find annoying. But who knows what I would do if I had been given the opportunity
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: September 01 2023 at 13:30
So I guess people will have an issue with people going to this one?? A charge of 80.00..
https://www.tesseractband.store/product/war-of-being-album-listening-event/" rel="nofollow - Another DolbyAtmos event
-------------
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: September 01 2023 at 13:43
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
Catcher10 wrote:
If it bothers you, why even click on the YouTube videos??
I didn't watch the video - I don't like spoilers. The way the videos and comments are phrased bothers me - some randomly selected people brag about their experience and scramble to tell the less fortunate all about the music they are (never) going to experience in that way.
Ok so then I don't understand your issue.......You can have the same attitude and gripe of people who have seen Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin or even the Beatles live in concert in the late 60s early 70s, and the droves of people who never did and never will.....
For £80 you can go experience the Tesseract album in DolbyAtmos.........
-------------
Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: September 01 2023 at 14:23
suitkees wrote:
The main question that remains, for me - and Jim Newstead: will the album be interesting enough if/when it is listened to in a "simple" stereo set-up?
Yep. As Jim said in the video the set-up cost about 500 million pounds and Steven had a special mix for the event with 24 sub-woofers placed in an oval around the listeners. How many additional speakers used, was not mentioned. Those invited were Nick Beggs, John Mitchell... an elite group. I wasn't invited. It appears Steven is preferring mixing and listening in surround sound more than stereo. Don't tell the vinyl folk.
I'll stream it when it's released. However, it won't sound like these immersive sessions. My ear buds cost less than $100. I'm wondering if he did a bud mix.
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: September 01 2023 at 15:01
Catcher10 wrote:
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
Catcher10 wrote:
If it bothers you, why even click on the YouTube videos??
I didn't watch the video - I don't like spoilers. The way the videos and comments are phrased bothers me - some randomly selected people brag about their experience and scramble to tell the less fortunate all about the music they are (never) going to experience in that way.
Ok so then I don't understand your issue.......You can have the same attitude and gripe of people who have seen Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin or even the Beatles live in concert in the late 60s early 70s, and the droves of people who never did and never will.....
Maybe you have a point there - I don't know why this bugs me more than it probably should.
Catcher10 wrote:
For £80 you can go experience the Tesseract album in DolbyAtmos.........
Posted By: terramystic
Date Posted: September 02 2023 at 04:21
This sonic experiment reminds me of Varese's Electronic Poem in the Philips Pavilion at the Expo 58.
Posted By: Jackal3000
Date Posted: September 02 2023 at 22:19
Catcher10 wrote:
Clearly marketing new music on websites or music forums like this is almost passé, so artists need to stay in front of change.
It wasn't passé during COVID. Just sayin' - I'm not even sure if that means anything. But Wilson was doing loads of interviews on YouTube then. If these immersive listenings require Apple equipment, does Apple know Wilson used to smash Ipods?
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: September 03 2023 at 01:37
“Spatial audio” on Apple devices is AFAIK just a new version of the simulation of 3D-sound with two speakers. I don’t think there’s a technical reason for it only working on Apple hardware - it’s just a licensing/marketing/business-model thing. Pretty much like Dolby have always done, starting with audio cassettes.
Posted By: cemego
Date Posted: September 04 2023 at 22:43
I dont know who the official "prog king of hype" is right now. It seems to be competition between Peter Gabriel and Steve Wilson. Of course Steve Wilson has sort of been parodying or exploiting the marketing of music since his last release (sort of having an exploitational laugh at the whole thing). It is/was amusing. He's clearly annoyed with the music business (no shock there). Now Peter Gabriel, his slow walk to release his album is just reached a level where I nearly don't care anymore. It's just out of control. RELEASE IT ALREADY.
In summary though, I think all the hype about HC is manufactured on purpose by Wilson because he's been projecting his annoyance of the music industry for some time now.
------------- listen to streaming stuff! no commercials!
http://wmom.servemp3.com:8000/listen.pls
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: September 05 2023 at 00:40
^ Yes, I've also been thinking along the same lines - it started when I heard the lyrics in Personal Shopper ("Deluxe edition box sets"). I've become increasingly annoyed with the process, and have said so on YouTube and Facebook (and here of course). I've also complained about fans and reviewers who readily jump on-board and participate in the hype machine.
Shouldn't surprise people who have known me for a long time that I'm not REALLY angry about any of this. My complaints are sincere, but I can fully acknowledge the irony of it all, and after all - it's only the umpteenth album by a prog celebrity multi-millionaire. I really like SW, but TBH there are MANY artists who have, are or will be releasing music in 2023 who are much less wealthy than SW and are much more deserving of promotion.