Gabriel’s solo career-Prog or not?
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Forum Name: Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge
Forum Description: Discuss bands and albums classified as Proto-Prog and Prog-Related
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13662
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Topic: Gabriel’s solo career-Prog or not?
Posted By: raindance
Subject: Gabriel’s solo career-Prog or not?
Date Posted: October 27 2005 at 17:34
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Without a doubt one of the most influential artists of the 20th century! But would you consider any of his solo albums prog? I would argue no! When I listen to his solo albums [which I love by the way], I hear many styles and influences, ie. pop, latin, new age ect but not prog IMHO! Your thought please! |
Replies:
Posted By: bluetailfly
Date Posted: October 27 2005 at 17:56
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Yeah, I think his post-Genesis music is a sub-genre of prog-metal. ------------- "The red polygon's only desire / is to get to the blue triangle." |
Posted By: memowakeman
Date Posted: October 27 2005 at 18:01
i like a lot Gabriel´s music, and yeah i consider it prog, maybe art rock, ..and yeah he has a lot of pop too.. but he is a prog artist ------------- Follow me on twitter @memowakeman |
bluetailfly wrote:
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: October 27 2005 at 18:02
which is exactly the reason why you shouldnt think too much... I like Gabriel as an Art Rock performer,I think he fits that to a tee. Love his soundtrack,Passion too.Progressive World Music? |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: October 27 2005 at 18:12
| Agreed. Art Rock. |
Posted By: Don Quito
Date Posted: October 27 2005 at 18:16
I agree with that and think that because of that, his work as a solo artist refers to art rock... It is way much different than Phil Collins solo project and don't think it compares to it. Now, if you are wondering weather Phil Collins' solo career could be prog, then I would said hell noooo... Just the fact that Gabriel's career as a solo artist has so many influences and styles (not just one), I would consider him as progressive... Besides, did you know that Bobby Fripp used to play on three consecutive albums since 1977...??? I didn't know that! ------------- KEEP THE PROMISE YOU MADE |
Posted By: goose
Date Posted: October 27 2005 at 18:18
Very inventive; no doubt about that. I'd agree with him being called "art rock", but not in a prog sense - although, to be honest, I never really associate the term art rock with prog anyway 
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Posted By: Gianthogweed
Date Posted: October 27 2005 at 22:54
| His new album sounds somewhat like NIN. Then again, I think some of Trent Reznor's albums belong here too. |
Posted By: greg lake
Date Posted: October 27 2005 at 23:03
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yes gabriel is a prog related music. the best disc of gabriel is SO ,this album is pop/progressive. ------------- 2112 |
Posted By: FragileDT
Date Posted: October 27 2005 at 23:05
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Gabriel's solo albums are incredible IMO. I feel that he is the best at conveying his emotions whether it be in Genesis or in his solo career. I don't think that you can really call the music "prog" but he is a prog artist, that brings a prog mindset to his own form of music. ------------- One likes to believe In the freedom of music But glittering prizes And endless Compromises Shatter the illusion Of integrity |
Posted By: The Mad Hatter
Date Posted: October 27 2005 at 23:18
I agree. On both points. Especially The Downward Spiral and The Fragile. I'm listening to Peter Gabriel '3' and it defintely has a progressive feel. But like everyone else has said, I don't think he can comfortably fit under prog rock. |
Posted By: FragileDT
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 00:00
I don't see this connection at all. Maybe I just haven't heard the right (or enough) NIN songs to compare. ------------- One likes to believe In the freedom of music But glittering prizes And endless Compromises Shatter the illusion Of integrity |
Posted By: Trotsky
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 00:02
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He's an arty feller, all right, but I must admit he's in male solo artiste section of my collection, while my Steve Hackett albums (and Rick Wakeman and Robert Wyatt for that matter) are in my prog section ... ------------- "Death to Utopia! Death to faith! Death to love! Death to hope?" thunders the 20th century. "Surrender, you pathetic dreamer.” "No" replies the unhumbled optimist "You are only the present." |
Posted By: FragileDT
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 00:04
He fits in conveniently right before my Genesis albums. I couldn't separate them. It just wouldn't seem right.  ------------- One likes to believe In the freedom of music But glittering prizes And endless Compromises Shatter the illusion Of integrity |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 00:23
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You all know I can't admire more Gabriel Genesis, but don't believe most of his work after Genesis (Maybe even after PG1 and 2) is Progressive. The only thing that matters for me in this case is that it's quality music (Except OVO) despite the genre, still love most of his work. Iván ------------- 
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Posted By: Cinema
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 01:14
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If you compare his solo efforts to those of Genesis while he was a member, then his solo material isn't prog in the least. And if you call his solo efforts prog related, it's only because of his prior association with Genesis. Let's face it, his solo stuff isn't prog at all. Not even close. |
Posted By: DallasBryan
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 02:07
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Of course Peter Gabriel's solo efforts are Progressive Rock, early on the 80's he was re-defining progressive rock mixing English Prog with Kosmiche Musik styles. His later efforts drifted more into the World Music scene. Peter Gabriel -3 was a landmark in Progressive Rock and should be recognized as such. Mid period Kraan could be a precursor to Gabriels efforts blending Kosmiche with English and American Prog styles. If PROG ROCK aint progressing it aint Progressive Rock. These artists are much more intellectually stimulating than almost any PORG METAL or NANO PROG! Yes, NIN early on was Progressive Rock but it had been relabeled as Industrial Pop or something else by the early 90's. Messing progressive sensibility with melodic industrial electronics. Rockers today wouldnt know progressive rock if it laid down in front of them. Depeche Mode in the early 90's again, european style eletronica with abstract or dark melodic lyrics. Much more progressive than rehashed, semi talented dream boys(with a few new studio tricks to flower it up) wishing to be their idols and producing weak imitations.  THE TERM PROGRESSIVE ROCK CANNOT AND SHOULD NOT BE DEFINED BY SOME EARLY 70'S PSYCHEDELIC ELECTRONIC ROCK MOVEMENT IN ENGLAND AND SOME PANTYWAIST TRIO FROM CANADA SINGING ABOUT FAIRY TALES. YOUR TRAPPIING YOUR BRAIN IN A GOVERNMENT/RECORD INDUSTRY NOOSE!  imo |
Posted By: Mategra
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 03:31
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Yes, besides the guitar Fripp played the banjo on "Excuse Me" (which also features Tony Levin on tuba). On Gabriel's second album Fripp is credited for production and for co-writing the track "Exposure". Later on Fripp used an alternative version of that track for his own solo album which also was entitled "Exposure". BTW, for me Peter Gabriel is a true progressive artist. |
Posted By: James Hill
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 03:51
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Not all Of Peters work is prog but is all great.I feel the early stuff produced by Robert Fripp is very prog but just likr Phill when he started thinking with his dick things went pop.
------------- symphonic james |
Posted By: Bilek
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 05:32
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PG seems to produce his greatest work when he names the albums incredibly short... My fave albums are Us and Up btw, he may not be deemed exactly as prog (at least n some cases), but he's the perfect example of Art-Rock as it is defined today. I say today, because (as Ivan told me) art-rock was used to refer to all kind of progressive music in the beginning, but in time its meaning has been limited to "a borderline between mainstream music (pop and hard rock, in this instance) and sophisticated rock". This is the definition of art-rock in all sources other than progarchives. For some reason, PA exalts ARt-Rock to a higher degree, substituting it with an obscure "Prog-Related" section... hence Peter Gabriel's inclusion in that section (and likewise, Supertramp, Styx, Jon Anderson etc...) and DallasBryan: you needen't bash Rush when trying to exalt Peter Gabriel. The two are incomparable IMHO (though both used to be in Art-Rock section before) and I love them both... ------------- Listen to Turkish psych/prog; you won't regret: Baris Manco,Erkin Koray,Cem Karaca,Mogollar,3 Hürel,Selda,Edip Akbayram,Fikret Kizilok,Ersen (and Dadaslar) (but stick with the '70's, and 'early 80's!) |
Posted By: rockandrail
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 06:08
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It started with progressive reminiscences, especially in the minimalist collaboration with Fripp. But since the release of the (awfull for me) "So", it was only MTV dance musak. With "Up", we have a slight come back to progressive intend but still not remarkable. ------------- Pierre R, the man who lost his signature |
Posted By: yargh
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 09:46
| Peter Gabriel's intent with breaking with Genesis was to stop making progressive rock. So his solo career is most definitely not a part of prog. "Art rock" isn't a real musical genre, but for the purposes of how it's described on this forum, I'd say around half of PG's solo albums roughly fall into this category. |
Posted By: eduardossc
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 09:52
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I don´t care if Gabriel´s music is prog or not. It is still very well crafted music. In contrast to your feelings towards recent albums, I find these albums better than previous. I sure like songs like "Intruder", "San jacinto", "here comes the flood" and "The rythm of the heat"...and some others I don´t remember right now. Still, there are way better and more mature and concrete ideas in recent albums by Gabriel. With a better and more solid sound, even from "SO". man ¡¡. "In your eyes" and "red rain" are fantastic. ¡¡... Well, that´s just my opinion. I think Phil Collins, despite everyones´ bad comments about him, made 4 great albums. ...Forget about being prog or not. "Face value" has many songs with great instrumentation with jazz influences, "In the air tonight" is an absolute classic and is full of originality. The second album still has at least some 4 creative and memorable songs, plus the pop songs here are fresh, full of conviction, energic and entertaining. "no jacket required" the third album is one of the best and better crafted pop albums in history. Remember, POP is not meant to be music for the brain, is music to entertain and present certain moods, this album is great at that. Making good pop like that is way more difficult than making lousy Prog like later Caravan´s, Later CAN´s, Epidarius, Many Magmas´, and many more in plain 70´s. (Yeah ¡¡, bring it on, I´m waiting for this site´s stubborn blind-love-for-prog-arguments). his 4th. album "But seriously" has great compositions and arrangements. It really is a well done album. Has it´s own personality and style, was made with conviction, is fresh and entertaining throughout. Does it need anything else to be good music?...to be prog?,...even if it is boring, uncompromised, repetitive, monotonuos, not original prog like the one by the bands mentioned above?. Don´t worry about Gabriel´s later music being prog or not. ...Making a comparison, Gabriel´s music is a full lenght Mozart concert compared to Waters´ "musicless" solo albums. Listen to "In your eyes" live. Man¡¡, that´s passion, conviction, joy, excitement ¡¡. I love that song played live, it just makes me cry listening to these musicians placing their heart out for the listeners. They can´t hide their joy for sharing that moment with each other. That´s what is important, not being prog just for the sake of being prog.
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Posted By: Phil
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 10:00
Yes well put! Too much danger of over-categorising things....at the end
of the day there's only good or bad music and Gabriel is excellent. |
Posted By: yargh
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 10:01
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I was with you until you brought up "In Your Eyes," But yeah -- "prog" is just a genre. It is not a "highter" form of music, and there can be music that is highly experimental and creative that is not considered part of prog. |
. I find that one to be really banal.Posted By: Genesisprog
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 10:18
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NO NO NO ------------- Frank Zappa,Pink Floyd,Yes,Genesis,Rush,King Crimson,Jethro Tull,E.L.P,Rick Wakeman -They have one similarity- I Love Them all ! |
Posted By: eduardossc
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 10:21
About "in your eyes", It´s a matter of taste I guess. The studio album could be liked or not. I donpt blame you. But I really recommend you to listen to it live from his last double live album (don´t remember the name). If it´s "In your eyes" it really doesn´t matter, it could even be another song...The real deal here is the passion, that implicit energy they put out. |
Posted By: proger
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 10:52
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I dont know if prog or not. but i love his music. ------------- ...live for tomorrow... |
Posted By: ProgPartin
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 11:41
| The way PG is able to put song together and change sound and direction from cd to cd is incredible. Prog or not, his music is still some of the best crafted I have ever heard. |
Posted By: Saviorts
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 12:44
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I think Peter Gabriel's solo work is progressive,
in the sense that the style of his music has certainly had changes and
taken influences from different types of music through the years. But is it PROG? Short answer: no. If I were to describe prog rock as a general term to someone, and mention a list of bands as examples, I wouldn't mention PG. Long answer: yes. Since the term "prog" has about as many alternative defenitions as the music itself has sub-genres, it could be comfortably called prog among other prog enthusiasts, and those enthusiasts would certainly know what you mean (even if they don't necessarily accept it). If you called it prog to a layman, they might get confused. Either way I'm glad solo PG is listed on this site, or else I may have never started listening to it and loving it.  Thanks to eduardossc for justifying some of Phil Collins work too, always a good thing to do on this site.  ------------- For the love of goldens. |
Posted By: hcnoer
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 13:49
| I don't look upon it is prog, but that doesn't mean i don't like it. I find it kinda interesting. |
Posted By: OldFatherThames
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 14:14
| I think it's not progressive but have some elements, but honestly, I absolutely don't care. I love many of his work, especially PG1, PG3, Up, progressive or not ! Call it what you want ! Don't waste your time, just listen and appreciated the talent of this master ! |
Posted By: NetsNJFan
Date Posted: October 28 2005 at 17:18
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If PG isn't art-rock I don't know what is. ------------- 
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Posted By: StyLaZyn
Date Posted: April 02 2007 at 12:17
I think his post Genesis material at best is Prog-Related. I give him the nod only because of his contribution during the Prog years and his first solo album, which was very creative. After that, his albums seemed more standard weird.  ------------- 
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Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: April 02 2007 at 16:59
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He's "prog" in MY house.
I don't care whether or not he is in yours -- I don't live there, or even know you.
(Not that it matters, as long as we enjoy his music -- you can call it prog, "prop" rock, "flibbertigibbet," or "Bob," for all the difference it makes.
"What's in a name? A rose by any other would smell as sweet...."
 Labels schmabels!
 'Tis damned good, and creative, in any case!  ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 18:17
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No nit not.
Nit no not.
Nit nit folly bololey. ------------- 
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Posted By: Floydian42
Date Posted: April 10 2007 at 00:04
Nothing Remarkable? My Dear Sir, we both have heard different albums. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: April 10 2007 at 00:24
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I love 'So' (and all his albums) as well, but remember that according to this site's current definition, Art Rockers, as wide-ranging as they may be, must 100% Prog. Last time this came up I felt Gabriel belonged in Art, but now I think ProgRelated is just about right. |
Posted By: Christine
Date Posted: April 12 2007 at 07:24
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Petey G. is definitely prog related. Even though the layers of composition that he puts into his music aren't as apparent as the ones defined in Genesis, they're still there & if you listen just as closely as you would to prog you notice a lot. Whenever I listen to "Up" I notice something different every time! ------------- catsfootironclaw |
Posted By: convocation
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 12:57
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Peter Gabriel is a progressive rock artist. For eample, nobody really faults Yes for having a hit on Fragile - Roundabout, refering to the good old days. Besides, good progressive rockers evolve and reinvent themselves continually; sometimes testing the water in other genres. His (PG) influences are eclectic, and he's always original. Those who don't accept Gabriel as continuing to be active in prog after departing Genesis simple have too rigid a definition of what "progressive" rock is all about. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 13:03
There may be a few commercial (though excellent) songs on his solo albums, but his overall output is definitely progressive. Anyway, I'm one of the few people who prefer Gabriel's solo career to what he did with Genesis... |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 14:08
| Yes, he IS. His music may be poppy, but outstanding, worldy, interesting, progresive rock/pop at that. Even in his definitely poppy album SO, he still manages to give his songs an special atmosphere, use special instrumentations, he makes the album sound proggier than it is. UP and MELT are prog. US (to comment on all 4 PG albums that I have), well, kind of sucks but it's still an "elegant" album to use a good adjective. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 14:28
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Now that Art Rock has split into three more easily managable sub-genres is there room for Peter Gabriel in Crossover Prog?
I think so, eventhough individual songs may not exactly fit the definition, the way the albums are constructed, the flow of songs, the instrumentation, unusual influences, lyrical structure and 'concepts' are prog. Also, as a musician he writes sublimely progressive music on those instrumental albums that occasionally get over looked when discussing his solo output (Birdy, Passion, Ovo, The Long Walk), some of which would almost qualify as Advant Prog. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 14:34
Yes, definitely - Micky and I have discussed that quite often, and he intends moving PG to Crossover ASAP. In fact, a few months ago (before I temporarily retired from the site), there was a poll about moving PG to Art Rock, but the results were unclear, and the idea was abandoned for the time being. However, now the time is ripe for him to be moved to a category which is much more suitable to his music, because of the features you have just highlighted. |
Posted By: memowakeman
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 23:54
Moving him to Crossover (if that is the most accurate prog genre for his music) would be great and a wise decision, i am agree with you guys  , also last week-end i had a PG`s DVD show with P.O.V., Secret World and Growing Up, damn all of them are outstanding, the Growing Up DVD will be played next week here in a local cinema, that will be great  ------------- Follow me on twitter @memowakeman |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 14 2007 at 21:20
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well this has been settled in the smoky back rooms of PA's... Peter Gabriel is being moved to Crossover.... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: September 14 2007 at 21:40
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'bout time. ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 14 2007 at 21:44
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we discussed Gabriel, along with some others some time ago.. . just had to wait till the time was right. I had a little birdie telling me that a category that would be right for him and others like him would be coming here. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |